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2016-11-29, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I had a second idea, but wasn't able to get past the stub though
Iron Chef in the Playground LXVI - Honorable Mention : Azalin Stonecutter
Iron Chef Home Cooking in the Playground II - Second Place : Takenaka Kenshin
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2016-11-29, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Build submitted, although I never got a clear answer on Accelerated actions.
I, too, had a second idea that I've been noodling around with, but I can't quite get it to do everything I want it to do. I'm hoping the idea was obvious enough that someone else will submit something like it.Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2016-11-29, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I know it might be a tad early to suggest PrCs for next time, but has Forsaker been done yet?
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2016-11-29, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2016-11-30, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Bad as it is, Forsaker isn't actually all that resilient to optimization. It may be resilient to effective optimization as the results might still suck, but at least it sorta interacts with other things (the SR stacks with other sources for instance) rather than giving a few crappy SLAs or minor skill boosts. I'm not sure I could produce an actual optimized build using Forsaker, but I could at least produce an optimized Forsaker.
Iron Chef Medals
SpoilerSir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L
Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII
Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII
Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII
Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII
Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX
The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI
Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV
Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV
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2016-11-30, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Forsaker, in addition to having the problem of, y'know, needing to break magic items all the time (in a real game, you'd probably just ignore that feature and ignore the lame DR you get from it, but in Iron Chef, you'd do that at the peril of your UoSI), has the problem of having nearly entirely passive/defensive class features. You can't really proactively show off DR or Slippery Mind or SR, you know? Even "Natural Weapons" is kind of hard to showcase, though at least it has a little bit more potential than the other things.
I also don't love the fact that you don't really get too many new abilities as you level up (you mostly get the same stuff with bigger numbers).
It'd be an interesting homebrew project for someone who's better at balance than I am, for what that's worth. It's a neat concept, and I'm sure it could be made to be functional and interesting without losing the basic idea. (It would never be a top-notch option, since magic is too tightly tied to the game's balance to make a character who refuses to benefit from magic really feasible, but we'd know that going in.)In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2016-11-30, 11:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I am so excited for this round I keep coming back to this thread to see if builds are posted. I am sure Heliomance is off doing normal people things... be still my beating heart.
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2016-11-30, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
Spoiler: CharOPIC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)
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2016-11-30, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Heliomance posted her list of possible secret ingredients earlier in the thread. Presumably she is still considering:
Arboreal Guardian
Aerial Avenger
Astral Dancer
Berserk
Cavestalker
Dungeon Delver
Elocator
Gatecrasher
Kinslayer
Oozemaster
Shaper of Form
Shining Blade of Hieronymous Bosch
Soldier of Light
Twisted Lord
Visionary SeekerHandbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2016-11-30, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I don't even understand what Visionary Seeker is trying to do. What is it about Planar Handbook that makes all of its PrCs such excellent fodder for Iron Chef? Honestly any one of them seems ready for a round as SI.
Visionary Seeker does remind me of another fascinating divination class I think might be good for us: Eye of Lolth. It has some actual power but it's so all over the place that its hard to work with.Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2016-12-01, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Yeah, Visionary Seeker is 3 or 5 levels of features spread across 10 levels. I do think it's a tell that it (technically) progresses casting but that it doesn't require casting to get in. To me, that indicates that the casting aspect of it was probably tacked on late in development. (Perhaps it's not as cut and dried as that, but still, the whole thing feels kind of kludged together no matter how you slice it.)
I also think VS suffers from 3.5's crippling fear of non-daily abilities. Bend Fate and Trick Fate would be interesting as 1/encounter abilities, but they require waaaaay too much investment for something that only works once a day. They're not exactly trivial, but they're not nearly enough when you consider the opportunity cost. (Also, the fact that Bend Fate is proactive rather than reactive makes it much, much worse.) I can see why they wanted to put a daily limit on Spell Mimic, but I still feel like that limit is a little bit harsh. (Perhaps it would be better if the class gave you daily uses as per the table, but then you could also expend spell slots of the appropriate level to get additional uses? That would be interesting!) Moment of Prescience 1/day isn't the worst capstone I've ever seen, but a normal caster who doesn't lose caster levels is pretty much able to just cast MoP naturally by the time VS gets access to it. (I guess it's semi-useful for casters without MoP on their list? Still not worth losing 5 CL if it's only 1/day, of course.)
But yeah. It's just not a very well-designed class. Dice manipulation is a valid mechanic, but they were far too timid with it.
I've never even looked at Eye of Lolth before. It seems like one of those Forgotten Realms PrCs that is clearly designed for a specific character or a specific group of characters in some dev's home game. I completely agree that it's all over the place. (I will also mention that Cautious Attack is one of the most weaksauce feats I've ever seen.) Mostly it's just got a really obnoxious web (geddit? geddit? Web? Because drow?) of prereqs, and it does seem to place a lot of unnecessary restrictions on what you can do or how it works. The fact that you can share some of the bonuses with your allies is nice, though I really wish that Team Stealth worked on more than one other character at once. I can see some good dishes coming out of that, but I'll be honest, it seems like it'd be hard to exercise your Originality and really stand out from the pack.Last edited by Zaq; 2018-02-26 at 09:22 PM.
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
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2016-12-01, 02:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I would like a IC round with Arboreal Guardian or Berserk.
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2016-12-01, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
WHAT DID YOU DO GUYS WHY DO I HAVE 12 MESSAGES IN MY INBOX WHAT IS THIS
here you goQuotebox
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
You use that picture, and you don't mention piles of hay at all?
Originally Posted by Marg, Insane Skydiving Orc
Spoiler: OriginalOriginally Posted by Marg, Insane Skydiving OrcLast edited by Heliomance; 2016-12-02 at 08:01 AM.
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 05:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Let's play a game!
Originally Posted by TsillahQuotebox
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
NE Drow, struggling to throw off the reputation of his CG kin
Originally Posted by Izzlyn OussanaQuotebox
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Forewarned is fourarmed
Originally Posted by Ardatha LilimLast edited by Heliomance; 2016-12-01 at 05:32 PM.
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
That picture is amazing but I can't think of a witty remark ;_;
Originally Posted by Geoffrey FourmyleQuotebox
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Well, that went south in a hurry
Originally Posted by North and EastQuotebox
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 05:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Snaaaake, it's a snaaaaake, ooh, it's a snaaaake
Originally Posted by GrippQuotebox
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
And that's all of them, sorry for the delay. Now git judging!
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Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2016-12-01, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Before looking at the entries, here are the notes I had on the entry classes.
SpoilerPsychic Warrior: The most blatantly obvious choice, and the one the book calls out as the expected entry. Bonus feats allow them to easily gain the prerequisites, and they can easily enter on time as a Psychic Warrior 6 or Psychic Warrior 4/Fighter 1. They're already melee-focused, so they're well-primed to make use of Opportunistic Strike, and they very much appreciate the extra skill points and bonus powers known.
Ardent: Ardents have full manifesting, which gives them a lot of power, although their list is somewhat limited. Medium BAB allows them to qualify on time as an Ardent 6 or Ardent 4/Fighter 1. Their weird powers known mechanic also allows them to pretty much just gloss over the lost manifester levels with Practiced Manifester so they don't even meaningfully delay access to higher-level powers. The Conflict mantle fits right in with a melee strategy, and Creation provides astral constructs to enable opportunistic strikes. Another obvious choice.
Lurk: Lurk is also a natural entry class. They have the BAB to enter on time, their sneak attacks work well with the Elocater's enhanced flanking, and their augments only work on one attack per turn, which meshes well with the Spring Attack prerequisite and the once-per-round limit on Opportunistic Strike.
Psion: Psion is somewhat obvious in that it's Psionic Class #1 and Elocater is a psionic prestige class. It unquestionably has the best manifesting, and provides more general utility than any other entry class. Psions also get to upgrade every aspect of their chassis, so the upside is pretty high. On the other hand, it's also not very easy for a Psion to qualify, thanks to their poor BAB, so while at first glance they might look like the obvious choice, they're actually pretty cumbersome to work with. You could enter as a Psion 9, but that's a long time to wait before coming online. More likely, you'd multiclass. I'd expect to see either Psion 5 or 6 with a full BAB dip (probably Fighter or Warblade), or some other non-psionic class dipping Psion for 1st level powers. Shaper and Nomad are the obvious disciplines: Shaper for astral contructs to set up opportunistic strike (especially good with the personal construct variant to quicken it for free), and Nomad for thematic reasons. Egoists are also a possibility, since Elocater does encourage melee combat, and Kineticist is called out in the book as a common entry (although I'm not sure why—their exclusive powers aren't particularly synergistic with the class). Erudite is the least likely because of its multiclassing restriction, which, fun fact, applies to all psionic classes, including psionic prestige classes, so if you ever have more Elocater levels than Erudite levels, get ready to say goodbye to your ability to learn new powers!
Psychic Rogue: Psychic Rogues are a lot like Lurks in that they have medium BAB and sneak attack to qualify easily and take advantage of a flanking-based strategy. However, they also don't stand to gain as much from the prestige class, since they already have the same chassis and they'd be giving up their sneak attack progression. Still, sneak attack is a natural pairing with Elocater due to the flanking synergy, so I expect to see at least one of these.
Wilder: Wilder is normally just a worse version of Psion, but for this round, the fact that it has better BAB makes it viable. I would not be surprised to see a Wilder.
Divine Mind: I don't think this class is ever going to be expected for anything. It's very bad. Take your Originality points and expect a big hit in Power.
War Mind: It's a late entry, but it works well with a melee strategy. What's awkward is that the coolest ability comes at level 5, but you don't really want that many levels because you'd be wasting some of Elocater's manifesting, which is inelegant. Full BAB 5/War Mind X/Elocater X is within the realm of possibility, but I don't think it's an obvious build. I think we're more likely to see a full BAB class dipping Psion.
Psionic Assassin: This is the Assassin variant from Secrets of Sarlona with its own manifesting progression, not to be confused with the Psychic Assassin, which is from the Mind's Eye web articles and advances one of your other manifesting classes. I could imagine a Psionic Assassin-based Elocater as a way to transition a vanilla skillmonkey-type into higher levels, but it would be kind of an oddball strategy, especially since you could have just played a Psychic Rogue from the start if that's the niche you were after. Unexpected.
Psionic Fist: Gets around the drawback of partial manifesting by only having 10 levels' worth, but leaving the class also defeats the purpose somewhat, since you're no longer advancing Monk abilities—raising the question of why you didn't just go Psychic Warrior from the start. I'd be surprised by one of these.
Zerth Cenobite: Ha ha ha, yeah right, like anyone even remembers this class exists.
EDIT: There's a Dvati Lurk! Yes! That was my build! (Although I didn't have the Psychic Assassin levels.) So glad to see a dvati, it's perfect for this prestige class, and it has good synergy with lurk as well.
EDIT 2: I didn't even notice the divine minion on there! I was toying with that as well! Although Set is pretty aggressive with the LA; I would have spring for Nephthys or Anhur.
Hmm, I see a couple Shi'Quos Schools, but no Staggering Strikes, that's a little surprising. The interaction between Staggering Strike, Spring Attack, and Sidestep Charge can be pretty brutal against melee enemies.Last edited by Troacctid; 2016-12-01 at 06:38 PM.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2016-12-01, 06:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Dang... now I'm semi-glad I didn't submit a build... I wouldn't have stood a chance...
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2016-12-01, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I know that feeling. All I got into my build was going to be a crusader/marshal/ardent/ectopic adept making constructs and flanking with them with master of tactics and tactics of the wolf, putting flank on my flank, and trying to screw around with white raven to trigger opportunistic strike but after that just kind of run out of steam.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2016-12-01, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Really surprised not to see a Telflammar Shadowlord. Maybe Vizinni was in full effect or maybe shadow pounce just overshadowed Dimension spring attack too much.
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2016-12-01, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I don't think Telflammar Shadowlord fits well with what the Secret Ingredient is doing. The lack of manifesting progression makes it kind of a nonbo?
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2016-12-01, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
I know I considered staggering strike, but I wound up spread too think as far as feats go.
I certainly never thought about telflammar shadowlord. it's one of my favorite classes, but I agree there's not a ton of synergy here. it's really annoying to qualify for, and can't be entered til 8, so a build would be xx5/elocator10/xx5 with some weird level breaking going on. plus, it has a fourth prereq feat, and elocator already stings at 3. it'd be pretty hard to show off psionic tricks with one less feat to work with, especially if you weren't human, as several dishes are.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2016-12-01, 10:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Gosh. There's a lot more overlap with some of these builds than I was expecting, and practically all of the ideas I didn't end up using would up elsewhere. Except for the Shifter Wilder/Elocater, I suppose, though Tsillah is pretty close.
Nice rundown of the classes. I think we saw most of the base classes this round, save for Divine Mind (though I can hardly blame anyone for that). A lot of hit-and-run fighters, a surprising number of ToB classes, but with all the rogues and scouts and such I really expected to see more staggering strike, true.
At a quick look, I'd probably say they went with Set because of his portfolio (he really likes assassins, yo) and because of the alignment restriction on assassin. Speaking of which; I count three of them this round, two psychic and one psionic, which strikes me as odd since neither gel with elocater that well at all.
Edit:
I want to just quickly point out how annoying this was.
The average character gets 7 feat in their life, and Elocater forces you to spend half of them on a bunch of awful dexterity-based feats. If you're not a human and you don't get any bonus feats, you get a grand total of one unique feat before level 10. One.
Good luck doing anything else before getting into the SI.Last edited by Muggins; 2016-12-01 at 10:36 PM.
The Forsaker: A 3.5e revamp.
Spoiler: CharOPIC 56: Bolivar d'Kundarak (Silver)
IC 76: Xander Marchand (Silver)
IC 82: North and East and Gripp (Tied for Gold!)
VC 17: Liridon (Silver)
JW 5: Nyan (Gold)
ZS 24: Isabel (Gold)
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2016-12-02, 12:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Got some good choices here I see and definitely some unexpected ones. I will hopefully have try to hace judging posted tomorrow.
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2016-12-02, 12:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXXXII
Not so much Vizinni... I had a second idea built around Telflammar Shadowlord, and it did mostly what I wanted, but I wasn't entirely happy with it. Here's what I had:
Race: Silverbrow Human
Stub: Monk 2/HnR-SA Fighter 1/Psion 2/Crusader 1/Elocater 7/Telflammar Shadowlord 4/Elocater +3
Ability Scores: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 8
Alignment: LE
Spoiler
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st Cobra Strike Monk 1 +0 +2 +2 +2 Concentration 4, Diplomacy 4, Hide 4, Jump 4, Move Silently 4, Spot 4, Tumble 4 Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Blind-Fight, Hidden Talent (dimension hop) Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, AC Bonus 2nd Cobra Strike Monk 2 +1 +3 +3 +3 Concentration 5, Diplomacy 5, Hide 5, Jump 5, Move Silently 5, Spot 5, Tumble 5 Mobility Invisible Fist ACF 3rd Hit-and-Run Sneak Attack Fighter 1 +2 +5 +3 +3 Concentration 5, Diplomacy 5, Hide 6, Jump 5, Move Silently 6, Spot 5, Tumble 6 Mobility, Dragonfire Strike Hit-and-Run ACF (Drow of the Underdark), Sneak Attack ACF (Unearthed Arcana), Skilled City-Dwller ACF (Tumble) 4th Psion 1 +2 +5 +3 +5 Concentration 6, Diplomacy 5, Hide 7, Jump 5, Move Silently 7, Spot 5, Tumble 6 Linked Power Nomad Discipline 5th Psion 2 +3 +5 +3 +6 Concentration 7, Diplomacy 5, Hide 8, Jump 5, Move Silently 8, Spot 5, Tumble 6 6th Crusader 1 +4 +7 +3 +6 Concentration 9, Diplomacy 5, Hide 8, Jump 7, Move Silently 8, Spot 5, Tumble 9 Spring Attack Skilled City-Dweller ACF (Tumble) 7th Elocater 1 +4 +7 +5 +8 Concentration 10, Diplomacy 5, Hide 10, Jump 7, Move Silently 10, Spot 5, Tumble 10, UPD 3 Sidestep Charge Scorn Earth 8th Elocater 2 +5 +7 +6 +9 Concentration 11, Diplomacy 5, Hide 11, Jump 7, Move Silently 11, Spot 5, Tumble 11, UPD 8 Opportunistic Strike +2 9th Elocater 3 +6 +8 +6 +9 Concentration 12, Diplomacy 5, Hide 12, Jump 8, Move Silently 12, Spot 5, Tumble 12, UPD 12 Metapower Dimension Step 10th Elocater 4 +7 +8 +7 +10 Concentration 13, Diplomacy 5, Hide 13, Jump 12, Move Silently 13, Spot 5, Tumble 13, UPD 13 Flanker 11th Elocater 5 +7 +8 +7 +10 Concentration 14, Diplomacy 5, Hide 14, Jump 14, Move Silently 14, Spot 7, Tumble 14, UPD 14 Opportunistic Strike +4 12th Elocater 6 +8 +9 +8 +11 Concentration 15, Diplomacy 5, Hide 15, Jump 15, Move Silently 15, Spot 10, Tumble 15, UPD 15 Psionic Meditation Transporter 13th Elocater 7 +9 +9 +8 +11 Concentration 16, Diplomacy 5, Hide 16, Jump 16, Move Silently 16, Spot 13, Tumble 16, UPD 16 Capricious Step 14th Telflammar Shadowlord 1 +9 +9 +11 +11 Concentration 16, Diplomacy 5, Hide 17, Jump 17, Move Silently 17, Spot 16, Tumble 17, UPD 16 Shadowsight, Shadow Jump 15th Telflammar Shadowlord 2 +10 +9 +12 +11 Bluff 1, Concentration 16, Diplomacy 5, Hide 18, Jump 18, Move Silently 18, Spot 18, Tumble 18, UPD 16 TWF Shadow Blur 16th Telflammar Shadowlord 3 +11 +10 +12 +12 Bluff 3, Concentration 16, Diplomacy 5, Hide 19, Jump 19, Move Silently 19, Spot 19, Tumble 19, UPD 16 Shadow Walk 17th Telflammar Shadowlord 4 +12 +10 +13 +12 Bluff 5, Concentration 16, Diplomacy 5, Hide 20, Jump 20, Move Silently 20, Spot 20, Tumble 20, UPD 16 Shadow Pounce 18th Elocater 8 +13 +10 +14 +13 Bluff 5, Concentration 18, Diplomacy 5, Hide 21, Jump 21, Move Silently 21, Spot 21, Tumble 21, UPD 18 Martial Study: Shadow Stride Opportunistic Strike +6 19th Elocater 9 +13 +11 +14 +13 Bluff 5, Concentration 20, Diplomacy 5, Hide 22, Jump 22, Move Silently 22, Spot 22, Tumble 22, UPD 20 Dimension Spring Attack 20th Elocater 10 +14 +11 +15 +14 Bluff 5, Concentration 22, Diplomacy 5, Hide 23, Jump 23, Move Silently 23, Spot 23, Tumble 23, UPD 22 Accelerated Action
One of the issues I had with it is the various methods I had to get dimension door weren't technically the same as a spell or SLA: Shape Soulmeld/Blink Shirt and the Shadow Jaunt maneuvers are (Su). I thought psionic dimension door should qualify for TSL's requirements, but that put off Shadow Pounce until very late in the build. It was also missing some feats I wanted, notably Improved/Greater TWF.
The Shadow Pounce Trifecta wasn't entirely solid: dimension hop as a swift action every turn could be done for 0 PP (via Linked/Metapower), but psionic dimension door cost 7 PP as a standard action, and the move-action Shadow Stride had to depend on the Crusader recovery mechanic, so it wasn't going to be there every round. I thought about replacing three levels of Elocater with Totemist 2/Knight of the Middle Circle 1, which gives me a move-action dimension door every round, but I found it harder to justify Elocater 7 when Illithid Slayer or something else might work better.
It's *mostly* there, and gets at least two full attacks a round, but last ingredient I rushed on the second build and it came out somewhat half-baked, so I decided not to push it this round.Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef: