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2013-12-20, 02:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
1: Thanks for the ability score explanation.
2: The homebrew has been used before. An effect that could be caused by the homebrew has been used this time. Going from that to "the homebrew was used this time" doesn't strike me as a huge leap of logic.
3: At "Soul Splice" time, was V level 15, or level 14? If 14, that would be quite an impressive jump, going for 14 to 16 on that few encounters. No?
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2013-12-20, 02:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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2013-12-20, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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2013-12-20, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Starting from this comic, which is the start of the current oots day, (hurrah 1 day, 101 pages and counting), I went through them counting all of V's spells and got 23.
Counting V's ring of wizardry, and assuming the Geekery thread is correct on the level and intelligence (15 and 23) V should have 38 spells per day. For him to have "in excess of 25" he needs to be able to cast atleast 49 spells per day.
Is this evidence of his level and/or intelligence being higher?
edit: read the most recent posts, and using level 16 and int 24, he should still only be at 42 spells per dayLast edited by gamingfreak10; 2013-12-20 at 03:47 PM.
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2013-12-20, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
V specifies that it will take a day for them to reach the Order, so the current day would begin when they rejoin the team.
Originally Posted by The Giant
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2013-12-20, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Here are the encounters.
V turning the giant fiend to stone
V killing Kubota. (The previous two happened before V left to go to the island to be alone. Since no encounters happened between the battle and when V left, V may have leveled to 14 here, or has been level 14 for a while.)
Black Dragon (Possibly gave no xp, and V most likely isn't level 15 yet.)
Xykon(Probably gave no xp)
Divorce Lawyer
Slavers
Purple Wyrm
Finding Girard's message, and escaping the blast.
(Bounty Hunters come. V must be 15 by now. However, V may have been 15 before this.)
Freeing the slaves from the Empire of Blood
The battle with Z, and the battle with the kobold.
Saving Gootrude from a dragon.
Somewhere after the Black Dragon V became 15. Since the Black dragon said V only had 6th and 7th level Spell slots.
A level 16 Wizard gets 28 spell slots.
V is a specialist, so add 8. 28 + 8= 36
Int 24 grants 10 bonus spells. 10 + 36 = 46
Ring of Wizadry grants 4 spells. 46 + 4 = 50.
Spoiler: Spells V has cast todaySpells V has casted today
1. Overland flight on V.
2. Greater Dispel Magic.
3. Pass wall
4. Quickened Expeditious Retreat.
5. Bugsby hand.
6. stone skin
7. fireball
8. wall of fire
9. protection from arrows
10. lightning bolt
11. fly
12. chain lightning
13. scorching ray
14. lightning bolt
15. hold monster
16. lightning bolt
17. prismatic spray
18. disintegrate
19. Bugsby hand
20. Bugsby hand(again)
21. cone of cold
22. force cage
23. dimensional anchor
24. resilient sphere
50(Spells V can cast) - 24(Spells V cast today) = 26(Spells left over.)
26 is in excess of 25.Last edited by Codyage; 2013-12-20 at 04:20 PM.
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2013-12-20, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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2013-12-20, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
V could just be bluffing, right? After all, the gambit worked because Laurin didn't suspect that V would know her approximate level and thus the points she was working with.
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2013-12-20, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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2013-12-20, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-12-20, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- Denmark
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
The "IFCC refills" isn't an explanation, and it has zero backing. The fact that a soul splice rejuvenates the subject to full spellcasting capability does not indicate whether or not the Directors can do the same thing at any old time.
V likely levelled to 16 while he was on his own on the Plane of Elemental Ranch Dressing. We know he did at least some adventuring while there. If he levelled to 16, he got a stat increase, which he likely put into Int, increasing it from 23 to 24. It is by far the more reasonable explanation.
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2013-12-20, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
The fact that we can do the math here and work out that V leveled makes me think the Giant keeps more careful track of his characters' stats than he lets on in the forums.
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2013-12-20, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Yes, teh splice is a home brew. So is a "healing" that gives you all your hit points back, and gives you all your spell slots back, AND fills those spots with spells.
That is what happened to V last time, yes?
The IFCC could have held V's body in an unchanging stasis. They didn't. They returned it to V with all V's hit points back. Last time they restored all of V's hit points, they also restored and filled all of V's spell slots. No?
So, either they did that, again, or V went from "just made it to level 15", to level 16, in the space of one fight on screen, and one "adventure" in the land of ranch dressing.
Is any of the above incorrect?
If not, I'm done. You believe what you want, I'll believe what I want, and we'll wait to see if the comic gives us any reason to support one idea over the other.
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2013-12-20, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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2013-12-20, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
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2013-12-20, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
I apologize for the derail of the V discussion, but since it looks like Laurin has left combat, would it be possible to calculate her INT, Level and the like? It looks like Zimmer did that with V's casting by pretending different INTs and levels. If it is possible, we could figure out the level Wormhole would have to be
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2013-12-20, 05:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- Denmark
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Yes. By being soul spliced.
Assuming that it is possible in any other manner is pure speculation with absolutely no evidence to back it up.
Unless you are suggesting that V has been soul spliced again, which I think we can safely dismiss as a possibility, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that the IFCC replenished his spell repertoire.
Especially since we have a far more reasonable explanation.
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2013-12-20, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
What you're doing here is a propositional fallacy. You're saying "If Soul Splice, then full hit points. Full hit points, therefore Soul Splice."
Either that or you're just not comprehending that the Soul Splice is what enables those things to have happened. V has most assuredly NOT been Spliced. It was called a "once in a century" thing, first of all, and it hasn't even been a year yet let alone a full century. In addition, there's no change in his appearance and there's no soul(s) talking to him.
Now, could the Fiends have some other method to restore hit points and spell slots? Sure, but there's no evidence whatsoever of that. Even if we grant that they did, we only know the Splice does both. Some other method need not do both.
Meanwhile, V's statement can be quantified by the rules. I think it's better to go with the rules-based interpretation first.
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2013-12-20, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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2013-12-20, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Greg, please follow this link to the board rules.
Courteously,
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2013-12-20, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- empty space
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Part of what non-players are missing, I think, is that while effects that heal a character completely are relatively common, replenishing all spells is extremely powerful and as far as I know nothing in RAW can do that. It was named specifically as a side-effect of the splice in part because it's so unusual. Invoking that effect when it hasn't been explicitly named is borderline silly.
I like semicolons; they make me feel smart.
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2013-12-20, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Yeah I know. Their are so many ways V could have gotten XP. It is kind of overwhelming to try and do all the math.
Communicating with Blackwing and trying to be on good terms could be Rp XP.
The Instant Summons guy, and the Divorce itself could be Rp XP.
The (possibly) Thri-keen slavers, and their beetles.
The Purple Worm.
Girard's message, could be considered a trap, and even Quest XP, since now they need to seek anyone who may be claiming in the bet.
Then we go into, saving the slaves, fighting Z and YukYuk alone.
Finally we have the three days in the Plane of Ranch Dressing were V at the least, restored a prince to the throne, and saved a princess from a dragon.
Not to mention if the Xykon battle, or Familicide, also granted any XP.Last edited by Codyage; 2013-12-20 at 05:46 PM.
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2013-12-20, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Familicide seems unlikely, and you don't get xp from getting beaten... oh... you mean the part where he saved OChul and used his class feature (blackwing) to throw Xykon's soul into a sewer.
DM might call that one a draw, so what would that be, half experience? Against Xykon? Even split with O'Chul that might be a lot.
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2013-12-20, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Speaking of fallacies, what about "fake precision" you keep arguing that soul splice is something special.
In the soul splice, the three directors inserted souls into V's body, and V's spell slots and HP were replenished.
And the same thing happened here. The director inserted a soul into V's body. And v's Hp were replenished.
So it should be plainly obvious that spell slots being replenished is a reasonable possibility. Doesn't mean it actually happened, but it's enough to cast a reasonable doubt on the idea that V must be 16lv 24int.
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2013-12-20, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- empty space
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2013-12-20, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-12-20, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
Last edited by b_jonas; 2013-12-20 at 06:49 PM.
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2013-12-20, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-12-20, 06:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page
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2013-12-20, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Penthouse Suite
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