I created my BBEG with flavor, and now can't come up with a decent build!

[Twilight Jack]

He's a half-elf bard who is secretly a thrall of the Demon Prince(ss) Malcanthet. He is currently manipulating the party into releasing the imprisoned half-god son of the Demon Queen (long story) from its tomb deep below the earth. The campaign is fairly long-term, and I didn't bother writing stats for the bard when he was first introduced, because I knew it would be a long time before the players ever had to confront him in any direct fashion.

Well, that time has almost come, and every time I try statting him up, it just doesn't pan out. The PCs are about 7th level now, and I want the bard to be a much tougher fight than they're initially expecting. But a bard's main base utility is as a support character, and that's not the direction I want to go.

So, then, any ideas for how to stat an effective bard villain for a party of six 7th level PCs? I fear that I painted myself into a corner by conceiving him purely for the flavor, instead of giving more thought to the mechanical difficulties in store.

[Ponce]

Multiclass out to crusader and take Song of the White Raven. Much sturdier and mildly divine.

[afroakuma]

As a threatening solo fight? For a party of 6, he'll need to be around level 11 or 12. Deck him out with save-or-suck magic items, a couple of wands and a potion of whatever the PCs aren't prepared for. I'd personally go the minions route, but that's my take. Since he's working with Malcanthet, a wand of summon monster for a couple of imp hazards could do wonders.

[Twilight Jack]

I'd prefer that he be more tricksy than fight-y, given his proclivities thus far, so Crusader probably isn't my best bet. I was strongly considering a swordsage build, but that really starts to verge on multiple attribute disorder.

No worse than multiclassing into a Cleric of Malcanthet, I suppose. . .

[afroakuma]

A 12th level bard can use summon monster IV for support while he does his own trickery. Shadow conjuration, rainbow pattern, dominate person and greater invisibility are also all available to him.

Couple any of those with haste, confusion, crushing despair and mirror image for a quick, tricky BBEG fight.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Inspire Courage+Dragonfire Inspiration+mooks=DEATH

Seriously, he's a Bard. He has Charisma that would make Sean Connery jealous. He should never be alone. Use the Inspire Courage maxing stuff to really make the party scared.

[DSCrankshaw]

Consider possible prestige classes. Sublime Chord (Complete Arcane) gives him some significant spell casting, but you can't start that until 11th level. Seeker of the Song (Complete Arcane) gives some offensive bardsongs. Virtuoso (Complete Adventurer) has some interesting bardsongs too. Or, and I think I like this one the best, make him into a Beguiler (PHB 2) instead. Beguilers can reasonably impersonate a bard (it's even there in the class description), and have a ton of spells, all based around illusion and enchantment. That would surprise your PCs.

[Prometheus]

I say go with the Summon Monster thing, but make it happen without the Bard expending an action and make the Bard a lower level. A continuous steam of imps is when support really shines.

[Skjaldbakka]

He's a half-elf bard who is secretly a thrall of the Demon Prince(ss) Malcanthet.

That screams bard/warlock gestalt to me. Running villains meant to be fought [solo] as gestalt is something I have done a time or two.

That being said, bard needs minions. Minions that are buffed before the party shows up. And the bard should be invisible and casting heals and buffs on his minions during the fight, while also summoning and maintaining an illusion of himself in a position that is really hard for the PCs to get to.

[Rei_Jin]

Hmm...

Have you considered making him a bard/barbarian? Give him the snowflake wardance feat from Frostburn, and do a Vile Words of Creation (as opposed to Darkspeech, which sucks as a feat) so that he can give himself awesome bonuses to attack and damage.

Also, MAD doesn't matter when he's a BBEG. Set stats are for PCs, not for NPCs.

[Enlong]

This may make him challenging.

[afroakuma]

Skjaldbakka has the right of it. Charmed human and summoned fiend minions supported by bardic music from a major image while he himself is invisible. Greater invisibility with a wand of heat metal, for example, would just make him a real pain, since imps need to be fought off.

[Nerd-o-rama]

If you don't give him a cadre of strong flunkies (and I really recommend you do, it's what bards and schemers do), I recommend the Snowflake Wardance feat from Frostburn, so you have something to do with all your bardic music that you aren't using to buff people.

[Eldariel]

You could indeed make a Bard quite the decent caster; entering Sublime Chord wouldn't hurt, and you've got access to Metamagic Song and Sublime Chord's Song of Arcane Power if you go level 12 (although that may be a wee bit high - still, Metamagic Song is quite a solid feat for them). Other than that, summoning something to sing for is indeed a fine plan. If he's a trickster, I could see lots of efficient fun being had with illusions.

[Zweanslord]

Unless you told your players flat out he is a bard in the mechanical sense of the word, what is wrong with taking another class and not use the bard class at all? The villain could well be a npc who has perform (something) and functions as a bard as per flavour; telling stories, travelling around and having social skills.
A rogue who has invested in social skills, but strikes down with sneak attack in combat is an option. Alternatively, a beguiler, illusionist, sorcerer or swashbuckler could fit the bill with a bit of work.
Or extending this, perhaps he is not a bard at all but just poses as one with the help of some magic items that made him seem like a bard, such as an item that boosted his perform and disguise skills.

This is naturally a suggestion which may allow you to extend beyond the class label of a bard, or it may be useless. In any case, the advice provided int he posts above does seem quite good when you do use a normal bard.

[Twilight Jack]

Unless you told your players flat out he is a bard in the mechanical sense of the word, what is wrong with taking another class and not use the bard class at all? The villain could well be a npc who has perform (something) and functions as a bard as per flavour; telling stories, travelling around and having social skills.
A rogue who has invested in social skills, but strikes down with sneak attack in combat is an option. Alternatively, a beguiler, illusionist, sorcerer or swashbuckler could fit the bill with a bit of work.
Or extending this, perhaps he is not a bard at all but just poses as one with the help of some magic items that made him seem like a bard, such as an item that boosted his perform and disguise skills.

This is naturally a suggestion which may allow you to extend beyond the class label of a bard, or it may be useless. In any case, the advice provided int he posts above does seem quite good when you do use a normal bard.

Yes, I had long ago decided that he might not be a bard at all mechanically speaking. On the other hand, that's where his original concept lies, so that is how I present it. I'm looking over Beguilers, and so far I'm digging what I see. What are some good prestige class options for them?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

May I suggest Warlock? It's a sneaky arcane class, whose flavor is 'you have sold your soul to x', which fits perfectly with what you're trying to do. Even better, it can UMD wands perfectly fine. At level 9, he has 12 ranks in UMD, which means he never fails when trying to UMD a wand.

You can use the Devil's Sight/Darkness combo to hamper the Good Guys pretty effectively.

Here's my suggestion vs a level 7 party:

Level 9 Warlock
Invocations:
Devil's Sight
Darkness
Choose one additional Least (Dark One's Own Luck if your party has some obnoxious save-or-loose, Beguiling Influence to represent his additional sneakiness and manipulativeness)
Walk Unseen
Flee the Scene

Tactics:

He starts off invisible, then starts using his Darkness ability to start giving everyone troubles targeting, without hampering himself at all. Then he starts sniping at whomever he feels he will give him the worst trouble, at a 5d6 touch attack. If someone closes, use Flee The Scene to pop somewhere else in the room, drop Walk Unseen, and start ghosting around for another snipe.

They should be able to take him down, it'll be easier if the party has a method of seeing invisible, and someone is going to find out that 5d6 can hurt badly. But the healbot should be able to dish out about that much healing, so no one should actually die.

Even better, if you want him to be a re-occuring villian, Flee the Sceen + Walk Unseen and he give a Kefka laugh, trot out the 'and your little dog too' speech, and take off. Odds are they won't be able to find him, and once they loose LoS, he's outta there.

[Twilight Jack]

May I suggest Warlock? It's a sneaky arcane class, whose flavor is 'you have sold your soul to x', which fits perfectly with what you're trying to do. Even better, it can UMD wands perfectly fine. At level 9, he has 12 ranks in UMD, which means he never fails when trying to UMD a wand.

A wonderful build, that one of the players in the group is already employing for his own character. This guy is not supposed to be "just like your character, but higher level," so it pretty much eliminates it as an option.

[Tacoma]

Have the big encounter happen in his underground lair in a cavern music hall. He's dressed in an old-style gentleman's suit and big black cloak with a high collar and red lining. He's seated at a grand pipe organ on a stage. The high ceiling is lost in darkness.

As the players enter, he shouts that they're just in time for the show!

He plays a terrifying tune that makes the ground rumble and shake. A split in the ground opens up between the seating area where the PCs are and the stage. Players will have to jump or fly over the 20' gap.

The tune also stirs the hundreds of common (Tiny) bats in the ceiling that are under the bard's very simple control. He orders them to attack, but they mainly just swarm around and bite randomly (but not on the bard). Due to the nature of the bard, his organ, and the music hall, his bardic song bonuses apply to all his allies anywhere in the hall - including the bats.

On the second round he strikes a second tune that causes a low-DC fear (not the kind that makes you flee, the kind that gives roll penalties) again to all enemies throughout the music hall. This round zombie ushers in cheap suits shuffle out from side corridors and attack, mainly tying up the PCs' henchmen, familiars, summoned creatures, and such. They might not be able to kill off enough bats but they certainly can feel good about blasting some zombies.


Of course the party Cleric will be trying to Turn the bard. He's not a vampire. He's just very stylish.

If a PC gains the stage, zombie actors in rotting costumes will move in from the sides of the stage to intercept.

The bard's organ can produce the following effects, which take the bard's standard action and provoke an attack of opportunity:

Fear (as above)
Stinking Cloud (which must be placed adjacent to the organ)
Shatter (affects glass objects throughout the room, such as the bard's monocle and all the PCs' potions)

At any time the bard can stand up from the bench by spending 5' of his movement and continue moving away, still receiving his other action, and he's obviously not prone while sitting on the bench. If anyone starts to really slice up his zombie actors or more than one PC makes it to the stage, he spends one round getting up and moving over to beside the organ where there are some stage ropes hanging, and draws a dagger. On the second round he grabs a rope, slices a nearby rope, and swiftly rises to the ceiling as a 300-pound bag of sand lands on an adjacent square (which might hit someone trying to attack him). The third round he leaps off the rope into an upper gallery above the stage where the lighting is mounted on wooden beamwork and escapes.

If this escape route is a bad choice, he can slither behind the organ to a concealed door (currently open) which he closes behind him and stops moving all in a single round. The following round he drops a wooden bar to lock the door and moves down the stairs to a storage area below the stage where all the stage props are stored. There are some backup zombie stagehands down here to slow down pursuers.

Of course the bard might not be able to flee. Players often kill off your big evil guy unexpectedly. If this happens, it must be dramatic. For example, if the final damage that would drop the bard unconscious was caused by a sword wound or necromantic spell, don't just have the bard drop dead.

"Your sword stabs straight into the bard's chest. He suddenly stops and looks very surprised. He looks down at the sword and the spreading red splotch on his puffy white shirt. He staggers back against the wall and coughs. Blood drips from his lips. The bard raises a lace handkerchief to his mouth and coughs again. He smiles, his white teeth outlined in red, and says "This ... a palpable hit ..." and seems to have more to say but instead he slumps to sit against the wall. He coughs again twice and falls over. He's not moving."

After all. This dude is supposed to be important, right?

EDIT: The above quote is from Hamlet. Pick a bunch of literary quotes you like and write them out so you have them handy. Whenever the bard says something, if it's close to one of your quotes in meaning, use the quote instead.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A wonderful build, that one of the players in the group is already employing for his own character. This guy is not supposed to be "just like your character, but higher level," so it pretty much eliminates it as an option.

Warlock4/Rogue5?
Darkness + Devil's Sight

Darkness grants concealment. With a high enough hide check, he won't need see the unseen. Rogue, as a skillmonkey, gets bluff and intimidate anyways.

He still does 5d6, it's just that 3d6 of it is now sneak attack.

And he can UMD without a problem either, so he can grab wands.

[Aergoth]

Multiclass to a generic class (Variant, SRD) and steal all the shiny new feats and class features you want. :) Remember, BARD is only a job description. A rogue with points in perform and a lyre is a bard.

[Frerezar]

beguiler 4 / warlock 3 / eldritch disciple 5 might do the trick. Beguiler is tricky and cn fool an entyre party for an extended period of time. Warlock synergizes nicely with it, and him being like one of the PC'S just better (not just higher level but better) fits also. Wit enought trickery yu might be able to cast antimagic field and place it on a spellblast launched at the group's caster. i cant imagine anything sneakier or lower than doign that. If he needs to go into melee ive him eldritch glaiv wich is prettyd ecent fr that. For defensive propouses just make him try to rmain invisible or cast displaement. That should make him enought of a pin in the ass while remain flavorfull (both sneaky and demony)

[The Mormegil]

Gestalt is THE WAY. Bard 10 // Cleric 10 may be just enough.

Problem MAD: huh? and you think my perfect BBEG is just another pitiful adventurer? He's OF COURSE better, so he's got all 18 and two 22s as base stats, with +5 inherent to every relevant one and double level augments (exageration). No, really, they're never gonna know. So make him as you wish. Use PC rules only as guidelines. Do not be afraid of giving him profane bonuses to, well, everything just because. It's an old DM trick and it always work wonders.

Now, the encounter may go like this:
Phase 1: "So you've found out, pitiful humans. Well, you may now die an horrible death."
Greater Invisibility, Ghost Sound to talk, Inspire Dragonfire Courage at +4 (+2 class, +1 Inspirational Boost, +1 Music of the Heart), cast healing and buff spells on summoned minions. Divine Metamagic (Quicken) to drop some Summons IV, then off to buffing.
Phase 2: "Huh, you've defeated my henchmen. But now you shall see my TRUE POWER!"
He's buffed (DMM: Persist) with Clericzilla buffs (don't forget to include Balor Nimbus! Useless, but oh hell so cool on him!). He's still invisible (hopefully), so he gets in and out of melee, no full attacks but many hit and run tactics.
Phase 3: "Uuurgh! You've almost defeated me. But I'm stronger yet, you're never gonna win. Beware the power of Malcanthet!"
Drops a Summon Monster Something Scroll on them that keeps them at bay with a great demon or devil or something. Then flees.

[Frerezar]

I would avoid gestalting for NPC's in a game where the option wasn't presenetd to PC's. It just seems like the DM is pulling something otu of his arse just to overpower them. the system offers enought options to make an alternate rule unnecesary

[Twilight Jack]

I would avoid gestalting for NPC's in a game where the option wasn't presenetd to PC's. It just seems like the DM is pulling something otu of his arse just to overpower them. the system offers enought options to make an alternate rule unnecesary

Yeah, I don't use Gestalt characters in my games for this precise reason. I like a bit of verisimilitude, and allowing options to my bad guys that I wouldn't allow my players violates that quite a bit.

[Frerezar]

Good, so I insist on the eldritch theurge idea. It transforms a one trick pony (warlock) into a force to be reckoned with.

[sleepy]

I would avoid gestalting for NPC's in a game where the option wasn't presenetd to PC's. It just seems like the DM is pulling something otu of his arse just to overpower them. the system offers enought options to make an alternate rule unnecesary

You're right, you shouldn't make gestalt npc's for your party to fight, that would make them have higher stats and better abilities. Instead give them more class levels, all that increases is their stats and abi... wait.

Really though, unless you explicitely tell your players how you arrived at the numbers on the character sheet, who's to say it isn't a higher level multiclass character with a few atypical proportions, a character with blessings from the dark powers he serves, or some other fanciful explaination to how this particular fellow came to sufficient power to cause BBEG level trouble?

If your players ask you what classes he took to get like that, send them on a quest to discover his past.



edit: just out of curiosity, I quickly looked at wiz 4//barb 4 gestalt (first combo that came to mind, low level for simplicity) and wondered how far off it was from a higher level multiclass character. barb 2/wiz 4 has the same BAB, is within 1 average hp with a con bonus of 1 or 2, identical saves, twice his int bonus extra skill points but cross-class important skills for two levels, and loses trapsense +1 and 1 rage/day but gains a feat and a higher total hit dice. The two characters are practically interchangeable except for WBL, the ignoring of which won't be questioned. I don't think that gestalt would stick out.

[Fawsto]

Hvae you evr heard about "Plotwise Powers"?

I mean, this BBEG can have anything you want him to have. Simple like that.

If you are expecting an obvious final match, select the abilities that would turn him into a chalenge to every party member.

See ya.