[PrC] Its been a joke in my avatar for long enough....

[Pronounceable]

This is just what I've been thinking about. For some very long time, I've been trying to homebrew some magic system of combining specific "magic formulas" into a spell. I didn't think to limit it to 3 pieces, but it does seem a good way.

It wasn't your intention, but you've just helped me greatly. Thanks for that.


And the system is very good itself. Can there be some metawords (or fonts perhaps) that enhance the spells somewhat? Like *subscripted* sets all dice to 1, *superscripted* sets all dice to max, *bold* increases die type, *underlined* affecting the saves, etc?

[Shades of Gray]

Class skills? HD? Otherwise awesome class.

[Saeveo]

Looks pretty sweet, though the Words in the verb section should probably be verbs, rather than adjectives... and a noun. So Damaged becomes Damage and Illusion becomes Illudere, and so on. But that's really just fluff.

[CabbageTheif]

with this setup you dont need metawords. new feats fo the class may be something like

Shorthand where any message you write can be under 20 words and convey the meaning of 40 words.
or
Caligraphy expertise where when you cast your runes, because of the elaborate flow of the pen, your foes become dazzled along with any other effects of the spell.

but as for new words, i think that the metamagic feats could be turned into adjectives. you have a bunch of damage adjectives, but lets go with another route

NOUN self VERB teleport ADJECTIVE speedy= quickened teleportation spell

NOUN area VERB illusion ADJECTIVE flashy= just like the feat above, this makes the spell morre ellaborate.

you can also change words around. illusion in the adjective domain would cause any teleport, heal, damage, ect to not be real. NOUN enemy VERB damage ADJECTIVE illusionary means that it looks like you cast a damage spell on your friend, and your friend looks hurt; but in fact he is fine,, and during the confusion you two excape

just some thoughts

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

It's like an entirely new TYPE of magic, not just school. It actually sounds alot like Grammarye from the Inheritance series. (Eragon, Eldest, and the new one)

[Fizban]

Did you just correct my grammar?

Yes. And other people have noticed it too.

[Slartibartfast]

This is a cool class. Just a few things though: One, as more of a fluffy correction, languages fall under "skills" not "abilities" as one of the skills is even called Speak Languages granting bonus languages.

As a more important matter, your Area noun costs LESS then your Creature of Self nouns. It's the same price for a 50 foot radius or a single-target spell! Also, you might want to change the rules for finding the center of the Area noun effect unless you want to make up rules for how paper airplanes fly. It might also be wise to either make the Area noun cost WAY MORE than the others or give it a lessened effect. Just adding on to KBF's concern noted earlier, although less coherently.

[Saeveo]

but as for new words, i think that the metamagic feats could be turned into adjectives. you have a bunch of damage adjectives, but lets go with another route

NOUN self VERB teleport ADJECTIVE speedy= quickened teleportation spell

NOUN area VERB illusion ADJECTIVE flashy= just like the feat above, this makes the spell morre ellaborate.

you can also change words around. illusion in the adjective domain would cause any teleport, heal, damage, ect to not be real. NOUN enemy VERB damage ADJECTIVE illusionary means that it looks like you cast a damage spell on your friend, and your friend looks hurt; but in fact he is fine,, and during the confusion you two excape

just some thoughts

Or, keep the damage adjectives and use adverbs for metamagic. As in "Quickly" for Quickened spells, "Silently" for Silent spells and so on. Then there's no need to rework the damage adjectives.

This reminds me a little of the spell system from Rudora no Hihou, actually.

[BisectedBrioche]

I've added a version of the metamagic system using adverbs (I'd be grateful for any suggestions for more adverbs BTW). I've also added a hit dice, class skills and made a minimum character level of 10 as a requirement.

[Drager]

Maybe you could change th names of Hidden Code and Elaborated Code to make them more obvious maybe something like

Hidden Cipher and Elaborated Code?

As encoding something is making it easier to read, whereas things that have been made so only those with special knowledge can read them are ciphers... just an idea.

[BisectedBrioche]

Maybe you could change th names of Hidden Code and Elaborated Code to make them more obvious maybe something like

Hidden Cipher and Elaborated Code?

As encoding something is making it easier to read, whereas things that have been made so only those with special knowledge can read them are ciphers... just an idea.

Actually its a reference to the terms in sociology. Basically hidden code is colloquial language, elaborated code is the common dialect of a language.

[Fawsto]

One Word: Wow!

[TO_Incognito]

I do like this idea; the idea of a rune system in D&D is very cool. Still, I've skimmed the replies, and I haven't seen it mentioned yet: Those BaB and save progressions make me want to cry. Please just give the guy poor BaB, poor Fort, and good Ref and Will.

[Icewalker]

Wow, this is very very awesome. Albeit quite complex. I stopped a little ways into Neologisms


I really like it, especially the creativity available for the class. DM and player creating new words, combining them, etc.

[BisectedBrioche]

I do like this idea; the idea of a rune system in D&D is very cool. Still, I've skimmed the replies, and I haven't seen it mentioned yet: Those BaB and save progressions make me want to cry. Please just give the guy poor BaB, poor Fort, and good Ref and Will.

I thought I did?

[SensFan]

minimum character level of 10 as a requirement.

I dislike using level as a requirement. Perhaps find some other way of restricting it to high-level characters (ei: 13 ranks in a skill, several featsm etc...)

[Ceiling009]

Is there a way to... well, in essence, can you scribe scrolls for yourself or other linguamancers... like let's say you wrote down something like Ray Damage Frost... then added meta magic parts like Quickly (Quickened), Brilliantly (Dazes target also) things like that... also does the prepared paper ever go bad? Let's say, I take a week to make paper... and pretty much do nothing else, I make 14 a day, so at the end I get 98 sheets of paper at the end of the week? Cause I could feasibly see someone carrying around sheets of paper in a holster like things with at least 10 sheets in each...

[BisectedBrioche]

Is there a way to... well, in essence, can you scribe scrolls for yourself or other linguamancers... like let's say you wrote down something like Ray Damage Frost... then added meta magic parts like Quickly (Quickened), Brilliantly (Dazes target also) things like that... also does the prepared paper ever go bad? Let's say, I take a week to make paper... and pretty much do nothing else, I make 14 a day, so at the end I get 98 sheets of paper at the end of the week? Cause I could feasibly see someone carrying around sheets of paper in a holster like things with at least 10 sheets in each...

If a linguamancer "charges" it then it reverts back to normal paper the next day. He only gets 14 spells per day basically.

[TheEscapist]

I've gotta say, I REALLY like this class. Two things (well, two things for the creator, and one thing to one of the previous comments), though:

#1 - with the complicated nature of the linguamancer's spellcasting method, I think this would actually be better suited as a 20-level base class. I'm not sure I've ever seen a PrC that departs so drastically from the methods of any previous base class. PrCs seem designed to elaborate on the abilities of one or more base classes (the ones who can achieve the prereqs most easily) or reward the less likely base classes with a suite of another base class's modified abilities.

#2 - The term "sticks and stones" makes perfect sense, but the "big sticks and heavy stones" term sounds a bit silly. Going by the precedents set by other PrCs, why not just word the "sticks and stones" description as follows:

"A linguamancer is so well intertwined with words that they get a +1 to save against any spell with a verbal component. Any spell which has nothing but verbal components used against the linguamancer has a 25% chance of failing. For the purpose of this ability feats which remove the need to have certain components (e.g. Silent spell) are ignored. At 7th level, these bonuses improve to +2 to saves and a 50% chance of spell failure."

#3 - (Mostly to Jindra, but also to any other Japanese mysticism enthusiasts who might be reading) The paper charms you call "ninja tags" are actually associated with Chinese taoist mysticism and onmyodo, the Japanese system of mysticism that emerged from it. They're supposed to be used mostly as protective charms and good luck charms, though it's the protective aspect that's used most often in fiction - sealing demons and warding off areas, and to a lesser extent like an explosive runes-type spell. Now, granted, my knowledge of this subject is far from all-encompassing, but I figured you might be interested to know where anime like Naruto and Shaman King came up with these "charm tags." They are pretty cool, after all.

[TO_Incognito]

I thought I did?

Really? I still see a BaB progression and three save progressions that aren't correct on your Linguamancer chart when I refresh the first page . BaB should be +0, +1, +1, +2, +2, +3, +3, +4, +4, +5; good saves +2, +3, +3, +4, +4, +5, +5, +6, +6, +7; and poor save +0, +0, +1, +1, +1, +2, +2, +2, +3, +3. What'm I missing?

Keep up the creative juices!

[Jalor]

Excellent class. I don't really have any criticism here.

[Marek]

Do you realize what this is? This class is made of

Spoiler

Show

WIN (v.) -- fusion of O.E. winnan "struggle for, work at, strive, fight," and gewinnan "to gain or succeed by struggling, to win," both from P.Gmc. *wenwanan (cf. O.S. winnan, O.N. vinna, O.Fris. winna, Du. winnen "to gain, win," Dan. vinde "to win," O.H.G. winnan "to strive, struggle, fight," Ger. gewinnen "to gain, win," Goth. gawinnen "to suffer, toil"). Perhaps related to wish, or from PIE *van- "overcome, conquer." Sense of "to be victorious" is recorded from c.1300. The noun in O.E. meant "labor, strife, conflict;" modern sense of "a victory in a game or contest" is first attested 1862, from the verb. Breadwinner (see bread) preserves the sense of "toil" in O.E. winnan. Phrase you can't win them all (1954) first attested in Raymond Chandler

[jindra34]

Requesting more words. such as ones that add slashing peircing and force damage types. or multiple touch. or more effects. or meta-effect them.

[Slartibartfast]

I reiterate, since I seem to have been missed. The Area noun is way too cheap, and it is unclear how far one can throw a piece of paper. Also, does the spell still work if you make it into a paper airplane, and if so how does a paper airplane fly? As I said earlier, a 50 foot radius blast is the same cost as a single target attack.

Creature = 5
Self = 5
Area = 1 per 10 feet, minimum 20 feet (50 feet = 5 ten-foot blocks = 5)

So unless you want the linguamancers to start nuking castles (quite more literally than you would like), I advise you to make the cost of the Area noun much higher. I would suggest that it cost at least 1 point for every 5 feet in the radius, but that's optional. It at the very least needs a higher start cost, of say 7 or 10.

[jindra34]

I reiterate, since I seem to have been missed. The Area noun is way too cheap, and it is unclear how far one can throw a piece of paper. Also, does the spell still work if you make it into a paper airplane, and if so how does a paper airplane fly? As I said earlier, a 50 foot radius blast is the same cost as a single target attack.

Creature = 5
Self = 5
Area = 1 per 10 feet, minimum 20 feet (50 feet = 5 ten-foot blocks = 5)

So unless you want the linguamancers to start nuking castles (quite more literally than you would like), I advise you to make the cost of the Area noun much higher. I would suggest that it cost at least 1 point for every 5 feet in the radius, but that's optional. It at the very least needs a higher start cost, of say 7 or 10.

ARea multiplies the verb cost by one per 10 ft. the others are flat rate.

[BisectedBrioche]

I reiterate, since I seem to have been missed. The Area noun is way too cheap, and it is unclear how far one can throw a piece of paper. Also, does the spell still work if you make it into a paper airplane, and if so how does a paper airplane fly? As I said earlier, a 50 foot radius blast is the same cost as a single target attack.

Creature = 5
Self = 5
Area = 1 per 10 feet, minimum 20 feet (50 feet = 5 ten-foot blocks = 5)

So unless you want the linguamancers to start nuking castles (quite more literally than you would like), I advise you to make the cost of the Area noun much higher. I would suggest that it cost at least 1 point for every 5 feet in the radius, but that's optional. It at the very least needs a higher start cost, of say 7 or 10.

If you look the area noun acutally multiplies the overall cost. So it is much more expensive than the others.

[Ditto]

TO Incognito is correct. You need to modify those Save and BAB progressions. +5 Ref just for joining a PrC? Holy crap!

[BisectedBrioche]

Ah, I see the problem now, I've tweaked the saves and BAB.

[Drager]

Actually its a reference to the terms in sociology. Basically hidden code is colloquial language, elaborated code is the common dialect of a language.

Ahh you were talking in sociology. I prefer english :P.

JK I didn't realise they were sociological terms. As almost all the terms in sociology are backwards or upside down compared with science and maths (things I understand) I guess that makes sense. Cool.

[BisectedBrioche]

Ahh you were talking in sociology. I prefer english :P.

JK I didn't realise they were sociological terms. As almost all the terms in sociology are backwards or upside down compared with science and maths (things I understand) I guess that makes sense. Cool.

Oh the terms make sense. Its the attitudes I can't understand.