What is the laziest path to power?

[Conradine]

I was reading that entry on Television Tropes...


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/UnEqualRites


Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

[Rebel7284]

The laziest path to power is capitalism. Set up a pyramid scheme big enough and you can roleplay being an epic caster as a commoner 1 with all the rings of three wishes, etc.

[tiercel]

In terms of advancement, I’d have to say that Cleric and Druid certainly have one significant spellcasting advantage: free access to every single spell on their class list on any given day.

How much they are actually on the hook to the powers granting their spells or relevant organizations, when applicable, can depend on the particular DM and campaign, of course. (In my own experience, not very much.)

[Falontani]

Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

See, here is the thing. Sorcerers are born with a spark of power, that they can nurture, train, and grow into a massive amount of power.
Wizards do not have that inborn spark of power, and must spend years of their life studying to reach the point that sorcerers are born with, and then they too nurture, train, research, and grow that power into a massive amount of power.
Warlocks go with an easier alternative to the wizard, but a still very complicated and difficult road to go down. They must make a pact with some otherworldly denizen, usually a devil, for that spark of power. They are then given a spark that is usually larger than the spark the sorcerer starts with, but then have to grow their spark as well. After the warlock's final passing the warlock returns the spark that they have grown through so much pain and effort back to complete their pact.

You want to know who really doesn't deserve their power? Favored Souls. Favored Souls are chosen at birth to wield power. They don't have to go through the arduous amounts of faith and blind worship that the cleric does, they just have their magic, and will it into being. Divine magic is way easier than arcane magic to use. Both arcane and divine have components, they both have Verbal which is an incantation. This could be as simple as speaking the spell's name aloud, to as difficult as exceedingly difficult lengthy and precise words. It is never directly given what the verbal component is. Next we have the somatic component. This is very different for an arcane user and a divine user, as an arcane user has Arcane Spell Failure to contend with. The rational behind Arcane Spell Failure is that the somatic (arm wavies, or hand moving, etc) is more precise and harder to do with limited maneuverability. This conversely means, that a divine spellcaster who does not suffer arcane spell failure, has much simpler somatic components. Something that can be done easily enough in even Mountain Plate or Mechanus Gear. Next component up is the Material component. Both arcane and divine have material components, but more arcane spells have material components that are usually more complex than divine material components. Finally we get to the Focus. While there is a focus required for relatively few spells on both sides, usually inexpensive arcane foci are still multiple different items, while inexpensive divine foci are usually as simple as the holy symbol of your deity.

My personal headcanon is the following:
Arcane verbal components when it isn't Language Dependent are more complex often involving different languages such as Ignan, Auran, Draconic, Terran, etc.
Arcane users have more difficult somatic components, usually waving about of the arms, or precise hand/finger wiggles.
Arcane users require more material components in order to use their magic.
Arcane users require more specialized foci.
Divine verbal components are usually as simple as a prayer spoken aloud, sometimes in celestial, infernal, or abyssal.
Divine somatic components are usually simple hand placement, or at most some horizontal and vertical motions of the arms.
Divine material components are relatively rare, and usually common.
Divine foci is usually as simple as a wooden carving of their holy symbol.

So Favored Soul has it the easiest when trying to become a powerful spellcaster.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

In terms of advancement, I’d have to say that Cleric and Druid certainly have one significant spellcasting advantage: free access to every single spell on their class list on any given day.

How much they are actually on the hook to the powers granting their spells or relevant organizations, when applicable, can depend on the particular DM and campaign, of course. (In my own experience, not very much.)

They require worship, reverence, and effort, though.

Now, sorcerers, on the other hand, were born with their power, and they automatically know everything they can do, somehow having the knowledge that dancing the Macarena while singing "I'm a Little Teapot," and throwing bat poo will somehow conjure evocationate a fireball spell.

Of course, that requires sorcerers to gather bat poo, as well as all the effort it takes to dance and sing like a moron.

Wilders, though, just get really mad and frowny-face the world into submission and become extra powerful through the power of sulking. In fact, they don't need to do the frowny-face thing, since their powers don't require any somatic components; it just tends to happen regardless. No study, no dancing or singing, and no running around collecting random types of poo to throw at enemies. Oh, and no throwing poo, either, or worrying about procuring a holy symbol. They were just born "special" (in both senses of the word). Granted, psions are vastly superior in pretty much every way, since wilders are basically an NPC class, but you said "laziest," not "best."

[AvatarVecna]

Sqcrifice rules let you get wish-loops started if you can nail a DC 50 check, amd there's explicit ways to get huge bonuses to that check.

[Tvtyrant]

I was reading that entry on Television Tropes...


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/UnEqualRites


Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

Binders are canonically suppressed because binding is so easy anyone can do it. It also barely has down sides, giving cheap, easy magic to the population.

[The Viscount]

Remember that in 3.5 Warlocks are just as often, if not more commonly, warlocks because of inherited power rather than deals, just like sorcerers. That's 0 effort. As for who has it easier between them, I would argue warlock still has it easier since they don't have to learn spells or even expend the mental energy to count how many slots they have. Their invocations are all at will, and durations are typically 24 hours, so there's no keeping track of those, either.

[TheCount]

obligatory Pun-Pun mention.

That aside, Luck. after all, if you are at the right place at the right time, you can get free stuff.

[Gruftzwerg]

obligatory Pun-Pun mention.

That aside, Luck. after all, if you are at the right place at the right time, you can get free stuff.

Remember that in 3.5 Warlocks are just as often, if not more commonly, warlocks because of inherited power rather than deals, just like sorcerers. That's 0 effort. As for who has it easier between them, I would argue warlock still has it easier since they don't have to learn spells or even expend the mental energy to count how many slots they have. Their invocations are all at will, and durations are typically 24 hours, so there's no keeping track of those, either.

All I wanted to say have been said ... QQ

but I could add to warlock...
Since we talk about lazy, I would say craftlock (warlock 12/chameleon 2). At lvl 14 you can start to craft scrolls of 9th lvl and even epic spells if your UMD score is high enough. Cheat WBL and craft your way into nirvana. Don't forget to pick up Scupt Self (with the floating feat) and abuse it together with a toughtbottle to give you all kinds of cool extra abilities.

Just wait till my Orochimaru build is finished..^^ he will show you the laziest way to power xD

edit: since we already have pun-pun I would like to add my BoBaFeat build who is on he same power lvl (just needs entire 20lvls to get that far compared to pun pun who can do it starting from lvl 1..^^).

[Sutr]

Have your parents talk about divine mandates be born. Maybe marry an adventurer. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/aristocrat.htm

[Quertus]

Be born a god?

[Gnaeus]

In PF, witch. Spend an hour a day playing with your pet.

PF + official third party updates of 3.5? Daevic (desire). Spend an hour a day communing with your daeva by engaging in an act related to “carnal pursuits”.

[Segev]

Seconding Wilder and recommending going into Thrallherd. Takes some careful building, but that can be done without the character knowing it was “hard.” And now he also has flocks of believers telling him how great he is and how hard he works while rushing to do everything for him.

[Particle_Man]

Perhaps dragonfire adept deserves a mention? Like warlock but neither you nor your ancestors need to make a pact.

I guess it also depends on what level of power vs. effort one is going for. I mean barbarians and totemists don’t even need to learn how to read! Even commoners can read.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Perhaps dragonfire adept deserves a mention? Like warlock but neither you nor your ancestors need to make a pact.

I guess it also depends on what level of power vs. effort one is going for. I mean barbarians and totemists don’t even need to learn how to read! Even commoners can read.

I can see a barbarian being like Victor Tugelbend, who put more effort into being lazy than most people ever do into working.

Gotta get those muscles somehow, and it's worth being able to bench press a Buick if you can avoid having to exercise your brain a bit, I guess. After all, the brain is the most calorie-intensive organ in the whole body by more than an order of magnitude, IIRC.

[InvisibleBison]

How do you define power? Because it seems to me that the absolute lowest-effort way to gain power is to inherit a bunch of powerful magical items, which requires exactly zero effort. It's not generally a viable method for a PC, though.

[KillianHawkeye]

How do you define power? Because it seems to me that the absolute lowest-effort way to gain power is to inherit a bunch of powerful magical items, which requires exactly zero effort. It's not generally a viable method for a PC, though.

Much like IRL, being born rich is always a good way to go.

[Epic Legand]

I think what needs to be defined is how are you defining power and easy. My guy works nonstop 24-7. There with one line I now have 100% effort...but zero real effort on my part. Vs " I was born with that"...which to the in game character, is a huge difference...but to us, is zero difference. "Power", to a commoner, a $1,000 GP is immeasurable wealth, to a PC is nothing. a top end warlock is nothing compared to a top end cleric or wizard. That warlock needs to then spend tons of time building stuff to start competing with the wizard, and at the end of it, both of them spend more effort then the cleric.
Is this a measure of the PC's effort, or the characters? Is this a measure of power vs other player characters? Or a measure of power in the setting? Without those terms being defined, you can't have a discussion.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think we can all agree that the easiest path to power probably isn't the path to the most power imaginable. So at that point, we're left with doing a cost/benefit analysis on how much power we can get versus the amount of effort it takes.

[mabriss lethe]

Incarnum is pretty low effort.

[Quertus]

I think we can all agree that the easiest path to power probably isn't the path to the most power imaginable.

I dunno, I think "being born a deity" could be a contender on both counts…

[The Viscount]

Is there any lore for deities that were born deities?

[Falontani]

Is there any lore for deities that were born deities?

I mean an Atropal (EPH) is pretty darned close.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I'm gonna say Mountebank (Dragon Compendium). Literally all their power comes from a fiend, to the point that when they get enough of that power they become permanently under its control and turn into an NPC. That suggests even less personal investment into their powers than Warlocks, Wilders, and Favored Souls. OTOH, they're also much weaker than any of those classes, so their effort:power ratio might not actually be lower.

[Telonius]

I was reading that entry on Television Tropes...


https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/UnEqualRites


Is that true?
Making a pact with a fiend and become a Warlock is easier than being a Wizard or a Sorcerer?
In short, what is the class which requires the least effort and dedication to advance?

Laziest path: Rite of Crucimigration. Become a Necropolitan. Find a nice place to chill. Do nothing for a few million years, gaining the Evolved Undead template as many times as you want. You now have an arbitrarily high Strength, Charisma, Natural Armor, and a gigantic number of SLAs per day. (Find a way to get Scintillating Scales to make the Natural Armor help out in all circumstances).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Laziest path: Rite of Crucimigration. Become a Necropolitan. Find a nice place to chill. Do nothing for a few million years, gaining the Evolved Undead template as many times as you want. You now have an arbitrarily high Strength, Charisma, Natural Armor, and a gigantic number of SLAs per day. (Find a way to get Scintillating Scales to make the Natural Armor help out in all circumstances).

Put yourself into mental suspended animation (there are ways and ways) to keep from going insane, and keep your body in a fast-time demiplane. If the time dilation is high enough, you won't even have to stop adventuring for more than a few hours for the millions of years you did it.

[Psyren]

If we define "path" as something the character can choose to pursue in-universe, rather than being a product of heritage or providence, then a lot of the suggestions here stop working - including sorcery, being born a deity, being chosen by a witch patron, or even having an ancestral warlock pact in place to the current day.

If we restrict it further to something the character can pursue and have a decent shot of succeeding at, that narrows the band even more. Psionics and wizardry are technically disciplines anyone can follow, much in the same way that anyone can technically become a neurosurgeon or astrophysicist, but in practical terms, very few people do. Even Incarnum, considered a simpler form of magic, has issues of obscurity and its (living) practitioners needing to be uncommonly hale and hearty.

That leaves things like divine magic and binding. The former is easy enough at a game table - just pray at a certain time each day and make sure your adventuring goals line up with the ethos of your object of worship - but in-universe piety is much more complicated as you have to observe rites, holy days, make offerings regularly and the like.

All of that is a long-winded way for me to vote for Binding in the spirit with which I feel the question was asked.

[noob]

Pretend to be a fighter then follow a party of wizards then get your share of the loot for mysterious reasons and then use the money to solve problems as if you were a full caster.

[newguydude1]

In terms of advancement, I’d have to say that Cleric and Druid certainly have one significant spellcasting advantage: free access to every single spell on their class list on any given day.

How much they are actually on the hook to the powers granting their spells or relevant organizations, when applicable, can depend on the particular DM and campaign, of course. (In my own experience, not very much.)

clerics and druids have strict codes of conduct and rituals and crap they need to deal with or lose everything forever.

---

the easiest path to power is just grab two feats: obtain familiar and improved familiar. then select mirror mephit at level 7.

so pick bard. you dont need to be born lucky. you dont need to study. just sing sing sing and you become a god.