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-
2022-09-25, 05:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Monster Mash #5
This competition is for monstrous adventurers, in part to experiment with the possibilities they offer and in part to make use of the revised level adjustments which Inevitability and Debatra have spent five years assigning.
Adventurers designed for this contest must be of a monstrous race. For the purpose of this contest, “monstrous race” excludes all races designed for PC use, unless their level adjustment has been increased by one or more templates. “Monstrous race” is a somewhat vague category, by necessity. No simple set of rules can exclude every single PC race without also excluding some genuine monsters. Entries which flout this rule with borderline-monstrous races risk a penalty to their Monstrosity score.
For the purpose of this competition, all races use the modified level adjustments listed in the LA Assignment Archive. Races with a -0 level adjustment are treated as if they had a +0 level adjustment. Monsters not rated at the time an entry is submitted and who haven't had an official level adjustment may not be used. You are allowed to play monsters not rated in the LA assignment thread only if they got an official level adjustment.
Some races' level adjustments include asterisks. These monsters have traits which render them unsuitable for PC use, such as a wight’s spawn creation, a dryad’s tree dependency, or a genie’s wishes; check the linked posts in the archive. For the purpose of this contest, those races do not possess those traits. In cases where it's unclear which traits are removed, please contact the chair for clarification.
Round Theme: Crawling Monsters
Halloween season is coming, and if skeletons and witches can be spooky, it's often more scary to have a nonhumanoid monster, crawling on the ground.
- The monster character must have 4 or more legs and walk primarily on all four.
- The monster character must not have or acquire hands.
To note: Other kinds of non-hand manipulators are not banned.
Contestants
You will need to present a full build for your entry, from its first level to level 20. Also required is a rundown of how your build works at lower levels, to demonstrate that it is a functional character that could be played in a real game.
Traditionally participants in similar competitions give "snapshots" of tactics and abilities at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. Depending on the monstrous race chosen, your character may be unavailable at lower levels; in that case, instead give snapshots at various levels where it is playable. These snapshots should be roughly evenly distributed among what levels it is available at.
Spoiler: Sources and General Rules
32 point-buy is the presumed creation method.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.
If the monster you're cooking with has no intelligence, or an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, consider the intelligence as 3 (-8 racial modifier). It still retains any immunity to mind-affecting abilities it may have.
Competitors will be free to use any official 1st party (WotC) 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Unupdated 3.0 materials, as well as web exclusives by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion.
Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition.
Specific bans:
Any material that grants you leadership without you specifically taking it should be ignored and may not be traded away for another feat or ACF. Any variant of Leadership, such as Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort are likewise banned. Wild Cohort and Obtain Familiar are allowed. If you are not sure if a specific feat violates the 'no leadership' rule, err on the side of caution, or ask me.
However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.
Because this contest involves creating a build up to level 20, no race with a base ECL higher than 20 is allowed.
The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party).
The Illithid Savant and Beholder Mage prestige classes are specifically banned due to their extreme potential for abuse.
Judging
Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Monstrosity.
Scores of zero may be applied in cases of exceptional misconduct (plagiarism earns a 0 in Originality, failure to meet prerequisites earns a 0 in Elegance, non-monstrous races earn a 0 in Monstrosity, etc); otherwise, all entries should receive at least one full point in each category.
- Originality: Is it unexpected or novel?
- Power: Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
- Elegance: Is it mechanically straighforward or “pretty”?
- Monstrosity: Is the monstrous character’s race used?
Spoiler: Precisions on Elegance and MonstrosityElegance and Monstrosity demand further elaboration.
Elegance measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept.
A legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using conflicting setting material may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Monstrosity measures how necessary the entry’s monster race was to the submission. We want to build monstrous adventurers here, not standard Iron Chef builds with a few racial hit dice at the start. Builds which could not function without the monstrous features of their race earn high Monstrosity scores, while builds which could work on any PC race with no changes will take Monstrosity penalties. Builds using non-monstrous races will also take penalties to Monstrosity. For rounds with specific restrictions on the monster race, this category will also include making good use of the mandatory component.
Presentation
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class[/B][/th]
[th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
[th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
[th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
[th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
[th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class:head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[th][B]Level[/B][/th]
[th][B]0lvl[/B][/th]
[th][B]1st[/B][/th]
[th][B]2nd[/B][/th]
[th][B]3rd[/B][/th]
[th][B]4th[/B][/th]
[th][B]5th[/B][/th]
[th][B]6th[/B][/th]
[th][B]7th[/B][/th]
[th][B]8th[/B][/th]
[th][B]9th[/B][/th]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Alternatively, you may use this spreadsheet created by mattie_p.
For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list or table.
Speculation
Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.
Deadlines
Contestants will have until 23:59 GMT Sunday 30rd of October to create their builds and PM them to the chair. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 23:59 GMT Sunday 13th of November to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. Deadlines are subject to extension as/if required.
Submission
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:
PM: Beni-Kujaku
Subject: Monster Mash #, Name of your Entry
For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mailbox.
More questions? Either ask in the thread or PM me with Monster Mash Questions in the header. Please use PMs for any questions relating to a specific build to avoid violating rules against speculation.
Houserules/Clarifications
D&D 3.5 is far from a perfect system, and inflated level adjustments are far from the only example of this. Many rules are ambiguous, absent, or just badly-written. I make no claim to fixing the system, but feel some “house rules” are in order:
Spoiler
- Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
- All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
- Monsters with racial hit dice may gain an additional hit die instead of taking a character level. This functions as advancing a monster this way would under other circumstances. You cannot advance any monster beyond the maximum number of racial hit dice noted in its Advancement entry. You can advance that way before, after, or in-between taking actual class levels.
- The DC of a monster's supernatural ability is 10+1/2 number of Hit Dice+mod. This includes class levels.
- Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
- Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons.
- Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
- Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.
- Possessing innate spellcasting from your race is treated as a spellcasting class for the purposes of prestige classes which provide new spells per day, an increase in caster level, and spells known (if applicable) as if you had gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.
If you have trouble finding a monster with particular abilities, you might want to check the Searchable Monster Abilities Spreadsheet.
Previous Competitions:
MM1: Back to Basics
MM2: Scary Monsters
MM3: Keep your monsters close, and your enemies closer
MM4: Monsters in the darkness
And now, time to get mashing!Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-10-20 at 02:17 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
-
2022-09-25, 05:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2021
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Q&A for this round:
-Are true dragons allowed in this comp?
No. Draconomicon clarifies that dragons can carry and use items (although not weapons), including magic items, and that they have opposable "thumbs". Although they don't truly have hands, I don't think they should be allowed here.
Spoiler: List of monsters fulfilling the requirement by ECLComing soon
1 : Dire Rat, Cat, Dog, Lizard*, Rat, Toad*, Weasel*, Giant Fire Beetle*, Brain Mole*, Dragon Newt
2 : Krenshar, Badger, Riding Dog*, Donkey*, Hyena, War Pony*, Wolf*, Giant Ant (soldier or worker*), Giant Bombardier Beetle*, Mindshredder larva*, Death Dog, Carcass Eater
3 : Dire Bagder, Dire Weasel, Phantom Fungus, Pseudodragon, Black Bear, Boar*, Camel, Cheetah, Crocodile, Light or Heavy Horse*, Leopard, Monitor Lizard, Mule, Wolverine, Thought Eater*
4 : Hell Hound*, Hippogriffe, Shadow Mastiff, Worg*, Yeth Hound, Light or Heavy Warhorse, Giant ant queen*, Giant Praying Mantis*, Folugub*, Vorr, Skeroloth, Blood Wolf (Web)
5 : Ankheg, Blink Dog, Dire Wolverine, Pegasus, Phase Spider, Rust Monster, Unicorn, Bison*, Lion, Harpooon Spider*, Rejkar, Rune Hound*, Arctic Cat (Web), Cheshire Cat (Web)
6 : Achaierai, Dire Wolf*, Displacer Beast, Howler, Manticore, Winter Wolf*, Brown Bear*, Tiger, Lesser Knell Beetle*, Canoloth, Crysmal*
7 : Barghest, Basilisk, Dire Boar*, Griffon, Remorhaz*, Giant Crocodile*, Giant Stag Beetle*, Feral Yowler*, Mindshredder warrior*
8 : Hellcat (Bezekira), Destrachan*, Dire Lion*, Gorgon, Nightmare, Polar Bear*, Rhinoceros*, Intellect Devourer, Formian Armaddon, Rukanyr
9 : Greater Barghest, Chimera, Dragonne, Lammasu, Gynosphinx, Hieracosphinx*, Bloodstriker*, Harpoon Spider*, Lifeleech Otyugh*, Stonesinger*, Formian Observer*, Gathra*, Kuldurath*
10 : Bulette, Criosphinx, Bearhound*, Kelpie*,
11 : Behir, Elephant*, Shedu
12 : Bebilith, Retriever demon, Dire bear*, Nessian Warhound*, Androsphinx, Chelicera*, Knell Beetle*, Chwidencha*, Fhorge*, Steel Predator
13 : Dragon Turtle, Mindshredder Zenthal*, Megatherium*, Sunwyrm
14 : Rage Drake*, Thought Slayer*
15 : Ironclad Mauler*, Mastodon*, Ssvaklor*, Bonespear*
16 : Triceratops*, Dire Tiger*, Disenchanter*, Hullathoin*, Indricothere*, Cauchimera (Web)
17 : Dire Rhinoceros*
18 : Displacer Beast Pack Lord*, Cauchemar, Dracolisk*
19 :
20 : Siege Crab*, Maulgoth*
ECL varies: Animated objects (4 legs), Hydras, Pyro/cryo hydras, Monstrous Centipede*, Spider or Monstrous Scorpion (T-G),
(asterisks are -0 monsters)Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-09-27 at 02:02 AM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
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2022-09-25, 05:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
I gotta hand it to you, this isn't gonna be a cakewalk. Guess I'll just put my best foot forward.
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2022-09-25, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Have some terrible ideas for this that I want to combine together.
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2022-09-25, 06:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Added the list of reassigned monsters fulfilling the comp requirements. Interestingly, there is a noticeable drop in the number of monsters starting at ECL 10. It's probably linked to the fact that monsters above that CR are more often Extraplanar, and Outsiders are more likely to have hands and humanoid shapes than Material creatures.
You've gotta be pulling my legs with all these. Let it be said that I'm washing my hands of these puns.Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-09-25 at 08:45 AM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-09-25, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
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2022-09-26, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Should the aranea really be allowed this round? It can unavoidably acquire hands as one of its primary gimmicks.
Also, don't otyughs technically have only three legs?
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2022-09-26, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2022-09-26, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
I mean... Theoretically? Just don't use Change Shape. But yeah, realistically, I'll remove it. Let's be consistent with the Canomorphs.
... They do. I remembered the Xorns, but I didn't expect two creatures to have only three legs. Removed.Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-09-26, 02:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Don't araneas have hands in their natural shape too? I mean, it looks like that on the picture.
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2022-09-26, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Are other WotC LA races approved or not this time ? Other than the reevaluated ones
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2022-09-26, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2022-09-27, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Ok ! Must have missed this, thanks
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2022-09-28, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Spoiler: The picture
Look right underneath the hands.
The description of Change Shape indicates that an aranea's natural form is a monstrious spider, but the flavor text indicates that its natural form has arms and hands like this. My best guess is that an aranea's natural form is a weird giant spider with hands (as in the picture), its humanoid form is a humanoid (duh), and its hybrid form is more humanoid than a weird giant spider with hands and more arachnoid than a humanoid.
TL;DR: Evidence points to araneas always having hands.
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2022-09-29, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Question: when you say "The monster character must have 4 or more legs and walk primarily on all four", does that disqualify entries that (at some point) make use of flight? Chimeras and Hippogriffs are listed as eligible monsters: would any entries incorporating them need to somehow 'work' as groundbound characters (so for example no Flyby Attack strategies). What about an incorporeal four-legged creature?
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2022-09-30, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2022-09-30, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Part of me wants to continue litigating what creatures should or shouldn't count—in particular, what kind of appendages count as hands. So I'd like to propose a simple metric: The Rock-Paper-Scissors Test. If a creature can use one of its appendages to win any game of rock-paper-scissors, that appendage is a hand, and the creature is not allowed in this contest.
For instance: A horse's hoof allows it to play rock, but only rock—any opponent that can play paper would defeat it. (I suspect most animals can only play rock, if they can play at all.) A whale's flipper can play paper, letting it dominate the animal RPS metagame but leaving it vulnerable to more flexible humanoid players. And a scorpion's claw can play scissors, making it a counter to cetacean players but weak against both the dominant meta and anyone with hands.
...I was either going to post this in the thread or try to finagle some kind of monstrous scorpion build to justify making this joke in my submission.
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2022-09-30, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2022-09-30 at 11:57 AM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-10-01, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Counterpoint #1: A mimic's scissors-shaped appendage (or a scissors-shaped mimic) cannot win a game of rock-paper-scissors against a horse. It can replace that appendage with a paper-shaped appendage, but that's a separate appendage; neither can independently win any game of Rock-Paper-Scissors.
Counterpoint #2: Mimics absolutely have hands, when they want to.
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2022-10-01, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Okay, I have ideas. Now, I need time and power.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-10-01, 06:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-10-05, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
I'm in to cook!! I've been lurking around this forum for a while after my brother showed me some of the previous competitions since I honestly really adore the absolute nonsense of 3.x.. I've actually been building a character for this in the background! I'm hoping it'll work~
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2022-10-06, 12:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Welcome to themadhouse!
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2022-10-06, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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2022-10-06, 01:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2022-10-06, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-10-13, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
The deadline is slowly approaching and I'm running quite low in entries. How are you all doing?
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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2022-10-13, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
I'm working on. It will be one, maybe two entries from me.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2022-10-13, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
No inspiration, can't think of ways to optimize "race"
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2022-10-14, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Monster Mash V: Crawling Monsters
Ah, I've had school and an illness taking up my time, sorry. I have the build outline, and I'm half-way through a version of it, but I may redo five of those levels if I can find something more elegant. Still, I should have it in before the deadline~ :3