OOTS #904 - The Discussion Thread

[Hopeless]

Thanks Giant!

: Here, catch.

Tarquin: Thanks for the gah!

Just what i was thinking except the target would be Nale and it will immediately be followed by Malack enjoying the subsequent attack by the elemental on Nale immensely!

[Goosefeather]

Well sadly with just the one monster there won't be any great cleavage...

On the other hand, Roy does have a magnificent set of perky round eyes

[Inuzuka]

Question is, who shows up next: Tarquin, V, or Ian Starshine?

Oh yeah, forgot Ian was out there somewhere, would be cool if he came to help his little girl.
Maybe he could arrive just in time to see Elan protecting her and realizing that he's not trying to use her?

[Phybender]

ok, now what? Haley is in immediate danger, I still wonder how Belkar got into the mess, Roy ruins the day via reasoning...

An amazing strip.

[luc258]

And boobies.

And a mop instead of hair.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0235.html

[Psyren]

Why do we assume this? The way I imagine it, the instructions for the elemental are:

while (humansExist()){
firstTarget = getPersonWithSword();
until firstTarget.isDead(){
attack(firstTarget);
}
attackEverybodyElse();
}

If it cannot kill the person with the greatsword, it should stop.

The problem with your code here is the "isDead" attribute. Redcloak said "kill everyone, starting with the human with the greatsword." If they drop the sword, there will indeed be no more "human with the greatsword" but that won't actually stop the second half of his orders.

In other words, you are incorrectly assuming "death" is the only way there will no longer be a human with a greatsword.

[Deepbluediver]

It is starting to seem like a possibility. Not that I can fully blame him, but you can't really stop people from speculating.

No, you can't.

My only regret is that if some one reads through the strips years from now, or in book form, they won't get the full weight of the joke.

But then again, it's probably at least a little presumptuous of me to assume the Giant is only speaking to us. The line certainly isn't out of place all on it's own.

[FolcoTook]

Why do we assume this? The way I imagine it, the instructions for the elemental are:

while (humansExist()){
firstTarget = getPersonWithSword();
until firstTarget.isDead(){
attack(firstTarget);
}
attackEverybodyElse();
}

If it cannot kill the person with the greatsword, it should stop.

Maybe. The question is, assuming it no longer sees a "human with the greatsword" to attack, does it stop attacking (being unable to complete its first command) or does it assume the human with greatsword target has been eliminated and move on to the rest of everyone.

--- Ninjas! ---

[Arin]

Why do we assume this? The way I imagine it, the instructions for the elemental are:

while (humansExist()){
firstTarget = getPersonWithSword();
until firstTarget.isDead(){
attack(firstTarget);
}
attackEverybodyElse();
}

If it cannot kill the person with the greatsword, it should stop.

Because (and I'm switching to BASIC here because, hey, it's a fantasy game) that's not the nuance of Redcloak's command. It was "Kill everyone, starting with the human with the greatsword."

So it's more like:

10 SET LIVINGPEOPLE = 4
20 FOR I = 1 to Livingpeople
30 IF WEAPON(I) != GREATSWORD THEN IGNORE
40 IF RACE(I) != HUMAN THEN IGNORE
50 ELSE SET TARGET=CHAR(I)
60 NEXT I

70 IF TARGET != 0 KILL TARGET
80 ELSE IF LIVINGPEOPLE > 0 KILL RANDOM PERSON
90 GOTO 20

God, we need lives.

[Trixie]

You know that never really did occur to me. Where does Haley keep her arrows?

Regardless of where, and how she draws them, she still has them on her character sheet. How is suspending of disbelief going to help Roy? Will he write some arrows into his sheet?

[Deepbluediver]

Because (and I'm switching to BASIC here because, hey, it's a fantasy game) that's not the nuance of Redcloak's command. It was "Kill everyone, starting with the human with the greatsword."

So it's more like:

10 SET LIVINGPEOPLE = 4
....

I don't know a lot about programming, but are you sure the spell specifies only 4 people? RC just said "kill everyone". In the absence of a limited duration or defeat, maybe the elemental would kill the OotS, then Tarquin & Co, then move on to the nearest city or town, work its way across the continent, then cross the ocean to get to the NEXT continent, etc etc etc.

[Goosefeather]

Regardless of where, and how she draws them, she still has them on her character sheet. How is suspending of disbelief going to help Roy? Will he write some arrows into his sheet?

I fear you might be slightly missing the whole point of the joke.

[Torrasque]

Nice to see that we can still cut away from deadly combat and have a bit of silly fun at our own expense :)

[FolcoTook]

God, we need lives.

For the record, I started rewriting it too: while(humansExist()) should really be while (everyone.exist).

Yeah, it's sad.

[Jay R]

"I can do both at the same time, thank you."

Best. Line. Ever.

Yeah, I've been on that date.

And a callback to the technicality.

Of course. Did you read the title of the strip?

So -- INT 10 or not, the elemental really is so stupid that it will continue to target whatever human is holding the greatsword. So if only Nale can get over hear, we can give him the greatsword and scram.

The INT score and stupidity have nothing to do with it. Redcloak could have meant either one. For instance, if the greatsword was +5 vs. Goblins, then clearly whichever person has it is the biggest threat against the one who summed the elemental. You and I know that's not the case, but the elemental doesn't.

The order was ambiguous. Note that Haley didn't say, "I'm the one you're supposed to kill first"; she said, "Are you sure I'm not the one you're supposed to kill first?"

She's trying to confuse it based on ambiguity.

[SlyJohnny]

Why do we assume this? The way I imagine it, the instructions for the elemental are:

while (humansExist()){
firstTarget = getPersonWithSword();
until firstTarget.isDead(){
attack(firstTarget);
}
attackEverybodyElse();
}

If it cannot kill the person with the greatsword, it should stop.

You'd think that 6 int would be enough for an Elder Elemental to parse that command in the way it was intended, not be driven to switch targets whenever a new human picks up a greatsword. Though I do like that kind of cleverness, and this strip was funny. Elan has been a lot less annoying and a lot more amusing, recently :)

Also, to all the people that slight the order for not overcoming this thing's damage reduction in a more organized way, remember that both the PC's that are likely to have ranks in Knowledge: The Planes are indisposed right now.

[Jay R]

All attempts to determine which precise computer code is equivalent to the order are equally incorrect.

It wasn't given in precise computer code; it was given in imprecise English. The order as given was ambiguous, and Haley is trying to exploit that ambiguity.

[Goosefeather]

Also, to all the people that slight the order for not overcoming this thing's damage reduction in a more organized way, remember that both the PC's that are likely to have ranks in Knowledge: The Planes are indisposed right now.

If there was an award for understatement, this comment would stand a strong chance of winning it...

[Samalpetey]

Prediction for the next comic (Since I haven't made one before, I think, plus it doesn't seem anyone else has in this thread)

Spoiler

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Next comic, title "Die by the technicality", possibly. V realizes he/she will be killed by the rubble on top of his/her body when he/she is returned to it, and/or Belkar takes Roy's sword, only to be killed by the elemental who no longer has a human with a greatsword to kill (We are meant to spoiler predictions, right?)

[Deepbluediver]

Question: if the title of this thread is the first half of a phrase, and the second half is of course "Die by the Technicality", who do we think is going to bite it?

Spoiler

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Belkar is the obvious choice, but you know who's name hasn't been thrown around a lot? Haley. Which is what would make it such a shocker.

She's got a small-ish HD and probably not a ton of Con, so a few good hits or being buried in sand for to long and she's likely to be explaining herself to a Deva.

It would be the perfect way to cap off the depressing-as-heck set of events we've seen so far this arc.

[Trixie]

I fear you might be slightly missing the whole point of the joke.

No, I am simply trying to assume most positive interpretation of it. The meaning some people proposed could be easily done on forums, doing that in story would be, just, well...

[Zephyrtheknight]

Huh? Roy is using a bow?!? Whaaat??? Although the whole "Haley grabbing the sword" thing was pretty clever. anyway: YAY AWESOME!!!

[FolcoTook]

Also, to all the people that slight the order for not overcoming this thing's damage reduction in a more organized way, remember that both the PC's that are likely to have ranks in Knowledge: The Planes are indisposed right now.

Just to be clear, I'm not slighting the Order, I'm just wondering when and who will be the person to notice they aren't really doing any meaningful damage to the thing and decide to switch tactics (try bludgeoning (if they have any), trick it into the rift, etc.).

[Holy_Knight]

And boobies.

Roy has always had those.

Hopefully Elan will have another burst of inspiration and trick the elemental with an illusory human wielding a greatsword. Then he just has to make it run away from the elemental, ever so slightly faster than the elemental can travel.

I keep waiting for the Order to figure out a way to send the elemental through the Rift, honestly. Since it seems to be made of sand and there's a huge ocean on the other side, that should be the end of it.

Would Elan still have any illusion spells left at this point? If he makes one of Roy and they manage to keep the real Roy out of its line of sight, that should do nicely.

This is the sort of thing I've been thinking they should do as well. Giving the elemental an illusory target is a good plan whatever followup they use.

[Gift Jeraff]

Well, Tarquin lives by technicalities (in his words)...

[Kish]

I wonder if the icy freshness is helping at all...

Doubtful. Immune to crits=an Elemental Burst weapon will never go off.

Huh? Roy is using a bow?!?

As he and Haley referenced, Roy is proficient in all simple and martial weapons as a class feature.

[Paisley]

"I can do both at the same time, thank you."

Best. Line. Ever.

Double your entendre, double your fun?

And trust Roy to get caught up in those pesky little details. Though I suppose that since V isn't here, the chore naturally falls to him.

[Friv]

Question: if the title of this thread is the first half of a phrase, and the second half is of course "Die by the Technicality", who do we think is going to bite it?

Spoiler

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Belkar is the obvious choice, but you know who's name hasn't been thrown around a lot? Haley. Which is what would make it such a shocker.

She's got a small-ish HD and probably not a ton of Con, so a few good hits or being buried in sand for to long and she's likely to be explaining herself to a Deva.

It would be the perfect way to cap off the depressing-as-heck set of events we've seen so far this arc.

Uh...

Spoiler

Show

They already died by the technicality.

I mean, not literally, of course. But Haley exploited technicalities in order to get the sand elemental to chase her, and then Roy got shafted because of the technicality that Haley doesn't have a quiver.

[Rover]

Well there were a few quivers with arrows in her bag of holding but she never sees to wear them.

[Mike Havran]

Nice Just a few more rounds of sword-play and the sand dude is gone.

Edit: Also, the third-to-last panel is priceless.