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Thread: Love Letter Mafia
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2021-09-11, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
Spoiler: My Leans/ReasonsMr. Popo: This man's shoulders must be tired from carrying the discussion so hard. It's refreshing to see somebody who isn't me pulling a townie gambit. Murska and the rest of the old guard are way better than me, but don't tend to go for showy plays. I appreciate that, and it's giving wonderful insight into Popo's mindset. Locktown, even more so than...
Libro: Despite their professed opinion to the contrary, effectively the uncounterclaimed Countess. Only thing that would make me feel stronger about this lean is if they participated more since I know full well they're an experienced player who understands the game better than most and it frustrates me to no end that they don't post more aaaaaaaaaaaa
Snowblaze: Some questionable stuff here and there, but overall seems genuine. Just is trying to get a mech plan to work in a game where mech really can't work - most of the questionable weird stuff arises directly from that.
BatCatHat/Book Wombat/EmmyNecromancer/Rogue_Alchemist/Supagoof/Xihirli: Very few posts with anything that really provokes thoughts from me. Inactives aren't here, Xihirli is Xihirli'ing, sky is blue, ho hum.
bladescape: bladescape is fairly quiet and not putting forth too much to think about, but that strikes me as kinda weird. I've generally gotten an impression of activity from them in previous games, and now they're kinda quiet. Makes me nervous, but I don't really have anything I can point to as a weird take.
Rogan: Rogan's arguments feel weird at times, just slightly off. Missing the point in ways that I feel were very obviously stated. But there's not a ton of it.
gac3: Is mostly flying under the radar, apparently missed the game after being the one to let the others know where the thread was, and one of their few posts is doing a classic wolf move. Doesn't feel great.
JeenLeen: Bunch of little weirdnesses adding up into a pile of suspicion. If JeenLeen looked normal, I'd be looking weirder at Popo for suspecting them, but this isn't striking me very well either. One post in particular had a bunch of little things to call out.
AvatarVecna: Obviously, lockscum, as usual. Never to be trusted, lynch D1, vig-shoot N1, whatever it takes.
Spoiler: All Votes Not Crossed Out
Vote Count
Batcathat (1): Supagoof
SugapoofSupagoof (1?): gac3
AvatarVecna (1/0?): Rogan(?)
Mr Popo (4/5?): Libro, JeenLeen, Xihirli, Rogan(?), Book Wombat
JeenLeen (5): Batcathat, Snowblaze, bladescape, Mr Popo, AvatarVecnaLast edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-09-11 at 05:03 AM.
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2021-09-11, 04:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
Sugapoof? Sugar puffs? Sounds sweet.
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2021-09-11, 04:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
I think Mr Popo played way back in the day, but despite him implying in a post that he's played with me before I honestly can't for the life of me recall when.
It could be another layer deception (and tbh, probably is). When people think they have you figured out, they act sloppier. if Mr Popo acts certain about particular people he secretly suspects, they're a bit more likely to relax and slip up. It's kinda like Godwin's Law: on the internet, the easiest way to get the truth isn't to just ask your question, it's to assert with confidence an answer you know is wrong so that somebody else will feel compelled to correct you.
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2021-09-11, 04:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
I welcome votes on me from gac3 and book wombat directly after accusing them of being wolves.
Let's get Jeen and gac3 and Book Wombat on me all in a line, posing for a picture.
I want it for my scrap book.
So now, because I have the evidence I need, I am ready to pull out the hammer of justice and show you where and why and how I got to literally all my reads.
And then it seriously doesn't matter whether Jeen and gac and Book get me dead today or not.
It literally makes zero difference to the outcome.
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2021-09-11, 05:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
I honestly didn't see your post calling me out before posting. Probably wouldn't voted if I had seen it.
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2021-09-11, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
General replies to AV, not quoting because I don't trust myself with quotes.
That "secrets" line in my RP does look rather like I'm soft-claiming Princess, doesn't it? (Being Chaotic is actually fun, I should try it more often!)
The Princess not being able to network isn't because of what you've said, it's because once they've revealed they can't be targeted by actions other than the nightkill. There are probably some variants of the plan that would work differently but it's not really relevant at this stage. I'm done with mechanics.
On "I was hoping that wouldn't happen": I wasn't expecting town to fakeclaim confirmed town roles. Also I wanted a day one without counterclaims and that sort of drama for once. Which was stupid of me, really.
Why am I the only one who doesn't get words about why I'm town?
And on bladescape, a) he said he'd be casual this game and b) he was a wolf in the last three games so acting differently isn't really a fair reason to suspect him.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
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2021-09-11, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
This could of course be a lie to make me look more Town, up to you what to think.
EDIT: Addition to my previous post.Last edited by Book Wombat; 2021-09-11 at 05:05 AM.
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2021-09-11, 05:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
Even if you're telling the truth about both not seeing it and being town, it's still not a great look, you understand? Like, "If I were a wolf, I would've seen that trap and not stepped in it" gets into WIFOM - it's easy for a wolf to step into it on purpose and then be like "a wolf would've been too smart to step in the trap".
EDIT: It doesn't help that more than one of your posts comes with a "I guess that looks kinda wolfy? lol oh well" afterthought. Classic TWTBW.
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Yes, and it should be a hard-claim (but not a bold one).
The Princess not being able to network isn't because of what you've said, it's because once they've revealed they can't be targeted by actions other than the nightkill. There are probably some variants of the plan that would work differently but it's not really relevant at this stage. I'm done with mechanics.
On "I was hoping that wouldn't happen": I wasn't expecting town to fakeclaim confirmed town roles. Also I wanted a day one without counterclaims and that sort of drama for once. Which was stupid of me, really.
Why am I the only one who doesn't get words about why I'm town?
And on bladescape, a) he said he'd be casual this game and b) he was a wolf in the last three games so acting differently isn't really a fair reason to suspect him.Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-09-11 at 05:07 AM.
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2021-09-11, 05:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
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2021-09-11, 05:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
I already hardclaimed Princess. I'll do it again, if you like: I'm the Princess ;)
I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
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2021-09-11, 05:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
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2021-09-11, 05:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
So you look at gac, for example.
This is the sort of vote I see often from wolves on day one random voting stage. I do not think that Gac and Suga are partners for this vote.
the purpose of these kinds of votes are:
1) Blend in, it is random voting stage.
2) No real reasons given, so wolf has as many options as possible
3) If votes start piling on Supagoof after this point, hey, maybe it will provoke a claim.
Simple simple.
So what else did gac do today?
Non-threatening fluff comment to get on AV's good side. "i know exactly how you feel, fellow townie".
Nothing nothing nothing Page 2:
"I am not paying close attention to this game. Sorry, fellow townies, I shall catch up."
followed by:
"I am tracking the claims and otherwise not solving the game or doing anything."
Purely being concerned with claims and mechanics and lurking is what wolves do a lot, particularly when they're bad at being a wolf.
Me trying too hard for a town read:
At first, I read the "this is not a this seems wolfy post" aspect as possibly being a struggling townie catching up rather than shading people. It took reading AvatarVecna town for me to get to the point where I needed to really boot someone from my village because too many villagers, and this is clearly the worst stretch I made to get to a town read which I realized literally as I was presenting it in my first leans wall.
This is a post only talking about himself. this can happen, but it shouldn't be this much of what you're doing on a given day.
Clearly the most interesting thing that has happened thusfar this game is I claimed count and someone thought gac might be worth questioning for that awkward return post.
Nothing else interests gac enough to talk about yet.
After being accused of being a wolf and suspected by multiple people, Gac returns to discuss only myself, his accuser.
So again, self focused.
And here is the big giant 999 foot tall flaming scum tell, right here, in bold.
Accusing a townie of inconsistency.
"This townie should accuse literally everyone in the game who voted for a townie, otherwise they are being hypocritical and inconsistent."
That's right, this is how townies think.
Remove all context, all other possible difference makers between Supa and anyone else, and insist that "by your own logic" there have to be like 9 wolves in the game.
This is called being an unfair juror and it is also the mega flaming scummy "inconsistency is the hobgoblin of wolfy minds" scum tell.
This person is a lock wolf, never rescind, is literally always guilty.
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2021-09-11, 05:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
Re: Love Letter Mafia
...calling out inconsistencies between how a player talks and how they act is a part of catching wolves, though. Most of the conclusions in that post feel pretty solid, but "if you call me out on my inconsistencies, you're scummy" isn't a great take.
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2021-09-11, 05:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
This is a vote for a townie for zero reasons, the exact same thing as gac3's opener.
The wolfy purpose of which is stated in the wall I posted about gac. It's the same shiz, and even distancing oneself from responsibility by claiming the dice made him do it.
You know who didn't do that? Rogan.
I harshly disagreed with it, but Rogan was basically plopping his big manly balls all over Vecna and saying LOL I SHOULD KILL YOU EVERY GAME FOR FUNSIES.
Which is downright toxic if it's not actually a joke.
But you know what that isn't? Avoiding responsibility for his own vote. Which is why Rogan is a big manly villager right now and Book Wombat is getting slammed shut by this entire village.
Pure mechanics speculation which is not even the case because we have claimed Princesses and Countesses.
"Who knows?" Padding. This is staggeringly bad "I am thinking about this game" pretend roleplay.
That's page 1. Does he improve?
You don't say!
This is pure commentary mode, zero threats made against wolves, zero direct or indirect pressure, zero solving done. Haven't seen even one villager read yet.
Surely something villagery happened on page 2? Nope? Okay.
Three strikes and you're out, Wombat.
I accuse Wombat and immediately Wombat appears, flinch flinch lurky lurky wolfy flinch flinch caught you, scummer.
"off" is such a slam dunk case.
Way to distance yourself from the responsibility of my townie death by saying "off" and "Dunno".
You're clearly confident this kills a wolf.
Obviously, frankly.
Book Wombat can get owned by this entire village.
Book has zero townies, has voted for two townies, and admits the timing of their OMGUS is a bit suspicious.
GLAD WE AGREE.
When you have this many villagers, hitting wolves is shooting fish in a barrel... of laughs.
- - - Updated - - -
Read the specifics of what was said, one more time.
You absolutely can get this. Absolutely you will have zero struggle with this concept.
I suggested the wolf team (of three) probably plopped their votes all over townies today.
Yes, of course, some townies did that as well. Of course. What person in their right mind thought i implied otherwise?
Now, put yourself in gac's shoes.
He is literally suggesting every vote on a townie is equal.
Which means we have more wolves this game than townies.
There can be no context whatsoever that makes one vote on a townie wolfy, and another villagery.
No context, no reasoning.
Simply accusing someone for being wolfy and voting for people I think are villagers is scummy because hey, villagers also voted for villagers.
Which makes sense exactly in the universe where I had zero reasons to town read anybody, and in literally no other universes.
That is EXACTLY a wolf suggesting a townie "should" think all votes for townies are equal.
It is EXACTLY a scum mindset, and literally never a townie mindset.
Literally no townies ever, ever, ever think in this specific way, even yourself, who believes that wolves behave inconsistently.
Townies do it way more, so I harshly disagree with you philosophically, but even if you believe it, you know for a FACT that particular logic is bogus in the extreme and that was literally the logic being presented.
No townie thinks that way including you who thinks that calling out inconsistencies (this generic? Give me a break!) is a good way of catching wolves.
You have to disconnect your brain and pretend not to be able to think like a human being, in order to PRETEND to believe that.
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2021-09-11, 06:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
In at least the past ten games my first vote was random. In this game it was no different. Most other players should know about this.
EDIT: Oh, whoops. Past nine games.
Don't have much to say about the other things.Last edited by Book Wombat; 2021-09-11 at 06:05 AM.
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2021-09-11, 06:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
I'm just saying that "he called me out on a perceived inconsistency" is not smoking gun evidence. Getting into the weeds makes it look worse, but your initial response to it painted "calling out inconsistencies" with a very broad "this is wolfy" brush.
I calls em like I sees em and that doesn't stop just cuz the person getting called out is in my town reads. It's still only D1.
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Honestly also this. This is just kinda how people vote.
"AV is always sus so vote them D1"
"RNGesus says to kill AV"
"AV needs to die for screwing us over last game"
"killing AV before they get to play is funny"
None of these are concrete reasons to vote me this game, even if some of them maybe look like real reasons. Early D1 votes never have actual reason behind them, and so far that looks like the basis for Popo's leans on gac3, Book Wombat, Rogan, and his early lean on me. Literally his whole evidence for a case against me that he wasn't outright stating at the time was "voting somebody for basically no reason".
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2021-09-11, 06:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
One of my problems with Mr Popo are absolute statements like that. But it might be a difference in play style.
I don't know what I should make of him and if anything he does or suggests is really something he thinks best for town, a ruse to hide his true intentions and lure the traitors into a false sense of security, or a wolf playing too much like a wolf in order to deceive everybody.
I think he is willing to take a risk, no matter the alignment.
And now I am sitting here, wondering if I should trust my gut, trust some more experienced players (hoping they are not all allies) or do something different altogether.
I think in some ways, Mr Popo is similar to AV. Both very fond of the manipulation part of the game. I tend to go against AV for the same reasons. I should leave my tunnel and read everything again, trying not to let my prejudice cloud my views.
Unwilling to vote today:
Rogan, Libro, Snow, Xi, BatCatHat, Emmy, Rouge.
AV (it would still be funny, but that's not sufficient reason for a vote anymore)
Mr Popo is in a weird spot. On the one hand, many things would make sense as a Town player, on the other hand, just as many things rubb me the wrong way.
I think there are arguments for a vote for Mr Popo, gac, book and Jeen.
I am going to cross out my votes and check again which of those targets will, in my opinion, yield the best results.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-09-11, 07:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Love Letter Mafia
JeenLeen is a bigger monster, but here, I have way, way more evidence to show you.
For your convenience I have bolded and color coded the stuff I refer to.
Opening lines: Sure, let's have our important roles claim.
I like the feel of Snowblaze's plan which I think is townie, but she could also be a wolf.
But I do not think she is a wolf, therefore she is a town lean.
"I agree" it's worth getting our princess killed and getting the countess killed, in the unlikely event that after this plan a wolf claims countess, when the setup has a countess and the wolves know that.
The only part of that which is remotely like villaging at all is reading Snow as town. Everything else is wildly wolfy.
And really, why wouldn't you read a townie town who is suggesting to hand over the important roles you otherwise have to seek out and murder, and are worried about voting for and getting OMGUS voted when they hard claim (which is one way to out them, but if you can do it without voting them at all, all the better!)
And now, I shall vote for AvatarVecna, a townie, because they voted Libro, a different townie.
You see, it's his fault I am voting there, more or less. Avoiding responsibility when that's wrong.
So, full of wolfy agenda and blame shifting. All in just the first post.
Let's continue:
Here is this post:
Hi, Xihirli, your roleplaying is non-threatening to me, and I shall buddy you.
I shall vote in a way that deliberately does not hunt you if you are a wolf because reasons villagers shouldn't use.
"I agree" scumtell goes off a second time in two posts.
This is diplomatic and ingratiating and furthermore, has been performed by literally every. single. wolf. team. I have faced. In the past year. Every single game. Without exception. None.
Multiple times, from multiple wolves, in the correct wolfy context of buddying and being ingratiating and +1'ing some villager's post.
This tell is inaccurate to the point that townies can do it a lot too. So I never, ever use this tell alone.
I always combine it with several other wolf tells, because then, the accuracy skyrockets.
So, mechanics talk fills the remainder, with hedging as to whether it is pro town or not. Gives points on both sides.
Nothing else of substance on page 1.
More mechanics talk.
Further, this post strongly implies that Jeen is not the princess. Which is something a villager should be more careful NOT to do.
But obviously a wolf has no such concerns.
Which, combined with the multiple "I agree" tells and stalling in the mechanics discussion, has given me three reasons to scum read JeenLeen already.
So after discussing almost nothing at all but mechanics for three posts, Popo steps in and shuts it down.
Because it's disastrous.
And then Jeen continues to discuss mechanics and specifically disclaims being the princess, which draws attention and is wolfy and therefore bad to do as the princess.
And it's bad to do as a wolf because it's wolfy.
Doing wolfy things is pretty bad when it's early game, no matter what your alignment is.
Lurking, not solving.
Taking two positions at the same time, in the bolded parts.
Only discussing claims and mechanics.
"Odd, interesting, strange, weird" are all terms that wolves use instead of taking a stand as to whether someone is wolfy or villagery.
Combined with explicitly not voting there, that's extra wolfy.
You posted after Mr. Popo claimed, but did not claim then. So I'm assuming you're lying.
If not, want to throw a bold to back that up?
Eh... I was going to wait until 5 pm to post this, but I'll go ahead and post it now.
After a little more thought, I started having second thoughts aboutSnowblaze's plan. I wrote up my arguement against it shortly after my first post, but was waiting to post it until giving others' time to vote and talk.
But then I accidentally closed Notepad and lost it. So trying to write it up again.
Would wolf!Snowblaze propose this plan?
How bad is it if we mislynch town!Snowblaze? (Keeping in mind we will probably mislynch D1 anyhow.)
I realized this plan effectively eliminates a large amount of the Town's power, at little to no risk to wolves.
The Princess is revealed, but her vote is nullified. She becomes a null player.
The Countess is revealed, but since the wolves know who the Princess is, she won't help catch wolves.
The handmaidens are occupied, and thus won't stop the wolf NK or other actions.
This effectively gives the wolves free reign to target with minimal risk of getting caught, and, while it creates a town-verified duo, they only have 1 vote between them. And the Baron (if even Town) can't communicate with either to expand a private network.
So, yeah, there's watcher powers and maybe the Guard(s) could catch someone, but it's less likely if those roles are occupied. That's a good setup for the wolves to have time to hunt out the rest of Town and be able to overwhelm the Countess and Princess via controlling the lynch, especially if (as the plan is going as intended) wolf!Snowblaze has a lot of towncred and thus coasts safely.
Now, Snowblaze's plan does have some merit. Not saying it doesn't. But I'd trust it a lot more if we knew Snowblaze's alignment. So I propose lynch her.
First: Snowblaze's plan is good and can help town and reads villagery.
Then: The plan has some merit. Not saying it doesn't. But let's lynch Snowblaze to confirm Snowblaze is town, for no reason, and then continue to encourage townies who shouldn't claim day one to claim on day one.
Did Libro counterclaim Mr. Popo?
I dislike Libro's maybe-implied-counterclaim, while he explicitly states he's on break and thus sets the groundwork that he doesn't have much time to post and has a rationale for not being able to clarify anytime soon. It feels like something a wolf might say to get a wagon on Mr. Popo, only for the wolf to be able to clarify "too late" during the weekend when posting might be low.
Also fishing for claims again.
Though I guess I'm paranoid enough to contemplate that the wolves might be trying to gain towncred via both of them being wolves and hoping at least one becomes trusted. But that seems unlikely between role-switchers that could fail, watchers that could see a supposed-Countess targeting, and Guards maybe able to confirm an unswitchable Role. But that's probably too bold a move for wolves to make. On the other hand, I could see wolves doing that if they had sufficient numbers (4+?) and knew there was no Countess in play.
...urgh, confusing.
This is pretend struggle, not natural behavior.
I could see that scenario, but I think it more likely that wolf!Snowblaze would plan for the plan to succeed (to gain towncred), but that the plan isn't actually as good for town as it sounds.
But, yes, I also have a complimentary paranoia about Snowblaze.
I'm pretty sure the wolves do not contain all of Snowblaze, Libro, and Mr. Popo. Seems too bold to do two schemes D1 (Libro-maybe-counterclaim-Popo in a double-fakeclaim-Countess move, and Snowblaze's plan). So if two of those three wind up flipping wolf, I trust the third. Yet, the longer I let the paranoia stew, the more I could consider it as possible. So crazy a gambit the wolves feel compelled to take it, since no way the Town would believe it. And not like any seers exist in this game.
Note: when I wrote the long chunk of stuff above, Snowblaze's claim was "not Countess or Princess". I also take her latest claim as joking, but, uh, felt like I wanted to clarify since that context did maybe-change.
Takes two positions at the same time.
This is not a natural development of reads, it is a justification of a position taken.
Instead of making reads fit the evidence, Jeen is forcing the evidence to have no effect on his own votes or "beliefs".
That's backward and what wolves do.
Which Bat immediately sees. And so do I.
If I ever town read Vecna, I would immediately yeet Jeen into the sun based on their body of work thusfar.
See all this bolded?
This is explicitly never the Princess.
It is also riding the fence so hard Jeen has to be bleeding below the belt by now.
And then Jeen doubles down on basically lynching Snowblaze to confirm that Snowblaze is town and for basically zero other reason.
Instead of deciding for oneself if the plan is a good plan, we have to somehow kill the person who proposed it.
Then we'd know if it was good?
Because villagers never come up with specious plans which they have good intentions about but can seriously backfire, of course.
There is no wolfier argument than "I think this person's ideas are good, we should yeet them to make sure the person proposing the idea is town, before we proceed."
That is not even an accusation of being a wolf.
But I tell you what, JeenLeen fighting machine, you think the idea is good, so let's execute YOU and see YOUR alignment before we proceed.
That's my response to that.
One more attempt to get Jeen to vote for people they can believably think are a wolf as opposed to voting villagery people for wolfy reasons.
One last chance, because we need every active townie we can get, even one with their head so buried in mechanics and claims they are flat out not solving at all, nor even voting for someone I can believe is even their own suspect.
Final warning before I yeet the Jeenie into the sun.
"Odd / interesting / weird / strange / dislike / feel"
All of these words in the context of an accusation are shifting the blame and distancing from one's own suspicion.
Instead of saying your suspect is actually suspect, or suspicious, or wolfy, or scummy, or outed, or howling, or definitive stances, you continually hide behind passive aggressive language.
Indirect accusations are wolfy.
Say "Odd" again.
You will know MY NAME IS THE POPO when I yeet you into the sun.
There is a reason so many people wanted to vote for Jeen today, their iso literally is an entire tire yard caught ablaze, with very very little in the way of possible counterindicators.
The sum total of their villaging this game is to suggest Snowblaze is a villager and then suggest we yeet her to make sure.
This one can get flipped today, no holds barred, no lines, no waiting.
Straight into the sun.
(Giant pause separating these two walls)
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You can yeet all four of them, in any order you please.
That's only a dumb idea when there's a fourth wolf at this point.
Now I can spend the next several hours going over how I town read each person in sequence, describing for you how in the blue heck I got so many villagers to begin with, but let's give people the quick summary.
Supagoof is likely town because gac3 is likely a wolf and voted him d1 in the rvs stage for the reasons I wager are a wolf.
That's it, that's all I got on goof. Their one post is also strikingly warm and fuzzy to me on a visceral level that I cannot put into words.
Obviously, I cannot blue this person. But man, if gac is a wolf, why would your next arrest be Goof?
Especially after gac came back with the argument that I should suspect goof for the reasons I suspected Gac.
That's not wolf/wolf a LOT.
BattheCat has been flowing, natural, waterfall thoughts all game, snap voted Jeen for all the wolfy stuff Jeen did, and is clearly in high spirits, no tension, when they made the jokes about Vecna not even needing justification to be voted.
Not my top villager read, but has done literally zero wolfy things all game and has been very alert and participating and actually hunting of wolves.
What more do you ever need? Hunting villagers is literally this simple when wolves do not have a game that is superior to this hurdle.
Good wolves clear that hurdle, but we're not dealing with those if my reads are correct.
Xihirli
Everything in the bolded here is super natural, believable, and it rings absolutely true.
Immediately opposing the mass claim, having no idea about the setup, just wanting to roleplay, getting pocketed by Jeen who is wolfy as heck?
Yeah, that's good enough for a day one town read. You better believe Popo about that one.
I marked Xi down as not today and she has only gotten better from there, while everyone below Xi got worse.
How about bladescape?
That's all the exact correct reaction to everything that happened all game at that point.
Instead of sitting here discussing mechanics, blades is giving out actual town reads and gave a suspicion and a big fat warning that I am an ultra wolf that no one should ever just trust no matter how townie I sound.
THAT is how townie blades would react to suspecting I am in the game.
With that one post, he is already leagues and leagues ahead of all my suspects in terms of actual villaging. That's how little effort it actually took.
Is that *safe*? Could he not be a wolf if my wolf reads are wrong?
Blades is one of the greatest wolves of all time.
He's also one of the greatest villagers. And guess what, he randed village this game, finally.
How about that? Not even difficult.
Snowblaze is easily town for her plan, her reactions all game, her town and scum reads, and Jeen trying to kill her to prove she is town.
That one wasn't difficult either.
She also claimed Princess quickly, but was also clearly playing along, which indicates a spirited, free mindset free of tension.
if this one is wolfing, congrats. I never hit here unless literally all my suspects are wrong. 1 out of 3 wrong, you can consider her at LYLO or MYLO only. That's how strong that is.
AvatarVecna is the comeback king and has been the most staggeringly villagery person by cold read since their mediocre opening post.
They are villaging light years ahead of my suspects, easily in my top 4 townies of the game now, and that's combined with me and the person who can only ever be the Countess, which reminds me:
Libro is the countess and therefore always town.
My gambit proved that to be the case. Just like when Chessgeek and I claimed masons, and the real masons claimed, we proved that they were really the masons, because wolves do not counterclaim 2 claimed masons EVER.
And also, 2 wolves do not claim to be masons EVER.
So town had twice as many masons that game because I lied to them!
Libro is now my mason buddy, one way only, because I lied, openly, deliberately, and obviously about being the countess and even told everyone I was lying about it.
Rogan is the lawful paladin to my chaotic evil genie.
Dude has the towniest mindset and is not afraid to claim responsibility for their votes or discuss all their actual town reads and scum reads.
It shouldn't be this trivial, but it is.
And if you people think I would ever arrest EmmyNecromancer or RogueAlchemist today over any of gac3, Book, or Jeen, you are out of your minds.
I refuse to give the wolves a single villager. Not one. Not even if they are not here to defend themselves.
And if there are 4 or 5 wolves, THERE THEY BE.
We can deal with them later.
This has been Mister Popo, the guardian of Earth, and THIS IS HOW I VILLAGE.Last edited by Mr Popo; 2021-09-11 at 07:32 AM.
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2021-09-11, 07:55 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Behind you. RIGHT NOW.
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
On one of these days, we snuck up there and passed a few cans of beer around, still warm from being hidden outside. I had scanned a bag of pot into evidence earlier that week and suggested we use it. Perhaps if we’d been a little more sober, we might have realized it wasn’t a very bright idea, but we weren’t, and we didn’t. It wasn’t difficult to get, either. It was stupidly easy to walk into evidence, stuff it into my trousers, and walk out. Mixed with the thrill of theft, it was the best high I ever had. We sat around the bell, rusted so bad it had turned Liberty green.
I wonder what it looks like now. Maybe I ought to take photos of that, too.
Okay, went to work and then sleep. Catching up, Popo became the lead lynch for a second then chimed in with a post essentially saying "I meant to fake-claim and get caught. It was all a clever ploy, you see."
And that's fair enough I suppose. It did strike me as... a risk a wolf wouldn't need to take at this point. Now that's no guarantee, but ultimately I have decided to cross out my vote. If Popo sparks discussion and activity like this every day then every day we keep him alive is a good thing at least in that end.
That said, I've not been pulled over to the JeenLeen wagon. Popo's got a lot of information going toward JeenLeen, excepting one crucial thing, and that is experience playing with Jeen. Now I've run a game that Jeen was playing in and I've been in games with them for... what, the last year? It's been a fair few. And I will take a second to say that Jeen always acts like this. Now, in Jeen's defense, or rather, not at all, he is also usually Neutral, so my town-read on him may be off, but looking at his behavior D1 in my Yu-Gi-Oh! game, it was full of statements like "I'll be up-front that I'm aware this totally can look like a wolf defending himself, but..." and "I don't want to answer this too fully -- I wrote up a lot of IF-THEN scenarios then deleted them..." ALMOST saying a lot of things. He also sort of bumbled around with the rules (misidentifying the Baner role, asking over the phase mechanics), and I say that as a proud bumbler around with the rules. Jeen learns by doing and doesn't usually hit his stride day one. His behavior today has been consistent with his town behavior.
So I'm looking for alternate wagons.Spoiler: Check Out my Writing!
https://www.patreon.com/everskendra
I post short stories in the middle of every month, and if you want to follow my novels as they’re edited and written, you can join as a patron!
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2021-09-11, 08:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Love Letter Mafia
I agree with most of this but another thing about Jeen (admittedly based on my own lesser experience) is that he usually have pretty solid plans and "Let's lynch Snow to decide if we should follow her plan or not" still strikes me as a weird one. Of course, maybe it's a smarter plan than I think or maybe Jeen just has a bad day, but it's still my main argument for voting him.
That said, an alternate wagon probably wouldn't be a bad idea.
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2021-09-11, 08:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
- Location
- Aiur, low orbit
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
I don’t think I’ve ever come close to matching the high-volume posters such as yourself, at least not in recent history.
The main reason for that is I have an unshakable habit of excessive self-editing. The poem post took ~ three hours. I took an hour composing this one. Between work this past week and personal issues I needed sleep last night. I didn’t want to funnel more time into keeping pace with this speed-demon of a thread.
an obvious fakeclaim.
I think I’ve managed to catch up on the discussion since my last post, but something feels fishy enough about the current wagons that I’m not shifting my vote just yet. No evidence just a gut feeling. I’ll aim to post again in 3-4 hours or so.
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2021-09-11, 08:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
I won't say anything other than Mr Popo used to play here.
He's also a good player.
He's also going a lot harder than I think we're used to around here lmao.
Migraine abating and I have some free time so I now gotta take gamestate reads and turn them into Medieval prose.
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Just getting it out before I have to prosify everything:
Libro is also town.
Another thing:
Popo should know that I can probably fake that opener as wolf.
I suspect his read is more "These other people are probably scum so that puts you towny and you're doing initial reads" but still kinda meh.
PSA:
Popo will say "This person is definitely wolf" while he doesn't believe it that seriously. He uses certainty of statement to garner gamestate reads.
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I removed the hideous colour.
Also given I've randed wolf all my games on this site since I returned so far you'd think "weird/different" would be a good thing.
But then I guess Snow gave me a townread for being different last game and we all know how well that turned out. =PLast edited by bladescape; 2021-09-11 at 09:11 AM.
"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2021-09-11, 09:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
I disagree about your interpretation of Jeens mech / clarification posts being bad for town. Especially the post where he made sure that the Princess can claim without using her power. It is important for everyone in the game to be on the same page regarding the actual rules. They are the law, so to speak. And if there is confusion about the law, you absolutely should ask an authoritie. The narrator in this case.
I disagree about the part of
"Odd, interesting, strange, weird" are all terms that wolves use instead of taking a stand as to whether someone is wolfy or villagery.
I think it's pretty normal to be insecure about day 1 reads and asking for a second opinion. In fact, this seems more natural than your behavior, but I think those are different approaches to the game.
Same thing, but to a lesser degree, about preparing posts.
But now, there is the real problem with Jeen.
He was willing to arrest someone who made a plan that could be risky in order to check if this plan was good. That's stupid.
It would give the traitors time to plan and change the basic premise of the plan. It would add additional complications to the plan, like the risk of accidentally losing personal important to the plan. You want to test a plan in a way that is not useful for testing the validy of the plan while simultaneously weakening the plan.
I don't blame anyone being confused about things that are meant to be confusing. But being confused is not a positive thing either.
So I can agree with this plan. Vote Jeen now and get a flip. Best case, we get a wolf. Worst case, we will still have some vote movement to analyze day 2.
I am glad you are going to explain your town reads some more. I only skimmed them by now, I think the post will be big enough already.
I promise I will read them properly and make my mind up about them by the time I actually move to my computer.Spoiler: I'm a seer
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2021-09-11, 09:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
Dearest,
It pains me to bring such word to your ears, but the Queen and Princess have come to conflict now. I find myself, even now, embroiled in such politics, although I long for the estate on which we shared so many years. But, alas, duty calls and as such I have but to provide council and participation in this playground of paranoia as noble and servant alike narrow their eyes at each other and attempt to root out those who follow the Queen's way.
Of such, of course, I have but a perspicacious mind. Many acknowledge it, but I find myself ill-inclined to put such strenuous effort upon my own brain when I have other matters to attend to. Still, perhaps informing you of my situation and beliefs will find an ease that not only are my discoveries kept safe, but that you may live vicariously through my words and perhaps experience the daily discussion and investigation yourself.
Though the paranoia is but tedious.
Of good news to share, it seems that an old friend has returned. Count Popo, if you recall him from his visit to our estate. He grows weary with life but still musters spryness I envy and an energy and vigour I cannot hope to match with my now aching bones. He has seemed good to be around thus far, but I know his wily words are difficult to distinguish and risk much in considering him perhaps a safe friend. I will of course gladly work with him, but his words are of poison should he harbour affection towards the Queen, and I must analyse each missive from him within such consideration. One thing that perhaps abates my concern is how their viewpoint matches mine at times.
Of similar virtue, a lovely chamber-maid who bears the name of Snow. She has perhaps been the most enthusiastically ardent in her attempts to defend the Princess, and I cannot help but find sincereness in her pleas. There is little concern I have of her to be one of a more fluid integrity, and I cannot help but thing she is of sound mind and astute observation. I cannot help but attribute her insistent defense of the Princess is a perfect elaboration on how our dear Princess has touched the minds and hearts of the common folk, of which she is a most courageous supporter.
Alongside her, the Countess Libro is of utmost virtue, if I am to believe the titles. Though I am not one for much pomp and vigour, I do note that of much recent history that title has been one that has aligned itself with the Princess' cause. I find it unlikely that they would bring such valour to her highnesses name while also harbouring ill-will. I refuse to believe such loyalty would be betrayed by venom.
There is also the matter of the poet and playwright Xi, of which I cannot help but swoon in awe of their creative prowess. Of course, their obvious loyalty to the Princess is of import as well, but perhaps I am too blinded by their words and wit to concern myself with the more trivial or political matters regarding them.
I have more concerns of the accountancy of Gac. A willful man, he has pleaded forgetfulness in the face of the royal court, and I cannot help but wonder if this were perhaps a ruse. I am of little mind to hang one such as him over such a small violation of social etiquette, but I must keep such concerns alive, and not let such information to die in the drains of our memories.
But most of my concerns dwell at the feet of Jeen from house Leen. Marquis Leen is of great concern, whose arguments flit between concern that the young servant Snow's plan comes from a place of ardour or a place of devious trickery. I am most concerned that he suggested such a thing as to trial Snow, as if we could not investigate the quality of her plan without knowing her allegiance.
More-over, their reaction to suspicion in light of their opinions has not roused much sympathy in my heart. I would be fine seeing them and their family hang, for the good of the Princess and those that serve her.
Forever yours,
With as much love as the starlight sky dares bequeath upon these mortal eyes,
Asterion 'Blade' Feneris, of the Moonlit Scape
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This is a hilarious post if you know the original context this is referencing.
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If my experience tells me anything it's that it's not as open/close as it looks right now.
Guarantee one of Jeen/Gac is red tho.
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I'm tempted to make a case on R_A for memes.
(Context: As wolf last two games I cased R_A D1 and tried to flip them.)"Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"
My almighty and all knowing extended Signature lies HERE! Now includes awesome quotes!
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2021-09-11, 10:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
A few notes:
I don’t necessarily agree with every aspect of Mr Popo’s cases, but I agree with his conclusions; I independently think Jeen/gac3/BW have all been wolfy to some extent.
I’m not as confident on the townreads of bladescape or Xihirli as he is, I think both could fake their posts so far as wolves. Plus they’re both always wolves, going by recent statistics.
And it’s Batcathat, not Batthecat. Speaking of whom, if you want an alternate wagon, why not start one yourself? (Just... ignore the unholy mess that is the grammar of that sentence.)
Yeah. It’s probably not this easy - a rule I made for myself a while back was “if you think you’ve solved the game on day one, you’re wrong”. But I also think it’s too early to be re-evaluating and tinfoiling, and there’s a pretty good chance Jeen is a wolf (I was just going to say the fact they haven’t posted recently doesn’t look great, then I remembered they said in recruitment they’d be less active on weekends.)
So I’m okay with the gamestate as a whole rn - this will probably be my last post before EOD so I wanted to make that clear.
Also I’m overdue another piece of RP.
The servant was being noticed, now. The Count, or Priest, trusted her, another noble praised her “sound mind and astute observation”, and someone had suggested she could be a conspirator. Which, secret or no secret, she certainly was not.
The agreement seemed to be that her accuser was wrong, and perhaps a conspirator themselves. All seemed well - or relatively, considering the situation. Which meant that something was going to go horribly wrong very soon. That was always the way with these things.
Still, she hummed a merry tune to herself as she prepared the nobles' rooms for the night. For now, at least, there was peace and calm.I'm writing stuff, come and read it!
Werewolf games won: 24
Werewolf games lost: 14
Games as town: 23.5
Games as neutral: 5.5
Games as wolf: 9
Games narrated: 1
Deaths: 17
Extended Signature
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2021-09-11, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Behind you. RIGHT NOW.
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
Sure, I’ll go for one. When in doubt, butcher the silent, right?
EmmyNecromancer
On mobile, else I would have included a letter fragment.Last edited by Xihirli; 2021-09-11 at 08:52 PM.
Spoiler: Check Out my Writing!
https://www.patreon.com/everskendra
I post short stories in the middle of every month, and if you want to follow my novels as they’re edited and written, you can join as a patron!
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2021-09-11, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Love Letter Mafia
I definitely agree about Jeen and at least partly about gac but I don't really have opinions either way on BW. I should go back and reread some stuff.
Indeed, if being wolf buddies with them last game taught me anything, it's that both of them are scary good at playing townies. Though I still get a town feel from Xi and I agree with whoever said blade is acting differently this game (last game he was driving the discussion a lot more, for one thing) which might be a good sign. So neither of them would be my first choices for either town or wolf.
Yeah, my biggest worry is that we lynch Jeen and he flips town. If that's the case I'll start doubting everything.
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2021-09-11, 11:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2017
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
Vote Count:
Batcathat (1): Supagoof
Supagoof (1): gac3
Mr Popo (3): Libro, JeenLeen, Book Wombat
JeenLeen (5): Batcathat, Snowblaze, bladescape, Mr Popo, AvatarVecna
EmmyNecromancer (1): Xihirli
Not voting (3): EmmyNecromancer, rogue_alchemist, Rogan
Hopefully nothing wrong.Last edited by Book Wombat; 2021-09-11 at 11:37 AM.
Fleeting dreams of paper wings.
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2021-09-11, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2016
- Location
- Aiur, low orbit
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
I don't think I'll get anywhere with my analysis until I have more concrete data (lynch/night results) to work with, so I'll be leaving my vote where it is and seeing what happens.
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2021-09-11, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: Love Letter Mafia
As much as I like you, Xi, you won't convince me to vote for someone with literally 0 posts and therefore 0 connections to any other player.
Missing my vote, but I didn't spot anything else to be wrong. But I didn't check everything, so everybody active should take a look to see if their vote is placed correct.
Unfortuanatly, I had some short notice change of plans, so I won't be able to be active for the next 4 hours. But I will check in again before going to bed. Don't know for sure how long, might depend on the level of activity here.
Sorry about that.Spoiler: I'm a seer