OOTS #1227 - The Discussion Thread

[Anitar]

so how many people called "troll blood"? i'm not gonna scroll through the discussion for the last comic!

Troll, specifically? None. Blood, specifically? None that I recall. People were focusing more on possibilities of half-undeath, or something about hag skin.

[PontificatusRex]

Elan, when he converted the Island Orcs to Banjo/Gigglesism.

One could say that Lien and the whole Azurite nation had friendly/respectful relations with a monster race, since they set up a trade deal with the orcs after everything calmed down.

[Jasdoif]

What I'm still wondering is how Xykon would have known to even track down Serini. She looks young in the flashbacks, so this apparently happened a long time ago...

So much important information is in her diary, and it's easy to figure out her identity and about the other Order of the Scribble with it. But without the diary, it still begs the question of how he would know to go after her.

Divination magic, most likely. We're shown a panel of him trying to visit the Oracle, likely he used somebody else as well. And being a lich it's not like he needs to sleep anymore.

It would certainly be valid legend lore material, and maybe this is what first led Xykon to Quest Buy.

[PracticalM]

For all the people saying Serini has gone evil, from her perspective the Paladins are breaking the rules about keeping the defense of gates isolated.
Yes, if she has one of those devices regarding the status of the other gates then she knows this is the last one, but it's the Paladins breaking the rules first.

We don't yet know what she thinks and I hope more of it comes out in the next few strips.

It might be that she thinks the Paladins are responsible for the dead gates.
She seems to be aware that the loss of the gates will mean the end of the world but she might not know that the gods will unmake the world instead of Snarl destroying it. (I don't see how she could know about the billions of worlds the gods have made.)

It may be that she wants to go down fighting to protect the last gate because she thinks there's nothing left.

Do the Paladins know that Lirian and Dorukan are trapped in the gem? That might be a reason for Serini to change her plans. I don't think anyone outside of team evil knows this though.

[KorvinStarmast]

Serini is the best. Seriously, what a cool character. Feels like something you'd see in a real D&D game, too - "this is my elderly halfling roguen whose been partially transformed by an infusion of troll blood."

Yeah, very D&D.

He did say it. Just in a overly poetic way.
Formal. Polite?
Something like that.
Just blurting it out wouldn't be him.

+1

You're right, the white hair has to be a side effect of Xykon's attack or the troll's blood. Maybe she looks old now but she's probably still relatively young for a halfling.

Not likely. Been 60+ years since Scribblers and she was an adult, perhaps a young adult, when she was in that adventuring band.

I wonder how Serini and the MitD will get along if they meet.

Two silver pieces says: Famously.

It may be that she wants to go down fighting to protect the last gate because she thinks there's nothing left.

Given that she's an epic level adventurer, I'll say that's an easy bet to back.

[Ionathus]

You're right, the white hair has to be a side effect of Xykon's attack or the troll's blood. Maybe she looks old now but she's probably still relatively young for a halfling.
Now that I think about it, the troll's blood explains the green face and limbs but why it's the speech bubble green? Have we seen any kind of troll speaking in the comic before? Is that the way they talk or it's something different that we still don't know about?

Not likely. Been 60+ years since Scribblers and she was an adult, perhaps a young adult, when she was in that adventuring band.

Looking at the artwork, I think there's a hint that troll blood caused her hair to go white: look at the panel where Xykon attacks her, and then the panel where she's getting the infusion. Her hair has already developed noticeable streaks.

[Bacon Elemental]

For all the people saying Serini has gone evil, from her perspective the Paladins are breaking the rules about keeping the defense of gates isolated.
Yes, if she has one of those devices regarding the status of the other gates then she knows this is the last one, but it's the Paladins breaking the rules first.

We don't yet know what she thinks and I hope more of it comes out in the next few strips.

It might be that she thinks the Paladins are responsible for the dead gates.
She seems to be aware that the loss of the gates will mean the end of the world but she might not know that the gods will unmake the world instead of Snarl destroying it. (I don't see how she could know about the billions of worlds the gods have made.)

This is a very good point - in 695, Girard's Greater Illusion Of Paladin Mockery (And Explosion) informs us that it was set to inform Girard's clan AND Serini when Soon cheated. This definitely tells us something about where Serini's opinions about the Scribblers lay, even if she broke up the actual violence. Girard didn't tell it to warn everyone else to rub it in Soon's face, Girard only wanted himself and one other individual to know, so they must have been pretty close, given his paranoia.

So Serini knows the Paladins went looking for Girard's Gate only a few weeks before the actual thing blew up, and then Xykon showed up within hours at Monster Hollow

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Yanisa]

Maybe she looks old now but she's probably still relatively young for a halfling.

I am unsure why so many people think halflings live long, but they don't get that much older then humans, as compared to elves and dwarves.

From the DnD 3.5 rules:
Race - Middle Age - Old - Venerable - Maximum Age
Human - 35 years - 53 years - 70 years - +2d20 years
Halfling - 50 years - 75 years - 100 years - +5d20 years

Not likely. Been 60+ years since Scribblers and she was an adult, perhaps a young adult, when she was in that adventuring band.

Yup, Serini was most likely around the age of 80 during that attack.

[Steveio]

You're right, the white hair has to be a side effect of Xykon's attack or the troll's blood. Maybe she looks old now but she's probably still relatively young for a halfling.
Now that I think about it, the troll's blood explains the green face and limbs but why it's the speech bubble green? Have we seen any kind of troll speaking in the comic before? Is that the way they talk or it's something different that we still don't know about?

If I had to guess, the speech bubbles are a result of her larynx being part-troll as well, and that changed how her voice sounds.

[Beni-Kujaku]

I have got an idea for what the spell Xykon used was. To all that asked why Xykon didn't make sure Serini was dead and didn't Soul Bind her, I'm pretty sure it is because the spell he used was Blackfire from Complete Arcane. Not only does it fit the visual (it's litterally black fire on the panel), it is a medium range Necromancy spell that slowly turns one's body into black ash (loses Constitution each round until death). So the effect is right, seeing as Serini wasn't all burnt when she was hit by the spell, but had limbs burnt later. And even more, when someone is killed by this spell, they are nigh-impossible to resurrect (True res or Wish only AND a CL check), which nobody in the Scribblers, and probably the world could accomplish at the time, if I'm not mistaken. So there was little reason to double check, since the chances someone with low Fortitude succeeds three checks in a row are close to zero, and little reason to take further action, since nobody alive could resurrect her anyway.

[Jetty]

...she is half "regular pc race" and half "monster race" ...

A pc monster race, even?

[Sky_Schemer]

No, that's just the magical aura that appears when people cast spells; most undead(including the Ex-arch) have black auras. Also Horrid Wilting strips the moisture from creatures, and Serini looks burned or corroded.

Incendiary Cloud would fit.

[Fyraltari]

You're right, the white hair has to be a side effect of Xykon's attack or the troll's blood. Maybe she looks old now but she's probably still relatively young for a halfling.

I was more thinking the traumtism itself. Alledgedly someone's hair can go full white in a couple of weeks after a brush with death but there's scarce scientific evidence on the subject.

Now that I think about it, the troll's blood explains the green face and limbs but why it's the speech bubble green? Have we seen any kind of troll speaking in the comic before? Is that the way they talk or it's something different that we still don't know about?

I guess her vocal cords have been damaged and partly replaced by a troll's resulting in a wonky voice.

Do the Paladins know that Lirian and Dorukan are trapped in the gem? That might be a reason for Serini to change her plans. I don't think anyone outside of team evil knows this though.

Unless Xykon or Redcloak told somebody off-screen, no-one knows. Honestly it seems like Lirian and Dorukan had a happy ending so I'd doubt we'll ever see the gem again, except maybe if it is destroy during the ending.

Not likely. Been 60+ years since Scribblers and she was an adult, perhaps a young adult

Maybe she went gray late in life then. Or maybe halfling biology is different.

I am unsure why so many people think halflings live long, but they don't get that much older then humans, as compared to elves and dwarves.

From the DnD 3.5 rules:
Race - Middle Age - Old - Venerable - Maximum Age
Human - 35 years - 53 years - 70 years - +2d20 years
Halfling - 50 years - 75 years - 100 years - +5d20 years

So any halfling can live naturally to [105:200] years old? Seems like brown hair by 80-100 is justified.

[Liquor Box]

Serini is coming off as kind of evil. Do we think it's because she got her blood mixed with troll blood, and troll are an evil race?

[Cadmium]

Maybe she used to dye her hair, but she stopped bothering once she became all monstrified.

[KorvinStarmast]

Serini is coming off as kind of evil. Do we think it's because she got her blood mixed with troll blood, and troll are an evil race?

Who is this 'we' that you are referring to? Do you think this?

[Fyraltari]

Serini is coming off as kind of evil.

Scolding people for assuming selfish motives over selfless one comes off as evil to you?

Do we think it's because she got her blood mixed with troll blood, and troll are an evil race?

Ah, yes the evil race who save people form death (at the hands of a human, I might add) necause they're fond of them. How villainous.

Also, this is the author's position on the subject of "evil races":

Hmm- how do we retain the alignment system (as per the much earlier post about liking some of it) while jettisoning all "unfortunate implications"?

Maybe, for all Monster Manuals, leave out the alignment line in a statblock entirely?

Yeah, I think that would take care of 90% of the problem. I mean, you can still describe the goblins' place in the world and how they usually live by raiding civilized nations without passing a personal moral judgment on all of them. Let alignment be something assigned by the DM when he places that creature in his campaign. If he wants them to be amoral slavers, he gives them and Evil alignment; if he wants them to be scrappy survivors making the best out of their lot in life, he might give them True Neutral or even Chaotic Good (especially if the civilized nations are Evil Empires). DMs already do that for every human that appears, is it so difficult to imagine doing it for the other races, too? Leave inborn alignment to the overtly supernatural—if it exists at all—and away from biological creatures.

EDIT:

Maybe she used to dye her hair, but she stopped bothering once she became all monstrified.

I love how simple and obvious that explanation is.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Serini is coming off as kind of evil. Do we think it's because she got her blood mixed with troll blood, and troll are an evil race?

We've seen multiple times that "Good" and "Evil" are more an affair of culture and education than race in this comic (the teen goblins, Oona seems pretty neutral, the MitD is clearly good...). And Serini takes the time and effort to capture paladins and erase their memories instead of killing them even though, to her, they have broken the last oath of their party. I'm pretty sure she's not evil, and if she was it would not be because of some blood, but only because she is desperate and bitter to not be able to live in a society anymore.

[RMS Oceanic]

Looking at the artwork, I think there's a hint that troll blood caused her hair to go white: look at the panel where Xykon attacks her, and then the panel where she's getting the infusion. Her hair has already developed noticeable streaks.

Nah, I think it just turned white as a response to incredible stress. Stress caused by traumatic life threatening injuries.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have got an idea for what the spell Xykon used was. To all that asked why Xykon didn't make sure Serini was dead and didn't Soul Bind her, I'm pretty sure it is because the spell he used was Blackfire from Complete Arcane.

This post was worth coming back to the thread for today. Thanks; I'll check that book when I get to where it is.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Maybe she used to dye her hair, but she stopped bothering once she became all monstrified.

Dye? Not Epic enough. Obviously she got a long-term illusion from Girard that eventually ran out. Or just regular applications of Prestidigitation.

[Anitar]

Dye? Not Epic enough. Obviously she got a long-term illusion from Girard that eventually ran out. Or just regular applications of Prestidigitation.

Prestidigitation? Not Epic enough. Obviously she soloed a giant monster and used its brown blood that eventually ran out.

[Michaeler]

Since people have been getting philosophical, does anyone know where to find Rich's article about the two evil overlords who knew each other since childhood and were friends in spite of it making no sense?

It seems relevant.

[QTR]

I think Belkar is really going to like her.

[Corian]

I have got an idea for what the spell Xykon used was. To all that asked why Xykon didn't make sure Serini was dead and didn't Soul Bind her, I'm pretty sure it is because the spell he used was Blackfire from Complete Arcane.

Not familiar with it but it makes sense; in case anyone had the same idea, it's an 8th level spell, and there is indeed an "Unknown" slot at 8th level in O'Chul's list of Xykon's spells.

[Sebastian]

Exactly, she's epic-level, presumed to associate with other epic-level adventurers, and could be expected to be carrying any variety of items that might help. I feel that in a world with so many instant fixes for deadly attacks, while only a thorough person might bother to prevent ressurrection, it should be standard to make sure your opponent either has X-eyes of a pile of ash for a face

I don't think Xykon would have necessarily thought to soul-bind Lirian if not for sheer spite, but I think it made sense for him to take it as practice for all the Scribblers her killed afterwards—and this is obviously after killing Lirian, so I'm surprised he didn't.

I doubt Xykon consider non-caster classes a threat. A epic level wizard (or druid) ghost is scary even for a epic lich, hence the necessity to entrap them but a epic rogue ghost? what she is gonna do? sneak attack him? with a negative energy attack?

[KorvinStarmast]

Not familiar with it but it makes sense; in case anyone had the same idea, it's an 8th level spell, and there is indeed an "Unknown" slot at 8th level in O'Chul's list of Xykon's spells.

*golf clap* Nice catch on that also.

I have decided to coin a neologism that describes Serini's unique blend of troll and halfling.
Trolfling.
It kind of grows on ya ...

[Sapphire Guard]

On looting: Serini could have plenty of magic items that would be valuable to a troll village, but of no value to Xykon, like, say, immunity to fire, which Xykon already has a magic item for (he's immune to Meteor Swarm)

Re the fight, we can probably assume what which could have explanations e see is a snippet of a longer engagement, which could explain why she survived. He could have thrown her to the trolls, and so on.

[Sebastian]

I have got an idea for what the spell Xykon used was. To all that asked why Xykon didn't make sure Serini was dead and didn't Soul Bind her, I'm pretty sure it is because the spell he used was Blackfire from Complete Arcane. Not only does it fit the visual (it's litterally black fire on the panel), it is a medium range Necromancy spell that slowly turns one's body into black ash (loses Constitution each round until death). So the effect is right, seeing as Serini wasn't all burnt when she was hit by the spell, but had limbs burnt later. And even more, when someone is killed by this spell, they are nigh-impossible to resurrect (True res or Wish only AND a CL check), which nobody in the Scribblers, and probably the world could accomplish at the time, if I'm not mistaken. So there was little reason to double check, since the chances someone with low Fortitude succeeds three checks in a row are close to zero, and little reason to take further action, since nobody alive could resurrect her anyway.

And it would explain because she would need something elaborate like blood troll infusion to survive, rather than just a healing potion, or taking a nap.