The LA Assignment Thread XII: the LA-bors of Heracles

[Debatra]

Worth noting that the calzone golem's berserk is the kind where "no known method can reestablish control," like the clay golem. The clay golem isn't asterisked, but I think it should be, simply because DM interpretation can be the difference between an inconvenience and permanently losing control of your character with one unlucky saving throw. Looks like Debatra thinks the calzone golem should get the asterisk.

Well a lot of the early monsters, from the first three threads or so, were rated before we started doing asterisks. I'm happy to go back and ping them as they're spotted.

But there might be another reason for that. Since there's no type given for the magic immunity fire-based NA bonus, it should stack with itself, which means that there's probably some way to give the calzone golem arbitrarily high AC.

We've asterisked for similar things before, though I think AC might not be worth it. As people in these threads are fond of pointing out, just being hard to hit or kill isn't really game-breaking. Then again, we've done it for NI Constitution that doesn't even last as long. Though there are other things for Con besides HP and fortitude saves...

(Also, I just flat-out missed the potential for NI stacking it the first time around. Zero problem tagging that too.)

[Beni-Kujaku]

Berserk definitely has to be asterisked, but I think the hardening falls into "bonuses from the same source to the same stat do not stack unless they say so". It is still quite good to very good. Taking a full power Fireball at the beginning of the day gives you AC 24. A bath in lava gives you AC 36 (or up to 53 if you stay in there long enough to maximize damage) and a Greater Fireburst can go up to AC 40. If you can get this ability triggered consistently, combined with the rest of Magic Immunity, and Construct immunities it makes the golem really difficult to assail from any front, except with walls to keep it from the fight. And Stinking Cloud is quite a good ability to have as a free action 1/5 rd, even if the DC seems Con-based, which is less than optimal.
The offense is bad, the skills are bad, but there doesn't seem to be any reason why it couldn't wield a weapon, or play an Unarmed Swordsage and add Heat to its Unarmed Strike. I think I would be willing to overlook lacking offense if hardening was easily accessible. The problem is it's not, and does not last all day when it triggers. I don't see any easy way to deal yourself massive amounts of fire damage except by asking the party spellcaster. As it is, LA-0*.

Damnit, now I'm hungry. There should be an ability that if the golem is destroyed, eating its remains counts as a Heroes' Feast.

[Tzardok]

I wonder if that golem is animated by an earth elemental, like most other golems, or a fire elemental. Would certainly keep it hot.

[Metastachydium]

Not gonna lie, if it looked like what it looks like on that picture in Debatra's post, I'd actually consider playing one, because it's very stupid, but at least cute. But man… Is it hot garbage otherwise!

I wonder if that golem is animated by an earth elemental, like most other golems, or a fire elemental. Would certainly keep it hot.

Maybe it's Magma?

[Debatra]

Coal Golem

Size & Type: Large Construct
Space/Reach: 5'/10'
HD: 11, 19 Huge
Speed: 20' (Can't run)
Ability Scores: Str +12, Dex -2, Con -, Int -, Wis +0, Cha -10 - Net +0, two penalties
Natural Armor: 12
Natural Weapons: Two Primary Slams (2d10 +1d8 fire)
Skill List: N/A
Body Shape: Humanoid
Speech (Languages): No (understands Ignan)
CR: 10
WotC LA: -
Our LA: -0* (Berserk)

Another golem that goes berserk just by existing in combat. Its creator can try to calm it, but who cares.

This one at least has the advantages of explicitly being able to wield weapons, and is proficient with longspears. It has DR 20/magic (not really relevant at that level), and deals 1d8 fire damage not just on touch, but also by channeling its heat through any metal objects or weapons. (What kind of longspear is metal enough for this damage to work is beyond me... unless it meant metal objects and any weapons regardless of metal?)

Magic immunity of course, and special interactions with specific spells. Ice Storm slows it for 2d6 rounds, Cone of Cold slows it for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 damage, and Freezing Sphere stops its movement entirely (just movement apparently, not paralysis) for one round while dealing normal damage. Other cold effects aren't noted. Fire effects remove any slow effects (not specifically ones from cold) and heal it for the standard 1-3 ratio, with no mention of temporary HP.

We've got seven more golems to go. And then an undead golem.

[loky1109]

Sounds like another -0.

[Tzardok]

(What kind of longspear is metal enough for this damage to work is beyond me... unless it meant metal objects and any weapons regardless of metal?).

One made by salamanders. Salamanders have the same trait and are in the MM called out as making their spears completely from metal. Makes sense either way. I mean, where are you going to find wood for normal spears on the Elemental Plane of Fire?

[Metastachydium]

We've got seven more golems to go. And then an undead golem.

The horror! THE HORROR!

One made by salamanders. Salamanders have the same trait and are in the MM called out as making their spears completely from metal. Makes sense either way. I mean, where are you going to find wood for normal spears on the Elemental Plane of Fire?

…and that's a good place to mention how Savage Species even has a whole group of exotic weapons called the Slamander [whatever]spears; all metal, with improved damage! This is, of course, neither that nor the Core normal longspear (one would deal 3d6, the other 2d6 base damage), but hey.

Also, -0*, next one, please.

[loky1109]

Natural Weapons: One Primary Slam (2d10 +1d8 fire)

Two slams actually.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Looks like we were on the naughty list‚ because we're getting coal for Christmas! And crappy monsters. I like how influential the original golems from MM1 were. A lot of later golems kept the Str 11+N‚ Dex 9‚ Con _‚ Int _‚ Wis 11‚ Cha 1‚ Natural Armor+N‚ with N being the only thing changing from one golem to another. This puts the Coal Golem firmly between Flesh and Clay‚ and the special abilities' interesr is also average for a golem (understand "bad but they don't cost action so why not"). Wielding weapons have always been overrated for golems when their slams deal so much damage‚ but it's still nice to have‚ however not understanding Common is kind of a big problem‚ and would require putting two levels' worth of skill points in Speak Language. An obvious LA -0.

[Debatra]

Gold Golem

For the fourth Golem of Christmas,
WotC gave to us,
A Go-lem Made of Gooold!

Size & Type: Large Construct
Space/Reach: 10'/10'
HD: 10, 31 Huge
Speed: 20
Ability Scores: Str +16, Dex -2, Con -, Int -, Wis +0, Cha -10 - Net +4, two penalties
Natural Armor: 16
Natural Weapons: Two Primary Slams (2d10), Two Primary Tentacles (1d10) - Can apparently only use two natural weapons in a full attack, either two of one or one of each with Slam being Primary)
Skill List: N/A
Body Shape: Humanoid
Speech (Languages): No (Understands the language of its creator)
CR: 7
WotC LA: -
Our LA: -0

At least this one doesn't go berserk.

DR 10/adamantine and half-damage from slashing make for decent defenses, as does being healed by any energy attack, without the usual five being specified. Does that include negative energy then? Uncertain if that was intended. The Gold Golem is healed by one for each five damage the attack would have done. If it's hit by such an attack while at full HP, it stores the energy until the end of its next turn, during which it must use a free action to reflect it back onto its source. If it can't or doesn't for whatever reason, the energy dissipates and deals half-damage to the golem.

The aforementioned tentacles are effectively a ranged attack with 30' range. It uses dex, provokes AoOs, etc. The statblock uses Str for some reason, but text trumps table.

And of course, magic immunity and odd spell interactions.

Telekinesis' "violent thrust" option shunts 10k-18k gp out of the golem's body for the duration of the spell, giving it -1 to attacks and damage, and the temporary loss of six HP. It also can't use its "ranged slam attack" for that time. I'm assuming that was meant to be its tentacles.

Transmute Metal to Wood turns off the golem's magic immunity and DR for one round. (Not the half-damage from slashing.)

Dismissal flat-out deactivates the golem for a round, turning it back into a pile of gold.

Removing gold from a golem, either while in this state or when its master orders it to become a pile of gold, reduces its size and power at a rate of 1 RHD/10k GP. If at least half of its gold is removed, the golem is destroyed. This gold can not be restored, and the golem can not be reinforced with more gold after creation. (Which is how it dodges an asterisk, as therre is explicitly no limit to how much gold you can use to create a Gold Golem, and as such no limit to its HD.)

Its defenses are actually pretty nice (at least until the bad guys start figuring out how to safely harvest your organs), but at the end of the day it's still a 10 HD construct.

Merry Christmas.

[loky1109]

Well, it also could be 6HD construct.

[danielxcutter]

*failure trombone noises*

[Debatra]

Razor Golem

Size & Type: Large Construct
Space/Reach: 5'/10'
HD: 16, 31 Huge
Speed: 30'
Ability Scores: Str +20, Dex -2, Con -, Int -, Wis +0, Cha -10 - Net +8, two penalties
Natural Armor: 20
Natural Weapons: Two Primary Claws (2d10)
Skill List: N/A
Body Shape: Humanoid, with bladed hands that often damage what they hold.
Speech (Languages): No
CR: 12
WotC LA: -
Our LA: -0

For its DR, I looked at the Brain Golem from Fiend Folio (20/+2 translated to 10/adamantine) and decided that 20/adamantine (from 40/+2) works. That said, the Razor Golem's particular vulnerabilities turn this into 20/adamantine or bludgeoning. Rust attacks also bypass DR as well as its Golem Magic Immunity. Speaking of which, the only other exception to that would be Magic Weapon, which heals the golem for 2d6. No mention of Greater Magic Weapon, but the fact that it functions like the standard probably means it just does the same 2d6.

Its claw attacks cause cumulative bleeding wounds, dealing an additional point of damage each round until the victim gets a DC15 Heal check or any healing magic. Their bull rushes and grapples also deal slashing damage instead of bludgeoning.

Finally, it has a swarm-ish form called Tazor Wall. At will as a full-round action, it can turn into a vertical CL15 Blade Barrier or back to normal. It can't attack in this form, but it can move up to half speed and force con-based reflex saves vs 15d6 slashing as per the same spell. It can be attacked and damaged normally while in Razor Wall form, and its AC is unchanged.

[GreatWyrmGold]

This one at least has the advantages of explicitly being able to wield weapons, and is proficient with longspears. It has DR 20/magic (not really relevant at that level), and deals 1d8 fire damage not just on touch, but also by channeling its heat through any metal objects or weapons. (What kind of longspear is metal enough for this damage to work is beyond me... unless it meant metal objects and any weapons regardless of metal?)

In a world where longswords are one-handed weapons, anything is possible.

One made by salamanders. Salamanders have the same trait and are in the MM called out as making their spears completely from metal. Makes sense either way. I mean, where are you going to find wood for normal spears on the Elemental Plane of Fire?

It's worth pointing out that an all-metal spear would either need to be hollow (impractical for hand-forged weapons) or much heavier than its wood-hafted equivalent.

Telekinesis' "violent thrust" option shunts 10k-18k gp out of the golem's body for the duration of the spell, giving it -1 to attacks and damage, and the temporary loss of six HP.

I'd like to note that the violent thrust option is the only telekinesis option with a duration of Instantaneous.

I like that the trait specifies the amount of gold thrust out of the golem in terms of value, though. It's like they expected PCs to use magic to dismember the walking pile of gold bars and coins for profit. Which is a little silly—why settle for only selling part of the golem?

[Debatra]

I'd like to note that the violent thrust option is the only telekinesis option with a duration of Instantaneous.

Oh yeah... Was the 3.0 version of the spell different there?

[InvisibleBison]

Oh yeah... Was the 3.0 version of the spell different there?

No, it was not.

[danielxcutter]

Hmm, how common are bludgeoning attacks for monsters actually? I know bites count as all three.

[Tzardok]

Hmm, how common are bludgeoning attacks for monsters actually? I know bites count as all three.

Slam is probably the most common natural weapon.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Gold Golem

Removing gold from a golem, either while in this state or when its master orders it to become a pile of gold, reduces its size and power at a rate of 1 RHD/10k GP. If at least half of its gold is removed, the golem is destroyed. This gold can not be restored, and the golem can not be reinforced with more gold after creation. (Which is how it dodges an asterisk, as therre is explicitly no limit to how much gold you can use to create a Gold Golem, and as such no limit to its HD.)

I think it should get an asterisk, if only for the variability in the monster's power level. The problem is not the increase in number of HD (which is not possible after creation), but the reduction (which is). It is explicitly possible to spend the gold in your gold golem, reducing its HD by up to 4. So in the end, if this quirk isn't asterisked, the Gold Golem can be a 6 RHD golem with an added 40k gp, which is 3 times as much as the WBL at level 6, and almost as much as the WBL at level 10. Doubling your WBL is really a game changer, and the main reason why artificers are good in the first place. In that case, considering it does not lose ability scores and still has immunity to all destructive energies (even naturally occuring acid?), magic immunity, high natural armor, DR and slashing resistance, and the very damaging golem slams, it would definitely be at least +0 or +1. It's just too weird an ability to not be addressed in some way or another.

If abusing this is not on the table, then this is obviously LA-0.

Razor Golem

For its DR, I looked at the Brain Golem from Fiend Folio (20/+2 translated to 10/adamantine) and decided that 20/adamantine (from 40/+2) works.

I'm not convinced 20/Adamantine is a good way to translate 40/+2. 3.5 is very shy about DRs of 20 or more. The update booklet only gives such DR to creatures of CR 20 or more, or for ridiculous DRs such as the Varakhut's 50/+5. Even the Golem Armor (artifact giving DR 50/+3) was updated to 15/Adamantine. I think 15/Adamantine would be better for the Razor Golem as well.
Also, its Wisdom is 11 (so +0, not +10), as all self-respecting golems' are (9 Dex, 11 Wis, 1 Cha, as Wizards intended. Please ignore the MM3 golems).

Anyway, Razor Wall is fun, but it does not make up for 16 HD. LA -0

[Metastachydium]

I'd like to note that the violent thrust option is the only telekinesis option with a duration of Instantaneous.

Oh yeah... Was the 3.0 version of the spell different there?

No, it was not.

MONEY! UNLIMITED MONEY!!

(I also find it odd that only slashing weapons care about it being a cloud. And then there's what Beni says: this is probably the only bad creature in the game that actually and literally can, by RAW, pay for one redusing it to a playable heap of numbers.)

[CENTER]Razor Golem

But hey, at least it doesn't go Berserk.

Slam is probably the most common natural weapon.

Huh. I was absolutely certain that's claws.

[Tzardok]

Claws are also a candidate for most common, but I think all those giants, humanoid constructs, oozes, basic undead and humanoid plants give Slams an edge (still bludgeoning. You know what I mean).

[Beni-Kujaku]

Claws are also a candidate for most common, but I think all those giants, humanoid constructs, oozes, basic undead and humanoid plants give Slams an edge (still bludgeoning. You know what I mean).

In my monster spreadsheet (with detailed informations about all monsters from the books covered by the LA thread, including all MM6 monsters and unique creatures), I find roughly (there are some counting quirks, but it should be pretty accurate) 242 creatures with slams, 309 creatures with claws, and a whopping 443 creatures with bite attacks. Many animals, Magical Beasts and other things with no clawed arms but still with a mouth have it as their only or main weapon.

[Metastachydium]

Huh. That's… Actually sound fair enough. Not that it'd save the Razor Golem from CCHDS (Chronic Construct Hit Dice Syndrome), of course.

[loky1109]

I think it should get an asterisk, if only for the variability in the monster's power level. The problem is not the increase in number of HD (which is not possible after creation), but the reduction (which is). It is explicitly possible to spend the gold in your gold golem, reducing its HD by up to 4. So in the end, if this quirk isn't asterisked, the Gold Golem can be a 6 RHD golem with an added 40k gp, which is 3 times as much as the WBL at level 6, and almost as much as the WBL at level 10. Doubling your WBL is really a game changer, and the main reason why artificers are good in the first place.

I even didn't think about WBL abuse. But I thought about decreasing starting ECL from 10 to 6 because, y'know, less construct HD - better.

[Debatra]

Sardorian Golem

Size & Type: Large Construct
Space/Reach: 10'/5'
HD: 30, 51 Huge, 71 Gargantuan
Speed: 30', Fly 60' (Clumsy)
Ability Scores: Str +20, Dex +0, Con -, Int -, Wis +2, Cha +4 - Net +26, no penalties
Natural Armor: 26
Natural Weapons: One Primary Bite (2d6), two Secondary Claws (1d8), two Secondary Wings (1d6), one Secondary Tail Slap (1d8)
Skill List: N/A
Body Shape: Dragon
Speech (Languages): No (Understands Commands of its Creator)
CR: 15
WotC LA: -
Our LA: -0

Hey, this one's Epic! That must mean it's really powerful, right? ...Right?

So, it's a Dragon Golem. Specifically, one in the image of Sardior, the dragon god of night, psionics, and secrets. If I were Sardior, I'd probably get some good smiting in on the people responsible for this.

DR 15/magic and adamantium, alongside the standard golem immunity to magic. And also explicitly psionics, for those without default transparancy. Unlike other golems, this one has no exceptions to its immunity.

It also has a 1/1d4 rounds breath weapon, dealing 9d8 each of fire and force damage in a 40' cone, with a Charisma-based reflex save for half and to avoid 1d4 rounds of blindness. It can opt for the force damage to be nonlethal.

What, you were hoping for more for your 30RHD? Ha, these are golems!

[danielxcutter]

…Question, are these even strong for their CR? Though I suppose magic immunity isn’t bad.

[Beni-Kujaku]

…Question, are these even strong for their CR? Though I suppose magic immunity isn’t bad.

They look slightly weak, but not aggravatingly so. Golems are a pain to destroy without kiting them and are immune to most ranged attacks, which makes a golem with flying speed a big hassle. Additionally, an 18d8 breath weapon that also blinds the opponents is absolutely a threat, and can definitely drop a level 12 spellcaster (14 Con, d6 HD, 68 HP against an 81 average damage breath), and even 2-shot unoptimized level 15 martials (d10 HP, 20 Con, 162 HP). The natural weapons are not that good, but there are six of them with enough Str and HD to almost certainly hit (62 total damage against melee opponents). If it had intelligence and feats, I'd say it would be a good CR 15. As it is now, maybe 13, but now much below that.

Additionally, this is definitely a 3.5 monster, but it still has the full magic and supernatural immunity, despite its psionic immunity clearly being the 3.5 version, which makes me think it may be intended, and makes the monster much better (in the same way a Wyrm is better than a Colossal monstrous vermin, clearly not in a "worth LA+0" way).

Also, wow that picture is badass. Good find Debatra.

[danielxcutter]

Honestly not immediately folding to flight and ranged attacks alone probably makes it not a total pushover. Way too many high CR things do.

[InvisibleBison]

I wouldn't get too excited about the sardorian golem having a fly speed. Clumsy maneuverability is really bad. A creature with good or even average maneuverability would be able to fly circles around the golem and could keep out of its melee range effectively indefinitely by just flying straight up.