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2020-08-09, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
- Location
- Missouri
- Gender
Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
So, was doing some looking around the forum, and maybe I missed something, but the only thread I found was this.
So, Druid player. Aasimar Druid. Has a Tiger as an Animal Companion, and found the Vassal of Bahamut PrC. Her Tiger recently gained his 15th HD, and as per the Druid rules (and MM Vol 1 rules, and Savage Species rules) her tiger is due another Feat. And can take and gain the benefits of the Vow Feats. No issues there.
She wants Lazaroth (tiger) to take Sacred Vow.
My argument is you you can't take a Vow if you're not Sentient. (Tigers have 2 INT, sentience is 3+ in 3.5e)
She countered "If I take Exalted Companion, he gets 3 INT", and she's right.
Thing is, she knows I know she wants to have Laz take the Vassal Of Bahamut PrC. Which, RAW, a sentient creature could do if they meet all prerequisites.
My question is: What do?
Should I allow this, and if not, why? And how would I go about saying no without sounding like an ass "I'm the DM, I said no. I don't need a reason"
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2020-08-09, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
3 int may be human-like intelligence but the average human has 10 intelligence. For game play purposes 3 int let's the player character stay themselves with penalties. That keeps it simple. For RP purposes it could be used to say that the creature can willingly know it is giving a vow, but not understand it's significance.
Ask if your player is wanting to take a derivative feat down the line. If they aren't I don't see a problem. If they are, suggest that they find a way to boost intelligence at least semi-permanently such as using a headband of intellect. Also, vow of poverty is not a good option for animals as they aren't giving up anything as they are already impoverished. The point and power of a vow is that you are giving something up. If they are wanting to take vow of poverty I would strike it down as simply power gaming.
Oops, I skipped the part about wanting to take class levels. While the creature is a companion it is governed by the rules of companions. It doesn't gain actual HD and therefore can't take class levels unless they set it free from service and awaken it as a cohort or something similar.Last edited by Darg; 2020-08-09 at 10:51 AM.
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2020-08-09, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
Exalted Companion allows the Druid to have a Celestial Creature animal companion, which has Int to 3 if it was lower, and a good alignment. However, it does not retroactively update their current companion to a Celestial creature. They would need to dismiss their current companion and summon a new one with the template, it's an inherited template so a creature must be born with it. Granted you (as DM) could hand wave the part about replacing the current companion, and just have her perform the ritual as though summoning a new one to modify her existing companion. In either case the new version of the companion would have all the default feats and skill ranks of a MM Tiger, and she can repick those for any additional HD from being an animal companion.
Vassal of Bahamut requires Craft (armorsmithing) 5 ranks and Diplomacy 5 ranks, with Int 3 it only gets one skill point per HD, and those are cross-class skills for it. It can't reasonably expect to take ranks in either skill without Int 3+, but on top of that you can't reasonably expect a tiger to be able to learn to craft armor, and Celestial Creature doesn't grant any languages so you also can't reasonably expect it to learn diplomacy. Even if it could learn those skills, gaining ten cross-class skill ranks takes twenty skill points, at one skill point per HD it couldn't hope to qualify until it has 26 HD.
Animal companions don't gain experience points, if it doesn't gain experience it can't gain class levels. Even if it did, you would need to assign a LA for the tiger itself, it would have another +2 LA for Celestial Creature, and all of its HD including those from being an animal companion count toward its ECL. It would start at 0 xp and need to gain a portion of the party's xp if it ever hopes to level up.
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2020-08-10, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- Lake Jackson, TX
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
Just keep it simple and avoid the headache
Animal Companions can't take Class LevelsThe beatings will continue until morale improves!
Vaz approval for the best backstory. Villainous Competition 16: Burn Baby Burn
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=114
Honorable Mention Villainous Competition 22: I Am The Night
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-Night!/page6 Xihu Ayame
Click my Vulpix to feed it yummy berries!
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2020-08-10, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- Location
- In your head.
- Gender
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
"Come play in the darkness with me."
Thanks for the avatar, banjo1985!
Spoiler
I guess I'm a Neutral Good Human Wizard (4th Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength- 14
Dexterity- 15
Constitution- 17
Intelligence- 20
Wisdom- 20
Charisma- 12
Take the 'What D&D Character am I?" Quiz!
Somehow I doubt the veracity of this quiz :P
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
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2020-08-10, 04:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2018
- Location
- Missouri
- Gender
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
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2020-08-10, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- UK
- Gender
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2020-08-10, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
If you want the animal companion to be able to gain class levels, he needs to take Leadership and make it his cohort, and you need to assign a level adjustment to it. Even then, its animal HD count toward its total ECL, which significantly limits how many class levels it can gain.
An animal companion gains 2 HD for every 3 levels the Druid gains. A Celestial Tiger is a 'Level -7' companion, but if he has Natural Bond that's only -4.
Assuming you give the tiger itself no LA and only use the +2 for Celestial Creature, the tiger's ECL isn't going to be two lower than the Druid character's level until the Druid is level 16 without Natural Bond, or 20 with it. That means the tiger can start taking class levels when the Druid is level 17 or level 21 depending on whether or not he has Natural Bond, provided his Leadership score is high enough to have a cohort only two levels below him. If he takes Epic Leadership his cohort can be up to his own level, but again the leadership score is going to be the limiting factor.
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2020-08-11, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Location
- In eternity.
- Gender
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
As GM, do you want this animal companion to take this PrC? If so, allow it. If not, disallow it. State that it's based on your preference.
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2020-08-14, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- The Netherlands
- Gender
Re: Druids, Animal Companions, and Vow Feats
I'm with endarire in that if you want to allow it, go for it. I never find myself needing to give very strong buffs to my druid players, but YMMV. However:
Well sure, if you ignore everything that is different, then what you end up with is pretty much the same. It's actually not the same though, with one of the main differences being that AC's don't get to pick a class to advance in. the just get bonus animal HD.