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2019-05-02, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-05-02, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
How about you read the whole post. I stipulate real crossbow.
As for the political alliances, it doesn't matter.
It's not been on screen, so we can only guess. Your assertion that you have some insight on the "truth" of the matter is still unproven, and unsupported. But that does not stop you from asserting as true that which we can only guess at.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2019-05-02, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Firstly, that's one hell of a Strawman. Secondly, so what? How does the options of others effect what you consider the moral choice here? Spite is a poor motivating factor. You're Chaotic, aren't you? Why do you give a single **** what anyone, especially your ideological opponents, thinks. What do YOU think would be the moral option, not "what would be best to piss off Keltest"?
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2019-05-02, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-05-02, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
No, it is your interpretation. You are not a mind reader. What is clear from the quote is that "the marriage was not consummated," not the reasons why it was not.
Having a "pleasant personality" does not mean appreciating that "no means no." Rapists can look like anything. Conversely, non-rapists don't have to appreciate that "no means no." They just have to have, in fact, not raped anyone.Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2019-05-02 at 10:54 AM.
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2019-05-02, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2017
Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
I guess that's one benefit to the whole "die with honor" thing. When someone calls you up in the middle of the night and says they have a life-threatening high-stakes battle they could really use help with, there's hardly any hesitation.
Of course, when the person calling you up in question is Sigrun, I imagine it'd be all hands on deck anyway. Awesome mom with the life lessons as usual.
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2019-05-02, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-05-02, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 10:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
I'm with you so far.
who cared about what his wife wanted.
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2019-05-02, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
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2019-05-02, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Keltest; 2019-05-02 at 11:04 AM.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2019-05-02, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
He certainly could have listened. Whether he could have acted on what he listened to is another matter. But in fact he did not. He continued "badgering Hilgya with endless questions" even after she made it clear she just wanted to be left alone. That doesn't necessarily mean divorce - the marriage might have been tolerable if there was a constructive separation (i.e., living in the same household with little or no communication).
Granted, he could just allow her to leave...Which he did.
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2019-05-02, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Point of order: that is not true in general (Roman marriages were generally arranged and dissolved as politics dictated) and most certainly not true in Dwarven OotS, where Hilgya did obtain a divorce.
And since no-one but the strawmen you create is arguing in favour of forced marriage, why do you keep creating said strawmen?
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-05-02 at 11:05 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-02, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Ah, so you do have morals beyond Chaos. But answer me this: I agree with you on both counts. However, I still find your potion untenable because it is, to myself, a wildly disproportionate response. Would you label that as something you have a moral duty to argue aganist?
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2019-05-02, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
It is immoral to force someone into a marriage. Ergo, the Firehelms, except for Hilgya and Kudzu, must all die dishonorably and spend eternity under Hel's care.
She's Chaotic Good, really, to only bankrupt them, when you think of it.
There's a difference between arguing that "oh, she likely hit innocents" and arguing that "oh, the forced marriage wasn't a big deal/may have been deserved". It's why I don't argue for the genocide of the clan with you, just for the fairness of bankrupting the Firehelms.
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2019-05-02, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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2019-05-02, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2019-05-02 at 11:07 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-05-02, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
If familicide by itself can't determine a character's alignment, which it demonstrably can't, then no individual act can determine a character's alignment. If you want to claim that Hilgya's forbearance is a Good act, make the case (for the record, I don't buy it - it is neither a personal sacrifice on her part nor done of the sake of the dignity of sentient beings), but it alone says nothing about her alignment as a whole.
Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2019-05-02 at 11:08 AM.
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2019-05-02, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
Because you need to read more on psychopathy.
Not quite.
You argued with me that it was wrong to bankrupt the clan. And I did not become more extreme.
I did, however, become more extreme the moment Keltest chose to argue that what they did to Hilgya was just forcing her through a ceremony.
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2019-05-02, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
TW's only arguing to piss off his opponents at this point, I think.
Not actually an answer. The point he's making is that that if both a wildly disproportionate solution and one that would, itself, be evil. Pay Evil Unto Evil is not actually Good, in D&D or anywhere else.Last edited by woweedd; 2019-05-02 at 11:11 AM.
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2019-05-02, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1162 - The Discussion Thread
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”