Help with Warblade

[marjan]

Here's the thing: I am making a ToB character for a campaign and I wanted to try out a warblade. The campaign will be one-shot and the only other player in it will be playing unarmed swordsage. Since I don't have any experience with ToB I need a bit of help here. I have half-way built this character but I need comments, suggestions and ideas about most of stuff.

First rules for the campaign:
1. Not to much cheese (in small quantities it's ok)
2. Almost every book is allowed
3. Multi-classing (check No.1) - and no full casters (I would prefer Warblade12, but I'm flexible)
4. Level 12 (won't be any leveling, so anything that works only for lvl12 is good)
5. 40 point buy (I know, I was shocked myself)
6. 1 flaw
That's about it. If I've forgot something I'll add it later.

Now here is my build (what I have so far):

Human Warblade12 (maybe something else for lvl12 since Warblade doesn't get anything interesting at 12)

STR 20 (17 base +3 from levels), DEX 14, CON 16, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 8

Feats:
flaw - shaky
1: Power Attack (human)
Combat Expertise (flaw)
Improved Trip
3: Combat Focus
5: Combat Reflexes (Warblade)
6: Combat Stability
9: Combat Vigor
Improved Initiative (Warblade)
12: ? (maybe Leap Attack or Mad Foam Rager if I substitute last level of warblade with barbarian)

Maneuvers and stances:
First question - if I have a maneuver A that requires another maneuver to qualify for it and I qualified for it using maneuver B which I later retrain do I lose access to maneuver A.

Now the selection - I am mostly leaning toward Tiger Claw maneuver because I like their jumpy aspect.
I'll have to pick 9 maneuvers and 3 stances

Diamond mind:
Disrupting Blow - enemy not doing anything is nice.
Moment of Alacrity - going twice in row sounds good.
Hearing the Air - with warblades spot & listen this will make him a slightly better at avoiding surprises.

Iron Heart:
Dazing Strike - same reason as Disrupting Blow.
Iron Heart Surge - without spellcaster this might save my life.

Tiger Claw:
Claw At The Moon - not really best but is low level.
Death From Above - jumping should be easy and +4d6 dmg isn't bad deal.
Pouncing Charge - pounce is always good (might not be worth the maneuver though).
Rabid Bear Strike - this one deals nice dmg.
Soaring Raptor Style - same as above.
Sudden Leap - for maneuverabillity (how do you spell this? - firefox doesn't help).

Equipment:
88,000gp
Basically changing slots for items won't be much of a problem as long as it makes sense(no hats of dexterity for example).

Strength +4 - 16k
Dexterity +2 - 4k
Constitution +2 - 4k
Intelligence +2 - 4k (this is just to boost Battle X abilities)
Saves(resistance) +2 - 4k
Mithral Fullplate +2 - 15.5k (not sure weather to go for breastplate instead for better mobility in expense of AC)
Natural AC +1 - 2k
Deflection AC +2 - 8k
Boots of Striding And Springing - 5.5k (or Boots of Speed - 12k)
Guisarme +2 (+1 with some special ability) - 8.3k
Augment Crystal for 1d6 acid dmg - 3k
Mind Cloaking Crystal, Lesser - 4.1k

Plus some consumables.
For the +1 special ability for weapon what I found interesting so far was:
- charging (in combination with pouncing charge)
- illusion bane (for those damn spellcasters)
- sweeping (trip checks +2 is not bad)

So if you have any suggestions or ideas please post them - I'd like to hear them.
Thanks for help.

[Arbitrarity]

Usefully, if you qualify for, say, iron heart surge with steely strike, then retrain steely strike to WRT, you still qualify for IHS, as it is an iron heart manuver, thereby fulfilling the prerequisite. If you have less manuvers of a given type than you need to fulfill prerequisites, however, then you can't use them (i.e. steely strike and IHS to qualify for Dazing Strike, and you retrain steely strike and IHS, and have no other iron heart manuvers.

[AslanCross]

Usefully, if you qualify for, say, iron heart surge with steely strike, then retrain steely strike to WRT, you still qualify for IHS, as it is an iron heart manuver, thereby fulfilling the prerequisite. If you have less manuvers of a given type than you need to fulfill prerequisites, however, then you can't use them (i.e. steely strike and IHS to qualify for Dazing Strike, and you retrain steely strike and IHS, and have no other iron heart manuvers.

Tome of Battle explicitly states that it's an exception to the "Lose prerequisites = lose access" rule. I forgot exactly where this appears, but it should be somewhere in the "Blade Magic" chapter.

It might be a good idea to discuss Iron Heart Surge with your DM. It's one of the more badly-written maneuvers, which leads to some people interpreting it can "end any condition" such as "the world existing" or something ridiculous like that. Come up with a list of things it actually does.

And you spelled maneuverability correctly. I'm using Firefox too, and it spellchecks just fine. o_o

[Ninja Chocobo]

It might be a good idea to discuss Iron Heart Surge with your DM. It's one of the more badly-written maneuvers, which leads to some people interpreting it can "end any condition" such as "the world existing" or something ridiculous like that. Come up with a list of things it actually does.

That doesn't actually work, see, you're not suffering a Condition. Sure, if you had Light Sensitivity, you could plausibly extinguish the sun, but "the world existing" doesn't count.
I may well be totally wrong, though.

[Reel On, Love]

That doesn't actually work, see, you're not suffering a Condition. Sure, if you had Light Sensitivity, you could plausibly extinguish the sun, but "the world existing" doesn't count.
I may well be totally wrong, though.

If you had light sensitivity, you could end the dazzled condition... except, oh wait, it doesn't have a defined duration. And if you did, it'd just come right back.

I'm sick of people talking like IHS lets you end whatever you want. If it's not defined as a condition (like Sickened, Shaken, etc), doesn't let you act, or doesn't have a defined duration, IHS doesn't do anything.

[bigbaddragon]

Click me

Btw jesi skontao treci odgovor? Ima nevidljivi tekst u poslednjem redu.

Edit: For all those who didn't understand the ^:
me and marjan have our own language we devised ourselves

[marjan]

Thanks for responses.

Click me

Clicked.

Btw jesi skontao treci odgovor? Ima nevidljivi tekst u poslednjem redu.

Edit: For all those who didn't understand the ^:
me and marjan have our own language we devised ourselves

Jasta more.

[SilentNight]

I don't know the combat ___ feat tree to well but I don't remember being impressed by it. I suggest pursuing the weapon focus chain instead. Also, since you already have the prerequisites you should definitely get knock-down which is very nice. Another little cheesey thing that merely comes from bending the rules is the Ring of Shield. It is a custom magic item that allows you to use shield at CL 2nd at will with a command word.

[marjan]

I don't know the combat ___ feat tree to well but I don't remember being impressed by it. I suggest pursuing the weapon focus chain instead. Also, since you already have the prerequisites you should definitely get knock-down which is very nice. Another little cheesey thing that merely comes from bending the rules is the Ring of Shield. It is a custom magic item that allows you to use shield at CL 2nd at will with a command word.

Knock-down is definitely great option (if it will be allowed - I'll have to check that).

Ring of Shield a few per day will do same job probably, with much less cheese, since if I understood correctly there won't be much encounters per day.

Thanks for both suggestions.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

DO NOT TAKE WEAPON FOCUS! Thank you, this has been your nightly injections of common sense optomizing.

[Eternity]

You may want to grab the Diamond Mind Save counters - they're all low-level, and do wonders in shoring up weak saves (reflex and will for you).

[marjan]

You may want to grab the Diamond Mind Save counters - they're all low-level, and do wonders in shoring up weak saves (reflex and will for you).

I was thinking about those too, but with 5 maneuvers readied it'll be tough to squeeze them in. Will save shouldn't be much of a problem - 4(base) +1(WIS) +2(resistance) +4(Combat Form after first hit) +3(against mind-affecting) = 11 (14 vs. mind-affecting). Having backup is still nice though. Reflex is going to be pretty bad, but probably something I'll have to live with.

[Chronicled]

I don't know the combat ___ feat tree to well but I don't remember being impressed by it. I suggest pursuing the weapon focus chain instead.

You should not take this advice.

[Cuddly]

May I recommend getting your shield animated?

[marjan]

May I recommend getting your shield animated?

I think that is considered cheese as far as my DM is concerned.

[Cuddly]

So that's no on the +1 animated mithral tower shield? Oh well :(.

[RTGoodman]

First, the prerequisites to learn maneuvers are just that - prerequisites. It only says you have to have the X number of maneuvers from a discipline to LEARN the maneuver - you can retrain after you've done that and still keep others.

I was thinking about those too, but with 5 maneuvers readied it'll be tough to squeeze them in. Will save shouldn't be much of a problem - 4(base) +1(WIS) +2(resistance) +4(Combat Form after first hit) +3(against mind-affecting) = 11 (14 vs. mind-affecting). Having backup is still nice though. Reflex is going to be pretty bad, but probably something I'll have to live with.

Well, you could take the Adaptive Style feat, which lets you reselect your readied maneuvers as a full-round action. It's certainly better than having to exercise for 5 minutes or whatever the crap it is without it.

[Draz74]

So that's no on the +1 animated mithral tower shield? Oh well :(.

1) Tower Shields are specifically described as wooden. Wooden objects can't be made out of mithral as a special material. Firmly house rule territory.
2) Warblades aren't proficient with tower shields.
3) I agree with his DM. Animated shields are cheesy and should be priced as at least a +4 enhancement.

Anyway ... some of my favorite Warblade maneuvers are:

• Wall of Blades (Iron Heart Counter 2). Save it to ward off critical hits ... or ray spells!
• Emerald Razor (Diamond Mind Strike 2) -- with Power Attack. Great when you can't get a full attack.
• Sudden Leap (Tiger Claw Boost 1) -- oh wait, you can get a full attack.
• Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw Strike 5). Like a Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1-level dip, except not cheesy.
• White Raven Tactics (White Raven Boost 3), since no one else has mentioned it! Your Swordsage partner really wants you to get this one.

You might want Crusader rather than Warblade, though, since your party doesn't have a healer. Or you could just buy Belts of Healing and stuff, I guess ...

[marjan]

Wall of Blades (Iron Heart Counter 2). Save it to ward off critical hits ... or ray spells!

I like the part about ray spells.

Emerald Razor (Diamond Mind Strike 2) -- with Power Attack. Great when you can't get a full attack.

Nice maneuver indeed, but as you said, Sudden Leap can get you a full attack and possibly more.

Sudden Leap (Tiger Claw Boost 1) -- oh wait, you can get a full attack.

This is one that I'll have to include.
BTW description of this maneuver says that you can tumble to avoid AoOs, so I was wondering if you have any penalty on your tumble check since you're not moving at half speed (not moving at your speed also) and weather you need to move full distance of your jump check (for example if you get jump check of 30 can you move 20ft, or do you have to move all 30ft).

Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw Strike 5). Like a Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1-level dip, except not cheesy.

Included.

White Raven Tactics (White Raven Boost 3), since no one else has mentioned it! Your Swordsage partner really wants you to get this one.

This may or may not be to cheesy. I'll have to check it with DM.

You might want Crusader rather than Warblade, though, since your party doesn't have a healer.

You're probably right about that, but I'd like to try Warblade. If he dies I can make Crusader.

And you spelled maneuverability correctly. I'm using Firefox too, and it spellchecks just fine. o_o

HA, I've found the problem. Mine maneuverability has two Ls.

[Cuddly]

1) Tower Shields are specifically described as wooden. Wooden objects can't be made out of mithral as a special material. Firmly house rule territory.

Clearly you aren't familiar with enough source material.

2) Warblades aren't proficient with tower shields.

I was unaware. A level of fighter would solve that, though not worth it imo.

3) I agree with his DM. Animated shields are cheesy and should be priced as at least a +4 enhancement.

While I agree, that would be firmly in house rule territory

[Irreverent Fool]

I recommend the Diamond Mind maneuvers highly. My 9th-level mongrelman warblade currently has a +6 constitution bonus which adds to Concentration. With Blade Meditation(Diamond Mind) and skill focus, he has an additional +5. Add the 12 ranks from keeping it capped per level and he's got a +23 to Concentration checks. He always keeps the Concentration-check-result-in-place-of-a-Will-save maneuver readied (obviously the name escapes me at the moment) which means a minimum of a check result of 24 which is respectable against most things that throw Will saves at you at that level, to say the least. (Also you can't fail on a natural roll of 1!)

So on top of having a great Will and Fort save available (and the high hp of _6 bonus and d12 hit dice), he's also got Insightful Strike prepped almost all of the time. Insightful strike is great since it allows him to replace any normal damage roll (including bonuses/penalties) with the result of a Concentration check. This means he doesn't have to be a 2-handed power-attacker to do respectable damage. He can use a shield and poke at them with a spiked gauntlet if you like and still do 1d20+23 damage! Not crazy ubercharger damage, I know. But not bad either.

Greater Insightful Strike does damage equal DOUBLE the check result.

Iron Heart Surge is a must-have. Just don't be silly with it. It can save your butt between re-readying.

White Raven Tactics is ridiculously good.

As far as replacing maneuvers goes, I believe that once you have learned a maneuver you no longer have to meet the prerequisites to keep it. That way your Warblade doesn't end up with a bunch of low-level maneuvers that he'll never use again. I believe it's in the 'Blade magic' section, but I'm not sure. The book is great but poorly organized.

Anyway, I have great fun with my warblade. I hope you enjoy your adventure. Oh and if you do take insightful strike, remember that if for some reason you are polymorphed into a chicken, rat, or other small 'harmless' animal, you can still use most of your maneuvers.

[Irreverent Fool]

I recommend the Diamond Mind maneuvers highly. My 9th-level mongrelman warblade currently has a +6 constitution bonus which adds to Concentration. With Blade Meditation(Diamond Mind) and skill focus, he has an additional +5. Add the 12 ranks from keeping it capped per level and he's got a +23 to Concentration checks. He always keeps the Concentration-check-result-in-place-of-a-Will-save maneuver readied (obviously the name escapes me at the moment) which means a minimum of a check result of 24 which is respectable against most things that throw Will saves at you at that level, to say the least. (Also you can't fail on a natural roll of 1!)

So on top of having a great Will and Fort save available (and the high hp of _6 bonus and d12 hit dice), he's also got Insightful Strike prepped almost all of the time. Insightful strike is great since it allows him to replace any normal damage roll (including bonuses/penalties) with the result of a Concentration check. This means he doesn't have to be a 2-handed power-attacker to do respectable damage. He can use a shield and poke at them with a spiked gauntlet if you like and still do 1d20+23 damage! Not crazy ubercharger damage, I know. But not bad either.

Greater Insightful Strike does damage equal DOUBLE the check result.

Iron Heart Surge is a must-have. Just don't be silly with it. It can save your butt between re-readying.

White Raven Tactics is ridiculously good.

As far as replacing maneuvers goes, I believe that once you have learned a maneuver you no longer have to meet the prerequisites to keep it. That way your Warblade doesn't end up with a bunch of low-level maneuvers that he'll never use again. I believe it's in the 'Blade magic' section, but I'm not sure. The book is great but poorly organized.

Anyway, I have great fun with my warblade. I hope you enjoy your adventure. Oh and if you do take insightful strike, remember that if for some reason you are polymorphed into a chicken, rat, or other small 'harmless' animal, you can still use most of your maneuvers.

[MorkaisChosen]

Insightful Strike is awesome. On other stuff: the TWF Tiger Claw adept can work pretty well, especially with a touch of Bloodclaw Master, or whatever it's called (Pouncing Charge and TWF with a couple of kukris at full Strength bonus for both hands? Yes please!).

[SCPRedMage]

It might be a good idea to discuss Iron Heart Surge with your DM. It's one of the more badly-written maneuvers, which leads to some people interpreting it can "end any condition" such as "the world existing" or something ridiculous like that. Come up with a list of things it actually does.

That isn't a problem with the wording so much as it's a problem with people just being plain stupid.

EDIT: Let me put it this way: the wording of Iron Heart Surge makes it quite clear what "condition" means, and anyone who would ever argue along the lines you mentioned needs to be slapped for blatant munchkinry.