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2019-08-02, 03:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
"Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
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"Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."
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2019-08-02, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not sure Durkon would be willing to risk the world ending just to show that he now values drama due to Elan. Seeing other viewpoints as valid is laudable, risking the lives of an entire planet to demonstrate that you do is not so much.
Going straight to smashing the table still seems like the more logical move. The point is to prevent the vote, not kill the Vampire-Formerly-Known-as-the-Exarch.
That's possible.
Still, from a narrative perspective, the table needed to break. Durkon hitting it and breaking it in one attack is pretty much indistinguishable from his "throw and return" tactic, and arguably has a higher likelihood of success. It's an enchanted hammer wielded by a high level Cleric, after all. I don't doubt one attack would have been enough, and it gives far less time for the vote to completed.
Oh, well, Giant's story, Giant's decision; I just think hitting the table directly makes more sense. Maybe it'll come up in a future strip.Last edited by CandidKid; 2019-08-02 at 08:53 PM.
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2019-08-02, 04:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2011
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
I want to take a moment to gloat and say, "I called it!"
When I said Durkon would win by knowing the rules better than the vampires the critics declared that pulling out some obscure, unforshadowed rule would be anticlimatic and dumb.
So, nuh-unh! Thbbbbt!
Of course, this was my one thousandth prediction, and until this one I had a perfect record; 100% wrong, so it was a good bet.
As for the table:
Durkon attacked the roof instead of the table for one reason. Stonecunning.
Dwarves don't get a racial feat which gives them an advantage vs. wood but they do gain such a bonus vs. stone and stonework.
Also, add me to the list of folks who think Sigdi is trying to provoke Gonetor. Whether he gets stoned by the blue barrier or whether he is distracted while Durkon reanimates, it's a win for Team Thundershield.
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2019-08-02, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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2019-08-02, 04:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
I think you're missing the part where Sigdi is basically crediting Thor for guiding the hammer. I'd say the outcome isn't nearly as random as you're making it out to be.
And while it does seem likely that Durkon could have broken the table, he didn't have a good shot from where he was. He can't get airborne the way Belkar can, so he'd have to push some dwarves out of his way to get at the table. Depending on just how thorough the laws are, interfering with the meeting might get Durkon turned to stone before he ever got a clear shot at the table. Even if that wasn't a concern, the vampires don't have to attack Durkon to interfere with him. Merely standing in the way would be enough.
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2019-08-02, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- In the Heart of Europe
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Beautiful, funny and with perfect attention to detail.
Thank you once again, Rich!A neutron walks into a bar and says, “How much for a beer?” The bartender says, “For you? No charge.”
01010100011011110010000001100010011001010010000001 10111101110010001000000110111001101111011101000010 00000111010001101111001000000110001001100101001011 100010111000101110
Later: An atom walks into a bar an asks the bartender “Have you seen an electron? I left it in here last night.” The bartender says, “Are you sure?” The atom says, “I’m positive.”
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2019-08-02, 05:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
That is smart. Imagine the following conversation.
Hel: You interfered! You manipulated that hammer to break the table!
Thor: So? It didn't block any action or undo any effect. They could have just carried on as if nothing happened but they chose to follow their own rules. We create these kind of messages all the time, especially when our clerics are involved. If you want to manipulate objects with your holy symbol on it to break mortal's furniture, go right ahead.Last edited by warmachine; 2019-08-02 at 05:53 AM.
Matthew Greet
My purpose in life is to play games.
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2019-08-02, 06:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
I love that the rules refer to the corpse of a tree. Essentially, the dwarves insist council votes are made on the preserved remains of what they regard as a vanquished, large enemy.
Matthew Greet
My purpose in life is to play games.
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2019-08-02, 06:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2019
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2019-08-02, 06:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
You see, this is the difference between a rules lawyer and a rules master. The Lawyer knows which rules they need to follow, and how. The master knows which rules they need to break, and how.
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2019-08-02, 08:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-08-02, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- Milwaukee
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Reason Durkon didn't attack the table directly... Wood has a hardness of 5, and 10 HP per inch of thickness... You'd be looking at doing 65 HP or so with one strike. No way he'd be able to break it with a single attack.
I can totally imagine a player getting creative to circumvent the rules and this happening at a gaming session though.Remember: It doesn't matter if you win or lose - as long as you look really cool doing it!
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2019-08-02, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2013
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Dwarves are just freaking awesome!
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2019-08-02, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Seems like it would have been simpler, albeit less dramatic, to just directly smash the table! Rule of cool, I guess.
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2019-08-02, 08:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Each one of us, alone, is but a drop in the sea
Our powers pale compared with the great heroes
Our battles don’t hit theheadlines or shake the earth
But they are few, can’t be everywhere, and we, many
So, when the world or universe needs saving, they come
But when people needs saving, we are the ones to appear
We're underdogs, but we rise up to the challenge to be heroes.
(Wishing Joe, a low-powered superhero)
"I really like the Geek Math'ology we do here"
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2019-08-02, 09:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-08-02, 09:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
No, because (as the collected minds have determined so far in this thread; the list is therefore and perforce not exhaustive):
- By seemingly attacking the ceiling so that light flooded in, the vampires where misdirected as to what was going on really, and thus were not in a position of preventing it (by, say, deflecting the hammer)
- A table is not an easy object to break, even with a large hammer. Its HP and hardness means Durkon might have needed more than one strike, and one strike is all he knew he'd get
- There are people in the way, which Durkon might hit, or at least cause him to miss the table while trying to not hit them
- Likely others I've forgotten - I find the three above to be the most solidly plausible reasons
If you hold out for the perfect solution, you don't get the decent one. OotS is not a story of unqualified successes: victory comes at a cost. Thor has already managed to liberate a year's worth of souls. Maybe a few more could still be liberated in the agreement, but the reality is that after a few years, souls loose their essential personality to the point where it cannot be recovered. Those souls "stuck inside her" for a couple of centuries have long been sickened into catatonia, I'm afraid, just like the CG souls have drugged themselves into mindlessness, and the ones in LE tortured into insanity.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-02 at 09:24 AM.
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-08-02, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-08-02, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
The point is not to prevent the vote, at least as I read it. The vote is regardless, whether now or later. The point is to have the vote to in the direction of not ending the world. If Durkon were able to kill all vampires, ending the domination effect so that the majority of members voted no that would solve the problem. Delaying the vote also solves the same problem, if only temporarily, but killing the vampires would solve it permanently. Which means going for the roof was the most efficient move.
That's how I'm reading it, in any event. Could be wrong.
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2019-08-02, 09:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Elaborate plz.
I dunno, I thought some of the quips were funny, but yeah I'm pretty satisfied with the vampires getting their undead asses handed to them too.
Nitpick: that's a 5e source, but fortunately 3.5e has that spell too.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2019-08-02, 09:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-08-02, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Question for the thread: what is the word cut off in the second paragraph, near the end, in the sentence "permit one (1) representative of each current ext... to stand before it simultaneously"?
Given the sentences above and below (above has "sufficient" and the below has "table" or "room"), it can be a large word, but can't be several, and I'm not sure what word would slot in there and make sense. A synonym of "representative", maybe?
Thanks!
I think the idea here is that frequently, the requirements given to a developer are sorely lacking in details. Honestly, these rules aren't that great. Witness the discussion over what they meant by "unbroken" in the thread so far. There is also a lack of detail on how closely you can pack the representatives.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-02 at 09:45 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-08-02, 09:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-08-02, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-08-02, 09:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Feels too long.
OK, lets go for the OCD approach:
Meetings of the Council of Clans shall take place in a hall expressly constructed for
such purpose. The hall shall be located no more than one thousand feet above
sea level. It shall be protected with such mystical defenses as decided previously by
the Council, except for the first such meeting during which such defences will be
determined by majority vote.
Votes shall take place at a table fashioned from the corpse of atree. The table shall be of one (1) piece, unbroken and bearing sufficient
circumference to permit one (1) representative of each currently ext???
to stand before it simultaneously. No vote shall be complete in any that
fail to meet these requirements.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-02 at 12:53 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-08-02, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-08-02, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-08-02, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
(moving this to its own post, since I suspect it was missed)
"Extant" and "current" are redundant, though. I'll accept that that is no impediment to this kind of document, but feels off. Besides, the document itself doesn't seem to have any other redundancies, so even though it'd fit the trope, it doesn't seem to be employing it.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-08-02 at 10:04 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-08-02, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-08-02, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1173 - The Discussion Thread
Well, a quick and dirty search shows fewer than 700 words beginning with ext, and we can jump to the bottom and work our way up.
Frankly, I'm a fan of "extern clan". Any clan not involved directly in government is still allowed in the Council of Clans. "But Peelee, that's a pretty big stretch," you say? Why, I totally agree, but I just learned that word and I'm running with it!
Also, I propose a small change in your otherwise stellar analysis, highlighted in blue: