New UA: Wonders of the Multiverse!

[Ortho]

Is it clear that there are 52 cards in this deck? You're assuming they mean the French-suited playing cards common in our world, but even in our world there's the German/Swiss-suited deck (32 or 36 cards) and the Spanish/Italian-suited deck (40 or 48 cards). And even the French decks often include two Joker cards, which would bring the total to 54. Most of the thematics around the card-based spells reference the Deck of Many Things, which has 13, 22 or 23 (?) cards in it. Could a Vistani character use a tarokka deck for this?

Heck, if we go by Magic: the Gathering rules, you can have a deck of at least 200 cards.

[diplomancer]

Then the feat is probably not good enough. The d4 of damage is annoying with the focus aspect (that should be fixed so report it) and rather useless outside of the magic missile cheese, the second bullet is not good, and the third would then be a glorified quicken/subtle once per day. Meh, I'd take the metamagic feat every day over that.

Now you could probably make it for prof number of cards, which would then make the feat really good. I don't know, its a tough balance act.

I do suspect you are correct and that is their intention though, which would put it in line with almost all of the other crappy feats in the UA (other than one or two of the revised giant feats, which are ok mechanically)

Ome free slot a day that increases in level as you level up is quite good; that it is also Subtle and Quickened makes it even better. Sufficient for a Feat, I'd say, so it's not surprising that the other benefits of the Feat are more ribbony, though still good ribbons.

[JadedDM]

Well, in Dragon Lance it's also making casters sign up for a tower to avoid being hunted and persecuted for daring to learn magic when not part of the system.

I'm like 90% sure that 5E Dragonlance won't include the Test (if they do include it, it will be optional or decidedly non-lethal) or a requirement to join the Orders for spellcasters. They're already retconning that sorcerers (which will apparently exist during the WotL) and warlocks and bards can join, so I suspect they'll be retconning some other stuff, too. So no more Renegades.

[Hael]

Ome free slot a day that increases in level as you level up is quite good; that it is also Subtle and Quickened makes it even better. Sufficient for a Feat, I'd say, so it's not surprising that the other benefits of the Feat are more ribbony, though still good ribbons.

Yea so I mean that depends on how you read the word ‘imbue’. It seems to me you cast the spell into the card, so you don’t actually get that free slot. It would be good indeed if it was free.

[Kenny_Snoggins]

Meh, I'd take the metamagic feat every day over that.

Why? In the worst, harshest interpretation of the rule it's still flat out better than metamagic adept. Worst case you're getting two metamagic effects applied to a free spell of up to 6th level. Already better than metamagic before you consider what a federal reserve style money printer the deck could be gambling over cards or the bump to spell attack damage.

That's worst case. Best case... yeah I would opt for the Costco extra value size ring of subtle quickened spell storing (that RAW doesnt even say you lose the slot that charges the card... so zero opportunity cost just free spells for a rainy day) over applying the exact same effects to one spell you have to use a slot on.

Plus, a metamagic adept can't be at a tavern with some lowlife kingpin you need to take out and start doing cardistry to warm up the crowd then ask him "Is this your card?" And make his head explode with one bonus action.

[Sigreid]

I'm like 90% sure that 5E Dragonlance won't include the Test (if they do include it, it will be optional or decidedly non-lethal) or a requirement to join the Orders for spellcasters. They're already retconning that sorcerers (which will apparently exist during the WotL) and warlocks and bards can join, so I suspect they'll be retconning some other stuff, too. So no more Renegades.

Then as much as I don't care for those things, it could be argued that it's not Dragon Lance, but Dragon Lance adjacent.

[JadedDM]

Then as much as I don't care for those things, it could be argued that it's not Dragon Lance, but Dragon Lance adjacent.

I'd agree, and technically speaking, it's true. They are reclassifying the old Dragonlance as 'Classic Dragonlance.' I guess they're meant to be alternate timelines now, something akin to the Prime and Kelvin timelines of Star Trek.

[diplomancer]

Yea so I mean that depends on how you read the word ‘imbue’. It seems to me you cast the spell into the card, so you don’t actually get that free slot. It would be good indeed if it was free.

I may be mistaken, but I believe there are three other similar features in the game:
1- Ring of Spell Storing
2- Arcane Abeyance (from Chronurgist Wizard)
3- Spell Storing Item (from Artificer)

The first two explicitly mention that the spell is cast, and the third one says you "store a spell in it", but does not mention casting the spell to do so, and I believe the common reading for the 3rd one is that there is no need to use a spell slot for the feature.

So I'd be inclined to follow the same logic. If they wanted the slot to be spent, they'd use the word "cast" at some point, like "you cast a spell into the card, imbuing it...".

[Envyus]

Hope that they don't backdate the background to all get feats, they simply don't need them. The new ones with feats are nothing special for having them, sure minmaxers are going to flock to them for that smidge of mechanical increase but overall they are just another option that may or may not fit your character.

Nah I hope they do Background feats are cool.

[Hael]

Why? In the worst, harshest interpretation of the rule it's still flat out better than metamagic adept..

Metamagic does similar things. Extended/subtle is fantastic b/c it allows you to essentially trade off downtime spellslots. So eg extended foresight/mindblank is like getting a free 9th and 8th lvl slot the following day. Then the subtle component on the adventuring day is useable on 2 spells of your choice, whenever you want compared to the predetermined card. That's definitely better IMO than the harsh interpretation. (you can think of quicken like the spell + the dodge action or a cantrip).

Now the full 52 deck ring of spell storing interpretation of course blows the above away.

[Khrysaes]

I took another look at cartomancer. Oh man is it badly worded.

“One spell you know” how does this affexr wizards that dont “know” their spells?

“Imbue it into a card” it doesnt say anything about using a spell slot.

“A card” any card? Doesnt say anything about a number of cards being limited. Just one per long rest.

And there is no tine limit on the cards. So they just last forever?

[noob]

Interesting hmm maybe 5.5 human can now start with two backgrounds if feats are tied to backgrounds. This will probably be strong enough to allow them to fit into the new ASI paradigms of +2/+1 or 3x +1, without any other racial features.

Will possibly allow fun combinations like "beggar king"(already exists in fiction so it is probably intended) or "sailor farmhand" or "orphan orphan"(who knows what orphan orphan is but look they forgot on line 234 to specify that you could not pick the same background multiple times)

[AvvyR]

Did anyone else notice that despite being constructs, Glitchlings lack most construct traits? They have that advantage vs. charm, but are fully susceptible to poison, disease, and sleep. They have to eat/drink/breathe as normal, and need to sleep like humans.

Both Warforged (who don't have the construct type), and the UA Autognome (who do) have a racial feature addressing these traits. It's just very weird.

[werescythe]

You know what we need? An official canine player race. We don't have 1 and yet we have two cat races, two (three with glitchling) machine races and three bird races, not to mention both sea elves and tritons, yet we have no canine race. What's up with that?

In previous editions we had the Lupine race. Why can't we bring that back?

Well, that's one of the comments I made in the survey.

[Psyren]

You know what we need? An official canine player race. We don't have 1 and yet we have two cat races, two (three with glitchling) machine races and three bird races, not to mention both sea elves and tritons, yet we have no canine race. What's up with that?

In previous editions we had the Lupine race. Why can't we bring that back?

Well, that's one of the comments I made in the survey.

While I want Lupins back too, you can make a canine shifter while you wait at least

[Millstone85]

Did anyone else notice that despite being constructs, Glitchlings lack most construct traits?

Not only have I missed that but I only now realize that so do the modrons in the MM.

I guess they have organic parts as the illustrations would suggest. Disappointing.

[strangebloke]

Terrible

Still hate background feats. The whole point of backgrounds was to give a customization point that wasn't tied to mechanics. The only place this ends is with silly character backstories about how this random warforged was a giant foundling or whatever. Just give people a feat at first level geez.

hate the new cleric. What a bunch of pointless features. The first ability seems okay, you can use it to heal a little bit, but boy is that kind of bland for a FATE cleric. Spells are boring. CD uses concentration? What is this? Plus it pollutes the "easy ways to get advantage" pool.

Glitchling is just blatantly overpowered. I don't hate the new direction they've gone with races entirely, but its really annoying that I can't even tell you if this thing is a modron or an inevitable. But its also ridiculously overpowered. Bleh.

Most of these feats recycling the prof/lr mechanic is annoying. Just because something is tied to a resource doesn't mean its balanced.

Take Agent of Order and compare it to trip attack for example. Trip attack is one of the better maneuvers. This half feat gives you trip attack prof/LR except you also get to keep them restrained on their turn, (and all of your allies' turns) and you can pick anything to base the saving throw on. Even dexterity! This basically stunning strike! On a half-feat!

And what's the flavor here? What am I, the character, doing? When did my barbarian learn to magically restrain people?

Cartomancer is actually pretty fun? Hidden Ace seems OP but its 1/day so meh.

[Segev]

Terrible

Still hate background feats. The whole point of backgrounds was to give a customization point that wasn't tied to mechanics

Not sure that's true. Backgrounds have always given a feature and skills.

[Damon_Tor]

Not sure that's true. Backgrounds have always given a feature and skills.

Sure, but the features rarely had any mechanical impact on the combat axis. They've only been relevant to the social/exploration axes until they started using that space to do expanded spell lists for the MTG settings.

[Psyren]

The only place this ends is with silly character backstories about how this random warforged was a giant foundling or whatever.

That concept sounds awesome to me actually! And he could be skilled at smithing their giant weapons, utensils etc because he can stay up all night doing it, so their community likes keeping him around until the adventure starts.

Just give people a feat at first level geez.

I ultimately agree with this point, but I like this version because if you package a free feat into every background including the old ones you ultimately get to the same place, just in a more controlled fashion (i.e. you don't have everyone making a beeline for PAM or XBE or FT as their starting feat if those aren't on the list, but it more easily encourages DMs who want a higher-powered game to allow those.)

It's also friendlier for new groups since they aren't handed every feat list in core (and possibly splat) to dig through for their first feat - they only have to look at the much smaller list for the background(s) they're interested in.

Most of these feats recycling the prof/lr mechanic is annoying. Just because something is tied to a resource doesn't mean its balanced.

Take Agent of Order and compare it to trip attack for example. Trip attack is one of the better maneuvers. This half feat gives you trip attack prof/LR except you also get to keep them restrained on their turn, (and all of your allies' turns) and you can pick anything to base the saving throw on. Even dexterity! This basically stunning strike! On a half-feat!

And what's the flavor here? What am I, the character, doing? When did my barbarian learn to magically restrain people?

I'm not necessarily against you on the power concern (though I will point out that feats with prereqs are indeed allowed to spike above the feat power curve) - but fluffwise the concept is sound, you picked up a bit of law-plane magic via exposure, technique, spirits/ancestors etc.

Also, unlike stunning strike you only get one use of this per turn, whereas SS you can attempt as many times as you have attacks and ki. And PB/LR is a lot less than level/SR too. Ki is competing for a lot more stuff but I don't think it's fair to say this is equivalent or better. Rather, the issue with Stunning Strike is that you have to be a monk to access it, and that's not the feat system's fault.

Cartomancer is actually pretty fun? Hidden Ace seems OP but its 1/day so meh.

Cartomancer is fun but without a duration or ceiling you can really break daily resources with some downtime. That needs to be addressed.

[strangebloke]

Not sure that's true. Backgrounds have always given a feature and skills.

Relatively small ones to the point that it was mostly irrelevant to 'build' and most people recommended just picking whatever background you thought was most interesting.

The closest to an OP background were sailor (because perception) and urchin (because thieve's tools)

That concept sounds awesome to me actually! And he could be skilled at smithing their giant weapons, utensils etc because he can stay up all night doing it, so their community likes keeping him around until the adventure starts.

For sure!

The devil is in the details though, and I wouldn't want someone approaching that concept because they felt they had to for their build. I think all background bonuses should fungible. That is to say, its mostly a question of taste. Maybe one background gives longswords and another gives battleax's for example.

I ultimately agree with this point, but I like this version because if you package a free feat into every background including the old ones you ultimately get to the same place, just in a more controlled fashion (i.e. you don't have everyone making a beeline for PAM or XBE or FT as their starting feat if those aren't on the list, but it more easily encourages DMs who want a higher-powered game to allow those.)

PAM or GWM or whatever at first level isn't a real problem. T1 goes by really fast in normal play and being OP in T1 is just whatever. GWM/PAM/SS/CBE aren't actually overpowered anyway. And you never need multiple splats anyway

I'm not necessarily against you on the power concern (though I will point out that feats with prereqs are indeed allowed to spike above the feat power curve) - but fluffwise the concept is sound, you picked up a bit of law-plane magic via exposure, technique, spirits/ancestors etc.

Also, unlike stunning strike you only get one use of this per turn, whereas SS you can attempt as many times as you have attacks and ki. And PB/LR is a lot less than level/SR too. Ki is competing for a lot more stuff but I don't think it's fair to say this is equivalent or better. Rather, the issue with Stunning Strike is that you have to be a monk to access it, and that's not the feat system's fault.

The pre-req is a background, which furthers my other complaint (need to be an outer planes gatewarden to get guidance and then agent of order - however appealing or unappealing that actual concept is to me or however much sense it makes in setting.) It's powerful content that places really strict fluff requirements. Imagine if something like sharpshooter was contingent on your character being cursed by growing up in a cult to an outer god or something. Lots of people would want to take that feat, and lots of people would pick that specific background even when it made little sense.

And yeah I also don't like that its once per turn, actually. Conventionally on-hit riders are good for martials because of extra attack, and this changes that, making an on-hit rider that's more or less equally good for everyone (slightly better for martials because of increased hit chance.)

[Psyren]

PAM or GWM or whatever at first level isn't a real problem. T1 goes by really fast in normal play and being OP in T1 is just whatever. GWM/PAM/SS/CBE aren't actually overpowered anyway. And you never need multiple splats anyway

Point but still - there are feats I wouldn't mind always requiring GM approval for swappage nonetheless.

The pre-req is a background, which furthers my other complaint (need to be an outer planes gatewarden to get guidance and then agent of order - however appealing or unappealing that actual concept is to me or however much sense it makes in setting.) It's powerful content that places really strict fluff requirements. Imagine if something like sharpshooter was contingent on your character being cursed by growing up in a cult to an outer god or something. Lots of people would want to take that feat, and lots of people would pick that specific background even when it made little sense.

Actually no, the prereq is a feat. So it IS accessible to everyone, it's just that the Planar Philosopher or Gate Warden backgrounds get a head start. If those truly don't match your concept, then you have to wait a bit longer to be an Agent of Order, but you can still be one.

Not to mention - given that the Elemental Scion feats are freely swappable into any of the featless backgrounds, I don't think it would be a big stretch to let you do the same with Outer Planes Scion too, if you really don't want PP/GW.

And yeah I also don't like that its once per turn, actually. Conventionally on-hit riders are good for martials because of extra attack, and this changes that, making an on-hit rider that's more or less equally good for everyone (slightly better for martials because of increased hit chance.)

It's not equally good for everyone - even if you can only apply it once per turn, more chances to hit means more opportunities to do so. Better still, once you land the restrain on them then all the rest of your attacks get advantage, so saying multiple attacks aren't rewarded or even that they're rewarded less doesn't really gel for me.

[Arkhios]

A bit late to the show, but anyway... I'm really really really disappointed if that Rune Carver Apprentice from this UA is intended to replace the version from Giant Options UA!

[Ortho]

PAM or GWM or whatever at first level isn't a real problem. T1 goes by really fast in normal play and being OP in T1 is just whatever. GWM/PAM/SS/CBE aren't actually overpowered anyway.

I'll go one further and say that GWM/SS at first level is undesirable. -5 to hit really hurts when you only had +5 to hit in the first place, and +10 damage is just overkill when the things you're fighting only have 20 hit points anyways.

[diplomancer]

I'll go one further and say that GWM/SS at first level is undesirable. -5 to hit really hurts when you only had +5 to hit in the first place, and +10 damage is just overkill when the things you're fighting only have 20 hit points anyways.

Having played a bit now with a SS variant human ranger, I disagree; not only because of the other features of the SS feat, which are always useful, but because you still get to choose when to use the -5+10; fighting goblinoids (with their notoriously high AC)? don't do it. Fighting zombies? Knock yourself out, you're gonna need all that damage to make the save DC high enough so that the zombies won't come back.

[stoutstien]

Having played a bit now with a SS variant human ranger, I disagree; not only because of the other features of the SS feat, which are always useful, but because you still get to choose when to use the -5+10; fighting goblinoids (with their notoriously high AC)? don't do it. Fighting zombies? Knock yourself out, you're gonna need all that damage to make the save DC high enough so that the zombies won't come back.

Win more logic. Most of the low CR HP sponges are also slow and have limited ranged options so while SS -/+ might win faster in those situations it rarely means more wins. take those zombies for example. Who cares if the undead fortitude triggers of they are so slow and mindless you can safely destroy them at minimal risk. Even the best stocks are better off just backing up and tossing improved objects at them unless time is of the essence then you have fire or whatnot.yhe only time where low lv -/+ shines is something like a brown bear but without the attack count to back it up it's a gamble. You could end the challenge a turn sooner...or make it longer. With the output of that particular NPC I think I would take the safer option. getting below it's situational HP threshold (when it will change tactics due to HP loss) is more important than anything else.

[strangebloke]

Point but still - there are feats I wouldn't mind always requiring GM approval for swappage nonetheless.

If that's what you want, this isn't it. What they've shown here is an approved list of first level feats - mostly tied to specific backgrounds. What you're saying now is there should be a banned list of first level feats.

and again... which feats? The only on that's truly game-breakingly overpowered at level one is Heavy Armor Master.

A bit late to the show, but anyway... I'm really really really disappointed if that Rune Carver Apprentice from this UA is intended to replace the version from Giant Options UA!

Agreed. Other version had a spark of life. This is incredibly bland.

Win more logic. Most of the low CR HP sponges are also slow and have limited ranged options so while SS -/+ might win faster in those situations it rarely means more wins. take those zombies for example. Who cares if the undead fortitude triggers of they are so slow and mindless you can safely destroy them at minimal risk. Even the best stocks are better off just backing up and tossing improved objects at them unless time is of the essence then you have fire or whatnot.yhe only time where low lv -/+ shines is something like a brown bear but without the attack count to back it up it's a gamble. You could end the challenge a turn sooner...or make it longer. With the output of that particular NPC I think I would take the safer option. getting below it's situational HP threshold (when it will change tactics due to HP loss) is more important than anything else.

Yup. Though to be fair this is one of those things that changes heavily depending on the conditions of the game. If your DM's idea of a super-deadly encounter at level one is several ogres, then sure, sharpshooter is great because you can whittle down their hp and outrange them. If your DM likes using packs of orcs and hobgoblins (like me - I use those statblocks even when they're actually elves or whatever) then sharpshooter is pretty useless.

[Psyren]

If that's what you want, this isn't it. What they've shown here is an approved list of first level feats - mostly tied to specific backgrounds. What you're saying now is there should be a banned list of first level feats.

Approved list, banned list, two sides of the same coin. Not seeing the issue. If they end up making it so you can swap any feat with no prereqs into any background (or make a custom background with a prereqless feat of your choice) I doubt it'll break anything.

and again... which feats? The only on that's truly game-breakingly overpowered at level one is Heavy Armor Master.

This assumes that "game-breakingly overpowered" should be their only consideration/standard when determining what level 1 feats to allow. I suspect it's not.

[strangebloke]

Approved list, banned list, two sides of the same coin. Not seeing the issue. If they end up making it so you can swap any feat with no prereqs into any background (or make a custom background with a prereqless feat of your choice) I doubt it'll break anything.

Its obviously and massively different because of how it relates to new and old content.

This assumes that "game-breakingly overpowered" should be their only consideration/standard when determining what level 1 feats to allow. I suspect it's not.

you're assuming they have a logic at all. I see none on display whatsoever. As you say yourself there's no reason the scion of the outer planes feat shouldn't be subbable, but it isn't.

[Psyren]

Its obviously and massively different because of how it relates to new and old content.

Sure, but without seeing how the old backgrounds get changed for this new system there's no way to tell which will be the better approach just yet. My point is, the house isn't on fire, let's all take a breath.

you're assuming they have a logic at all. I see none on display whatsoever. As you say yourself there's no reason the scion of the outer planes feat shouldn't be subbable, but it isn't.

*shrug*