Dragon Magazine comics

[ref]

Aren't they suitable to appear with the next compilation?

[Dr.Epic]

Aren't they suitable to appear with the next compilation?

I'd think they'd appear in the book compiling the ending to oots.

[Nimrod's Son]

Aren't they suitable to appear with the next compilation?

The books are pretty huge as they are. The Dragon strips would be suitable if the book were to contain no other bonus material, but the precedent is to have a bunch of strips that flesh out the main plot free of the two-or-three-strips-a-week pacing issues the online comic suffers from. An extra twenty-odd pages on top of that would likely be too much, if not for cost reasons then surely for weight reasons.

And personally, I'd MUCH prefer to have twenty strips of brand-new canonical material than a load of throwaway stuff that I already own (in admittedly badly-scanned form, but still). I'd happily buy the Dragon strips, especially if they were packaged nicely along with other similar content, but I'd be very disappointed if they were the only extras included in one of the main books.

[Dubious Pie]

I think in a compilation of all the non-online, non-bonus strips would be good. With the Dragon Strips, and the 2 prequel books.

[Ancalagon]

I think in a compilation of all the non-online, non-bonus strips would be good. With the Dragon Strips, and the 2 prequel books.

They do not really fit SoD. I guess you could squeeze some Dragon comics into a compilation book of the online strip. The online-comic is funny and lighthearted enough for that. But the Dragon-Strips and SoD should not get mixed. They simply are too different in terms of tone and style.

Also, who'd buy that? I bet a large number of the people who do buy the books already have the prequel books.

[Bedinsis]

I just wanted to add that I wouldn't be interested in the Dragon strips as a standalone issue. They're probably fun and all, but if I'm not mistaken they deal with jokes about the rules of Dungeons and Dragons, and contain no storyline or hardly any relation with The Order of the Stick comic (save the characters) as is. I don't play Dungeons and Dragons, so buying the issue would be pointless, and if there's no storyline in relation to the comic proper I have even less of a reason. I write this because I believe Mr. Burlew himself has stated that there are more non-players than players of Dungeons and Dragons who read The Order of the Stick, so at least half the audience would see little reason to buy the issue.

Unless, of course, players of Dungeons and Dragons vastly eclipses non-players when it comes to actually buying the books.

[Ancalagon]

Actually... I think that if you like OotS, you'll also like the Dragon comics...

[Nimrod's Son]

Yeah, particularly if you're a fan of the first fifty strips. They are more rules-centered than recent arcs but no more so than anything from the early days of the online comic. If you like the plot-free jokes of the early strips there's no reason you wouldn't like the Dragon ones; a couple of them are rather brilliant, actually. And I don't play D&D either, for what it's worth.

[NerfTW]

Honestly, they're not the treasure trove of hilarity that will change your life as some people seem to be thinking. They're pretty much all puns or rules jokes. The only plot relevant thing we get is Belkar's ranks in Gourmet Chef, which has been brought up in the comic itself multiple times since then.

They're clearly out of continuity due to the team being in their original outfits (post art upgrade), running around in a different colored cave that doesn't fit in at any point in the continuity.

They're very funny, don't get me wrong, and they were a great back up comic for the magazine, but I'd think if you knew what they were, you'd much rather get plot relevant material in the compilations over a completely unrelated series of puns that just happen to involve the OotS characters.

[Bongos]

They could go here, seems like the perfect place.

[Ancalagon]

They could go here, seems like the perfect place.

Apparently, they are meant to get sold. Somehow. Or they would have popped up at the place you linked like... years ago. ;)

But if we can make wishes... the perfect place would be a compilation of them together with like 100 other new bonus comics and... maybe a massive coin of gold. And, if it's not too much to ask, schematics for a working lightsabre, please?

[Bongos]

Well the main comic is meant to get sold? And it's popping up here? So what's the difference?

[Ancalagon]

Well the main comic is meant to get sold? And it's popping up here? So what's the difference?

You can add some "only" somewhere. But really, the place you linked to is so freaking obvious that the *fact* it did not show up there years ago means they are not meant to show up there.

You can argue all you want but very, very apparently, Rich simply does not seem to be willing to just post them on this site as "extra material". Do you think no one, especially the author who owns this site and apparently (he said so) has pondered where he wants to put them has not though of the most obvious place?

I do not claim to have any insight in this at all but the fact underline the comics are simply and plainly not meant to be appear where you suggested (it's a good suggestion, though).

[Bongos]

If there is a enough demand, they could show up anywhere. Why not put them up here for free like the main comic, it seems to be a successful business model. Certainly there are appreciative readers that never had access to the original Dragon publishing.

[Dr.Epic]

The books are pretty huge as they are.

Actually they vary greatly. Origins is only 72 pages while Don't Split the Party is just under 200 not counting the bonus strips.

[Ancalagon]

If there is a enough demand, they could show up anywhere. Why not put them up here for free like the main comic, it seems to be a successful business model. Certainly there are appreciative readers that never had access to the original Dragon publishing.

Well, don't tell or ask me. I cannot tell or answer WHY they are not here. All I know is there seems to be a very high probability (bordering to fact) they won't show up here.

[Nimrod's Son]

Actually they vary greatly. Origins is only 72 pages while Don't Split the Party is just under 200 not counting the bonus strips.

I meant the compilations, obviously. And they've been gradually increasing in size, too. It's pretty much a certainty that we'll never see another compilation shorter than War & XPs, so your nitpickery doesn't affect my point in any way.

If they turn up as bonus material in a prequel book, fine. That more than meets the ratio of brand-new-versus-previously-released content that I'd be happy with.

[Prowl]

Perhaps the best place to release them is with the "next" prequel book, should it ever arrive. Maybe we'll get some more backstory on some of the older characters in the comic? Adventures of the oots gods, perhaps, or a story about Xykon's life between being a fresh-out-of-the-volcano necromancer and his team-up with Redcloak? Tales of the elves and dwarves? Azurite pre-history? Tons of potential ideas, and if one of those other story arcs is just not long enough to justify its own book, having the Dragon mag comics supplement it may just do the trick for both sets of strips.

[rewinn]

If there is a enough demand, they could show up anywhere. Why not put them up here for free like the main comic, it seems to be a successful business model. Certainly there are appreciative readers that never had access to the original Dragon publishing.

If I were The Giant's financial advisor, I'd suggest against it.

First, keep in mind that The Giant has to pay for server space and ... who knows? ... maybe even food and rent in the real world (it's no business of mine, but some artists try to make a living off their work.) The current Dragon strips are unsellable in print in their current quantity but they could form the basis of a new book were there time to double or triple the quantity of non-website material. Some day the current story megaarc will end (it may not be for a looooong time, but it will happen) ; then The Giant will need a new project to pay for server space etc. A Book Of Unfinished OOTS Tales as per Tolkien might sell nicely.

And putting the content on this site right now would not draw many new readers; all that would happen, from a business perspective, is additional server load and the forfeiture of an asset.

Bottom line: it's his stuff. We should be grateful for what we get for free, and buy offline when we can.

[Ancalagon]

I'd also say, given the he apparently is able to live from the comic (you know, server, food, stuff) and this thread, "demand" is no issue at all. It's there. Just not "the right way" to distribute those comics.

The core problem seems to be "Too many to just squeeze them in somewhere, too few to release on their own".

I would not mind to see them in the end after the next book. Maybe after like three empty, white pages (or with just some character-outlines on them or so). Like "a joke after the credits of a funny movie or some computer game". But also apparently, this is not what is wanted or it would have happened two compilation books ago.

[Faramir]

Just throwing out another option as a suggestion. Perhaps we could get a few in each compilation so the total doesn't overwhelm any individual book?

[Katana_Geldar]

Perhaps the best place to release them is with the "next" prequel book, should it ever arrive. Maybe we'll get some more backstory on some of the older characters in the comic? Adventures of the oots gods, perhaps, or a story about Xykon's life between being a fresh-out-of-the-volcano necromancer and his team-up with Redcloak? Tales of the elves and dwarves? Azurite pre-history? Tons of potential ideas, and if one of those other story arcs is just not long enough to justify its own book, having the Dragon mag comics supplement it may just do the trick for both sets of strips.

This. The prequel books seem to be rather slim volumes anyway, having them as a bonus to the prequel book would make it great.

[factotum]

This. The prequel books seem to be rather slim volumes anyway, having them as a bonus to the prequel book would make it great.

On the Origin of PCs was quite slim, but I don't think Start of Darkness was!

[Katana_Geldar]

Compared to the compiled comics, they are.

[pendell]

Two reasons.

The first is financial. As you point out, I couldn't charge more than about $5 for a 22-page book, because that's what people expect to pay for such a booklet. However, those sort of prices are set by the comic book industry, and they print hundreds of thousands of copies of their books. Since cost-per-unit drops dramatically as the number of units increases, they can afford to price their books far below what I could for the same number of pages. It comes down to the fact that in order for me to print the books at the same quality as the existing products (which my readers would expect), I would lose money even if I sold out. And I might not sell out; the Dragon comics are both completely non-essential to the ongoing plot AND have seen print before, so a compilation of them could sell far less than I would expect.

(Also, the fact that you would not order it right away is itself a problem. I need to make the printing money back fairly soon in order to pay for the next new book. If everyone in Europe waited on buying it like you suggested, I would be stuck with a pile of a low price tag product and no capital with which to order the next product. Hypothetical future sales do not matter as much as actual current sales, not in an economy where small business loans have pretty much dried up. I can't risk putting out any product that doesn't make its printing cost back in the first two months or so.)

The second reason is physical. A 32-page booklet will be flimsy and easily damaged. It won't be able to stand on the shelf the same as my other books, nor will it be small enough to fit in a comic bag. This will result in a lot of spoilage when shipping to my distributors and a lot of disappointed fans when the books get bent. I'm not about to do that.

Perhaps you could split it as bonus material across multiple compilations? I know that I buy the compilations primarily as a reward to you, the creator, not because I see them as greatly superior to the online material. The sole exception being Start of Darkness, which IMO transcends from mere Graphic Novel to Graphic LITERATURE, at least in my arrogant opinion. Adding the dragon magazine strips as bonus material to multiple volumes would greatly add to the value of the compilations, at least from my perspective.

I'll still buy them anyway, of course. You, as a creator, entertain me. Therefore it is fit that I pay for your work, so you can spend more time doing this and less time whatever the alternative would be. Nonetheless, the Dragon strips comprise additional value which I would be willing to pay for. Bundled into multiple compilations with a slight increase in the price of those compilations would be acceptable to me. But then, I'm only one customer.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Shale]

Might this be an opportunity to test the e-book waters? I know you've said you don't want to sell the main volumes digitally because it cuts the market for the print editions down too far, but if putting these strips in print is unfeasible anyway, where's the harm?

[The Giant]

See, now, this is why I don't explain things a lot of the time. It's nigh impossible for me to explain why I do or don't do something without everyone trying to give me an alternative.

I'm not looking for suggestions. I know exactly what I am going to do with Dragon Magazine comics, I'm just not telling you what I'm doing yet, because I'm not ready. All I answered was why the one suggestion of releasing them as a 22-page comic was unrealistic. That's it. It should not imply that I am sitting around befuddled as to what to do with my work and how I should release it.

So, yeah. Thanks for the ideas, but I've got it covered.

[Shale]

Sorry, I'm just naturally nosy. Thanks for the response, at least!

[Ted The Bug]

See, now, this is why I don't explain things a lot of the time. It's nigh impossible for me to explain why I do or don't do something without everyone trying to give me an alternative.

I'm not looking for suggestions. I know exactly what I am going to do with Dragon Magazine comics, I'm just not telling you what I'm doing yet, because I'm not ready. All I answered was why the one suggestion of releasing them as a 22-page comic was unrealistic. That's it. It should not imply that I am sitting around befuddled as to what to do with my work and how I should release it.

So, yeah. Thanks for the ideas, but I've got it covered.

NO, RICH. I, a complete stranger to know, know better than you do about the business model that has worked since 2003. You should listen to every last bit of advice you are given, and if you dare think about disagreeing, I will stop reading your comic and tell all of my friends that your big mean meanyhead should hit the groundy-ground!!
I feel so betrayed that the person who is giving me free entertainment is not doing exactly what I say!

That being said, I'd love to get my hands on those comics. I hope whatever plans you have for them involve publishing them.

[Bedinsis]

I'm not looking for suggestions. I know exactly what I am going to do with Dragon Magazine comics, I'm just not telling you what I'm doing yet, because I'm not ready. All I answered was why the one suggestion of releasing them as a 22-page comic was unrealistic. That's it. It should not imply that I am sitting around befuddled as to what to do with my work and how I should release it.

Oh! Well, it's easy to make assumptions when you answer:

If I recall correctly, Rich has stated that he owns the rights to the comics, but hasn't found a suitable way of releasing them yet. At a little over twenty pages, they're too short to comprise their own book but probably too long to include as bonus material in a main compilation.

(emphasis mine)
with

This.

I retain all rights other than First Serial Rights; Paizo (or WOTC) can't publish those strips again, ever, for any reason, which is why they're not in the PDF versions they were selling for a while. Paizo approached me to put OOTS in Dragon, and I simply would not have considered it if I didn't retain all rights to all characters and artwork.

And as you say, having 22 comics is too little to release on their own, and too much to add on to my increasingly-mammoth compilations. I have some ideas for additional material to include with them, but working on it takes a backseat to the main comic at this point.

Since the part I emphasized was addressed with "some ideas", it's easy to make assumptions. Such as, that all of Nimrod's Son's post was true. Oh well, mistakes can be made easily.