A Succubus with a Charisma of 40...?!

[Taurus]

Okay, at home, I'm currently running a campaign where the PCs are investigating a possible demon cult. They've been somewhat taken aback by a few of the things there. The cult expresses itself much like the Clergy of Sharess would, and are very focused on physical pleasure. Lead, oddly enough, by their high priestess, which is an aasimar. So far, they think that the higher ups are all good guys, and there's some evil priestesses around somewhere, which is cool for me... In reality, 9/10 people in there, are CE. The PCs have no divine caster (suckers!) so they don't really have a way of knowing this.

The thing is, one of the PCs, who's technically leading the others around with money, was seriously wronged by a particular succubus who, for eight years, kept him in a stupor of euphoria and crunched him for information. He didn't know this until a fortnight ago, on account of a Programmed Amnesia spell.

Simply put, he's out for revenge, and wants to find his fiend-blooded child and raise her properly. He's CG, but he's slipping into CN, and he's beginning to become rather apathetic to his orders from the Harpers...

Now, the Succubus that did this to him, is a servant to the demon lord/demigod of this cult, and she has instructed the mortals followers there to play dumb essentially, however the group is causing them problems, and they're going to kill them shortly by promising a... Err... Roll in the hay with a few of the girls to a few of the male PCs and split them up. Then a demon Teleports to them, and attacks.

The biggest problem, is how to properly portray and RP the freakin' succubus who has a charisma stat of 40. Any help with this? Feel free to comment on the story so far as well, if anyone has further ideas and the like, as these people do nothing I intend, and it's difficult to plot good ideas.

Thanks in advance!

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

Malcanthet has a Cha of 40. So maybe figure out how she may act.

[Kizara]

She is a god amounst mortals.

When she speaks it is as if the darkness itself has found a voice and projects itself through her in a single, perfectly clear note. Words of mortals to her are as the passing of sands upon a mountain, and are of as much consequence.

A single look of sensuality or seducation reduces another's (man or woman) mind to pure putty at wrost, and causes an instant and explosive orgasim of mind-blowing intensity at best.

She walks into the room and life, breath and spoken word instantly stop awaiting her voice. She commands and you find euphoria, perfection of purpose and an epifany of insight.

She touches you and your life transcends to a new meaning of pleasure and happiness.

Just some thoughts. :)

[Arbitrarity]

As we know, charisma represents presence and sense of self (or something like that). This creature is the epitome (almost) of such. Should be instantly noticable, extremely forceful, differentiate themselves from others, and should be able to manipulate people like putty (if not the PC's, at least the NPC's).

[Ceres]

She is a god amounst mortals.

When she speaks it is as if the darkness itself has found a voice and projects itself through her in a single, perfectly clear note. Words of mortals to her are as the passing of sands upon a mountain, and are of as much consequence.

A single look of sensuality or seducation reduces another's (man or woman) mind to pure putty at wrost, and causes an instant and explosive orgasim of mind-blowing intensity at best.

She walks into the room and life, breath and spoken word instantly stop awaiting her voice. She commands and you find euphoria, perfection of purpose and an epifany of insight.

She touches you and your life transcends to a new meaning of pleasure and happiness.

Just some thoughts. :)

Someone's a romantic

Still, that's (in my book) a pretty reasonable list of what someone of 50 cha could do. It's far, far beyond the reach of mortal men.

[UglyPanda]

How did this Succubus get a Charisma of 40? You should probably tone it down a little, as the DMG Succubus has a base Charisma of 26 with an ECL of 14. The CR is only 7 because it works best in 1-on-1 situations and CR is based off of 4 man parties. If it's a random massive stat while everything else is normal, it could either be a TPK or death for a NPC that they weren't supposed to be able to kill.
No disrespect, it's just that I had a DM I who had a tendency for arbitrarily high and low numbers that were pulled from thin air.

[Amiria]

She has probably class levels. Succubi have a +16 racial bonus to charisma, with an 16 as the starting stat, +2 from extra levels, and a +6 item you arrive at Cha 40. However, I agree that such a succubus should also have the the class levels to back up such powerful ability scores and items. Maybe she should also be a powerful bard or sorcerer, CR 18 at least.

[Arbitrarity]

Someone's a romantic

Still, that's (in my book) a pretty reasonable list of what someone of 50 cha could do. It's far, far beyond the reach of mortal men.

40 Cha is doable for mortals . Old Level 20 Mage-Blooded Star Elf, base 18 (+2 racial, +2 template (which is +0 LA), +5 tome, +5 levels, +2 age, +6 item), which is 40.

[Machete]

In the presence of 40 CHA you'd feel your independence and will slipping away, as this person's personality utterly possesses you.

[Demented]

Charisma isn't all romantic.
And in any case, the skill checks for that sort of thing are in the excess of DC 70+. Charisma 50 gives you a measly +20.

Charisma 20 might equate to a movie star. Charisma 25-35 might equate to a character in a movie/book. (If you've ever noticed, fictional characters are just plain more interesting than real individuals.) Charisma 40 is a step beyond that, perhaps the most interesting character you could ever meet without being comical or outlandish.

- If she asks for a glass of water, it will be the delight and pleasure of the nearest NPC (even a King) to get her one.
- Like the public persona of a dictator, she can get entire regions to bow to her despotic whims. Whatever she tells the public, they'll buy.
- Her legacy will be so famous that it will be mentioned constantly in internet forum debates well into the next century, to the point that someone named Godwin will make a law about it.
- Her appearance is more likely to be unique than pristine. She may have a mole, unusual hair color, abnormally large nose, or some other defining feature. She could be downright the ugliest thing this side of hell, so long as it means you can't take your eyes off her.

[Sir Jason]

You know how sense motive checks get bonuses to resist bluff if the bluff is outrageous? Well, whereas the bluff modifier affect the bluff check result, someone with a cha 40 would just make whatever she says SOUND reasonable.

EX: This rock I'm handing you is covered by an illusion. Its actually a priceless diamond. The illusion will wear off soon, but I have to leave quickly. I'll give you the good price of only 50,000 gp for it, but you have to take it or leave it now.

A person with charisma 15 saying this would give them the +20 on their sense motive check for such a ridiculous bluff. But when someone with cha 40 says it, it actually sound believeable, regardless of the bluffing skill involved, so the person would get no bonus to their sense motive check. This means that the Succubus could make NPC's easily believe the most ludicrous things about the PC's even against all logical refute. She could attack the king, then tell the guards 'they did it', and they'd believe her! Take advantage of this, but limit the ludicrousity, or the PC's will start to feel railroaded, and that's never good.

[Arbitrarity]

That's not really true, but it doesn't matter. There's enough of a bonus on a bluff check that no one can tell anyways (like +40?). Sorta like glibness.

[Rama_Lei]

You can always make her unkillable by giving her evil paladin levels. +15 to saves is always a good thing.

[Rachel Lorelei]

"...I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"

She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood... seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful.

(I love that passage. And it's pretty much exactly what you're looking for. For another terribly high-CHA character, although not quite to that extent and far more subtle, check out Gerald Tarrant from Black Sun Rising.)

[Anxe]

Put a picture of Carmen Electra in front of your face when you're talking as the Succubus and make a lewd suggestion in every single thing you say. Your players will love it.

[Sir Jason]

I like it! But make it a bigger picture, and more than just a face. This is a succubus people! Play some music in the backround too, and light some scented candles, if you're really devoted to this...

[Rachel Lorelei]

If you have a gaming group that doesn't shatter the mood with off-topic conversations, Monty Python referenses, and humor on a very regular basis, then setting the mood could very much be worthwhile.

[Kizara]

Someone's a romantic

Still, that's (in my book) a pretty reasonable list of what someone of 50 cha could do. It's far, far beyond the reach of mortal men.

I never can pass by a chance to describe over-the-top things with metaphors. :)

[Aquillion]

Let's see. 40 Charisma is a +15 modifier to any cha-related efforts. That's a lot, but... not quite as much as some people here have made it out to be. It requires several levels and maxxed skills backing it up to really be any use, and even then it's not so hot.

Remember, succubus is +6 LA. Assuming she maxxes all cha-dependant skills, she loses 6 points from each; and each of those points is worth 2 points of charisma. For practical purposes, in other words, when compared to a human with 18 cha who has also maxxed all cha-dependant skills... her advantage is a whopping +5. (Human has +6 from extra skills and +4 cha, to her +15 cha.) Nice, but not overwhelming.

All of this assumes no other diplomacy / charisma optimization. You can get absurd there, yes, but anyway...

The sense motive bonus for an absurd bluff is +20, say. With this cha modifier and maxxed bluff, she would have a chance at convincing someone of something absurd... but if they're of about her level, have reasonable wis, and have equally maxxed sense motive it wouldn't be a very good chance, since they'll have more Sense Motive than she has Bluff (she'd have a lower chance, say, than a bluff-maxxed human with 10 charisma trying to pass off a believable bluff... her charisma isn't enough to offset totally absurd things completely.)

Likewise, the DC to turn someone hostile to helpful is 50. Even with maxxed bluff at high levels, it would be a stretch for her. At ECL 10 (4 levels, 6 LA) she would have just over a 50-50 chance of talking a neutral crowd to friendly; it wouldn't be until almost level 20 that she could do it every time. Talking people into fanatic is probably outside her reach unless she's also very, very high level and has boosted diplomacy in other ways... and all this is without taking the -10 penalty for fast talking.

She's impressive, yes, and very good at manipulating crowds or the weak-minded... but so is anyone who has high (human) cha and maxxes the relevent skills. She should be described as stunning to look at, an overwhelming presence who fills the room, but anyone who is roughly on her level can say 'no' to her with, at most, a moment's hesitation.

If you want to show how impressive she is, though, have all the minions quiver at her feet and obey her every command, no matter how horrible. I mean, they all belong to her anyway... have her order one to commit suicide for a minor irritation, and have them do it. (She probably couldn't have really talked them to fanatic, but if it's just a nameless NPC, who cares?)

One really big thing: Don't tell the players what they think. That sucks. Some people don't mind, but a lot of people will get annoyed at being told that their characters are captivated by her beauty or her voice or whatever. Even terms like 'overwhelming presence' have to be used sparingly:

"As you step into the room, you are overwhelmed by the presence of..."

"No."

"What?"

"Unless a will save is involved, my half-orc isn't overwhelmed by mere presence of whatever it is. My half-orc, I decide when he's overwhelmed."

"Well... ok. As you walk into the room, all of you except Grokar are overwhelmed by the presence of the..."

"Thank you."

...show, don't tell. It's generally much more effective to describe something in overwhelming or captivating terms than it is to just tell your audience that they are overwhelmed and captivated.

[Anxe]

That's why you have the fawning NPCs in the room when they show up to see her! They're all overwhelmed.

[MrNexx]

Let's see. 40 Charisma is a +15 modifier to any cha-related efforts. That's a lot, but... not quite as much as some people here have made it out to be. It requires several levels and maxxed skills backing it up to really be any use, and even then it's not so hot.

Without any skill points or bonuses, this person can take 10 and still have a 25 result on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. That makes a Hostile person indifferent, without effort. That will automatically intimidate any 1st level cleric of the PH races (except a halfling). And, again, this assumes she doesn't put any points into the skills of Bluff, Diplomancy, or Intimidate.

The DC to save against her At Will Charm monster is 29, and that's assuming she DOESN'T have an ability focus. Detect Thoughts is 27; Suggestion is DC 28.

[knightsaline]

What you have to realize is that a Succubus is the embodiment of Lust. Maybe that she has a spell she made herself or was granted it that allows her to look like the persons greatest sexual desire. base that on the Obyriths "form of madness" and change it so that when a person looks at her, they see the embodiment of their hearts desire. Men will want to leave their wives to even glance at her. women will want to "experiment" with her. Genderless beings will want to try and mate with her, even though they lack the apparatus to do so. She could walk naked through the streets for a day and everyone will remember the day she did that for centuries to come and celebrate with a massive festival. Her stroking your arm would make you feel like you are melting, a kiss from her would feel like you are melting into her. intimate contact with her would make you feel like you have died and gone to Celestia, Aboria or the Fundamental plane of Pleasure. If she tells you to strip, you do so without a single question. if she says that she is going to run a sword into your belly, you agree and bare your belly. She is the pleasurer of the Gods, Goddesses, Rulers of the Nine and Lords of the Layers. She is the sex. She is Malcanthet's avatar. If she hums a tune, you think it is the celestial music of the spheres. If she sings, you think that it is the voice of an angel. She is the Temptress, and can make the most chaste of monks and nuns break their oaths of chastity. you think the sun and the moon shine out of her fleshy parts.

does this sound good?

[horseboy]

If you have a gaming group that doesn't shatter the mood with off-topic conversations, Monty Python referenses, and humor on a very regular basis, then setting the mood could very much be worthwhile.

Yeah, in that case, SOMEBODY would have to make the "Hamburgers should be high" joke.

[The Extinguisher]

She is the sex.

Heh.

Anyway, I like the way Kizara and knightsaline explained it better than I could. We're talking about someone who probably is the subject of at least 5 festivals a year. At least. Have some fun with it.

[illyrus]

An alternate suggestion for you:
Succubi are excellent at disguising themselves. While a 40 charisma succubus could easily be the center of attention, they could just as easily hide their force of personality with disguise and bluff checks and have some underling assume their role. After all drawing a ton of attention to yourself just paints a big bullseye on your head and succubi are not exactly known for their bravery or martial prowess(irregardless of the fact that they're better than Joe Mortal in that regard).

Once the PCs plan their ultimate scry and die or some other tactic and take down the double, the real succubus could hang low and wait for them to leave then start her plan to handle this expected development. Maybe she poisoned the daughter enough against her father that she can reclaim her and find out all of the PC's weak points.

[Sir Jason]

intimate contact with her would make you feel like you have died and gone to Celestia, Aboria or the Fundamental plane of Pleasure.

Actually, this is still a succubus, so to a normal mortal, intimate contact will feel like negative level, which is often = death. Not so great, though they might ACTUALLY die and go to one of those places...




Oh, and Acquillon, the problem is that her huge Cha affects the NPCs, who, in all likelihood, AREN'T the same level as her with huge sense motive modifiers. When an entire village is convinced that they must kill you, its hard to find a way to stop the attack without killing a whole slew of innocents: thats the sort of moral debate you want to give players like paladins and good clerics, or pretty much any strongly moralled good player.

[Sebastian]

"...I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!"

She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood... seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful.

(I love that passage. And it's pretty much exactly what you're looking for. For another terribly high-CHA character, although not quite to that extent and far more subtle, check out Gerald Tarrant from Black Sun Rising.)

another example of high charisma character, from the same book (even if improved by magic probably)

"Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwarily to that voice could seldom report the words that they heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to seem wise themselves. When others spoke they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell. Fur some the spell lasted only while the voice spoke to them, and when it spake to another they smiled, as men do who see through a juggler's trick while others gape at it. For many the sound of the voice alone was enough to hold them enthralled; but for those whom it conquered the spell endured when they were far away. and ever they heard that soft voice whispering and urging them. But none were unmoved; none rejected its pleas and its commands without an effort of mind and will, so long as its master had control of it."

[Fishy]

I'd try to avoid fawning cultists as much as possible: Nothing is more annoying than NPCs who exists solely to
make the DMNPC look good.

[sikyon]

Tell them something like you feel deep in your heart that her words are true, or that the gods are telling you she is right or something like that.

[AtomicKitKat]

Actually, this is still a succubus, so to a normal mortal, intimate contact will feel like negative level, which is often = death. Not so great, though they might ACTUALLY die and go to one of those places...

Actually, losing a level will probably feel like a tingle running down your spine, as you forget the trials and tribulations of the last few (insert time frame). Not altogether unlike being in the arms of someone you love...