Tome of Battle Doubt

[Fawsto]

Hey, I was wondering, how can a Martial Adept take on account his manouvers and stances when he multiclass to another Martial Adept, like Warblade3/Crusader3. I read the book 2 times and I couldn't find the answer.

My guess is that they act like a Cleric multiclassing to Wizard, they have 2 sources of powers, as shown as how tehy recharge their manouvers. But the problem is, being a Warb3/Crus3 still gets me to Initiator lvl 3. But being a Cleric3/Wizard3 wont get me to 3rd level spells in any spell progression.

What you guys think?

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Sorry!! My last reading trought the book sprouted some efforts. I found the answer to my own question. Sorry to bother. If you still desire to comment, feel free. My answers lies on the book, page 39. Again, sorry.

EDIT 2: With Warb3/Crus3, it takes me to Initiator lvl 4 for both Warblade and Crusader, not lvl 6.

[Nebo_]

My guess is that they act like a Cleric multiclassing to Wizard, they have 2 sources of powers, as shown as how tehy recharge their manouvers. But the problem is, being a Warb3/Crus3 still gets me to Initiator lvl 3. But being a Cleric3/Wizard3 wont get me to 3rd level spells in any spell progression.

You track maneuvers separately for each class. Your initiator level increases by one for every two levels you have in another class. So, your Initiator level for Warblade is 4 ( 3 warblade + 1.5 for crusader, rounded down) and for crusader it's the same. You are greater than the sum or your parts.

[Behold_the_Void]

You track maneuvers separately for each class. Your initiator level increases by one for every two levels you have in another class. So, your Initiator level for Warblade is 4 ( 3 warblade + 1.5 for crusader, rounded down) and for crusader it's the same. You are greater than the sum or your parts.

As I recall, you gain full initiator levels from another initiator class, so Warblade 3 Crusader 3 has initiator level 6.

[Nebo_]

As I recall, you gain full initiator levels from another initiator class, so Warblade 3 Crusader 3 has initiator level 6.

You recall wrongly.

[mapexman115]

To calculate the Initiator Level (IL) for any given martial adept:

1.) Add the full number of levels taken in one martial adept class.

2.) Add 1/2 (round down) the number of all levels taken in all other levels. (Including other MA classes)

3.) [Repeat 1-2 for any other MA class the character has.]


Examples:

- A Warblade 5, Fighter 3 would have an IL of 6.

- A Swordsage 3, Crusader 4 Monk 6 would have an IL of 6 with regard to
Swordsage Maneuvers and Stances, and an IL of 7 with regard to Crusader
M&S

Is that clear? Good. Get to it. ToB rocks!

[Saph]

- A Swordsage 3, Crusader 4 Monk 6 would have an IL of 6 with regard to
Swordsage Maneuvers and Stances, and an IL of 7 with regard to Crusader M&S

You've got the right idea, but I think your math is slightly off.

A Swordsage 3 / Crusader 4 / Monk 6 would have a Swordsage Initiator Level of:

3 + 0.5*4 + 0.5*6 = 8

and a Crusader Initiator Level of:

4 + 0.5*3 + 0.5*6 = 8.5, rounded down to 8, again.

So, the same Initiator Level for both classes, in this case.

- Saph

[Fawsto]

Tome of Battle is cool, I admit... I was a bit suspicious of it in the begining, but I am ok with it now. I just won't bite it when it comes to replace some core classes...

The 3 classes presented just rock all around during all levels... Provided that fighters are good in the begining and bad at the end and casters are just the opposite, wouldn't the Martial Adept classes be the best classes in D&D?

(I am posting this so this thread can go somewhere usefull)

[Ryuuk]

Not necessarily. If you mean power wise, Full casters get exponentially stronger as they grow in level, while Martial Adepts seem to be at a constant level or usefulness from the get go.

[Tokiko Mima]

And remember if you use the tried and true Power Attack/Improved Bull Rush/Shocktrooper/Leap Attack feat chain, you can construct a Fighter that's stronger than any martial class, but way, way, way more boring to play. The greatest advantage of martial classes is that they give you stuff to do in battle, and they don't make it easy to fall into a rut.

[Wordmiser]

Provided that fighters are good in the begining and bad at the end and casters are just the opposite, wouldn't the Martial Adept classes be the best classes in D&D?

The ToB classes are easy to optimize, but the PHB classes* have access to more resources. Honestly, they probably don't have the sources available to outclass the Ranger or Fighter once your game reaches a certain level of optimization.

And I'm not sure I see how high-level (16+) Martial Adepts could challenge equal level Wizards or Sorcerers (or even Warmages, for that matter) without reverting to Giacomo-style tactics (which are undeniably horrifically expensive or which directly reduce your buddies' play-time).

*Beside the Monk. It doesn't get a whole lot from supplements beside Freezing the Lifeblood and Rapid Stunning.