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2010-09-08, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Okay, i've decided that i'll be playing a knife fighter (and by knife i do mean dagger) in my next campaign (won't be starting for a while) and i plan to go the full 20 levels of Fighter for the guy. i'll be using the thug and sneak attack variants as well as the fighter variant from champions of valor.
Anyway, i need equipment for the guy, but i'm pretty lost with what to get him. Pathfinder standard wealth by level for a level 10 character, which is 62,000gp, and it's an urban game with a lot of intrigue and sneaking around.
Proposed Build
Spoiler01 - Fighter 1 | Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Dagger), Two-Weapon Fighting, Point Blank Shot
02 - Fighter 2 | +1d6 Sneak Attack*
03 - Fighter 3 | Far Shot, Skill Focus (Intimidate)*
04 - Fighter 4 | Weapon Specialization (Dagger)*, +1 Dexterity
05 - Fighter 5 |
06 - Fighter 6 | Quick Draw, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting*
07 - Fighter 7 |
08 - Fighter 8 | Greater Weapon Focus (Dagger)*, +1 Dexterity
09 - Fighter 9 | Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing)
10 - Fighter 10 | +1d6 Sneak Attack*
11 - Fighter 11 |
12 - Fighter 12 | Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Greater-Weapon Specialization (Dagger)*, +1 Dexterity
13 - Fighter 13 |
14 - Fighter 14 | Improved Critical (Dagger)*
15 - Fighter 15 | Slashing Flurry
16 - Fighter 16 | +1d6 Sneak Attack*, +1 Dexterity
17 - Fighter 17 |
18 - Fighter 18 | Weapon Supremacy, +1d6 Sneak Attack*
19 - Fighter 19 |
20 - Fighter 20 | +1d6 Sneak Attack*, +1 ???
* Bonus Feat or Sneak Attack
Abilities: Str 12 (4), Dex 16 (10), Con 14 (6), Int 14 (6), Wis 12 (4), Cha 10 (2); 32
Regional Feat: Bullheaded (+2 to Will Saves, Can’t be Shaken)
Flaws: Frail (-1hp/level), Curious (-2 to Listen & Spot, -2 to Initiative)
Traits: Plucky (+1 to Will Saves, -1 to Fort Saves)
ACFs: Thug, Sneaky Fighter, Skilled City-Dweller, Zhentarim Soldier
EDIT: I should probably state that my group has access and is allowed to use every 3.5 book including 3rd party material and dragon magazine.Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2010-09-08 at 03:32 PM.
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2010-09-08, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Strongarm Bracers so you can increase your weapons' size category by 1?
Also, I know you specified daggers, but the knife fighters I've built use kukris, both for the cool factor and because they are mechanically better. I'm curious as to what reasons your character would choose to use daggers instead when he knows about and knows how to use kukris?
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2010-09-08, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Mainly because of throwing, i want to use daggers for both melee and ranged and kukris can't be thrown. Also, daggers are more easily concealed than kukris and i'm planning on the Gauntlet of Infinite Blades, which would supply an endless stream of daggers, even if they only last 3 rounds.
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2010-09-08, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
The Sneak Attack Fighter variant is all or nothing, you either don't get any sneak attack and keep all the bonus feats, or you lose all the bonus feats and gain full sneak attack progression. Plus it gives sneak attack as the Rogue progression, so its gained on the odd numbered levels. You don't get the option whether to choose a bonus feat or sneak attack at any given level, if you're using the sneak attack variant there are no bonus feats.
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2010-09-08, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
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2010-09-08, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
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2010-09-08, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- On Paper
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Can I ask why you're going for a Fighter instead of a Rogue? A Rogue seems to fit better thematically.
Also, I would go with a Kukuri or a Shortsword (Perhaps refluffed) As your primary meele weapon. Grab Quick Draw (Something you'll want anyway if you expect to ambush or be ambushed) and keep several daggers on you as throwing weapons/holdout melee weapons.
Also, it might be a good idea to check out Complete Scoundrel, put a hidden blade in each boot, maybe some wrist blades, if you're wearing heavy enough armor, knee or elbow blades. Your general philosophy should be to ALWAYS have another knife on your person.
Using light weapons means a high strength score won't be much help, if you roll well, consider a couple levels of Swashbuckler to grab free Weapon Finesse and Int to Damage. If you have Rogue SA progression, either from rogue levels or from varient fighter levels, you can grab Daring Outlaw (From Complete Scoundrel) to have your Rogue and Swashbuckler levels stack for Sneak attack and grace progresison.
You'll be discarding weapons alot, look into Weapon Crystals from the MIC for your weapon-boosting needs.
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2010-09-08, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
I'm using the thug variant from UA, and actually it fits my character better, i never go for what works best but for what fits the character best. I even use sub optimal choices because they fit the character, so does everyone else in our group. We're all role-play oriented rather than power oriented.
Again, i prefer daggers because they're versatile. You can throw them and conceal them easily, plus they're effective in combat. Also, i already have Quick Draw in the proposed build in the OP.
Already have two boot blades and two sleeve blades. Also i use light armor because i focus more on dexterity than strength. And the philosophy is exactly what i'm going for.
I'm using point buy, not rolling and i'm using straight fighter. Thanks on the weapon crystals, i'll give a look.Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2010-09-08 at 04:23 PM.
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2010-09-08, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Fair enough.
I'd double check those varients, as was said above, I don't think you can pick and choose when you get Fighter feats and when you get SA.
If you're using Sneak Attack, I'd be wary about taking a penalty to initiative, being able to sneak attack that first round while your opponents are still flat footed can be a game changer.
As for equipment, maybe an item that lets you use Mage Hand (Like Hand of the Mage, but without taking up a slot) to retrieve thrown daggers.
Damage reduction is the bane of anybody who relies on lots of attacks to deal damage. Be sure to grab, at the very least, masterwork Adamantine, Silver, and Cold Iron weapons.
A quick look through the MIC says the Gauntlets of Extended Range, and the Gauntlets of Throwing might be useful. I know your going for Gauntlet of Endless blades, but maybe you can modify the price to get the effects of one of the other gauntlets in a different slot.
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2010-09-08, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2010-09-08 at 04:51 PM.
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2010-09-08, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Last edited by BRC; 2010-09-08 at 05:07 PM.
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2010-09-08, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
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2010-09-08, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Wisconsin
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Or just get both. The Healing Belt you can put on when you need to heal and put the Pocket Belt on the rest of the time. Or, if switching belts bugs you, combine the belts, as adding a Healing Belt to the Pocket Belt isn't that expensive, a little over 1k or so. Drop in the bucket, really.
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2010-09-08, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
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2010-09-08, 08:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- the 64th layer
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
might I suggest some Martial Study/Martial Stance feats? If you do this and grab a shadow hand stance, you could also get Shadow Blade for dex to damage. And maneuvers are useful in general. A few of the better ones are: Iron Heart Surge, Moment of Perfect Clarity, and (one of my personal favorites) Shadow Garrote. For your build, I'd suggest getting Assassin's Stance for a permanent +2d6 SA.
*note: not all advice by this poster is meant to be taken seriously.
Warlock/Swordsage avatar by yldenfrei
optimization is like salt. a pinch here and there can't hurt, but too much will spoil everything.
I have salty tastes.
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2010-09-08, 08:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
- Location
- Metro Manila, Philippines
- Gender
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Meteoric Knife: For 2800 or so, you have a +1 dagger than can become a flaming, returning dagger that bursts into flame (with splash damage). Available at really low levels. At higher levels you can have lots of them.
Gauntlet of Infinite Blades as suggested is also good.
Now I'm very iffy on your Fighter 20 build as there are other ways of doing it and you have access to all books. I can't give a detailed build right now, but I'd suggest adding at least some Warblade levels for martial study.
Bloodstorm Blade is best used with a big two-handed weapon, so it might not fit, but I'm sure Master Thrower can give you at least some ranged advantage.
Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal. NOW COMPLETE!
Sakuya Izayoi avatar by Mr. Saturn. Caella sig by Neoseph.
"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay
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2010-09-08, 09:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2008
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- Wasco
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Hi, I'm glad to see you're still working on your knifer. I thought you wanted to have strong survival skills too. I can't check the spoiler on my PSP, but did you switch Gather Information and Knowledge (local) for Knowledge (nature) and Survival? Because that could work.
I don't know enough about pathfinder rules and items, but anything from 3.5 still works, right?
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2010-09-08, 09:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
This is about equipment, not the build. I believe i made that clear at the very beginning, I know Martial Study would help, but what would i replace to get it? I'm sticking with what i have, this will be my first ever non-gish warrior and i'd prefer to keep away from ToB for this build (not that it's banned or anything).
I'm not trying to optimize here otherwise i would have played a warblade or swordsage.
EDIT: Realbombchu, i'm playing 3.5, just using pathfinder WBLLast edited by EdroGrimshell; 2010-09-08 at 09:15 PM.
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2010-09-08, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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2010-09-08, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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2010-09-08, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- Mi Lower P
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
I thought pack rat could be a cool feat for a knife fighter. You get your gear taken away and pull out a knife from your boot. Its taken away so you pull another from your shelve. They could never find them all but they would be normal daggers.
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2010-09-08, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- Metro Manila, Philippines
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Ok then. Meteoric Knife and Gauntlet of Infinite Blades are definitely up there as they're fairly cheap and allow you to always have a knife on you.
You might also want to get a Metalline property dagger eventually, so that DR/(metal) doesn't screw over your damage output.
An Anklet of Translocation is a limited per day teleport item that will allow you to quickly get out of (or into) trouble.
A custom ring that allows you to use Steeldance (Spell Compendium) a number of times per day will allow you to get even more attacks per turn without needing TWF.
Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal. NOW COMPLETE!
Sakuya Izayoi avatar by Mr. Saturn. Caella sig by Neoseph.
"I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay
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2010-09-08, 09:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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- NYC
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2010-09-08, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- Joliet, IL
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
If you want to be a knife fighting warrior with sneak attack, I highly recommend a Swashbuckler/Fighter to Invisible Blade/Master thrower combo.
Ala this character:
Derrian Lafaux
You want to start with Swashbuckler for the skill points, then use fighter to get the necessary feats to quickly reach Invisible Blade, You can easily meet the prereqs for Master Thower as you gain your 5 levels of Invisible Blade. I believe the sheet there has a custom weapon which is a dagger version of Gloves of Endless Javelins +1 but Gauntlet of Infinite Blades is better anyway I just was unaware of it at the time I made the character.
EDIT:
I honestly think that TWF isn't really worth the feat investment on a knife fighter/thower. You'll get plenty of daggers off anyway.
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2010-09-08, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
I'll look into the meteoric knife. Surprisingly i've never heard of it before.
I was thinking of this for my melee daggers, although it would be inefficient to use it on thrown daggers.
I'll look into it, sounds like fun.
Not what i was going for but that's what refluffing is for, right?
EDIT: Shyftir, how many times must i say i'm using the fighter and nothing else. Unless i get 18 levels of fighter i can't take Weapon Supremacy, which is what i'm aiming for.Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2010-09-08 at 09:31 PM.
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2010-09-08, 10:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
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- Oregon
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
A lot of posts, not gonna lie. If yer into Eberron there is teh Drow Long Knife. basically a dagger but does a d6. Uses all the same feats as a dagger and what not, so Wep Spec: Dagger also works for the Drow Long Knife. So yes, you can throw them and essentially use the Gauntlet of Blades.
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2010-09-08, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
If you are going for a knife fighter and you even intend to throw'em, you might want some Invisible Blade in there.
Thug fighter + Swashbuckler might work better, also. Specially with Daring Outlaw.
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2010-09-08, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)
Last edited by EdroGrimshell; 2010-09-08 at 10:44 PM.
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2010-09-08, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
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2010-09-08, 10:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Re: Equipment for a Knife Fighter (3.5)