New Games of Thrones TV Series Premieres on Sunday

[warty goblin]

Caught back up. I liked Episode 2 a lot, was a rather lukewarm on 3. The bridge confrontation in 2 was excellent; it had some tension, and used the more fantastic elements to emphasize and upscale the drama really well.

I rather liked the hunting portions of 3 (though wild boar don't work that way!), I think the contrast the show is trying to draw between being a good man and a good king, and the potential non-existance of the latter are rather interesting. The battle at the end was out of place though. In a different, more heroically pitched show it would have worked fine, but GoT is too gritty a universe for that kind of stunt.

As I said before, this is about the only streaming show I've seen that has actually interesting cinematography. It's not exactly complex, but it understands that juxtaposition and contrast and visual metaphor are things it can use to tell a story. It makes it actually worth watching as film, and I really appreciate that about it.

[KorvinStarmast]

Episode 4

Spoiler: Ep 4 stuff

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1. Like the mini redemption scene with Daemon.
2. Liked the sword fight as suitors are ignored by princess who is fed up with the whole scene.
3. Not sure why the dragon flew over the ship such that the princess bumped her head.
4. Pervy Uncle sequence: that was a bit much.
5. Seduce hunky bodyguard sequence: worked well enough.
6. Alicent's scenes are all ripe with potential and yet they seem to not quite get there. A pity, since the actress is handling the role IMO pretty well.
7. Friction between Alicent and Princess seemed a bit stilted. That had so much potential for rich dialogue; an opportunity lost.
8. "You're Fired" scene for the Hand was the logical outcome of quite a bit of intrigue, but the conversation seemed to me to be abbreviated.
9. Daemon's babe dumps him. I think.
10. Deamon is to be exiled: well, if pervy uncle is hosing, or might be hosing, my royal daughter I think I'd have taken off his head. King apparently still needs his brother to be present in some place of importance so he's sent off into exile. Sux to be king. Mel Brooks would disagree, however.
11. "You'll marry that guy and like it!"

As I got no replies, we'll move the Ep 5 commentary into this post:

---

Episode 5: OK, we need to get grimmer and darker. Or do we?

Spoiler: They saved a lot of energy by not having too much light

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1. Daemon is now a widower; his complicity is assumed by her family and likely others. Not sure why he's allowed back into town, I though he was exiled last time?
2. I may be King, but I can get seasick and chunder over the side with the best of them.
3. The old Hand leaves, reminds daughter that the knives will be out for her and her kids. "I love you, good bye and good luck."
4. Aah, royal romance: He loves someone else, she loves someone else, so they'll be married and do their duties. Deal.
5. "Leave all of this, marry me for love, let's run away!" The hopeless romantic (princess) says: "No!"
6. "My queen, I boned the king's daughter, please kill me rather than having me gelded and tortured." Answer: "Thanks for sharing, carry on"
7. Very little dragon time in this ep.
8. Let's have a party, but don't play the Rains of Castimir. It's a pre-wedding feast.
9. *punch in the face (times about 30)* "You messed up, you trusted me"
10. So much for seven days of tournaments and feasting, let's just do this marriage that bonds our families and be done with it.
11. "Uncle, if you really loved me you'd kidnap me and take me to Dragonstone. With our two dragons we can kick all of their butts"
12. "I have lost my honor, I shall now commit Westerosian Seppuku-" Queen arrives "Stay your hand, Sir Handsome Knight"
13. "It's great to be king. Wait, no it isn't!"

This may be the last post if nobody is watching this show anymore.

[VoxRationis]

In point of fact, I and my friends have been watching this show. At the end of episode 5, we had a great debate over whether to take the green or the black. My friend was of the opinion that, viewed through the appropriate social context (specifically, the same social context which led Jason Lannister to attempt to demote the woman he planned on marrying, thus denying himself a seat in the Red Keep), Alicent's position was preferable. I have generally tended to prefer the black.

[KorvinStarmast]

Alicent in Episode 6 appears to be played by a different actress. Likewise Rhaenyra and a number of other characters have grown up.

Seeing Daemon married to Laena Valaeryon (who was originally offered to the King) was jarring. (No, I have not read Fire and Blood) just a few of the short stories about the Dance of Dragons.

The fistfight in the sword practice yard was an odd parallel to the fistfight at the betrothal feast.

The tension between the princess/heir and the queen has become palpable, which makes dramatic sense.

The Hand's offer of resignation was well done, in terms of consequences, and the king's refusal to accept it was rational.

Dragons, and princelings, and childbirth; Daemon's attitude toward his wife is supposed to hint at something, but I am not sure what.
I guess he's still holding a candle for Rhaenyra.

All in all, it took me most of the episode to get used to who the players were; I didn't see a lot of exposition connecting the bits. I have to go and look up the significance of Pentos; it was casually mentioned in a serious discussion between Deamon and Lord {someone} who is housing him, but nothing registered.

By the way, this makes no sense at all from a world building perspective

Spoiler: Braavos

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Braavos is thought to be the most powerful and prosperous of the Free Cities of Easteros. Not just one landmass, Braavos is composed of hundreds of islands that connect with each other by stone bridges.
Braavos was founded by Valyrian refugees that had fled their homes to escape the expansion of the Valyrian Freehold.
After discovering and founding the land of Braavos, it was successfully concealed from the outside world for approximately 400 years, until the Doom of Valyria, at which point Braavos revealed itself to the rest of the world. Because it remained secret for so many years, Braavos was isolated from all outside influences and developed a very unique identity. The culture of Braavos is one that is wrapped in much mysticism and magic. Braavos is home to many mysterious landmarks and characters, such as the Faceless Man, Jaqen H’ghar and the Temple of the Faceless Men, The House of Black and White. Syrio Forel, the man who taught Arya how to fight with a sword, is also from Braavos. Other landmarks include The Iron Bank of Braavos, the most powerful bank in the world, as well as the Titan of Braavos, a massive statue that guards the entrance into the lagoon of Braavos and serves as a defense to any invaders. ”

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast
Alicent in Episode 6 appears to be played by a different actress. Likewise Rhaenyra and a number of other characters have grown up.

Yup, they replaced the two younger actresses with slightly older ones. Takes some getting used to.

Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast
By the way, this makes no sense at all from a world building perspective….

I know very little about the world apart from what I’ve seen in GoT. Which aspects don’t make sense?

[KorvinStarmast]

What's wrong with the third trilogy?

Yup, they replaced the two younger actresses with slightly older ones. Takes some getting used to.

I know very little about the world apart from what I’ve seen in GoT. Which aspects don’t make sense?

The parts that I bolded. Banking relies on loans and commerce, and leverage, and hiding a city won't make the city the most wealthy and (one of the) most powerful in the world. It is the opposite of what makes cities great.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast
Banking relies on loans and commerce, and leverage, and hiding a city won't make the city the most wealthy and (one of the) most powerful in the world. It is the opposite of what makes cities great.

I see where you’re coming from. I would assume the banking and commerce came after the city revealed its existence?

I don’t know the timeframes involved. If they’re trying to be a financial capital while still operating in secret…that would take some convoluted story logic to be sure.

[KorvinStarmast]

I see where you’re coming from. I would assume the banking and commerce came after the city revealed its existence?
I don’t know the timeframes involved. If they’re trying to be a financial capital while still operating in secret…that would take some convoluted story logic to be sure.

Yeah, how that opposed pair of requirements are resolved isn't explained.

[2D8HP]

Saw (I think) episode 7 tonight and I agree wholeheartedly with one decision of the showrunners:

Spoiler

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when they replace the actors playing Alicent’s sons that one will wear an eyepatch will make it much easier to tell them apart

[Ramza00]

By the way, this makes no sense at all from a world building perspective

Spoiler: Braavos

Show

Braavos is thought to be the most powerful and prosperous of the Free Cities of Easteros. Not just one landmass, Braavos is composed of hundreds of islands that connect with each other by stone bridges.
Braavos was founded by Valyrian refugees that had fled their homes to escape the expansion of the Valyrian Freehold.
After discovering and founding the land of Braavos, it was successfully concealed from the outside world for approximately 400 years, until the Doom of Valyria, at which point Braavos revealed itself to the rest of the world. Because it remained secret for so many years, Braavos was isolated from all outside influences and developed a very unique identity. The culture of Braavos is one that is wrapped in much mysticism and magic. Braavos is home to many mysterious landmarks and characters, such as the Faceless Man, Jaqen H’ghar and the Temple of the Faceless Men, The House of Black and White. Syrio Forel, the man who taught Arya how to fight with a sword, is also from Braavos. Other landmarks include The Iron Bank of Braavos, the most powerful bank in the world, as well as the Titan of Braavos, a massive statue that guards the entrance into the lagoon of Braavos and serves as a defense to any invaders. ”

The parts that I bolded. Banking relies on loans and commerce, and leverage, and hiding a city won't make the city the most wealthy and (one of the) most powerful in the world. It is the opposite of what makes cities great.

This is a world of magic, so we can hand wave some things. But let’s use some real world examples to establish scale.

We have archaeology evidence of glass beads from Venice from the late 1300s being traded with Alaska prior to Christopher Columbus (thus likely via Asia trade routes.) Likewise we have found Song Dynasty coins (minted around 1008 and 1016 A.D) to be in trade circulation in South East England around the 1300s (Hampshire)

Thus sea bearing trade in our world without magic can trade a world away, but often in a multi stage steps where goods trade from one agent to another to another in a great chain. Is it not possible for our imagination that people can keep the location of a city secret and they still did their trade to those far away places?

I agree long term one would need to reveal the city to be powerful, but we are talking a colony here and those colonies have a growing period before they become famous in their own right.

[KorvinStarmast]

Saw (I think) episode 7 tonight and I agree wholeheartedly with one decision of the showrunners:

Spoiler

Show

when they replace the actors playing Alicent’s sons that one will wear an eyepatch will make it much easier to tell them apart

Howdy, amigo, and I agree with that decision.
I don't agree with the kiddie violence aspect of the show, but it makes narrative sense.

Spoiler: what I liked about episode 7

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What I did like in Episode 7:
1. This time, pervy Uncle and Rhaenya have an intimate encounter, not quite as wrong feeling as the first time
2. The King does a bit of King Leer, it seems to me.
3. Kid takes the risk and gets to fly a Dragon. Highlight of the episode, for me.
4. Two moms kvetching that their kids are awesome and defending them in front of a crowd.
5. King rants about who is telling these lies (which are true) about his grandkids being bastards, and the oldest grandson up and tells him the plain truth: we all know it's true, your majesty.
6. Love the last scene of the two dudes in a rowboat
7. Was surprised by the boy going over to apologize, even though he was forced to, the response he got and how he handled it
8. Valeryon family tension between husband and wife...nice, if brief, scene
9. I gained a dragon and lost an eye: fair trade. Nice line.

This episode certainly had its share of moments that lagged, but in general as a drama they did quite a bit of good work. Conversation between the Queen and her Father near the end set the hook nicely for the next episode(s). Nice job on that one.

[Thomas Cardew]

Yeah, how that opposed pair of requirements are resolved isn't explained.

I think that's just a poorly written wiki article / fantasy time scales make no sense and someone screwed up dates. The City gets founded by escaped slaves ~ 1000 years before the shows. It hides its existence for 111 years, becoming a mildly prosperous trading city in that time by sending it's ships out to trade with others but not allowing foreigners to come to them. After that 111 years (not 400), it reveals its location to the wider world welcoming foreigners in, but it's still a bit player at best. The empire the slaves escaped from is consumed with internal politics and doesn't bother to hunt down and conquer its escaped slaves. Then through fantasy magic the Empire vanishes completely and utterly basically overnight ~200/400 years ago (200 for HotD, 400 for GOT prime). Middling trading city suddenly becomes a major center of commerce because the actual major commerce centers disappeared overnight. Over the next 200-400 years it becomes the trade/banking power it is in that wiki article/main series. A real world analogy might be a fictional colony of escaped Chinese slaves in Indonesia suddenly becoming a huge trading power after all of mainland China disappeared. Or a fictional colony of escaped slaves somewhere in the Caribbean becomes a major banking center for the new North American Kingdom after every European empire spontaneously disappeared.


About the current show. I didn't read the series and have no intention of giving Martin another cent of my money, but my understanding is they used an unreliable narrator. No one is quite sure WHAT happened. The shows suffers from showing what definitely DID happen. The audience gets to know the 'true' events which is undercutting itself in a way. Like the Daemon scene in the Vale would have been much better if it hadn't shown him picking up the rock. Prior to that you don't actually know what he wanted/intended.

[KorvinStarmast]

Episode 8:

Spoiler: highlights

Show

1. "Let's gross folks out!"
Success.
2. Succession crisis, major noble house, badly handled.
"You may be my brother-in-law, but honestly, I don't like you that much."
3. Those kids are not legitimate.
Previous episode, when a grandchild said it, King just bit his lip.
This time, it got the truth teller killed. Why? Because it conflicted with the objectives of his cousin and himself for taking over that truth teller's house.
He knew he was hosed, so he, Vaemond, went down swinging.
4. Queen and Princess:
R: Let's make up, we used to be friends, and it is the dying King's last wish.
A: OK
Toasts offered and returned.
To bad our kids hate each others' guts.

5. Have a conversation with your wife, but you think she's your daughter with whom you have shared a vital historical secret. Oops.

The King is dead, long live the succession fight

Lousy parenting, 101, in stereo.

[2D8HP]

Episode 8:

Spoiler: highlights

Show

1. "Let's gross folks out!"
Success.
2. Succession crisis, major noble house, badly handled.
"You may be my brother-in-law, but honestly, I don't like you that much."
3. Those kids are not legitimate.
Previous episode, when a grandchild said it, King just bit his lip.
This time, it got the truth teller killed. Why? Because it conflicted with the objectives of his cousin and himself for taking over that truth teller's house.
He knew he was hosed, so he, Vaemond, went down swinging.
4. Queen and Princess:
R: Let's make up, we used to be friends, and it is the dying King's last wish.
A: OK
Toasts offered and returned.
To bad our kids hate each others' guts.

5. Have a conversation with your wife, but you think she's your daughter with whom you have shared a vital historical secret. Oops.

The King is dead, long live the succession fight

Lousy parenting, 101, in stereo.

Yep, you nailed it.

One thing that this episode helped this viewer with is in turning “no sympathetic characters” into “all sympathetic characters” (

Spoiler

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except for Alicent’s sons, who’ve grown loathsome

), since they’re staged to clash, this is looking like a set up for tragedy.

[JadedDM]

The show does seem to be working harder to make the characters more sympathetic, which is probably a good thing. Everyone was so awful in the book, you didn't want to root for anyone at all.

[Ramza00]

Just a reminder this is a Martin theme but Monarchy can literally breed the worse version of ourselves, for people without emotional support systems can be intense chaotic unpredictable people. Likewise there desires are not being met even if they have so much more power than the common small folk. The monarchists are not taught to be emotional aware, and so on, instead they are supposed to be better than everyone else.

Everyone knows a Tyland Lannister in real life, and this system of aristocracy breed these laughable vain fools who must make the most important decisions for a society for the conceit of one insult may shake the realm.

Edit: I meant Jason Lannister, the identical twin brother who is played by the same actor. Jason is whatever minutes older than Tyland, but Tyland is on the Kings Landing quiet council.

[pendell]

Just a reminder this is a Martin theme but Monarchy can literally breed the worse version of ourselves, for people without emotional support systems can be intense chaotic unpredictable people. Likewise there desires are not being met even if they have so much more power than the common small folk. The monarchists are not taught to be emotional aware, and so on, instead they are supposed to be better than everyone else.

Everyone knows a Tyland Lannister in real life, and this system of aristocracy breed these laughable vain fools who must make the most important decisions for a society for the conceit of one insult may shake the realm.

:Nod: Essentially, Martin is the Anti-Tolkien. Tolkien wrote an Arthuresque king in Aragon; brave, wise, supernaturally chosen for the role in token of which he is a gifted healer -- "the hands of the kings are a hands of a healer", a close echo of the concept of Royal Touch . Aragorn is an ideal king.

Martin is an American. We have a ... less positive and more Monty Python-esque view of monarchy .

Or maybe Sam Vime's view in Pratchett's books:

Listen! We probably had good kings, once! But kings breed other kings! And blood tells, and you end up with a bunch of arrogant, murdering [deleted]! Chopping off queens’ heads and fighting their cousins every five minutes! And we had centuries of that! And then one day a man said 'No more kings!’ and we rose up and we fought the bloody nobles and we dragged the king off his throne and we dragged him into Sator Square and we chopped his bloody head off! Job well done!’

'Wow,’ said Carrot. 'Who was he?’

'Who?’

'The man who said 'No more kings.“

People were staring. Vimes’s face went from the red of anger to the red of embarrassment. There was little difference in the shading, however.

'Oh… he was Commander of the City Guard in those days,’ he mumbled. 'They called him Old Stoneface.’

The kings in Martin's world aren't noble Aragorns. They're what you get when you take the proud and ambitious Aegon the Conqueror, who wasn't apparently the nicest of men to begin with, then you have unbroken centuries of people brought up with absolute power, backed with dragons, and no empathy for anyone except their own people. You get the Mad King and drunk King Robert and megalomaniacal King Joffrey.

Game of Thrones is a more 'realistic' world if by 'realism' you mean there's a lot less nobility and a lot more selfish, narcissistic humans all vying for power. But if GoT is somewhat closer to real history I still prefer *reading* LOTR. Goodness knows I deal with enough of that nonsense in the real world I don't need it in my fantasy.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[KorvinStarmast]

Everyone knows a Tyland Lannister

Tywin?

Martin is the Anti-Tolkien.

Really? What was the first clue?

But if GoT is somewhat closer to real history I still prefer *reading* LOTR. Goodness knows I deal with enough of that nonsense in the real world I don't need it in my fantasy.

True enough, but sometimes a grittier story is appealing. The first three volumes of GoT were pretty darned good.

[Ramza00]

:Nod: Essentially, Martin is the Anti-Tolkien. Tolkien wrote an Arthuresque king in Aragon; brave, wise, supernaturally chosen for the role in token of which he is a gifted healer -- "the hands of the kings are a hands of a healer", a close echo of the concept of Royal Touch . Aragorn is an ideal king.

Martin is an American. We have a ... less positive and more Monty Python-esque view of monarchy .

Or maybe Sam Vime's view in Pratchett's books:

Martin borrows from over a dozen sources, arguably he is using Frank Herbert more in structure and point of view than being Tolkien or Anti-Tolkien. But yeah you can tell Martin was reading the fantasy and sci fi magazines of the 60s and 70s.

Tywin?
Really? What was the first clue?

Sorry I got the Lannister twins confused. There are two famous identical twin Lannisters in the show.

Jason is the older identical twin and is lord of Casterly Rock. Tyland is actually useful and is on the small council.

Jason tried to seduce Rhaenarys a few episodes ago when Rhae and her dad were trying to figure out who she was going to marry. Jason was Pompous and boisterous and when they first meet Rhae got him confused for she already knows who his twin brother is due to being her father’s wine pourer when they have small council meetings.

enough, but sometimes a grittier story is appealing. The first three volumes of GoT were pretty darned good.

Hey book 4, 5, and the History Book were good as well for they showed how many disasters have occurred before

People talk about post apocalyptic fiction all the time for the present feels overwhelming. Thus we feel only man made disaster or the anthrocepene can change the eternal present.

But the baroque tales of the late 1500s to the 1700s aka Shakespeare are different, so many forms of tragedies that are different than Arisotle tragedy (there is redemption and society repair in the end), no on the Barroque mourning plays / the Trauerspiels it is not confident that society will repair. One choice can lead to disastrous consequences that impact a society. That is why Shakespeares tragedies and histories feel real, for you are playing with dice that can have impacts beyond one’s expectations.

Thus some days you learn your history while going down a river trapped as a prisoner.

[KorvinStarmast]

Hey book 5, 6,

Book 6 has not yet been published.

That is why Shakespeares tragedies and histories feel real, for you are playing with dice that can have impacts beyond one’s expectations.

They are good stuff. I have seen a farcical, Monty Pythonesque version of Titus Andronicus that was very good. About 35 years ago.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JadedDM
The show does seem to be working harder to make the characters more sympathetic, which is probably a good thing. Everyone was so awful in the book, you didn't want to root for anyone at all.

I struggled to find anyone to care about during the first three episodes. Usually a show will try to get you involved with at least one of the characters in the first three minutes, but this show seems to take its audience for granted.

[JadedDM]

I struggled to find anyone to care about during the first three episodes. Usually a show will try to get you involved with at least one of the characters in the first three minutes, but this show seems to take its audience for granted.

You definitely don't want to read the book then.

[Palanan]

Don’t worry.

The only reason I watched the first three episodes, apart from a vague interest in the history of Westeros and a desire to be thorough, is that really good fantasy shows are desperately hard to find.

If only we could have an epic fantasy series that’s as astonishingly good as Andor. Hope springs eternal.

[KorvinStarmast]

If only we could have an epic fantasy series that’s as astonishingly good as Andor. Hope springs eternal.

Is Andor in Disney?

[Ramza00]

Is Andor in Disney?

Andor is Disney, specifically Star Wars done by Tony Gilroy. I have not watched it and I have no opinion, just sharing Osmosis stuff.

Tony Gilroy is the person who did the Rogue One reshoots, as well as one of the big wigs for the Bourne Series writing the first 3 movies and writting and directing Bourne 4 (the Legacy one with Jeremy Renner as a different character.). Tony Gilroy did his Director debut with Michael Clayton movie.

I been avoiding it for I am Star Wars out, and telling me one of the Bourne Guys doing it causes me to 😬 . Yet I been hearing good things for it being a complete breath of fresh air and truly about rebelling against oppressive systems. I do not have Disney currently so I am in no hurry but if it keeps on getting good press I may check it out. Do what you will I am not trying to change your mind, just sharing osmosis for everyone who has tried it has said good things, in my area of the internet.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Ramza00
Yet I been hearing good things for it being a complete breath of fresh air and truly about rebelling against oppressive systems. I do not have Disney currently so I am in no hurry but if it keeps on getting good press I may check it out.

Andor is phoenomenal. Only halfway through, but already the best Star Wars property on Disney+, and easily better than several recent movies in the franchise. I know that’s a very low bar, but it’s genuinely superb on its own merits. Each episode is better than the last.

And it really is about getting a rebellion off the ground and out of the mud, and dealing with the personalities, agendas and struggles of the individuals who do the dreaming and fighting and dying. Without giving any details, it’s already given us a look at small-unit partisan warfare, as well as wealthy political idealists who are a galaxy away from those tiny cells, and the shady operators who bridge that divide.

It’s also given us a close-up view of how the Empire operates in practice—and along the way it manages to humanize individuals in the Imperial structure in subtle and surprising ways. This is one of the show’s greatest strengths: its ability to present people we’re expecting to hate as unexpectedly human, and to allow us to empathize with and even quietly root for them, by showing us nuance and commonalities rather than a faceless monolith.

The acting is exceptional, the tension is superb, the action feels gritty and desperate. Unlike other recent Star Wars shows, which were so bad I could barely believe what I was watching, this show is so good I can barely believe what I’m watching. If you have friends with Disney+, buy them dinner and watch the first three episodes of Andor, and tell me if you aren’t instantly committed in full.

[KorvinStarmast]

Andor is Disney, specifically Star Wars done by Tony Gilroy. I have not watched it and I have no opinion, just sharing Osmosis stuff.

Tony Gilroy is the person who did the Rogue One reshoots, as well as one of the big wigs for the Bourne Series writing the first 3 movies and writting and directing Bourne 4 (the Legacy one with Jeremy Renner as a different character.). Tony Gilroy did his Director debut with Michael Clayton movie.

I been avoiding it for I am Star Wars out, and telling me one of the Bourne Guys doing it causes me to 😬 . Yet I been hearing good things for it being a complete breath of fresh air and truly about rebelling against oppressive systems. I do not have Disney currently so I am in no hurry but if it keeps on getting good press I may check it out. Do what you will I am not trying to change your mind, just sharing osmosis for everyone who has tried it has said good things, in my area of the internet.

Thank you. My son and I really liked Rogue One.

[KorvinStarmast]

Latest episode.
1. A bit of a mixed bag, but for sure the power move by The Hand was predictable. He was the one, after all, who first put his daughter in front of the king to try and get the king interested in him her.

2. Spoiled grand kids - a trope.

3. The final sequence, and the dragon, were a very good end to the episode.

I have to turn the sound up because a lot of the dialogue seems to be muttered.

Edit: sorry about that, My Queen.

[Thomas Cardew]

Latest episode.
1. A bit of a mixed bag, but for sure the power move by The Hand was predictable. He was the one, after all, who first put his daughter in front of the king to try and get the king interested in him.

2. Spoiled grand kids - a trope.

3. The final sequence, and the dragon, were a very good end to the episode.

I have to turn the sound up because a lot of the dialogue seems to be muttered.

A very mixed bag, I think the best scene was the council at the start. There were a few others, but the casualness of the conspirators 'of course, we were plotting. This was always the plan regardless of what you or the king wanted.' was just perfect.

I thought the final sequence was horrible. It's big dumb DRAMA, final season GOT not first season. Complete spectacle over any semblance of reality. It wasn't even say lawful stupid, just stupid stupid.

[KorvinStarmast]

I thought the final sequence was horrible. It's big dumb DRAMA, final season GOT not first season. Complete spectacle over any semblance of reality. It wasn't even say lawful stupid, just stupid stupid.

What I liked about it was how they set it up, and as a reminder

Spoiler: what the plotters and the audience needed to have shown again

Show

that dragon riders are a special case, and that Rhaenys as a dragon rider, and she showed her power by not having the dragon flame that little brat who just got crowned king, and all of the conspirators

If we go back to episode 1, we have an early demonstration of how the young dragon riding princess is different from everyone else.
A few episodes later, she comes in on dragon back and defuses a tense situation at Dragonstone.
An ep or two later, the young prince takes the big risk and ends up with a dragon ride.

The dragons are what make the Targaryens special, as Corlys Velaryon reminded the king in at least one conversation.

Heck, dragons is what makes Daenerys Targaryen special.