Where to go with the barbarian...

[evisiron]

I have just been spending some time working out a character in advance (nerd + free time is a terrible thing). I was going with a barbarian class.

Thanks to an excellent 4th July sale I have picked up a fair pile of new books (CA, CW, SS, ExP, AaE) and am working the character from a Large base creature (anthromorphic animal), and am working to a 'hit things really reeally hard' build. First of is a Monkey grip feat so I can wield a Huge greatsword with only a -2 penalty. First level in barbarian...and then I am not sure where to go from there.

Looking though the books I spotted a few prestige classes, but am not a huge fan of the ones I have seen. Frenzied Berserker seems to be the natural progression from barbarian, but it lacks any real control. And I know that if I was DM-ing a party with one of these, a kobold with a bow would be attacking every morning . Also, and I know this sounds odd, but I would prefer a more 'focused' character. The FB seems all over the place, with admittedly strong attacks, but I would prefer a single big heavy hit.

I also looked at the Hurler, and grinned thinking about the Throw Anything feat combined with Quick Draw and a quiver of Greatswords, but would rather avoid the novelty.

And just to mention, I hate clunky Med and Heavy armour for this character, hence the Barbarian, but may take 2 levels in fighter for feats. Also, barbarian is the preferred class for the race.

So:
1. What would you suggest as feat selection?
2. Do you know any better builds or weapons?
3. Could you suggest a prestige class?

[Rachel Lorelei]

Going from a Large to a Huge greatsword is only a 1d6 damage increase, 3.5 points on average. Monkey Grip isn't worth it--Power Attack gets you better returns (-2 AB for +4 damage), and you can *not* use Power Attack when you need to. And while you could take them both, Power Attacking for such a large amount that it exceeds your BAB is very rarely, if ever, a good idea.

Weapon Focus isn't a very good feat, but if you change Monkey Grip for Weapon Focus, you will have a +1 AB to Power Attack away, meaning you can have the same amount of damage at an AB 1 higher than if you'd taken Monkey Grip.

What books do you have access to? A particularily strong option for the Barbarian is to take the "Lion Totem" variant in the Complete Champion at level 1, which gets you the Pounce ability in exchange for Fast Movement. Esepcially nice with the Whirling Frenzy Rage-ability variant.

You could multiclass with Ranger (and maybe Fighter) and enter Horizon Walker, which is solid for a core character.

You could look into the Champion of Gwynharwyf prestige class from the Book of Exalted Deeds if you don't mind being very, very Good.

You could take Runescarred Berserker, a great prestige class, if you have access to the 3.0 "Unapproachable East" Forgotten Realms book.

[evisiron]

I have the following:

-PhB
-DMG
-Complete Adventurer
-Complete Warrior
-Arms and Equipment
-Expanded Psionics
-Savage Species

[Inyssius Tor]

Man, there are all kinds of ways you could go here. I'll second Rachel Lorelei in saying that Monkey grip is a megabad idea.

What is it that you want to do? With a naturally Large character (and access to the psionic power Expansion, no less), you could get some insane reach (how does threatening everything in a 60-foot radius sound?), but it seems like you're more interested in just hitting things as hard as you possibly can.

[CrazedGoblin]

Monkey grip is a megabad idea.

looks hilarious in NWN2 though, had my dwarf with a huge sheild and a great axe hehe

[PinkysBrain]

Monkeygrip is generally not worth it ... unless you are really big you get more out of putting that -2 to hit into powerattack.

The anthropomorphic giant squid has an impressive 8 tentacle attacks, only problem is that he can't breathe out of water. So the anthropomorphic baleen whale is probably the preferred option.

If with ExP you mean the expanded psionics handbook (usually abbreviated as XPH) then the warmind is a pretty good prestige class.

[evisiron]

I was considering 2 levels in psionic warrior to grab DR2/-...

*Goes to look up Expansion*

Hmm.. seems nice, but it only goes as far as 'large or larger' for additional reach without spending more points. I assume you are using a reach weapon or something?

Still, nice for the extra damage and Kickass factor!

[0oo0]

Personally, I have always been a fan of the Large and In Charge feat, basically allowing a large creature to keep people from getting in contact with him. It was originally in The Sword and Fist 3.0, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it since then in a book, though I'm not sure which.

[AtomicKitKat]

Well, you'll need Lords of Madness, but you can get Aberrant Blood+Inhuman Reach for an extra 5 feet of "normal" reach(which overall translates to +10' radius when wielding reach weapon) Alternatively, if you're going tentacular, you could pick up Deepspawn, and get 2 more tentacles, which makes for some slow-ass combat rounds.

[evisiron]

Yeah, thats the thing. As impressive as the many AoO's are, they dont make the game too fun, and tend to drag it down. Hence the big hitter idea. Hitting things hard is fun!

[AtomicKitKat]

Well, if you're going Savage Species anyway, might as well make sure you construct the weapon to have as many hand-grips as possible(I'd go with the scythe, for that ultra-sexay *4), and go to town with 0.5+0.5*hands multiplier of Strength modifier to damage.

To clarify:

1 hand=1*Str mod
2 hands=1.5*
3 hands=2*
.
.
.
10 hands=5.5*
etc.

[evisiron]

Well, I was planning to go with the Baleen Whale. I saw its broken stats, and laughed. But my subconscious started making backgrounds for it and character types, and personality traits and motivations, and now I cant run another character until this one is done.

However, the squid idea is very cool!

[Kizara]

You should seriously take a second look at Mr. FB. It is a POWERFULLY good PrC. You become the incarnation of attack power, with deathless frenzy, supreme power attack, supreme cleave and your frenzy abilities, you are neigh-unstoppable.

Take hexblade 3 to give you some nice magic resistances and to sure up your will save.

Take fighter 2 for 2 feats (which should be power attack and cleave).

Go bar 1, fight 2, hex 3, FB 10.
After dest/intim rage (FB pre-reqs) grap leap attack and shock trooper. :)

If you want a cool weapon, don't use monkey grip, just get EWP fullblade or mercurial sword. Spiked chain is off-flavour and doesn't have the same damage, but is always a great choice.

Your attacks look like this:
I know you are doing a non-standard race, but you didn't say what one, so I'll do this as-if you were human. (btw half-dragon makes an EXCELLENT barbarian)
Assuming lvl 10 character hitting AC 22 target and rolling a 10:
+2 keen fullblade
Belt of Giant str +4
18+2(level increase) + 4 belt + 4 rage + 6 frenzy = 34 (+12) str (wow?)
To hit = 12+10+2= +24, power attack 10 for +14.
3d6+18 (str) +2 (magic) + 30 (leap attack power attack)
1 more level and you get even more power attack returns. (with FB improved power attack)

As for unwanted frenzying, just have a cleric with calm emoitions and heal spells (for deathless frenzy). Sure, it's an extra pain in the ass, but considering the extreme power of the class, I think it's wroth it.

[Rachel Lorelei]

Frenzied Bersker is, IMO, lose-lose. You *will* frenzy and kill a party member, it's just a question of when.

Either your will saves are pumped up so you don't frenzy every time you nick yourself shaving... which means that when you DO frenzy your party can't control you and you're going to kill someone. (You're likely to kill'em if you win initiative, too.) If your will saves are low so your party can easily control you, you will frenzy every time you take damage and are going to win initiative and kill someone pretty quickly.

[Inyssius Tor]

Ooo! How about a Symbiotic Creature FB with the smaller creature being the cleric? Now, anthropomorphic animals are monstrous humanoids, which means that they don't qualify. However... agh, no.
Sandform (from Stormwrack, +2 LA) is a template that gives the construct type, but Incarnate Construct (Savage Species, -2 LA, removes the construct type) makes Large creatures into Giants. Is there any other template that could help?

EDIT: Huh. In addition to messing with your type, Sandform > Incarnate Construct gives you +4 to strength, -2 to dexterity, and +3 (+5 if not medium) to natural armor.

[Kizara]

It's a DC 20 will save to end a frenzy prematurely.

Raging gives +2 to will saves.

Hexblade 3 gives +3 to will saves.

FB 10 gives +3 tp will saves.

Get a cloak of resistance +3-5, and you can make DC 20 on a 10.

Furthermore, like I said, make sure you have a bard/cleric with calm emoitions prepared for the event you spoke of.

EDIT: Aside from dilution from multiclassing and such, there is no drawback for a FB to have a high will save. It makes it easier for you to not frenzy or to end it when needed, not harder.

[geek_2049]

I have found that barbarian and scout(complete adventurer) are synergistic.

[JellyPooga]

For big-hitty goodness I recommend the Greatpick...

...1d10 damage + x4 crit + two-handed = yum

Just add reach and better damage from Large size and a couple of crit improving feats/abilities and that's one BIG hit. Jsut persuade your DM that it should be a martial weapon and not an exotic one.

[Nebo_]

It's a DC 20 will save to end a frenzy prematurely.

Raging gives +2 to will saves.

Hexblade 3 gives +3 to will saves.

FB 10 gives +3 tp will saves.

Get a cloak of resistance +3-5, and you can make DC 20 on a 10.

Furthermore, like I said, make sure you have a bard/cleric with calm emoitions prepared for the event you spoke of.

EDIT: Aside from dilution from multiclassing and such, there is no drawback for a FB to have a high will save. It makes it easier for you to not frenzy or to end it when needed, not harder.

A 50% chance to attack party members is still really bad. Take a look at these builds Friendly Berserker

[Bassetking]

I have just been spending some time working out a character in advance (nerd + free time is a terrible thing). I was going with a barbarian class.

Thanks to an excellent 4th July sale I have picked up a fair pile of new books (CA, CW, SS, ExP, AaE) and am working the character from a Large base creature (anthromorphic animal), and am working to a 'hit things really reeally hard' build. First of is a Monkey grip feat so I can wield a Huge greatsword with only a -2 penalty. First level in barbarian...and then I am not sure where to go from there.

Looking though the books I spotted a few prestige classes, but am not a huge fan of the ones I have seen. Frenzied Berserker seems to be the natural progression from barbarian, but it lacks any real control. And I know that if I was DM-ing a party with one of these, a kobold with a bow would be attacking every morning . Also, and I know this sounds odd, but I would prefer a more 'focused' character. The FB seems all over the place, with admittedly strong attacks, but I would prefer a single big heavy hit.

I also looked at the Hurler, and grinned thinking about the Throw Anything feat combined with Quick Draw and a quiver of Greatswords, but would rather avoid the novelty.

And just to mention, I hate clunky Med and Heavy armour for this character, hence the Barbarian, but may take 2 levels in fighter for feats. Also, barbarian is the preferred class for the race.

So:
1. What would you suggest as feat selection?
2. Do you know any better builds or weapons?
3. Could you suggest a prestige class?

Evisiron, allow me to sell you a beautiful, shining toy.

Power Attack.

Roll those words around in your mouth. SAVOR the thick, Rich, juicy texture.

"But Basset," I can hear you saying "Power Attack reduces Hit! I want control, not trading accuracy for damage!"

Which is why you pick up Shock Trooper. Trade your AC to Damage, instead of your To Hit. Sure, it's going to hit you next round... IF it lives through this one.

Make your first level Lion Totem Barbarian. You'll lose Fast Movement. Boo Hoo, thirty feet instead of Forty. YOU GAIN POUNCE! You can now make a Full Attack at the end of a Charge! You can apply your Power Attack to your Full Attack! *Breathes Heavily*

Goodness, what happened there... Let me get the Mop, and the Disinfectant.

Once you achieve Power Attack and Shock Trooper, you want to focus on the all important Charge Multiplier. Two Hand your weapon, and consider using a Small Greataxe. It's a 1d10 weapon, has a x3 critical... Oh, look, it's a Dwarven Waraxe, without needing Exotic Weapons Prof. Back to our Charge Multiplier. Leap Attack, Orcish Race and Heedless Charge.

So, That's a Full Attack, with full BaB, with an added x3 Power Attack on each swing, Doubled. Yes. Heedless Charge "Doubles the Damage of your Charge". The Entirety of your damage dealt is doubled.

Hoo-rah.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

For a Barbarian, Extra Rage can be a very nice feat (while, as stated, Monkey Grip actually makes you worse). With my brief core-only barbarian stint, I was usually unsure whether I should use up my rage for a specific encounter. With Extra Rage, that isn't a problem anymore.

[Fawsto]

I don't believe that I am saying this... But if you want damage, go for Power attack, poor Monkey Grip has other hidden benefits, but for damaging, go to Power attack. Of course, if you are going to an sword and board type, use MG, but othewise, go Power attack.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

poor Monkey Grip has other hidden benefits

Benefits?

Wait, I've got one: looking like a cliché anime character.

[Darrin]

Thanks to an excellent 4th July sale I have picked up a fair pile of new books (CA, CW, SS, ExP, AaE) and am working the character from a Large base creature (anthromorphic animal), and am working to a 'hit things really reeally hard' build. First of is a Monkey grip feat so I can wield a Huge greatsword with only a -2 penalty. First level in barbarian...and then I am not sure where to go from there.

Never, under any circumstances, take Monkey Grip. It's just never worth it. You'll get infinitely better results with Power Attack. If you want really big weapons, consider taking EWP for a large-size Fullblade from Arms & Equipment guide (although check the errata on the Fullblade, they tweaked it I think but I forget what was wrong with it). That way you get your extra-big anime-style weapon and no wussy -2 "wrong size" penalty.

After that, you've got two "optimization" paths you can head towards. The easist and most well-known is picking up Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, and then maybe Leap Attack or some kind of pounce ability.

The other option is Improved Trip/Knockdown. Knockdown is available in the SRD if you don't have the book it's in... and the 3.5 version in the SRD doesn't have any 3.0-era errata that says it won't work with Improved Trip, so you can hit something for 10+ damage, trip them, and then get a free attack. They stand up, take your AoO, and then rinse+repeat.

1. What would you suggest as feat selection?
2. Do you know any better builds or weapons?
3. Could you suggest a prestige class?

Then again, you could just crib a few notes from this guy:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49522

[Gerrtt]

Two Hand your weapon, and consider using a Small Greataxe. It's a 1d10 weapon, has a x3 critical... Oh, look, it's a Dwarven Waraxe, without needing Exotic Weapons Prof.

If you are going to two-hand the dwarven waraxe you don't need exotic weapons proficiency anyways...just use the greataxe.

[Bassetking]

If you are going to two-hand the dwarven waraxe you don't need exotic weapons proficiency anyways...just use the greataxe.

Yes, but with a Medium Greataxe, you don't have the OPTION of using it one handed.

...Though, I won't lie, you caught me slipping into another piece of delicious cheese, there. One of the meanest TWF builds you can construct uses Small and Tiny Greataxes.

[Gerrtt]

No, it doesn't include the option to use it one-handed. But it does include the penalty for using weapons that aren't made for your size. -2 per size category to be precise. Not to mention dual-wielding penalties.

So if you want to go on dual wielding small and tiny greataxes with a -4/-8 respective penalty then be my guest, not to mention power attacking.

[The_Werebear]

Alright. If you are going to be a large creature, and want to focus on one massive hit.... find the Miniature's Handbook and go War Hulk. I swear it is somewhere on the Wizard's website, and should be in Crystal Keep at the very worst. Still, it is pure goodness if you are large size.

Let me give you a basic idea. You don't hit creatures. You aim for a series of squares where creatures are. You don't gain BaB, instead gaining +2 strength every level.

The only problem with it is that you don't get to think. Ever. It is all combat, no RP for Mr. Hulk.

[Falrin]

First: http://realmshelps.dandello.net/datafind/feats.shtml

A list of feats from official sources. Very handy Indead.

Now a Barbarian I came up with. Maybe you don't have all the books, but feats should be accesed by above link.

Dwarf.
Barbarian 3/ Fighter 2/ Battlerager 5/ DW 2

Barbarian to be, you know, a barbarian.
Fighter for the 2 feats. The 2 LvL Dip a lote of melee builds will have.
Battlerager (Races of Faerun) It gets you some feats & extra rages.
Deepwarden (races of Stone). You can find an online sample here. It gets you D12 HD, skills & Con to AC.


Feats:
1) Power Attack. (Damage = Power Attack)
3) Endurance. (Prereq. For 1) Battlerager, 2) Deepwarden, 3) Steadfast Determination)
4) Cleave. (Lots of Damage+Cleave= Extra attacks. Also prereq BR)
5) Improved Bull Rush. (Prereq Shock Trooper)
6) Shock Trooper. (PA = Not Hitting. PA+ Shock Trooper = Full PA & Hitting).
9) Leap attack. (PA: -1/+2 --> -1/+3)
12) Steadfast Determination. ( Con instead of Wis to WillSaves.)

Focus on Con. You get longer rage, higher AC & Higher Willsave.
A 20 Con dwarf gets +11 to Willsaves. (+2Vs Spells, +2from Rage, +7from Con in Rage)

Other Feats you might like:
Mad Foam Rager (delay bad thing till end next turn)
Reckless rage (+2 Str/+2 Con; -2 AC)
Power Lunge (*2 Normal Str mod, provoke AoO)
Improved Sunder
Combat Brute

[TheThan]

Ok I’ll try to come up with something using the sources you posted, ahh here’s one:

Power attack
Leap attack
Improved charge
Cleave
Great cleave


The basic idea is simple: charge in and leap attack them for ungodly amounts of damage (hopefully killing him), then simple cleave into the next guy (hopefully killing him), rinse and repeat. The great thing is you have two more feats to play around with. I suggest getting a copy of The Player’s handbook II (I’d recommend it to anyone who doesn’t have it), and take the leap of the heavens feat and short haft. That way you can do it with a reach weapon.
Or you could try this alternate build

Power attack
Dodge
Leap attack
Mobility
Spring attack
Dash

The idea is to leap attack into a group, then move, slipping out of the group and repeat. However in order to do both builds you’d need to be a fighter. One thing I would recommend is to drop the anthamorphic thing and go with either a human (bonus feat baby!) or half giant since they have Powerful Build (all the advantages of a large creature without the disadvantages).

The great thing is you can tweak these basic builds and find the version you want. Whether it be that raging ork barbarian someone posted above or something altogether different. Maybe you could splash a few levels of deverish and charge/leap attack into a deverish dance for a freaking cool effect. With barbarian you get +10 speed (and dash gives that and extra +5) so you have the speed to move a lot.


If you have to go the anthamorph route you could pick a four legged animal and pick up a keen lance and power critical and talk you Dm into letting you gain that x4 damage bonus on charges. Then apply the above for devastating results.