Armor Spikes

[Armads]

A few questions about Armor Spikes

1) Whenever you make a successful grapple check, you deal damage with the armor spikes. Does this damage include your strength modifier?

2) Would multiple 'armor-spike-like' effects (like sharkskin armor, armor razors, netcutter spikes) stack (for grapple damage dealt)

3) How do you attack with an armor spike from reach if you have more than normal reach (Like Aberration Blood + Inhuman Reach on a human)?

[Jormund]

Heh, a human cheesegrate... only that it's not cheese you're grating.

[Talic]

A few questions about Armor Spikes

1) Whenever you make a successful grapple check, you deal damage with the armor spikes. Does this damage include your strength modifier?

2) Would multiple 'armor-spike-like' effects (like sharkskin armor, armor razors, netcutter spikes) stack (for grapple damage dealt)

3) How do you attack with an armor spike from reach if you have more than normal reach (Like Aberration Blood + Inhuman Reach on a human)?

1) Yes. - Grapple damage is strength based.

2) No. - The grapple check applies to a single armor spikes. It's like asking if you have 2 swords on your character, can you deal damage with both on one attack roll. A specific feat allows it, but the base rules say no.

3) Unless the spikes have reach, you don't. Keep in mind, characters can
have different weapons with different reach (dragons have greater reach with their bite, for example, than their claws). That said, if you have spikes on your armor, and your natural attack has reach (such as by being large), then you use them exactly as any other weapon, and attack from the distance allowed. Alternately, you can grapple , but one of the steps in grappling involves entering the victim's square.

[Dhavaer]

2) No. - The grapple check applies to a single armor spikes. It's like asking if you have 2 swords on your character, can you deal damage with both on one attack roll. A specific feat allows it, but the base rules say no.

I'm not familiar with any of the listed examples, but if they say 'any creature grappling you takes X damage' then they probably do stack. The analogy would be a sword with the flaming and shocking enhancements.

[Armads]

Another question...

The description of armor spikes in a grapple is:

You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack.

Does 'a successful grapple attack' refer to making a specific attack to damage with the spikes, or any successful grapple check (like those made to break out, to hold, and stuff like that).

3) Unless the spikes have reach, you don't. Keep in mind, characters can
have different weapons with different reach (dragons have greater reach with their bite, for example, than their claws). That said, if you have spikes on your armor, and your natural attack has reach (such as by being large), then you use them exactly as any other weapon, and attack from the distance allowed. Alternately, you can grapple , but one of the steps in grappling involves entering the victim's square.

I meant, how does one attack with armor spikes from 10ft away, if they're large (from Enlarge Person)? It seems impossible to do so.

[Talic]

I'm not familiar with any of the listed examples, but if they say 'any creature grappling you takes X damage' then they probably do stack. The analogy would be a sword with the flaming and shocking enhancements.

Not the same. Those are different enhancements on the same weapon. This is an issue of two seperate weapons. Armor spikes and another item which act as armor spikes. As armor spikes count as an off hand weapon (something I've taken advantage of when using 2 handed power attacking with two weapon fighting), they use weapon rules for attacks, with one exception.

You may make a grapple check (a standard action) to deal damage with the armor spikes. Thus, if you have 2 sets of spikes, then you may make a grapple check as a standard action to deal damage with one or the other, but the grapple check will not allow you to deal damage with both.

[Talic]

Another question...

The description of armor spikes in a grapple is:



Does 'a successful grapple attack' refer to making a specific attack to damage with the spikes, or any successful grapple check (like those made to break out, to hold, and stuff like that).

Not quite. You may make an attack with a light weapon in a grapple at a -4 penalty. Since armor spikes are a light weapon, you may do this as a grapple attack. Alternately, you may also make a grapple check to deal damage with the spikes. Both methods have advantages. Against creatures with good grapple modifiers, the attack is sometimes better (especially if you're making a touch attack, or your spikes have the brilliant energy enhancement), whereas if you're well devoted to grappling, often the check is better.

Some abilities do stack, though. Nature's Warrior has an ability entitled Serpent's Coils, which causes your opponent to take damage whenever he fails a grapple check. This stacks with most grapple abilities, since he fails whenever you succeed. I believe there's a Nine Swords Stance as well, and some alternate druid forms have enhanced grappling abilities. Earth's Embrace is a decent feat for grapple damage, as well. Most of these stack with armor spikes.

I meant, how does one attack with armor spikes from 10ft away, if they're large (from Enlarge Person)? It seems impossible to do so.

Reach implies more than just 10 foot long spikes. If spikes are on the arms and legs, clothesline style attacks and such could be used to deliver spike blows, as could a shoulder rush. As long as you could conceivably recover in a second or two to the original position, it could be used to explain the maneuver.

[Subotei]

Reach implies more than just 10 foot long spikes. If spikes are on the arms and legs, clothesline style attacks and such could be used to deliver spike blows, as could a shoulder rush. As long as you could conceivably recover in a second or two to the original position, it could be used to explain the maneuver.

It could be something as simple as a spiked gauntlet, or a kick with a spiked boot.

[OzymandiasVolt]

Exactly. Armor Spikes are not limited to torso armor.

[Fawsto]

Tell me this:

You guys know the PrC from Complete Warrior, right? That one the especializes on Grappling, she has a few nasty attacks that can kill you in a space of 3 rounds or so. Ok, Spiked Armor, among other thigs, is made to prevent grapplers, but the mentioned PrC can withstand 3 rounds of 1d4 + str (and possibly + grappler str) while he kills you.

Do this seem correct? I mean, how come someone could kill you during a grapple by sufocating you and ignore the damage?

If a Dragon swallows you, you only deal 1d4+strg damage once when you go down his throat? And other 1d4+str per round while in the stomach? Wouldn't an automatic crit happen here? I mean, the dragon is swallowing spikes! The damage reduction applies normaly against non-magic weapons, but lets assume a set of magical armor spikes, ok?

[Draz74]

Tell me this:
If a Dragon swallows you, you only deal 1d4+strg damage once when you go down his throat? And other 1d4+str per round while in the stomach? Wouldn't an automatic crit happen here? I mean, the dragon is swallowing spikes! The damage reduction applies normaly against non-magic weapons, but lets assume a set of magical armor spikes, ok?

First, you're trying to impose realism onto D&D rules that are supposed to represent combat in an abstract way. You're welcome to do so, but I won't particularly be bothered (in this case) if you find some things that don't make sense (and I'm not going to try to justify them) along the way.

Second, the specific example of a dragon is probably a bad idea. Most dragons don't have a Swallow Whole special attack. If they did ... I wouldn't think that swallowing a bunch of spikes is particularly dangerous. Dragons have tough innards. They digest rocks and stuff all the time. I think their stomach wall is tougher than an ogre's skull.

[Fawsto]

Second, the specific example of a dragon is probably a bad idea. Most dragons don't have a Swallow Whole special attack. If they did ... I wouldn't think that swallowing a bunch of spikes is particularly dangerous. Dragons have tough innards. They digest rocks and stuff all the time. I think their stomach wall is tougher than an ogre's skull.

Which is represented by their damage reduction x/magic. If the spikes are magic infused, what would you say?

C'mon, if I would expend a few hundreds of gold coins for a bunch of magic armor spikes I'd like them to be useful against such a PrC or against a freaking swallowing creature. Wouldn't you?

[Chronos]

I think you're trying to use the wrong tool for the job. If you want to be safe from grapples, you should be investing in a Ring of Freedom of Movement (which should be affordable, by the time you're facing most dragons or prestige classes). Trying to counter super-grapplers with armor spikes is saying "Hey, now I'm sorta a little good at what you're the best in the world at! Let's go at it!". I don't know the grappling prestige class you're talking about, but it'd probably make more sense for him to get armor spikes, since that's what he does anyway.

[Innis Cabal]

reapingh mauler

[The_Snark]

Which is represented by their damage reduction x/magic. If the spikes are magic infused, what would you say?

C'mon, if I would expend a few hundreds of gold coins for a bunch of magic armor spikes I'd like them to be useful against such a PrC or against a freaking swallowing creature. Wouldn't you?

Well... they are useful. They do some damage. If you mean they should make it a bad idea for such a character to try grappling you, no, I don't think a few thousand gold should counter five levels of a PrC. The armor isn't clustered all over with spikes, because it would be impractical to cover every inch of armor with spikes. Nor should they make a monster nonthreatening.

A skilled grappler will be trying to get around the spikes while you try to spike him. Unfortunately, he's more experienced at grappling, and will be twisting around the spikes far more than you're able to stab him with them (by succeeding at a grapple check). As for the swallowing creature? Anything large enough to swallow you whole is large and tough enough that while a few spikes would hurt it some (1d6+Str), they wouldn't be large enough to do anything worse.

Edit- Oh yes, the prestige class you're talking about is the reaping mauler.

[Stam]

Armor spikes don't automatically deal damage to someone grappling/swallowing a character, either. There are some spells or the like that do, but simply having spiked armor is not one of them.

I could see the latter (swallowing) as a reasonable house rule, but in that case it would be a flat d6 of damage rather than d6+Str, since you're not intentionally driving the spikes into the beast, they're just scraping the gullet as you go down.

[Fawsto]

Ok, I got it. Hummm but if the damage applies, wouldn't the str modifier be the creature's? I mean, when you are swallowed the mosnter uses strenght to pull you down with his muscles. Or I guess so, since I've never been swallowed by nothing =P