Questionable Content XVIII: "That's only sort of good news"

[BRC]

I dunno, she seems to be very child like in personality. I rarely see actual grownups insist on being treated as a grownup. Thats something young teens do, and the way she says it strikes me as shockingly even younger than that.

If you're an actual grownup who is regularly mistaken for a child, I imagine that "Insist on being treated as an Adult" isn't an uncommon thing.


That said, it's possible that Jeph's writing can't really distinguish between "Adult that looks like a child and wants to be treated as an adult" and "Child who wants to be treated as an adult". As this current strip shows, it seems like we're supposed to sympathize with Elizabeth for wanting to be taken seriously, but everything else we see about her kind of makes that hard.

[Keltest]

I dunno, she seems to be very child like in personality. I rarely see actual grownups insist on being treated as a grownup. Thats something young teens do, and the way she says it strikes me as shockingly even younger than that.

Most actual adults get treated like adults by default though.

[BRC]

Also, even if she IS actually, like, 16 or whatever, having prodigied her way to a PHD at age 14, she still deserves to be respected as a colleague. Yeah, maybe don't buy her beer (Or do, this is Canada), but don't pick her up and call her adorable, and if she hates being called Lizzie...don't call her Lizzie.

[Vinyadan]

It's hard to tell what's actually going on. She could just be petite. But she could also have some form of autism-related problem that stops her from understanding how people form their opinion of you, so she keeps acting like an abrasive brat and a videogame character while claiming loud that she's an adult (sounds like the most QC solution).

If that's the case, it doesn't help that Cubetown seems like a hellhole. If you have mental health issues, what chances do you have that you will get better while working there? For what we've seen, it's like a psychotic outbreak after the other, with singing robo-skulls and a glowing tentacle director that makes goop sex dolls to immediately eat them, while those that survive act like they're constantly having a manic episode, to the point of inconvenience, unprofessionality, or outright self-destruction and death.

Their own fault, as the current Moray says! Quite the environment, really.

[Willie the Duck]

That said, it's possible that Jeph's writing can't really distinguish between "Adult that looks like a child and wants to be treated as an adult" and "Child who wants to be treated as an adult". As this current strip shows, it seems like we're supposed to sympathize with Elizabeth for wanting to be taken seriously, but everything else we see about her kind of makes that hard.

That said, it's possible that Jeph's writing can't really distinguish between "Adult that looks like a child and wants to be treated as an adult" and "Child who wants to be treated as an adult". As this current strip shows, it seems like we're supposed to sympathize with Elizabeth for wanting to be taken seriously, but everything else we see about her kind of makes that hard.

I think it makes sense if he's going for an 'insufferable genius' trope. We're supposed to sympathize with the not being taken seriously part, but still not necessarily like this character (at least at the moment). If this character was introduced in a plot that people generally liked, I wouldn't bat an eye at them -- they are meant to fill a specific need. I am guessing (almost pure speculation) that the story will proceed in telling how she was really bright and precocious oh such a young overachiever (and wanted you to know it) and the Cubetown robot octopus was fascinated with her and simply had to have her on staff and brought her on board and told her to 'go do genius things' and then... promptly forgot about her and let her stagnate and now she's twenty-X and just a person with two PhDs* and having done so really early doesn't matter anymore and why can't she get published, dammit?! Or something similar where her genius is wasted and now she has to warn Claire lest her genius** suffer a similar fate.
*which those of us who have been to grad school realize isn't better than one PhD and several years of putting it to good use. They aren't Pokemon or Pogs where you try to collect as many as you can.
***quality of retroactively being good at calling people out and get them organized or something.

[Wraith]

The gist of this plot is that this supposedly-genius character with personal experience of Cubetown is trying to convince Claire to not do something the Claire doesn't really want to do in a place that she doesn't like being.

If Claire takes this job she'll look like a lunatic. It could not be clearer that Cubetown is a shot-show, and it's still taken over 115 comics to get this far since the end of the interview let alone including the build up) and yet this assemblage of nonsense is being depicted as... controversial? Like, Lizzie is supposed to look insane and unreasonable because she's encouraging Claire to listen to her own instinct and not put wealth over her health and happiness?

[Kish]

If Elizabeth could be accurately described as a "child prodigy" two years ago, she's not twenty-X now.

Why she wants Claire not to take the job is currently unrevealed. I am not betting on any form of "because she has a good factual reason and has Claire's best interests at heart" reveal; she so far appears to be, however brilliant she is, also selfish, and deluded enough not to understand that real-world stealth doesn't work like Skyrim.

[DavidSh]

If Elizabeth could be accurately described as a "child prodigy" two years ago, she's not twenty-X now.

The Moray is speaking a little ambiguously, though. She could just mean that Elizabeth had been a child prodigy, just as one could say of Mozart.

[Kish]

If Elizabeth got up on a stage at 20 and Moray described her as a child prodigy--which, to be clear, I do not think is what's happening, I think she meant present tense and was speaking of someone not legally able to vote--then the question isn't why Elizabeth immediately blew up; the question is why Moray hasn't been justifiably fed to an orca in the two years since then.

And I say that as someone who neither likes Elizabeth, nor sympathizes with her in any general sense, nor expects either of those things to change.

[Johanny]

I wonder how many of us get this reference. I'm paranoid that I might be the only one.

This information is not available to your accreditation.
Asking for informations like this is susceptible of being subjected to be treated against seasonal treason.
Please join the nearest termination center.
The Computer is your friend.

[Gnoman]

Most actual adults get treated like adults by default though.

A woman I work with is actually older than most of the other people at my job. She is also about the size of a six year old and has a young face. A stunning amount of people have a regrettably hard time not accidentally infantilizing her.

[Willie the Duck]

If Elizabeth could be accurately described as a "child prodigy" two years ago, she's not twenty-X now.

She could have been 19 two years ago and still be a child prodigy if she just got double-PhDs. Regardless, twenty-X is not the point. The point is being a child prodigy is an ephemeral and transitory thing for which to be lauded. Having PhDs in general is -- to be clear, an incredible accomplishment, and I don't want to diminish the efforts of anyone here -- the kind of thing you get praised for at year Y in your life trajectory, and then by year Y+2, 4, or 10 people start asking, 'sure, but what have they done/discovered/published?' My speculation is that she was brought in as robot jellyfish's latest acquisition and then left to stagnate.

Why she wants Claire not to take the job is currently unrevealed. I am not betting on any form of "because she has a good factual reason and has Claire's best interests at heart" reveal; she so far appears to be, however brilliant she is, also selfish, and deluded enough not to understand that real-world stealth doesn't work like Skyrim.

True. Another option is that this is fiefdom defense. Perhaps she's spent the last two years trying to get stuff accomplished, and despite not wildly succeeding, still made some progress or at least adapted that into her current life's work. Suddenly this Claire person from somewhere else is brought in and is supposedly going to fix all these things Elizabeth has been working hard to fix (getting the institutional support Elizabeth never could).

A woman I work with is actually older than most of the other people at my job. She is also about the size of a six year old and has a young face. A stunning amount of people have a regrettably hard time not accidentally infantilizing her.

Height, gender, and apparent age -- all things with a surprising amount of undeserved weight in the immediate credibility people give in workplace situations. A frustrating problem I wish I had knew how to resolve.

The gist of this plot is that this supposedly-genius character with personal experience of Cubetown is trying to convince Claire to not do something the Claire doesn't really want to do in a place that she doesn't like being.

If Claire takes this job she'll look like a lunatic. It could not be clearer that Cubetown is a shot-show, and it's still taken over 115 comics to get this far since the end of the interview let alone including the build up) and yet this assemblage of nonsense is being depicted as... controversial? Like, Lizzie is supposed to look insane and unreasonable because she's encouraging Claire to listen to her own instinct and not put wealth over her health and happiness?

Fundamentally, this seems like the biggest issue with the storyline -- there is no credible conflict, stakes, or decision point. Claire didn't start out thinking she'd want this job, and nothing presented has made it more appealing. If there was some tension based on 'it's a nightmare, but I like challenges'/'I see a lot of potential here'/'there's a lot of good people I think I could help here' or the like, it would be different. As it stands, we either 1) see play out the 'this is a bad idea, you need to turn down a bad job offer' plotline we all saw coming 100 comics ago, 2) Claire decides to take the job because of the paycheck and we all complain that Jeph never sold the notion credibly, or 3) we learn some reason why it would actually be a good decision way too late in the storyline for people to change their minds about it being a good development.

[Vinyadan]

As it stands, we either 1) see play out the 'this is a bad idea, you need to turn down a bad job offer' plotline we all saw coming 100 comics ago, 2) Claire decides to take the job because of the paycheck and we all complain that Jeph never sold the notion credibly, or 3) we learn some reason why it would actually be a good decision way too late in the storyline for people to change their minds about it being a good development.

I would add, 4): Claire has declaired it her mission to effortlessly and non-theateningly kick ass. She now sees a place to kick ass, and she's drawn to it. (I actually see that phrase more of a case of mouthpiece for Jeff's intentions concerning Claire, but, relatively strictly speaking, she's the one who said that.)

[Ionathus]

I would add, 4): Claire has declaired it her mission to effortlessly and non-theateningly kick ass. She now sees a place to kick ass, and she's drawn to it. (I actually see that phrase more of a case of mouthpiece for Jeff's intentions concerning Claire, but, relatively strictly speaking, she's the one who said that.)

If I had more faith in the storytelling, I would believe this is the case - that Claire is being set up for an overachieving arc where she picks the worst possible option just to prove something to herself.

But everything about this arc so far has been so muddied that I really can't understand what I'm supposed to think about Cubetown based off the narrative I've been given. So I default to what I personally think of Cubetown, which is that it's a floating dumpster fire full of extremely intelligent twits, and I would like to leave now, please.

[Willie the Duck]

I would add, 4): Claire has declaired it her mission to effortlessly and non-theateningly kick ass. She now sees a place to kick ass, and she's drawn to it. (I actually see that phrase more of a case of mouthpiece for Jeff's intentions concerning Claire, but, relatively strictly speaking, she's the one who said that.)

Okay. I would have put that as part of my 2), with a side of my point about not seeing the selling of "'it's a nightmare, but I like challenges'/'I see a lot of potential here'/'there's a lot of good people I think I could help here' or the like." Basically in agreement.

[Vinyadan]

Claire has declaired

It took me a while to understand why I had made that typo...

[BRC]

If I had more faith in the storytelling, I would believe this is the case - that Claire is being set up for an overachieving arc where she picks the worst possible option just to prove something to herself.

But everything about this arc so far has been so muddied that I really can't understand what I'm supposed to think about Cubetown based off the narrative I've been given. So I default to what I personally think of Cubetown, which is that it's a floating dumpster fire full of extremely intelligent twits, and I would like to leave now, please.

Yeah, Jeph is clearly excited about Cubetown as a place to tell wacky vaguely sci-fi stories, which would be fine, but he's leaning a little too hard on the place being a nonfunctional mess. The closest thing we have for a reason why the whole enterprise hasn't collapsed is the Hyperintelligent Jellyfish in the basement who thinks in ways we mere humans cannot comprehend has pulled enough useful research out of this to keep the lights on.


It feels a little bit like he's setting up a "Chosen One" scenario as an excuse to move the story here. "The Hyperintelligent eldritch Jellyfish concluded that Claire is IDEALLY SUITED for whatever reason to bring some order to this place", so Claire can take the job and yell at some people and start turning the place functional, and it will all work because the Jellyfish figured it out.

Like, "reasonable Person brings order to town of mad science weirdos" isn't a BAD plot, it's basically the plot of the show Eureka. He's just leaning a little too hard on the wackiness. He's trying to do both "This place desperately needs somebody like Claire" while also having "Claire takes the job".


I feel like the whole arc could work a lot better if you reworked it a bit. For example


Cubetown HAS an information sciences division, a small one. They have an elderly librarian experienced in setting up records and archives for scientific institutions who is trying to get a consistent system set up, but they're overwhelmed and overworked.

Claire, a recent graduate, is offered a temporary position to assist this librarian in the initial process of getting the system established (You know, the sort of thing you'd hire a recent graduate for).

While working on this, Claire demonstrates an aptitude for getting the WACKY SCIENTISTS of Cubetown to behave like professionals. Meanwhile, our hypothetical experienced librarian may be very good at her job, but she's old, tired, and she's used to working with one or two eccentrics, not a full town of wacky scientists.

Timeskip, they get the IS department set up! At this point, Experienced Librarian drops a bombshell, she's been on Cubetown a year working on this project, and she's concluded that she doesn't have the energy to keep up with this place. Now that they have the system in place, she's going to retire, but Claire has proven herself adept at dealing with Cubetown, and since Claire helped the experienced librarian set the system up, she's familiar with it.


That gets us to the same place, but Claire gets the job because institutional familiarity + She's proven she can handle this environment, rather than because she was chosen by the Magic Jellyfish.


This entire "Interview" arc COULD be the "Claire helps get the system set up" arc. Yeah it may rankle a little that Claire takes the offer without visiting the place first, but 1) if it's a temporary position, that's not too bad, and 2) If the offer is coming from an experienced librarian looking for an assistant, rather than Moray, it makes a lot more sense for Claire to trust that the job is decent.

[Vinyadan]

I feel that Clinton would have been a better sidekick for Claire in this mission. He is less tolerant than Marten, more interested in robots, more capable of analysing and evaluating what he sees, and has a very different relationship to Claire. The story could have been more interesting.

[Ionathus]

It's unfair how good these proposed changes to the storyline are. How could you do this to me.

[Traab]

Im sticking to her being an actual child still. One who has decided that graduating college means she is a big girl now and should be treated thusly. This latest comic fits that view as its very much so a "Ok, I graduated, got hired, now wtf am I supposed to be DOING?" sort of thing. Like she worked hard and was probably pushed hard due to her mind to achieve these great milestones, but never really contemplated what happens after you are done with school because she is like, 12. She hasnt experienced much of anything outside of school and so has no real idea what she actually wants to do with herself. Like someone who trained all their life to be in the olympics and they did it, but what next? They didnt really get much more than the basic education, they had no job, no real time for friends, no hobbies. All they had was sport and the goal of olympic champion. So what comes next? Heck, in this era you cant even really get into the spokesman thing very much anymore as a followup. Nobody cares who is on the box of wheaties and since chuck norris stopped hawking them, are total gyms even a thing still?

[Vinyadan]

We could have been watching Clinton fighting between being a jerk, being a fanboy, and wanting a girlfriend!

[Scarlet Manuka]

Clinton + Elizabeth? That would be ... interesting to watch, from a safe distance.

[Mordokai]

I find myself asking... what is the endgame here?

Like seriously, what is Jeph trying to achieve with this character? She has been shown to be pretty unlikeable so far(in an out of universe, from what we've seen), but her plight(if we can call it that) is, supposedly, a noble one. You would guess the author would try to make her a smidgen more likable. And yet, she has proven nothing if not annoying so far, to say the least. This whole exposition thing is(other than going on for way too long already) making her more unlikeable by the update. At this point, I just can't imagine what sort of ass-pull Jeph is going to, well... pull, to make her proposition even worth listening to.

So yeah, I ask again... what is the endgame here?

[Rodin]

I find myself asking... what is the endgame here?

Like seriously, what is Jeph trying to achieve with this character? She has been shown to be pretty unlikeable so far(in an out of universe, from what we've seen), but her plight(if we can call it that) is, supposedly, a noble one. You would guess the author would try to make her a smidgen more likable. And yet, she has proven nothing if not annoying so far, to say the least. This whole exposition thing is(other than going on for way too long already) making her more unlikeable by the update. At this point, I just can't imagine what sort of ass-pull Jeph is going to, well... pull, to make her proposition even worth listening to.

So yeah, I ask again... what is the endgame here?

Seems to me this is the motivation for Claire to take the job. Elizabeth is going to say Cubetown is ruining her life by hiring her and then giving no direction or organization. Claire wants to turn the job down, but goshdarnit what about Elizabeth? Claire is just the person to give her structure and save her career!

I threw up a little in my mouth writing that, but I bet that’s where we’re going.

I find Elizabeth’s situation to be another layer of unbelievable on top of the existing garbage pile of unbelievable nonsense that is Cubetown. Not that Moray would hire someone and then leave them to their own devices - that’s unbelievable but already well established to be happening.

No, it’s Elizabeth herself. Jeph seems to think that a PhD just sort of…happens. If you’re smart enough, you get an official Smart Person certificate. And a kid genius gets two! Except that’s not the case - a PhD requires you to work your ass off and do a dissertation/thesis. Doing two simultaneously from MIT and Harvard would be literally impossible without Dr. McNinja style cloning.

But let’s give the story the benefit of the doubt - Elizabeth did two PhDs simultaneously because she’s just that good. Ok. A person with that level of drive and intelligence would not be sat around staring at a screen for 8 hours a day. She’s dealt with two dissertation reviews - she would run Moray over like a steamroller.

Instead it appears we’re expected to believe she sat in a room (or collection of rooms?) for TWO YEARS doing nothing. The rooms are not visited by janitorial staff. There is no oversight to say “are you doing something?”

Are we really supposed to be buying this? I feel like I’m being trolled at this point, and Jeph is going to break the 4th wall at some point and say “Surprise! Now you’ve seen how bad it could be, we’re going back to regular QC”

[Vinyadan]

Doing two simultaneously from MIT and Harvard would be literally impossible without Dr. McNinja style cloning.

Mhm. She has the lab coat, she has the stealth fixation, and the local fast-food restaurant is probably staffed by robots... I think you're up to something.

[Keltest]

Admittedly, if the plot twist here ends up being she was cloned from another one of Cubetown's employees who already had two degrees the more mundane way, and she discovers that, I would suddenly be hugely interested. That would absolutely be a good reason to get out of dodge, as well as completely consistent with the lack of ethics Cubetown has demonstrated so far.

[Wraith]

The vibe I'm getting here is that Cubetown is where actual talent (rather than quirky ADHD turbo-fixation) goes to die.

Lizzie is super-smart and has two PhDs? Sign her up! Bring her to the genius farm! Gotta catch 'em all!

But now she's here and... Go do a science, I guess? You're entirely free to pick whatever direction you want and pursue whatever angle you like, we don't care, just let us know when you find something.

If there's no structure, there's no discourse. All Cubetown does is put the best and brightest in a bottle, and isolate them from the rest of the scientific community. Everyone is working on exactly one thing, and occasionally the Director will take notice, fail to recognise the difference between correlation and causation, and announce that the world has now been changed. Hooray?

Where's the impetus or ability for scientists to talk to other scientists who aren't just their to build sentient arms or mess around with quantum pencil sharpeners, or something? Where's the stimulation and direction? What's the goal? What's the point?

Not that I care that Lizzie has wasted two years of her life because she's a horrible little twerp who has gone out of her way to be abrasive, I just hope her particular little cul-de-sac doesn't end up as some vague PSA about "child-prodigies grow up to be depressed and anxious little beans uwu" because if there's one thing this plot doesn't need, it's Jeph ham-fistedly smothering what's left of it with A Message™ along the lines of "capitalism bad" or "weed funny".

[Willie the Duck]

No, it’s Elizabeth herself. Jeph seems to think that a PhD just sort of…happens. If you’re smart enough, you get an official Smart Person certificate. And a kid genius gets two! Except that’s not the case - a PhD requires you to work your ass off and do a dissertation/thesis. Doing two simultaneously from MIT and Harvard would be literally impossible without Dr. McNinja style cloning.

Let's give Jeph just a little bit of credit here. He literally says in the strip where the the two PhDs are mentioned that it, "shouldn't even be possible, but she did it anyways." It doesn't really make sense for him not to realize that PhDs take hard work, since he is using the earning of 2 of them as a shorthand (telling instead of showing) of how awesome she is. He's 1) in on the joke of it being silly (not that that makes it a better joke), and 2) using the hard work he knows a PhD takes as proof of her awesomeness.

[Kish]

Let's give Jeph just a little bit of credit here.

What a concept.

While I'm not inclined to make a ton of negative assumptions about where Jeph is going with this, I am waiting for the part that gives me a reason to care about Elizabeth or that leads to either "...and here's the reason why someone who isn't completely self-absorbed might think Claire shouldn't take the job" or "why yes, Elizabeth is so narcissistic that she just buried Marten in verbiage with the only actual message being: She objectively has to decline the job because I don't want her around."

Either would do.

[Vinyadan]

I've been taking a look at the page formats that are being used.

QC has its tipical page format -- 3 or 4 horizontal panels making up a page. It works very well for strips with more than 2 people, social gatherings and such. It also offers a good view of the enviroment and of people's placement. I think it's QC's special thing.

It also uses the CAD page format -- a page divided by a cross into 4 same-size panels. It tends to be used when it's just two people talking. I don't like it. The simple fact that it's just two people talking produces a very static effect, but webcomics in general seem to have a problem with the format, and a frequent more-or-less serious remark about LICD and CAD (both of which use 4 panels a page/strip) is that you could chop off a panel, generally the last one, and the comic would be better. I actually got the impression that one of the reasons why LICD got worse over time is that its scripts somehow contracted their material to fit 3 strips while still being stretched over 4.

The page format I have noticed last is the 2x6. It's typical of Bonelli and Disney comics. It has a more narrative tension, offering enough room for establishing shots, dialogue, action, and a possible hook to the next page. I think the last two pages were fairly good, while the one in the conference hall will have to be evaluated later, mostly because of what was not being shown: the crowd. Why don't the people clap? Do they smile? Are they bored? How do they react to Elizabeth's nasty words? Or to Slime's inappropriate hug? This could all be forgiven, and actually be good, if this is actually a rendition of Elizabeth's feelings while recounting her experience: those people are not shown, because, in her arrogance, they are irrelevant zeroes. They may smile, jeer, feel terrible, it's all the same to her and they may as well not exist.

(By comparison, OotS uses the 3x4 format known as Belgian page, the one historically used by the Smurfs, Lucky Luke, Asterix, and I guess many more. Another format is the 2x4 American page, which I might have seen in some very old Capt. America comics, but I'm not really acquainted with.)