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Thread: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-09-24, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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[Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
This is one of the few swords that D&D does not have rules for (at least that I know of). It would be an exotic weapon, but actually worth the feat so here are the stats:
{table=head]Blade|Damage|Type|Crit|Special
Primary|1d6|S|20/x2|+4 to trip and disarm
Cross Guard|1d4|S|19-20/x2|When fighting defensively, using Combat Expertise, or using total defense: gain +2 shield AC
Hilt Spike|1d4|P|20/x3|May be used while grappling as a dagger, -2 to attack outside a grapple[/table]
Counts as one weapon for enhancements; while a one-handed weapon, you may wield two as if they were light weapons; may be used with weapon finesse, but not with power attack. All bonuses when wielding two Tiger Head Hook swords stack (i.e. you get +8 to trip and disarm), but if you opt to drop a weapon due to a failed trip attempt, you must drop both if you used both bonuses. You may use the hooks to hang on to an outcropping, branch, etc.
Cost: 800gp
Tiger Head Hook swords are always sold as a set of two masterwork weapons, which is reflected in the above cost.
Well, what do you think? It might be a little powerful, but thats basically what you are supposed to use the real thing for. Of course it is an ancient Chinese weapon, so it might not fit in every game but it is real awesome. Any other abilities you think it should have?Last edited by Lord Tataraus; 2008-02-08 at 10:07 AM.
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2007-09-24, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
So I'm to assume that you can only use one head per attack, right? Looks neat, worth a feat.
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2007-09-24, 06:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-09-24, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
They are not like double weapons (triple really) where you get an off-hand attack, instead you can choose which blade to use for each attack. So if you fight defensively, or want a higher crit chance, use the cross guard blade. If grappled, use the hilt spike and for normal fight use the primary blade. The sword is all about versitlity. Oh, and I forgot to add the price and damage types, I'll fix that.
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2007-09-24, 07:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
I saw a book that featured them, but they were only called hook swords, and looked slightly different.
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2007-09-24, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Can you use more than one sword per attack? If not, what if you're only holding one?
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2007-09-24, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
With two weapon fighting. Really, it should not have any penalty because people trained in their use are extremely good fighters and would not be less likely to hit then someone with S&B or THW. In fact, they would hit better, but thats just too powerful and I figured "no penalties for two-weapon fighting" would make the weapon just too good compared to other weapons. But really, I could see a swashbuckler-type or rogue kicking a fighters a$$ with these. And you normally don't train to use only one, they aren't balanced for that. Plus you can't buy them separate and you can't mix sets because they would not be balanced right.
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2007-09-27, 12:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
What about my personal favorite maneuver, hooking the tops together and swinging the crossguard out like a crazy axe-chuck?
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2007-09-27, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-09-27, 06:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-10-11, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Hooking the tops of the swords together is actually a real maneuver with tiger hook swords. Generally it was only done by either people who were very, very good with the weapons or someone who thought they were. The later type generally ended up with only one sword and/or severe cuts from their other weapon flying away. Perhaps the training such a thing would require could be represented by a feat? Something like this?
Linked Swords Slash(AKA Crazy Axe-chuck Maneuver)
Prerequisites: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB +8
Benefit: As a free action you can hook your tiger hook swords together by the hooks at their ends and attack. When you do this you threaten out to 10' around your area. (This is in addition the normal 5 feet of reach a medium or small character would have.) When using your tiger hook swords this way you can only attack with the cross guard of the weapon. You may only do this if you are dual wielding two tiger hook swords.
Normal: Using tiger hook swords this way normally gives the wielder a -4 improvised weapon penalty. In addition if they miss their target's AC by 10 or more they deal damage to themselves instead of their target and loose the other tiger hook sword.Last edited by Nostri; 2007-10-12 at 04:47 PM.
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2007-10-11, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Oh, and *THREAD RAISE DEAD*
(The thread now has 1 negative level. This means that all additional posts on it may or may not be ignored entirely by most of the board....)~Nostri, frequent lurker and periodic poster
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2007-10-11, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-10-11, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Personally, since this seems to be a weapon thats more about skill and finesse than pure strength, I'd copy the line from rapier about being unable to power attack with it. +8 to trip and disarm seems a bit much... Are there even rules for using two weapons in a trip or disarm special attack? If you fail, must you drop both to not be tripped? That +2/+4 to AC could use a type, even if its only a shield bonus. Does it work for the total defense action as well?
Something you might wish to add to the crunch is a penalty for welding only one or trying to duel weld one of these with something else: fluff-wise this appears to be more a very special double weapon than two single weapons.
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2007-10-11, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Some good points, I've edited the original entry to add some of your suggestions. As for the penalty for wielding only one or duel wield with another weapon, I did consider that at first, but I figured that because of their synergy and the fact you can never get just one it was not necessary. If you used these weapons, would we wield them any other way?
Also remember (though it might not have been clear at first), that to gain the benefit that is attached to a specific blade, you must have used that blade in the action, so you only get the +2/+4 shield bonus to AC if you used the cross guard blades in your action.
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2007-10-11, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
I'd make it so you get an automatic intimidate (demoralize opponent) for the crazy axe-chuck maneuver. You could get one of these sundered, share one with a party member who gets his sundered, attempt to do the crazy axe-chuck maneuver without taking the feat, etc.
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2007-10-12, 07:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Keep the feat name as is!
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2007-10-12, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Changed the feat name. Maybe I'll add an automatic Intimidate check but I'm not sure. It might add too much to the feat, tip the balance over. Anyone else have an opinion?
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2007-10-12, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-10-12, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-10-12, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-10-15, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Linked Swords Slash (AKA Crazy Axe-chuck Maneuver)
Prerequisites: BAB +10, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: As a free action you can hook your tiger hook swords together by the hooks at their ends and attack. When you do this you threaten out to 10' around your area. (This is in addition the normal 5 feet of reach a medium or small character would have.)
Special: If you fumble (roll a natural 1 on an attack roll) while wielding your swords in this manner you loose the unheld sword in the attack. The sword lands in a randomly determined adjacent square without causing damage to the square's occupent. When using your tiger hook swords this way you can only attack with the cross guard of the weapon. You may only do this if you are dual wielding two tiger hook swords.
Normal: Using tiger hook swords this way normally gives the wielder a -4 improvised weapon penalty. In addition if they miss their target's AC by 10 or more they deal damage to themselves instead of their target and loose the other tiger hook sword.
There, revised the feat to include loosing the sword if you roll a 1. Adding another feat related to the same manuver:
Ferocious Hooked Tiger
Prerequisites: BAB +10, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Tiger Hook Sword), Weapon Focus (Tiger Hook Sword), Two-Weapon Fighting, Linked Swords Slash
Benifit: When you are duel wielding tiger hook swords you may make an Intimidate to demoralize an opponant as a standard action through a complex series of flashy moves that involve hooking and unhooking your swords. You get a +4 equipment bonus to this roll. You may end this manuver with your swords linked or unlinked.
Special: If you roll a natural 1 on your Intimidate check you loose one of your swords to a miscalculation during your attempt. This weapon flies into a randomly determined adjacent square without causing any damage to the square's occupent.~Nostri, frequent lurker and periodic poster
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2007-10-16, 10:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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2007-10-16, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
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2007-11-04, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
I think it'd be far easier just to take levels in Exotic Weapon Master, as that'd cover the two-weapon fighting a master of the weapons would use with Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting and the intimidation effect with the Show Off ability. If you wanted a final ability to maximize Show Off, I'd suggest Trip Attack, which would bring the Trip bonus up to +12
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2007-11-05, 03:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
I like this weapon write up. The whole mentality of the two weapon fighting thing though, would be best handle by the entire TWF tree.
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2008-01-17, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
Nice. I'm gonna add this to my rogue/monk right now.
EDIT: By the way, after doing some research on the weapon, the "primary" portion of the weapon seems to be blunt so there should be no damage or at least bludgeoning damage.Last edited by Zurpl; 2008-01-17 at 03:16 AM.
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2008-01-17, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
May I say that I was just looking for a suitable exotic weapon for my new character that I'm thinking about. I thought to myself "I dislike the arms & equipment guide weapons, and the phb weapons, HEY! I'll check the homebrew section!" and here it is, A perfect answer to my cry. This weapon(s) will make an excellent addition to a young armorless fighter I was making! It gets my special seal of approval which is often in the shape of a cookie. (not this time! )
EDIT: I also saw these weapons in a sword shop and wanted them but decided on not getting it for financial reasons. I reaaaallllyy like them.
EDIT EDIT: what about for kensai? Would two tiger head hook swords be 1 signature weapon? I think it would act as a double weapon for kensai purposes.Last edited by Xyk; 2008-01-17 at 10:52 PM.
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2008-01-17, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
I would rule the weapons as a single double weapon for this purpose. Considering, you can't buy them separately, they are two parts of one whole. However, it is up to your DM. I'm glad you like them.
@ Zurpl's edit: Hm...I thought they where blades...well, I guess bludgeoning is fine then, but I don't see why you couldn't sharpen them. I'll leave that up to the DM to decide.
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2008-01-20, 01:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [Weapon] Tiger Head Hook Swords
I think the weapon deals too much damage, if you don't mind me saying so.
The primary deals the damage of a long sword, but the weapon doesn't look like its as large or small.
The Cross gaurds looks more like a knife like damage if you don't mind me saying so.
Hilt spike doesn't seem like the damage I would go for.
I also don't like some of the bonus' that you gain from the tiger hooked blades. +4 to trip and disarm? I say +2 to trip and disarm for balance reasons and realism. The said, made for disarming, has a +2 to disarm. Just saying. And the shield bonus to ac negates the need to take Two-weapon Defense, or gives you an even greater bonus. May I suggest a +1?
As for the price.... whoa. I have never seen a non-magic weapon cost that much. I think you should reduce the price down to 650 gold pieces.
Nice feats! I find that the fumble doesn't make too much sense. I mean, when you take the feat your trained to actuelly do it in that manner, so why would you fail to do a manuever that you've been drilling yourself to do (hence taking the feat). Besides, most DMs I know have the Nat 1 fumble rule for all weapons.
And why would it be intimidate check? Would it not be a Perform (Weapon drill) instead? Intimidate skill is about body language and what you say and how you say it.
I hope that I was atleast a little helpful.