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-
2022-07-26, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Monster Mash #4
This competition is for monstrous adventurers, in part to experiment with the possibilities they offer and in part to make use of the revised level adjustments which Inevitability and Debatra have spent five years assigning.
Adventurers designed for this contest must be of a monstrous race. For the purpose of this contest, “monstrous race” excludes all races designed for PC use, unless their level adjustment has been increased by one or more templates.
“Monstrous race” is a somewhat vague category, by necessity. No simple set of rules can exclude every single PC race without also excluding some genuine monsters. Entries which flout this rule with borderline-monstrous races risk a penalty to their Monstrosity score.
For the purpose of this competition, all races use the modified level adjustments listed in the LA Assignment Archive. Races with a -0 level adjustment are treated as if they had a +0 level adjustment. Monsters not rated at the time an entry is submitted may not be used.
Some races' level adjustments include asterisks. These monsters have traits which render them unsuitable for PC use, such as a wight’s spawn creation, a dryad’s tree dependency, or a genie’s wishes; check the linked posts in the archive. For the purpose of this contest, those races do not possess those traits. In cases where it's unclear which traits are removed, please contact the chair for clarification.
Round Theme: Monsters in the Darkness
As in horror movies, a monster is that much more effective if people don't expect it, if it hides in the shadows to strike the finishing blow.
- The monster character must end up with at least Sneak Attack +5d6 or Death Attack.
- The initial monster race or template chosen need not give either of these abilities.
To note: Sneak Attack works with spells and other abilities only if they require attack rolls, and once per such attack roll.
Contestants
You will need to present a full build for your entry, from its first level to level 20. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played in a real game.
Traditionally participants in similar competitions give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. Depending on the monstrous race chosen, your character may be unavailable at lower levels; in that case, instead give snapshots at various levels where it is playable. These snapshots should be roughly evenly distributed among what levels it is available at.
Spoiler: Sources and General Rules
32 point-buy is the presumed creation method.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.
If the monster you're cooking with has no intelligence, or an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, consider the intelligence as 3 (-8 racial modifier). It still retains any immunity to mind-affecting abilities it may have.
Competitors will be free to use any official 1st party (WotC) 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Unupdated 3.0 materials, as well as web exclusives by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion.
Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition.
Specific bans:
Any material that grants you leadership without you specifically taking it should be ignored and may not be traded away for another feat or ACF. Any variant of Leadership, such as Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort are likewise banned. Wild Cohort and Obtain Familiar are allowed. If you are not sure if a specific feat violates the 'no leadership' rule, err on the side of caution, or ask me.
However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.
Because this contest involves creating a build up to level 20, no race with a base ECL higher than 20 is allowed.
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party).
The Illithid Savant and Beholder Mage prestige classes are specifically banned due to their extreme potential for abuse.
Judging
Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Monstrosity.
Scores of zero may be applied in cases of exceptional misconduct (plagiarism earns a 0 in Originality, failure to meet prerequisites earns a 0 in Elegance, non-monstrous races earn a 0 in Monstrosity, etc); otherwise, all entries should receive at least one full point in each category.
- Originality: Is it unexpected or novel?
- Power: Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
- Elegance: Is it mechanically straighforward or “pretty”?
- Monstrosity: Is the monstrous character’s race used?
Spoiler: Precisions on Elegance and MonstrosityElegance and Monstrosity demand further elaboration.
Elegance measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept.
A legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using conflicting setting material may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Monstrosity measures how necessary the entry’s monster race was to the submission. We want to build monstrous adventurers here, not standard Iron Chef builds with a few racial hit dice at the start. Builds which could not function without the monstrous features of their race earn high Monstrosity scores, while builds which could work on any PC race with no changes will take Monstrosity penalties. Builds using non-monstrous races will also take penalties to Monstrosity. For rounds with specific restrictions on the monster race, this category will also include making good use of the mandatory component.
Presentation
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
[th][B]1st[/B][/th]
[th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
[th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
[th][B]4th[/B][/th]
[th][B]5th[/B][/th]
[th][B]6th[/B][/th]
[th][B]7th[/B][/th]
[th][B]8th[/B][/th]
[th][B]9th[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Alternatively, you may use this spreadsheet created by mattie_p.
For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list or table.
Speculation
Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.
Deadlines
Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Tuesday 23rd of August to create their builds and PM them to the chair. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 GMT Tuesday 6th of September to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. Deadlines are subject to extension as/if required.
Submission
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:
PM: Beni-Kujaku
Subject: Monster Mash #, Name of your Entry
For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mailbox.
More questions? Either ask in the thread or PM me with Monster Mash Questions in the header. Please use PMs for any questions relating to a specific build to avoid violating rules against speculation.
Houserules/Clarifications
D&D 3.5 is far from a perfect system, and inflated level adjustments are far from the only example of this. Many rules are ambiguous, absent, or just badly-written. I make no claim to fixing the system, but feel some “house rules” are in order:
Spoiler
- Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
- All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
- Monsters with racial hit dice may gain an additional hit die instead of taking a character level. This functions as advancing a monster this way would under other circumstances. You cannot advance any monster beyond the maximum number of racial hit dice noted in its Advancement entry. You can advance that way before, after, or in-between taking actual class levels.
- The DC of a monster's supernatural ability is 10+1/2 number of Hit Dice+mod. This includes class levels.
- Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
- Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons.
- Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
- Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.
- Possessing innate spellcasting from your race is treated as a spellcasting class for the purposes of prestige classes which provide new spells per day, an increase in caster level, and spells known (if applicable) as if you had gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.
Previous Competitions:
MM1: Back to Basics
MM2: Scary Monsters
MM3: Keep your monsters close, and your enemies closer
And now, time to get mashing!Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-07-27 at 03:37 AM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
-
2022-07-26, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Q&A for this round:
-Do Skirmish and other similar abilities like the ninja's Sudden Strike fulfill the comp requirements?
No, they don't. For the purpose of this comp, only sneak attack qualifies.
Spoiler: List of monsters fulfilling the requirement by ECL
(LA -0 are asterisked)
Immediately qualifies:
4: Past Life Template (Rogue)
12: Rakshasa Naztharune
16: Abyssal Ghoul
19: Shadow Giant
Has sneak attack but less than 5d6:
2: Necrophidius (2d6)
3: Dark Ones (Creeper, 2d6), Shadar-Kai (1d6), Derro* (1d6)
4: Splinterwaif (2d6), Vultivor (Canomorph, 2d6), Dark Ones (Stalker, 3d6), Vorr (2d6), Skleroloth (1d6)
5: Spriggan (3d6)
6: Knave Splinterwaif (2d6), Thorn (2d6)
8: Babau (2d6)
9: Naityan Rakshasa (1d6), Witchknife* (2d6)
12: Astral Stalker (2d6), Visage* (4d6)
13: Kelubar (4d6), Rilmani Cuprilach (3d6)
There are impressively few creatures with sneak attack that were given LA-0.
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-08-04 at 01:57 AM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-08-03, 10:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
It's been quite calm around here... Do we have any contestants?
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-08-04, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
I'm almost done cooking.
Had a lot of fun exploring this part of the rules I was shaky on.
Hope I won't get first place by forfeit...
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2022-08-05, 05:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
I didn't start yet, but I have some ideas.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-08-05, 05:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
I'm exploring a few ideas, but I haven't yet hit that piece of inspiration that insists that I need to make a competition build.
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2022-08-05, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Alas I am still on vacation doing vacation stuff, and phone doesn't lend itself much to research and making a table and so on, so I'm sitting this one out, despite having a clear idea of what I would have made
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2022-08-05, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-08-06, 07:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
This seems interesting! Might submit a build.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Come join the new Junkyard Wars and build with SLAs and a breath weapon!
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2022-08-08, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Beni, would you express your opinion (as a chair) (if appropriate at all) on favored class for those creatures that don't have any listed in their stat blocks?
I'm ok for it to be "up to the judge", of course, but I'd like to know it going in instead of be a guessing game :)
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2022-08-08, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Monster Manual 1 states that all monsters have a second favored class on top of their monster class. I'm not sure where I read that‚ but I distinctly remember reading somewhere that the DM should assign favored classes to monsters based on what class is the most appropriate for the monster.
I think it's fair to say that in an optimization competition‚ the classes you're choosing are appropriate for your monster class. Hence‚ I personnally consider that monster characters have favored class: Any (any one). Note that it doesn't change the fact that you could lose Elegance on a dip-heavy build.Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-08-10, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
If a template adds a racial bonus to a skill, does it also become "in class" for the racial hit dice it may have?
Last edited by ciopo; 2022-08-10 at 02:38 PM.
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2022-08-10, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-08-21, 09:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Partly posting so anyone who might be interested is alerted before the contest is over.
Mostly posting because I can't find a "watch thread" button.
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2022-08-22, 12:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
I have recieved an ask for an extension. The new deadline will be next tuesday instead‚ the 30th of August‚ 23h59 GMT.
Everyone‚ do your best!Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-08-22, 03:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
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2022-08-23, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
I have received the builds from the person asking for an extension. Is there anybody still cooking out there? If not, the reveal will take place tomorrow evening or thursday.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-08-24, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Not many dare to speak his name. Some just call him « the Dark One », « the Stalker », « the Reaper », or even « Mr. Stabby ». But you can call him… Jack.
Originally Posted by Jack the ReaperResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-08-24, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
A giant assassin bird. I’m really glad it doesn’t fly, I can’t imagine a worse fate than being Death Attacked via bird droppings.
Originally Posted by BudgeeResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-08-24, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
For once, WotC attributed a sensible LA to a creature with more than 2HD. I, for one, am looking forward to see how it fares against forum-attributed-LA’d creatures.
Originally Posted by SalimResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-08-24, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Great introduction, nice supporting cast and good magic system, 10/10 can’t wait for the anime to air in the west !
Spoiler: Spoiler for manga-only readersThe gelatinous cube is the best girl
Originally Posted by ShogosuResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-08-24, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Translation be damned, sometimes, Mercury is still a better color than Red if you want to be a rouge.
Originally Posted by SeriyuResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-08-24, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
The Snatcher is asking for copyright for his catchphrase. And for your soul, but that’s more of a long-term goal.
Vasuthants can’t speak ? Doesn't matter, evil monologues always get a pass.
Originally Posted by LiteralResurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-08-24, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
And here we are! Six great and sneaky entries for your reading and judging pleasure!
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-08-25, 03:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
I love the gibbering mouther
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2022-08-25, 04:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Table.
Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Total Place Jack the Reaper CE Dark stalker Beast heart adept 1/Crinti shadow marauder 5/Hit and Run Dirty Fighter 1/Hellbreaker 4/Mimic Wilderness Penetrating Strike Disruptive Attack Adventurer Rogue 4/Swordsage 1 Budgee NE Achaierai Assassin 10/Fist of the Forest 3/Druidic Avenger Huntsman Druid 1 Salim NE Marrulurk Hit and Run Fighter 1/Swordsage 2/Assassin 1/Unseen Seer 7/Telflammar Shadowlord 5 Shogosu CG Aggressive Quick Advanced Past Life Gibbering Mouther Unarmed Swordsage 8/Bloodclaw Master 2 Seriyu CG Wyrm of War Mercury Dragon Wyrmling Scout 3/Swordsage 2/Death's Ruin Uncanny Bravery Rogue 10 Literal NE Shadow Vasuthant Incarnate 1/Hit and Run Dirty Fighter 1/Unarmed Swordsage 1/Spell Reflection Penetrating Strike Rogue 13 Last edited by loky1109; 2022-09-16 at 05:38 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-08-25, 04:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-08-25, 04:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
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If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-08-26, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
Do we have any judge here?
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-09-01, 08:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash IV: Monsters in the Darkness
I've got a build I didn't assemble enough to submit.
Spoiler: All the sneak attack dice
Splinterwaif 4/Rogue 3/Fighter (Sneak Attack) 1/Assassin 1/Guild Thief 1/Justiciar of Talia 1/Master of Masks 1/Nightsong Enforcer 1/Peerless Archer 1/Ronin 1/Shadow Thief of Amn 1 with the Past Life (Rogue) NPC trait and…one level in Spellthief or Psychic Rogue, for a total sneak attack bonus of +18d6 (17d6 on melee attacks). Who needs Death Attack when you can add about 60 damage to a splinterspit and a few arrows, fired at either an unsuspecting target or one bound by brambles?
(I believe Psychic Rogue is technically its own class, not a Rogue variant, but taking it and Rogue is still cheesy and inelegant. On the other hand, Spellthief doesn’t provide much to the build, since its signature ability A. requires deducting Sneak Attack dice and B. sucks.)
Camouflage and Call Bramble both work to deny targets Dexterity bonuses, which is necessary for ranged sneak attacks. A source of greater invisibility would be great, of course, and normal invisibility provides more mobility than hiding, but neither is necessary.
One notable “trick” I wanted to call attention to: Justiciar of Talia gives a bonus weapon proficiency feat, which can be Exotic Weapon Proficiency. (But not Martial.) Ronin requires proficiency with bastard swords, an exotic weapon. Boom! Weird prestige class bonus, matched with inconvenient prerequisite.
I even came up with a convoluted backstory for this character! The gist is that a plant somehow absorbed the essence of a local hunter, a soldier from a nearby town, and a thief from the big city.