What do we know about Owlcat's Wrath of the Righteous?

[Sloanzilla]

Mixed feelings here:
1. Thought it was a well written adventure path,
2. But Mythic rules were a disaster and, in my opinion, not even needed.

Also,
1. I enjoyed Kingmaker, but
2. The point that it was rushed and buggy is a very legitimate point.

I'm actually trying to replay Kingmaker right now and just not feeling it.

[Leon]

Looks good, like everything it will be a game to play after it has been out a while and stabilized from any issues they may have at launch

[Sloanzilla]

are they attempting Mythic rules or just bypassing them?

[Zombimode]

2. The point that it was rushed and buggy is a very legitimate point.

Only if the game remains in that state.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

are they attempting Mythic rules or just bypassing them?

They're tweaking the Mythic rules, with a number of specific mythic paths like Angel, Lich, Trickster, along with the opportunity to reject them for an extra challenge, which os called the Legend path.

[Spore]

are they attempting Mythic rules or just bypassing them?

Yes, but they are not using the actual classes. They have

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Plus Swarm-that-Walks and Gold Dragon.

[Keltest]

Ive also heard that theyre straight up incorporating a turn based mode instead of RTWP, since it was by far the most popular mod for Kingmaker. Ive pretty much gotten over my enjoyment of RTWP over full on turn based, so this is exciting for me.

[Aotrs Commander]

If Owlcat maintain the standard of (completed) Kingmaker it will be perfectly fine.



If you remember that it's nowadays often worth just waiting for a game to be patched/completed before trying to play it (since very few games these days are not pretty buggy on release) and just be more patient, it's fine.

I backed Kingmaker, and only just started to play it in September (with the turn-based mod - I chucked them an extra few quid for making the TBS option official). It was fine; the issues I had with it were pretty much to encounter design artifical difficulty (Wild Hunt, looking at you), it was otherwise pretty bug-free at this point.

I'm waiting for WotR for a year or two, what's waiting a bit longer until it's actually "finished?" I've already given 'e, my pennies, might as well wait a bit more for a smoother experience.

(Hell, these days, I don't think I actually play pretty much ANY game on release, and being a year behind is actually no uncommon.)

Patience, as they say, is a virtue.



(Classic example: War for the Overworld, very buggy and incomplete on release (not that they had much choice), patched and supported and is very very close to knocking DK1 off the pillar of one of the best gaems of all time.)

[Zombimode]

I'm waiting for WotR for a year or two, what's waiting a bit longer until it's actually "finished?" I've already given 'e, my pennies, might as well wait a bit more for a smoother experience.

(Hell, these days, I don't think I actually play pretty much ANY game on release, and being a year behind is actually no uncommon.)

Same here. A year after relaese would actually be early for me. 2, 3 or even more years is not uncommon. I've played Witcher 3 in 2018, both Divinity:OS as well as Kingdom Come Deliverance in 2019.

There is no reason for me to play a game after right after release:
- it may be unstable and buggy
- it may be unfinished because all content updates/DLCs are obviously not there yet

If a developer states that there won't be any content updates, I will consider playing the game after a couple of months (after the initial patch phase).

The last game I've played right after release was Halo: Reach (the Steam version). But that was a port of a finished game.

[Narkis]

They said they've learned from Kingmaker's release and will not repeat the same mistakes. They also bought their independence with Kingmaker's money, so they won't have a publisher forcing them to release early. I'm hopeful this time it'll be playable on release, if not perfect.

[Sloanzilla]

Yeah, I may wait 6 months. Hoping they keep the LGBTQ+ components of the module. Curious how they will handle the infamous Iomedae's bells scene from Book 5.

Thanks for the answers! Kingmaker was a very ambitious project that I mostly enjoyed, but it had its moments of frustration.

[Keltest]

I do kind of hope they let you tone down the "the plot says you need to get a move on or you lose the game" aspects. You gave me a big open world Owlcat, let me explore the darn thing without worrying about whether my kingdom is going to be eaten by trolls or owlbears if im not there to rubber stamp the papers allowing people to solve those problems.

[Seerow]

I do kind of hope they let you tone down the "the plot says you need to get a move on or you lose the game" aspects. You gave me a big open world Owlcat, let me explore the darn thing without worrying about whether my kingdom is going to be eaten by trolls or owlbears if im not there to rubber stamp the papers allowing people to solve those problems.

I mean this time instead of managing a Kingdom you'll be leading an army, I can't imagine that leads to things being less pressing and more open to exploration. But hey, you never know.

As an aside, they made the turn based option officially built into the game, but RTWP is still the default, so anyone who enjoys that play style will still have it. Even better, it can be switched on and off at will. So if you hit a particularly annoying/grindy part of the game, you can turn RTWP on and just chop through the horde in a few seconds, then switch back to turn based when you get to more interesting fights.

The Mythic Paths are super interesting to me, I feel like they're going to give the game a ton of replay value. Above and beyond modifying your class/gameplay in pretty extreme ways, they each get their own major story, still a subplot to the main story, but it's supposed to be pretty significant, and there's 9 different options there.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I hope they do this too.

One of the big things keeping me from actually PLAYING Kingmaker (besides my newfound hyperfixation on Warframe) is paranoia about the time limits and the order to do quests in to achieve the best endings. The game's just got so many moving parts to keep track of!

[Sloanzilla]

I can see what you are saying - I got the "extra ending" and probably did 95% of the stuff required for the "super extra ending"- but didn't quite get there. Hard to go back to it, but I do think it is cool that there are so many options.

[Aotrs Commander]

I can see what you are saying - I got the "extra ending" and probably did 95% of the stuff required for the "super extra ending"- but didn't quite get there. Hard to go back to it, but I do think it is cool that there are so many options.

Mhm.

I did pretty well-

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I didn't kill Nyrissa and restored and redeemed her, but I don't THINK I correctly romanced her; actually, I don't think I managed to romance anyone actually...

- and did the majority of everything, though I did have to tank a few kingdom hits to get max ranks at the end there. (And that was with save-scamming the crap out of all the kingdom events the whole time.

I think the pressure was enough that it made me NOT rest just whenever (it actually twisted my arm into actually USING CONSUMABLES especially in the early stage of the game, something I NEVER do) without actually putting too much time pressure on.

Though yes, I did wiki a lot of stuff, since Kingmaker does have a bit of a tendacy to "gotcha," right from the get-go, so that's not a great point in its favour, admittedly. (I can't imagine how anyone could manage on ironman...!)

[Sloanzilla]

Hope I remember how to do spoiler tags here but...

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I think there's a "perfect ending" where you don't just not kill Nyrissa, but you actually kill the Lantern King. I got to the King and beat him, but my ending text was still bittersweet.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, we now know it's officially funded...!

[endoperez]

(Classic example: War for the Overworld, very buggy and incomplete on release (not that they had much choice), patched and supported and is very very close to knocking DK1 off the pillar of one of the best gaems of all time.)

I was actually super intrigued by this comment, because I had written that game off after the initial release was disappointing. I actually started a whole new thread about games that required patches to reach greatness. If you'd like, feel free to write about War of the Overworld and why the patched game is so great in here.

[Narkis]

Hope I remember how to do spoiler tags here but...

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I think there's a "perfect ending" where you don't just not kill Nyrissa, but you actually kill the Lantern King. I got to the King and beat him, but my ending text was still bittersweet.

Spoiler: Kingmaker ending

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What you got was the default if you beat the Lantern, yeah. The Super Secret Ending requires romancing Nyrissa, unfortunately. To do that you have to pick the right dialogue options with her throughout the game, ie remain courteous even after she betrays you and put the wellbeing of your kingdom above everything else, even her. You also need to finish 13 out of 16, iirc, curse research projects. When you beat Tartuk, Vordakai and Armag there are hidden knowledge checks that get them to tell you more about their curses. You need to get Vordakai's dialogue, and EITHER Tartuk's or Armag's. Tartuk also needs to outlive Hargulka. You need to get the Briar, either from Irovetti if she doesn't get the Occulus, or from her House before you fight her. And you need to not be romancing anyone else at the moment, other than Kanerah who will break up with you.

If you manage to do all this, you can tell her you love her instead of fighting her. She accepts the Briar back which makes her whole again. In the final chapter she works on figuring out a loophole to the Lantern King's curse. And after you defeat him in the final fight you turn his curse against him (He who claims this land claims its pain), and he disappears from the face of the earth.

It was a great ending. I was extremely disappointed that you couldn't do it without romancing her.

[The Glyphstone]

The one thing about Kingmaker that I remember really irritating me was that you only got 1 chance per level-up to discover hidden side areas, and the roll was invisible. This meant that I had to go into endgame with 1 area - the black dragon's lair - undiscovered and unexplored, of the entire map, which bothered the heck out of my perfectionist streak.

[Aotrs Commander]

The one thing about Kingmaker that I remember really irritating me was that you only got 1 chance per level-up to discover hidden side areas, and the roll was invisible. This meant that I had to go into endgame with 1 area - the black dragon's lair - undiscovered and unexplored, of the entire map, which bothered the heck out of my perfectionist streak.

You could buff you character with something like Owl's Wisdom potions and have a try (or fetch previously unused paty members), but yeah, it is frankly better to save-scam until you get it in a lot of cases. That Kingmaker very much encourages save-scamming to the point it's practically like they expected you to do so and intentionally did stuff like that is not one of it's strengths I will definitely concur.

I enjoyed Kingmaker, but I was screaming at thr RNG as often as I am playing Crusader Kings 2 or something. (An issue much less prevanlent in, say Pillars 2 or D:OS.)

I mean, I still have, like, 400+ hours on CK2 despite it's shortcomings in that department, but if I was less bloody-minded...

[Kesnit]

I do kind of hope they let you tone down the "the plot says you need to get a move on or you lose the game" aspects. You gave me a big open world Owlcat, let me explore the darn thing without worrying about whether my kingdom is going to be eaten by trolls or owlbears if im not there to rubber stamp the papers allowing people to solve those problems.

According to the article in PC Gamer, that has been removed since it annoyed so many players.

[Narkis]

According to the article in PC Gamer, that has been removed since it annoyed so many players.

Which is a shame. I, for one, enjoyed the single game that was serious when it told you a threat was urgent. It's always made little sense that your sister was imprisoned, the world was ending, or the kingdom was getting invaded but there really was no rush, you could take all the time in the world to explore and do the sidequests and the bad guys would wait for you.

It was much better in KM: First you deal with the immediate problem, and then you have some free time to play around. It's not like the time limits were especially strict. And they were great to discourage you from resting after every other encounter or making a dozen trips back and forth to loot all the trash items.

[Keltest]

Which is a shame. I, for one, enjoyed the single game that was serious when it told you a threat was urgent. It's always made little sense that your sister was imprisoned, the world was ending, or the kingdom was getting invaded but there really was no rush, you could take all the time in the world to explore and do the sidequests and the bad guys would wait for you.

It was much better in KM: First you deal with the immediate problem, and then you have some free time to play around. It's not like the time limits were especially strict. And they were great to discourage you from resting after every other encounter or making a dozen trips back and forth to loot all the trash items.

I can understand wanting to not allow just rest spamming things, but I think Mask of the Betrayer for NWN2 actually did that a lot better by having a depleting meter that you could keep filled if you made the most out of your day, but would kill you over time if you were really inefficient about resource usage. Ultimately, a time limit kind of shoots the devs in the foot a bit, because then you feel like you cant actually play in this big world they made.

[Aotrs Commander]

I can understand wanting to not allow just rest spamming things, but I think Mask of the Betrayer for NWN2 actually did that a lot better by having a depleting meter that you could keep filled if you made the most out of your day, but would kill you over time if you were really inefficient about resource usage. Ultimately, a time limit kind of shoots the devs in the foot a bit, because then you feel like you cant actually play in this big world they made.

That meter was why I never finished Mask of the Betrayer. It felt like I was being rushed through the game (and having half the companions be primary casters on top was ludicrous).



Kingmaker's time limit is much more generous, I think; you DO actually have time to do everything, with a bit of planning (judicious placement of settlements and aviaries/teleport buildings - the only buildings really worth it - as well.) I was only pushed for time to max my kingdom out, not to do all the actual adventuring, and even then, my kingdom stats stood to tank a couple of weeks at the very last to get it absolute maxed out.