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2012-06-12, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
Title.
Some monsters seem... oddly constructed. It seems like it'd be more faithful of their abilities to do them differently in certain areas...
Like the Hydra. It's always listed as 1 monster, when it seems like it should be treated as multiple creatures... just bound within a certain distance of the body, which would also count as a creature...
Also, monster sizes are odd. The colossal monsters are too small in my book for how big they should be... Godzilla kinda laughs at them.
Anything else seem... odd? Or am I just being odd.
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2012-06-12, 03:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2010
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- Hell's Heart
Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
Monster sizes are odd. The Tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, yet it takes up a mere 30 foot cube in combat.
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2012-06-12, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Cydonia
Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
The MM suffers from "we're...not really sure what we're doing, here goes!"
Look at the monsters in the MM3, you'll see a huge difference.
That said, I think they handled the hydra fairly well.
As for the tarrasque, I think it mostly stands like a crouching human, the 70ft. length is mostly from the tail.
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2012-06-12, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
You should check out Legend's way of doing hydras - treated as a mass of multiple creatures with a central HP pool, or a "myriad." Uses the same system for things like mobs and other swarms of small enemies in large numbers.
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2012-06-12, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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2012-06-12, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Kitchener/Waterloo
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
The Hydra is one creature, though. If it were multiple creatures in one place they could take separate class levels, or have different buffs. What you want is one creature that incentivizes attacking the heads. While the hydra's stats as they are aren't the ideal way of doing it, making it multiple creatures isn't obviously superior.
As for Colossal, it's not supposed to represent Godzilla-esque creatures. Godzilla-sized creatures are implausible within the rubric of D&D combat, and function more as environmental hazards.Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2012-06-12, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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2012-06-12, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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- Louisville, KY
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2012-06-13, 12:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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2012-06-13, 12:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
As I'm majoring in biology, the surface-area to volume ratio of monsters like the tarrasque somewhat bothers me. They would likely overheat and die from simply moving around too much
(i.e. a high metabolism would kill it)Last edited by Augulus; 2012-06-13 at 12:45 AM.
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2012-06-13, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
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- Look behind you.
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
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2012-06-13, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Cydonia
Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
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2012-06-13, 02:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- The Great PNW
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
Even ignoring the Wish or Miracle (even if it didn't die, it'd pass out from the non-lethal damage if it overheated), there are ways to get around it:
Those spikes could be highly vascularized like a stegosaurus's plates or an elephant's ears. Its neck frill and long thin arms and fingers could likewise help regulate its temperature. Its mouth is also enormous and could potentially be used for evaporative cooling like a dog.
Finally, it spends most of its time underground and dormant. It could very well come out only at night or during periods of cold weather, which would protect it from overheating somewhat.
Or, y'know, magic.Last edited by Jeff the Green; 2012-06-13 at 02:56 AM.
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2012-06-13, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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2012-06-14, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
The only cat girl I really know and like has fought Gods and survived. So I'm cool with this thread. The earlier remark about needing a Wish to finish the Tarrasque... that was epic. VGLord gets cookies.
..... you can't tell me that facing a Hydra so intelligent enough to have one head study Divine Magic, one study Arcane Magic, one study Bardic Magic, one having Barbarian Anger Issues, and one study Stealth, wouldn't be terrifying, confusing, and awesome... be sure as heck worth a massive CR... although maybe monsters like that shouldn't be allowed to take class levels in the first place if that's such a problem.
Eh. other than the extra rolls, I don't see why it wouldn't be wrong to count each of the hydra's heads as a creature in addition to it's body. It just sounds like a much better fight than just being swarmed by 1 creature hitting # of head times in 1 round...
Godzilla would be offended by you calling him an environmental hazard. And there's nothing wrong with fighting a mountain. I still wish they didn't move that Shadow of the Colossus PBP game. I was enjoying that...
And that doesn't change that so many creatures are ... punny in D&D. I always look at real life Elephants seeing how much bigger in every way they are to me, and I can't help but feel ashamed by them in D&D.Last edited by INoKnowNames; 2012-06-14 at 10:48 AM. Reason: Must avoid the double post
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2012-06-14, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- The Great PNW
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
Author of The Auspician's Handbook and The Tempestarian's Handbook for Spheres of Power.Greenman by Bradakhan/Spring Greenman by Comissar/Autumn Greenman by Sgt. Pepper/Winter Greenman by gurgleflep
Ask me (or the other authors) anything.
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2012-06-14, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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- Brazil
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2012-06-15, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Cydonia
Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
You don't think 30 str and huge size are big enough for an elephant?
SpoilerHit Dice: 11d8+55 (104 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (–2 size, +7 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+26
Attack: Gore +16 melee (2d8+15)
Full Attack: Slam +16 melee (2d6+10) and 2 stamps +11 melee (2d6+5); or gore +16 melee (2d8+15)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Trample 2d8+15
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +6
Abilities: Str 30, Dex 10, Con 21, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 7
Skills: Listen +12, Spot +10
Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Listen)
Those are the stats for an elephant. Looks pretty badass to me.
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2012-06-15, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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2012-06-15, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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- Curitiba, Brasil
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
I kinda more or less always figured that the Long creature's space was mosty the body, with Reach being useful for more or less show where the tail / claws / neck and everything reach.
So, the tarrasque is 30ft side, but if you consider reach, it would be quite larger...My Homebrew
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2012-06-15, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
While I thought that an Elephant was just Large Sized in D&D, the strength and damage presented here seems a bit too low for something that is sturdy enough to force a train to derail (admitedly at the cost of it's own life, but still), or strong enough to man handle a car.
Gah... no one wants to make up their minds...
This kinda makes me think about that image down there. Those people don't look like they take up a 5 ft square... or that beast looks like it takes up a heck of a lot more room than it does in game...
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2012-06-15, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
Do you guys remember the AD&D elephant?
5 attacks per round.
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2012-06-16, 01:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
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2012-06-16, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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2012-06-16, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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- North Carolina
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
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2012-06-16, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
That reminds me; I so gotta go bug that Dm about his Shadow of the Colossus PBP game. He better have campaign logs!
I swear there was a picture showing the various sizes of characters and monsters compared to each other, that spurned a bit of an argument when I thought the picture was drawn to scale for the game, when it was horribly inflated... The Dragon looked like a Mini Godzilla, despite definitely not taking up that much room normally.
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2012-06-16, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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Re: Why is the Hydra one creature? And other such things.
everyone knows the tarasque pants like a dog, yawns a lot (been linked to cooling the human brain) sweats profusely, and has cooling vents hidden behind those spines.