How about that Valve and/or Steam, eh?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Thanatos has been blown into many pretty giblets.
On the upswing, though, I am now five "Shoot-in-the-back" kills away from switching back to the normal scattergun for a bit.
I also have something like 250 lifetime kills as a scout. I know this because I'm tracking the "Year to Remember" acheivement.

[Phase]

So my headphones broke... again. What is this now, three times in as many months? I'm buying three new sets to last me until October.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Alright. Fine.

You should be happy to know, Ruts, that I'm currently downloading Freedom Force.
Mostly to see if I can't make a GEWABA in it.

[Rutskarn]

Alright. Fine.

You should be happy to know, Ruts, that I'm currently downloading Freedom Force.
Mostly to see if I can't make a GEWABA in it.

Make a gewhat now?

Also, good idea, it's an awesome game.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Make a gewhat now?

Also, good idea, it's an awesome game.

Gunner Elf With A Bad Attitude

And you were just gushing about the thing on Lawful, I'd hope you think it was awesome.

Also: found out my anti-virus is the likely source of my lag. It's running a scan.

[Dogmantra]

lifetime kills

Something I never understood: what is a lifetime kill?

[Myatar_Panwar]

As I walked to the teleporter, my sixth sense was tingling. Surely they'd reached it by now...just in case, I disguised as an enemy spy. I arrived. Sure enough, there was a pyro and medic camping there. They ignored me, I stepped respectfully to the side, and then went in to backstab the pyro.


I was not ignoring you. In fact, I almost hadoken'd you. So close.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Something I never understood: what is a lifetime kill?

I don't play, so expect this to be wrong, but I think lifetime kills is just the number of kills you've made over the life of your account.

[Rutskarn]

I was not ignoring you. In fact, I almost hadoken'd you. So close.

A-ha! It was your arrogance that was your undoing!

Still, the medic didn't do jack.

Also, I made a new spray.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1306/spyratespray.png

[Kyouhen]

A-ha! It was your arrogance that was your undoing!

Still, the medic didn't do jack.

Also, I made a new spray.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1306/spyratespray.png

That spray is awesome. You should get some sort of animation in there. :smalltongue:

[Dogmantra]

Rutsky, if you make one of the Scout dressed up as Stephanie with "Yarr Har fiddle de dee" written on it, not only will I love you forever, but I'll set it as my spray and go around servers with you spraying it next to yours.

[Joran]

Something I never understood: what is a lifetime kill?

The number of kills you've accrued during your entire lifetime of playing the game. Or in other words, how many kills that you've gotten since you've started playing the game/achievement was enabled.

So, each time you play and kill someone, your lifetime kills go up by one.

[KBF]

So my headphones broke... again. What is this now, three times in as many months? I'm buying three new sets to last me until October.

Oh my god, I thought it was just me. This is my 5th pair. In as many months.

Which sucks, because my last 3 were really nice. And now that I've got a way to stop freaking tripping on the cord, I've got these 10$ ones. Which is okay, because they are real nice anyways and they don't have a mic, so I don't have to talk. :smallsigh:

[Rutskarn]

Rutsky, if you make one of the Scout dressed up as Stephanie with "Yarr Har fiddle de dee" written on it, not only will I love you forever, but I'll set it as my spray and go around servers with you spraying it next to yours.

http://www.yourprops.com/norm-479a60f3830b6-Batman+Begins+(2005).jpeg

I'll look into it.

[wojonatior]

A-ha! It was your arrogance that was your undoing!

Still, the medic didn't do jack.

Also, I made a new spray.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1306/spyratespray.png

The spy needs to be smoking a cigar,not a cigarette, because he is a pirate.

[Dread Cthulhu]

Warning; irritating glitch picture.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5006/whattlc.jpg

So, has anyone else had this?

[Thanatos 51-50]

Warning; irritating glitch picture.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5006/whattlc.jpg

So, has anyone else had this?

Yes - I noticed that on Chaotic earlier.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Warning; irritating glitch picture.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5006/whattlc.jpg

So, has anyone else had this?

ALL THE DAMN TIME. It's really annoying, and has caused me to die more times than I can count, since sometimes it's not practical to go around and I have to risk the blades.

[TheLogman]

I've seen it since just after the Classless update, and I've been seeing it since.

[Fawkes]

I was just playing CTF_sawmill on the RoFL servers, and the saws were fine.

Plus, they have the hat mod! :smallbiggrin:

[TheLogman]

Well, the final word is out.

Idling is banned, all idled items are gone, and everyone who didn't idle got a hat.

Kinda jarates me off, that they wouldn't do anything, and then take a hard stance so many weeks after it came out.

But whatever. I guess I'm just gonna go ahead and play every once and a while.

But with school and everything, it's not like I'm gonna be playing that much, plus with so little new content from the new update, there's not much new stuff to play >.>

[Worira]

Wow, uh, that's an impressive pile of BS there, Steam. Especially this part:


Meanwhile, everyone who took the moral high road will soon be finding a new hat in their inventory. We've also significantly increased the chance of finding any of the existing hats.

"So yeah, we totally screwed up and had nonexistent chances of finding hats. Therefore, we're going to punish people who decided to idle without throwing their bandwidth in a toilet by using a real idle server."

As for moral high ground, I'm seriously considering deleting my unearned high-ground hat. Go me, I didn't do something that wasn't against the rules anyway! Woo!

[Player_Zero]

'Moral high ground'?

Wait, how is idling immoral?

Killing kittens, punching clowns, drowning nuns. These are nefarious deeds. Not not playing your game for an unreasonable amount of time to obtain vanity items.

[Worira]

Hmm, apparently the hat's a unique halo. In that case, I'll keep mine, never wear it, and viciously mock anyone who does. Then when they're all "CRY SUM MOAR, IDLER", I'll be all "I have a halo, genius."

[Rutskarn]

F'yeah, muthaf**er, I get a hat?!

Soo-wee!

EDIT: @Zero: yes, because Valve has never had a comically exaggerated stance against people using exploits, have they.

[chiasaur11]

F'yeah, muthaf**er, I get a hat?!

Soo-wee!

I have a hat just for being unable to play for the duration of the idling fad?

HUZZAH!

[Player_Zero]

All I ever got from idling was a collection of jarate.

[Myatar_Panwar]

'Moral high ground'?

Wait, how is idling immoral?

Killing kittens, punching clowns, drowning nuns. These are nefarious deeds. Not not playing your game for an unreasonable amount of time to obtain vanity items.

I think it was pretty obvious that Valve didn't want people idling to get special items. In fact I think they have stated on a number of occasions that they were trying to fix that "problem". As in it wasn't intended for people to get items that way.

yeah.

You can think of it as cheating.

[Player_Zero]

I think it was pretty obvious that Valve didn't want people idling to get special items.

Fixed. Because it's true.

Wait, wait.


I think it was pretty obvious that Valve didn't want people idling to get special items. Except for their employees, who get horribly broken completely cheating weapons.

[Worira]

omg stewfu scrub tere's like a .0000000000001 chance a valve employee has ever palyed on samme server as u nub

[TheLogman]

Alright, here's how I think of it. Excuse me if this turns ranty, I'm just kinda jarated off.

You want to disallow 3rd party things in your game, sure. It makes the game safer, makes it fair.

You want to punish people who use the 3rd party programs, even retroactively and without warning? Even after you admitted that they weren't gaining any tangible advantage? Okay fine.

You want to split hairs over two methods of breaking your system, and reward one side and punish the other? Well, okay fine. You did say you didn't want 3rd party programs.

But don't claim that the people who were idling in server are part of a "moral high ground" and make them into "angels". Because they weren't. Don't make this about morals.

You are a company with a terrible communication with their players, and a near inability to make your wishes known, except when you bring the vengeance.

So no, we weren't being immoral, you're being ridiculous.

And the halo looks stupid anyway. Doesn't fit with the rest of the game.

[KBF]

Zero, we had a Valve employee play on d20 servers like a few weeks ago. Were you there?

Because his medigun gun was normal. It said Valve Medigun, but it was a normal medigun.
I assume the OP Valve stuff is for testing effects and fun company matches.



Oh, and suck it (okay, that's pointlessly rude. But I heavily disagree). You can get a hat without idleing or Valve giving you one, it's just not supposed to happen in just a few weeks.
But Valve gave me one. I'll wear it with my medal.

EDIT:


You want to split hairs over two methods of breaking your system, and reward one side and punish the other? Well, okay fine. You did say you didn't want 3rd party programs.

But don't claim that the people who were idling in server are part of a "moral high ground" and make them into "angels". Because they weren't. Don't make this about morals.

You are a company with a terrible communication with their players, and a near inability to make your wishes known, except when you bring the vengeance.

So no, we weren't being immoral, you're being ridiculous.


I don't get any of this. Using the idling program was, in fact, breaking the system by tricking it into thinking you were playing nonstop. While you weren't. It was dishonest, whether or not the system was broken (depends on POV), and it is to some people (myself included) about my morals as a gamer. Explain to me how being dishonest with the idler does not make you less honest than someone who just played the game?

[Myatar_Panwar]

So no, we weren't being immoral, you're being ridiculous.


I think people caring so much about hats are the ridiculous ones.

In general the whole hat thing has pretty much blown up in their face. "Oh hey because items aren't rare enough lets just put in these little hat things. It will be fun. People certainly wont go bat**** insane over these little things. Naahhh"

[Worira]

I, personally, don't give a damn about the hats. What annoys me is Valve's incredibly juvenile response.

[Rutskarn]

Anyone else having some major problems with Steam? I can't really connect to my community page, and none of my games are installed. WTF?

EDIT: Okay, I'm pretty sure this is my fault, but I'm having trouble fixing it. Hm.

[Fawkes]

Dammit. I downloaded the idle program to see what the fuss was about, used it for about an hour, and stopped because I thought it was silly. Now Valve gives everyone else a halo.

At least they (allegedly) increased the hat drop chance.

[Rutskarn]

I, personally, don't give a damn about the hats. What annoys me is Valve's incredibly juvenile response.

Juvenile? Really? Seemed pretty professional to me, frankly, except for the "moral high ground" statement.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Also this looked interesting:
crafting duplicates into desired items

[TheLogman]

KBF, it made them think you were playing non-stop because you were.

The Idler was running TF2 without the graphics or sounds so it was less of a system drain.

It was no different than just running TF2, and then somehow disabling the sounds and graphics, without the hastle.

Also, I would agree in the whole "Cheating" aspect, except that cheating was defined as giving an advantage in game, and idlers had no distinct advantage, other than being able to write lit papers as they got hats.

Which is why I said they were splitting hairs, because they were.

EDIT: Can anyone see my avatar? I can't see it anymore, and when I follow the imagehosting link, I get a 404. I would check my Steam Profile, but I can't access my control panel for some reason.

[Player_Zero]

Juvenile? Really? Seemed pretty professional to me, frankly, except for the "moral high ground" statement.

Professional would've been telling people they didn't want them to use it upon its release.

In fact, professional would've been not using a a system sh***ed out by some crack addict on a buzz from listerine.

[Rutskarn]

KBF, it made them think you were playing non-stop because you were.

The Idler was running TF2 without the graphics or sounds so it was less of a system drain.

It was no different than just running TF2, and then somehow disabling the sounds and graphics, without the hastle.

Also, I would agree in the whole "Cheating" aspect, except that cheating was defined as giving an advantage in game, and idlers had no distinct advantage, other than being able to write lit papers as they got hats.

Which is why I said they were splitting hairs, because they were.

EDIT: Can anyone see my avatar? I can't see it anymore, and when I follow the imagehosting link, I get a 404. I would check my Steam Profile, but I can't access my control panel for some reason.

I don't see it either.

Zero: I'll be the first to say their system is stupid, stupid, stupid, but their statements are hardly juvenile.

[KBF]

You sat in a server with a 1000 man limit, turned off everything that makes up the game, and had it track the fact that you were there. This may surpise you, but that is dishonest.

And I don't have a Halo. No idea why. Oh well.

[TheLogman]

Or, you know, just telling the guy who was openly promoting the program and constantly telling people about it to just stop running the servers.

[Myatar_Panwar]

They shouldn't need to put out a blog post saying that they don't want people to idle.

That should be kind of obvious.

[Fawkes]

By the way, here (http://www.tf2items.com/profiles/76561197960265731)'s the backpack of the guy who wants us to only acquire hats via the normal channels.

[KBF]

By the way, here (http://www.tf2items.com/profiles/76561197960265731)'s the backpack of the guy who wants us to only acquire hats via the normal channels.

Wow. That's juvenile.

valve haz hats thei think thei ar soo mooch better than us
Because a company can't let it's employees test out a new system going into one of their flagship games.

[Rutskarn]

You sat in a server with a 1000 man limit, turned off everything that makes up the game, and had it track the fact that you were there. This may surpise you, but that is dishonest.

And I don't have a Halo. No idea why. Oh well.

He said they'd get them soon.

Also: Come on, Mechafox, he's a frickin' Valve employee. He BRINGS us TF2. He was one of the people responsible for making those hats. That's the most legitimate goddamn means there is.

[Player_Zero]

Wow. That's juvenile.

valve haz hats thei think thei ar soo mooch better than us

Because a company can't let it's employees test out a new system going into one of their flagship games.

I find the hypocrisy quite droll.

[KBF]

Rutskarn, I checked your backpack to see if I didn't have one or we'd get them soon, and you have a level 1 and a level 100 item that seems to be invalid currently. I checked mine, and ditto. I guess the way they add these items is kinda interesting.

Also note: A level 1, and a level 100. Two items. I'm curious.


I find the hypocrisy quite droll.

What hypocrisy? the system takes months, and they want to test it asap. Give a little something for the people who make it possible. If there is any hypocrisy in that, I can't see why it'd matter.

Guess what: GMs in WoW? Level 80, no leveling. And they can ban people they don't like!! hypocrisy

[Fawkes]

I think he was referring to your post, referring to me as juvenile, and then attempting to mock me in the least impressive manner possible.

[chiasaur11]

Huh. Looking at my gear...

Got a level 1 "Cheater's Lament" and a level 100 hat of some sort.

And my Natascha is in the same netherworld as the new items. Odd.

[KBF]

I suppose that is possible. I must say my own intelligence when it comes to these subtleties is quite lacking.

Oh, hats are here. For us awesome people. Did you cheaters get anything?

EDIT:
I like this hat. You do mind if I keep it Jibar? I don't need any other hats, I'll just give those to you.

[Fawkes]

Yes, we're all very proud of you, KBF, now shut up.

I'm gonna go play on a hat mod server.

Edit: On a related note, the hat mod is awesome.

[Dispozition]

I think my lvl100 CheatDetector will be the best item in my backpack :D
Luckily I still have all the unlocks I had before the idler, well, I have more thanks to Sandman and stuff I got in game.

[AlterForm]

EDIT:
I like this hat. You do mind if I keep it Jibar? I don't need any other hats, I'll just give those to you.

Hats sure are nice, aren't they?

[Rutskarn]

Alright, seriously, let's change the subject.

So, Left 4 Dead 2

Bad idea, bad idea.

So, how about that new campaign for Left 4 Dead

Ohhhh bad idea.

Um...

...pickles.

[AlterForm]

pickles

Hate 'em. Next topic!

[chiasaur11]

Hate 'em. Next topic!

Minerva: Metastasis?

It does rule, you know.

[AlterForm]

Minerva: Metastasis

Love it. Next topic! :smalltongue:

[Nano]

Love it. Next topic! :smalltongue:


S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Shadow of Chernobyl. Actually a very interesting and fun game.

[chiasaur11]

S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Shadow of Chernobyl. Actually a very interesting and fun game.

Haven't played it. Looks good.

You finished Minerva yet?

Next topic!

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Oh, hats are here. For us awesome people. Did you cheaters get anything

Rant time.

I just quoted this specific post because it was here, but the sentiment runs throughout this recent discussion.

I go to this forum and interact with this community to avoid the snarky, I'm-better-than-you attitude of the internet as a whole. This thread is beginning to get me down. Yes, Valve may have done something right. Yes, Valve may have done something wrong. Yes, people are undecided. That doesn't mean we need to throw all semblance of our normal good-natured selves out the window and chew at each others' throats.

Me? I idled occasionally, for no other reason than that it was there. I already had the unlocks, and the hats don't really matter to me, but I figured, "what the hell." Didn't get anything from it, nor did I get the Halo. Don't really care. Do I appreciate people rubbing it in my face? No. I have no problem with you being happy with your new found whatsit, but I don't appreciate, and won't look kindly towards, anyone who intentionally chastises me.

It's just not a big deal either way. I don't think the situation was handled well, but is it going to stop me from enjoying the game? Not really. What will stop me from enjoying the game are people making huge deals about small matters in a confrontational way, people criticizing what I see as personal achievements in the game with constant reminders of "the other team was bad" or "I've done much better, newb." These are the directions that it seems this thread has been headed of late, and I can't say I approve.

So what's the deal, playgrounders? Why are we lowering our traditional standards and our traditional goodwill towards each other for something that doesn't make a single iota of difference? I have no explanation, but I do know that you as a group are close to alienating an actual person (me), perhaps several (if others share my ideals on the matter). Is that more or less important than a digital representation of a halo or hat? That's ultimately up to you guys, but I've said my bit. Here's hoping for a return to sensibility and a decent, united community that can eventually relearn what's really important.

-The Djinn

[Nano]

Rant time.

*Snip.*

-The Djinn

Hey... That's not about S.T.A.L.K.E.R., that's not about it at all!

On a more serious note, yeah - this aggressiveness, especially about the hats (which I see as largely inconsequential. Badges, on the other hand...) is beginning to be incredibly off putting. It's the kind of nonsense that I'd expect to see far more on the Steam forums, and it's just not fun.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I'm just interested to see what happened with the system, to be honest.

It seems from the time I logged off to the time I checked my bckpack in the examiner that a bunch of my items BAMF'd away. Huh.

[chiasaur11]

Rant time.

I just quoted this specific post because it was here, but the sentiment runs throughout this recent discussion.

I go to this forum and interact with this community to avoid the snarky, I'm-better-than-you attitude of the internet as a whole. This thread is beginning to get me down. Yes, Valve may have done something right. Yes, Valve may have done something wrong. Yes, people are undecided. That doesn't mean we need to throw all semblance of our normal good-natured selves out the window and chew at each others' throats.

Me? I idled occasionally, for no other reason than that it was there. I already had the unlocks, and the hats don't really matter to me, but I figured, "what the hell." Didn't get anything from it, nor did I get the Halo. Don't really care. Do I appreciate people rubbing it in my face? No. I have no problem with you being happy with your new found whatsit, but I don't appreciate, and won't look kindly towards, anyone who intentionally chastises me.

It's just not a big deal either way. I don't think the situation was handled well, but is it going to stop me from enjoying the game? Not really. What will stop me from enjoying the game are people making huge deals about small matters in a confrontational way, people criticizing what I see as personal achievements in the game with constant reminders of "the other team was bad" or "I've done much better, newb." These are the directions that it seems this thread has been headed of late, and I can't say I approve.

So what's the deal, playgrounders? Why are we lowering our traditional standards and our traditional goodwill towards each other for something that doesn't make a single iota of difference? I have no explanation, but I do know that you as a group are close to alienating an actual person (me), perhaps several (if others share my ideals on the matter). Is that more or less important than a digital representation of a halo or hat? That's ultimately up to you guys, but I've said my bit. Here's hoping for a return to sensibility and a decent, united community that can eventually relearn what's really important.

-The Djinn

Sounds good. I know I got my Halo from sheer luck. Probably would have idled if my compy could've done TF2 in the relevant period.

So... yeah. I admit moral equivilancy. Like Chesterton's Father Brown, I know I am capable of the same crimes others committed. Let us all be humble here.

Yeeha! I have a hat! A hat a hat a hat a hat!

I am no longer poor and Irish!

[Fawkes]

So what's the deal, playgrounders? Why are we lowering our traditional standards and our traditional goodwill towards each other for something that doesn't make a single iota of difference? I have no explanation, but I do know that you as a group are close to alienating an actual person (me), perhaps several (if others share my ideals on the matter). Is that more or less important than a digital representation of a halo or hat? That's ultimately up to you guys, but I've said my bit. Here's hoping for a return to sensibility and a decent, united community that can eventually relearn what's really important.

-The Djinn

Seconded. Second all of it, really, but especially the last paragraph.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I think my lvl100 CheatDetector will be the best item in my backpack :D
Luckily I still have all the unlocks I had before the idler, well, I have more thanks to Sandman and stuff I got in game.

I want a cheat detector to display with pride.
Yus, I idled, no I wouldn't delete the thing.

Solidarity!

[KBF]

Sorry if you my statement hurtfully. to add some context (though not at all redeeming). I was more referring to the medal of shame I'd heard was planned. The irony that may be lost on everyone but me, is how people were saying they would start idleing if it meant they would get that medal. To be followed by this update, where people are complaning they don't like the look of the halo anyway and would not wear it nyeh.



But the snark is going to come from both sides. Please don't act like the anti-idlers are the only ones acting this way. If you were not, then please don't start more with this statement. Thanks.

[chiasaur11]

I want a cheat detector to display with pride.
Yus, I idled, no I wouldn't delete the thing.

Solidarity!

Ooo!

What nifty items did the idlers get? Is it nifty? Is it a portal gun?

I want a portal gun. That'd be keen!

[Nano]

That better be in the Engineer update.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

But the snark is going to come from both sides. Please don't act like the anti-idlers are the only ones acting this way. If you were not, then please don't start more with this statement. Thanks.

Well aware of it. Hence why I didn't single anyone or any side out. As stated, I used your quote since it was the most recent one when I began to type, and, as stated, I don't care if Valve did something right or wrong...I just want the discussion stopped.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Ooo!

What nifty items did the idlers get? Is it nifty? Is it a portal gun?

I want a portal gun. That'd be keen!

I got nada, apparantly.

[chiasaur11]

Sounds good.

And what's wrong with Irishness anyway?

Dr. McNinja is Irish, for pete's sake.

[KBF]

I hate stopping discussion. It's the single most boring thing you can do, to simply rule out a debate altogether.

But I'll stop.

[LurkerInPlayground]

I do agree that Valve could have handled this better. It's a bit silly to punish people for "cheating" to get hats. They're mostly aesthetic things anyway and it's a bit like the RIAA trying to stop people from downloading music. Cheating is inevitable and the idler itself happens to be relatively benign for all that.

I doubt this would've been as much of a problem if they simply implemented trade system earlier.

I do rub in the fact that I have both the Gentle Manne's Medal and the Medic's Prussian Picklehauber but I hope that I'm doing it in a good-natured way. It's the running joke to make hats the center of jealousy.

[Fawkes]

There's nothing wrong with discussion, KBF. Mocking and taunting people who don't agree with you, that's where the problem starts.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Valve stole my hats. *shakes fist* All 3 of them (including the "hatless" sniper i got today). I'm now sad that I am poor and Irish again.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Sounds good.

And what's wrong with Irishness anyway?

Dr. McNinja is Irish, for pete's sake.

I'm quarter Irish, and look how much I suck. Full-blooded Irish have got to be worse.

Disclaimer: No, I'm no racist against the Irish. Gimmie a lass with red hair and green eyes any day.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

On a fairly unrelated note, I don't actually recommend wearing the halo in a serious game if you have it...I just entered a game as a sniper, and I have never gotten so many headshots in so short a time. Even with the Huntsman...it just shows up from across the map, and lets me know exactly where your head is at any given time.

[chiasaur11]

On a fairly unrelated note, I don't actually recommend wearing the halo in a serious game if you have it...I just entered a game as a sniper, and I have never gotten so many headshots in so short a time. Even with the Huntsman...it just shows up from across the map, and lets me know exactly where your head is at any given time.

See?

Everybody wins!

[Fawkes]

Someone on the RoFL server accidentally deleted his halo.

[Worira]

I, too, tire of the hat discussion.

Also, a portal gun as an engineer update would be rockawesome.

[LurkerInPlayground]

A halo?

I suppose I cannot be so lucky that Valve would simply arrange a sorting algorithm to give us hats based on our most played class.

A halo is not a Fancy Fedora.


I, too, tire of the hat discussion.

Also, a portal gun as an engineer update would be rockawesome.
Sneak up on Snipers and trap them into an infinite fall-loop! Hilarity ensues.

Use the portal gun to change the firing corridors of your gun on a whim, effectively giving your sentry infinite range!

Watch as tournament players pull off dizzyingly elaborate maneuvers by exploiting the newfound "portal jump!"

Instantaneously ninja your entire team onto the last point!

[Player_Zero]

I, too, tire of the hat discussion.

Also, a portal gun as an engineer update would be rockawesome.

Do you REALLY trust Valve to balance that kind of weapon?

[Worira]

No. Doesn't keep it from being rockawesome.

[Arbitrarity]

On a fairly unrelated note, I don't actually recommend wearing the halo in a serious game if you have it...I just entered a game as a sniper, and I have never gotten so many headshots in so short a time. Even with the Huntsman...it just shows up from across the map, and lets me know exactly where your head is at any given time.

Is that a benefit? I'm pretty sure the issue when sniping is timing and getting the crosshairs on the head, rather than knowing where it is.

However, I'm not using it on every class, because it looks stupid. Engineer is the biggest offender here :smallannoyed:

[Knaight]

Pretty balanced in Portal. I would say its comparable to the gravity gun. Both of which need to be dropped in a Tribes style game.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Is that a benefit? I'm pretty sure the issue when sniping is timing and getting the crosshairs on the head, rather than knowing where it is.
Yes. People exploit custom skins in order to highlight the heads on models. Which is why custom skins should never be used on a server.

As an unspoken corollary to what you've said, part of timing is anticipating where a person is going to go. Or being able to pick them out from the environment quickly.

Nothing helps with that more than a neon glow back-lighting your head.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I, too, tire of the hat discussion.

Also, a portal gun as an engineer update would be rockawesome.


Portal Gun

Replaces teleporter. Firing the portal gun requires 200 metal per shot. You may go through either side of a portal at will, as well as shoot into one and have your projectiles come out the other. Enemies can shoot through portals, but may not enter (spys are an exception). Only 1 set of portals at a time.

Portals disappear after 2 minutes, or after an engineers death.

Actually, I now kind of want a map featuring a neutral perma-portal gun, which you pick up after killing the last user of it. MAKE IT HAPPEN

[Player_Zero]

1. Fire portal next to sentry.
2. Fire portal next to enemy team.
3. They all get gibbed instantly.
4. Go to 1.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Wow, I look away, and two pages of arguing. :smallannoyed:

And I still don't have the game.


Someone on the RoFL server accidentally deleted his halo.

Yes, Mecha, you said that already.


Someone on the RoFL server accidentally deleted his halo.

[Fawkes]

Sorry, the in-game web browser decided to interpret "refresh" as "repost the last thing I said".

On another note, PL_waste is a fun map. It's a five-point push map, like granary or badlands, but with a cart.

[Rutskarn]

Hey, after an hour of work I managed to de-**** my Steam program folder, which I'd accidentally borked to hell. This was a process involving deleting applications and accidentally scattering essential folders o'er the land.

Okay, now hurdle #2: not deleting my new items as I make room for them in my backpack.

I'm thick and clumsy, so this is harder than it sounds.

Also, this update is coming down the tubes as fast as gravel being sucked down a drinking straw.

[wojonatior]

Disclaimer: No, I'm no racist against the Irish. Gimmie a lass with red hair and green eyes any day.
Seconded!!!

[Rutskarn]

[bloody-minded pedant]Actually, most Irish people are brown-haired and blue-eyed, or so I'm told.[/bloody-minded pedant]

[LurkerInPlayground]

Herein lies the account of Immolax, a renowned fire-saint, reflecting on the nature on his strategy and philosophy in the way of fire.


The universe burns. This any enlightened Pyro understands. Foolish neophytes in the ways of fire battle against the natural order, rather than accommodating themselves to its purpose.

For all life is merely a slow-burning fire. Mountains crumble. And men decay. The True Way of the Heaven is the way of entropy. The stability and immutability of Earth is merely illusion.

Take heed, young grasshopper. The battlefield is where the chaos of Fire reigns supreme. Flesh is not all that will come ablaze. There are emotions, minds, formations and stratagems that can be made to go awry.

Note the noble airblast. Is this not a high and elegant expression of Fire? By it's mastery can you turn the weapons of your enemies upon themselves. The ignorant can be made to suffer for playing with Fire as though it were a mere gewgaw.

The True Pyro is merely the humble servant of the metaphysical Fire. He is not destruction's master, but merely its guide. Comprehend this, and you will set armies of hundreds ablaze.

[RMS Oceanic]

[bloody-minded pedant]Actually, most Irish people are brown-haired and blue-eyed, or so I'm told.[/bloody-minded pedant]

I am, for one.

[chiasaur11]

Herein lies the account of Immolax, a renowned fire-saint, reflected on the nature on his strategy and philosophy in the way of fire.

Translation:

MMMMPH!

MMMPH MMPH MMMMMMMMMMMMMPH!

Mmhph.

[Rutskarn]

Also w+m1 lol im witty.

[KBF]

Also w+m1 lol im witty.

dood have you even done strategy uou never evn herd of backbrunre noob

lol im pro

[Fawkes]

Something occured to me earlier today and I just remembered it.

Was it Wojo that was planning on buying L4D1? I know he didn't want to wait until November for L4D2, buy I'd suggest waiting until they release Crash Course this month*. They may have a special deal that weekend.

*Valve time

[LurkerInPlayground]

Immolax suffered from depression in his late life, owing to a lack of able pupils and potential sucessors.

Immolax committed sepukku, so great was his shame.

His book on strategy and philosophy, the Book of Five Fires is widely read by mercenary construction companies looking for a competitive edge in the market.

[AlterForm]

Warning: Coarse Languagehttp://img297.imageshack.us/img297/714/achievementidle0000.jpg

Spot the irony.

Seriously. :smallamused:

[KBF]

I'm.. I'm pretty sure that same guy (Donny) was whining in the d20 servers. I could be wrong.

Anyway, back to trying to find the irony. WHERE IS IT.

EDIT: Oooohhh. Oh. Oh. Awesome.

[AlterForm]

I'm.. I'm pretty sure that same guy (Donny) was whining in the d20 servers. I could be wrong.

Anyway, back to trying to find the irony. WHERE IS IT.

EDIT: Oooohhh. Oh. Oh. Awesome.

Thought I'd have to hurt you for a moment. :smallbiggrin:

[chiasaur11]

I'm.. I'm pretty sure that same guy (Donny) was whining in the d20 servers. I could be wrong.

Anyway, back to trying to find the irony. WHERE IS IT.


Over there, in the box.

[wojonatior]

If I had one, I would totally do that.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Wherein Alterform reveals that he runs Team Fortress 2 on an N64.

EDIT: Or perhaps more generously, on a Playstation 2.

[BRC]

Over there, in the box.
It's both dead and not dead until somebody opens the box to check.

[Fawkes]

Questions for those of you who have the halo:

What is it called in the loadout?

Does it take up a space in the backpack?

Can it be equipped to multiple classes simultaneously?

[KBF]

Cheaters Lament

Yes

Yes, but unsure. I haven't worn it ingame yet. It does equip multiple times.

[Morrandir]

To try and be civil here, wading through the screaming and whining over at the Steam forums, from what I gather, most people (myself included) are upset not that their precious virtual hats were taken away, but that they are being demonized, and, in fact, have a black mark on their accounts for something they did before an official stance was taken, AND that this is a far more serious a punishment than those who used the achievement unlockers got. (For reference, they lost their items for a week. As far as we know, all idler items are gone forever.) As someone beautifully put it: "This is like beating a donkey for moving when you waved a carrot in its face." Or "This is like having a section of road with no speed limit, then suddenly putting one on and punishing everyone who went faster than that before the sign was posted."

That said, I'll be logging hours as Sniper for a while. If I end up on the servers with you guys, expect me to not care about objectives. I need to relax by having fun.

Still, I'd greatly appreciate it if nobody debated anything with me from the words above this sentence. Djinn's right, and I'm a bit too miffed to be civil if I'm brought into question. Honestly, this is just something I need to get off my chest about the debacle, nothing more.


So, on a lighter note: rumors abound of Valve finally starting to implement the code that gives a use for owning 83 backburners they mentioned back when dinosaurs ruled the earth.

[Myatar_Panwar]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/HealersAgainstHalos

Oh man, haha. Dumbest group I've seen in awhile.

[BRC]

How does one get a Halo?

[Morrandir]

Did you use the idler, BRC? Ever? For any amount of time at all?

If not, you get the shiny round thing that announces where sniper rounds should go.

[BRC]

Did you use the idler, BRC? Ever? For any amount of time at all?

If not, you get the shiny round thing that announces where sniper rounds should go.

Yay, I'll put it next to the gallon of propane I stick on my back for Pyros, the target on my back for spies, and the big sign that says "Don't Heal Me" for medics. I'm nothing if not inconsiderate.

[Rutskarn]

That Healers against Halos thing is so stupid. Even if Valve's behavior was wrong, it doesn't justify what they're doing.

It's like if a parent favors one child, Poory McIrish, over another, Hatter Idle. One day, the parent decides to give Poory a nice sweater and Hatter some thinly-veiled contempt. So now, whenever Poory wears his sweater, Hatter gets angry at him and starts calling him names and pushing him.

Hatter may or may not have a legitimate complaint, but it's sure as hell not against Poory.

[chiasaur11]

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/HealersAgainstHalos

Oh man, haha. Dumbest group I've seen in awhile.

Huh. Was hoping I'd get a reason to wear a hat. Most people who didn't get halos are perfectly decent sorts, so it would feel like being a bragging jerk.

However, now that there are people asking for it...

[Myatar_Panwar]

Nothing wrong with wearing a halo. Sure, some people may be envious, but that is how it is with all hats, no? :smalltongue:

Also a friend pointed out to me how funny it is to see the soldier hammer on his head without a helmet. I have to agree.

[Morrandir]

A lot of people are being really immature about it, HaH! being included. I mean, everyone protesting Valve's harshness has a point, it's just that most are going about it the wrong way.


That Healers against Halos thing is so stupid. Even if Valve's behavior was wrong, it doesn't justify what they're doing.

It's like if a parent favors one child, Poory McIrish, over another, Hatter Idle. One day, the parent decides to give Poory a nice sweater and Hatter some thinly-veiled contempt. So now, whenever Poory wears his sweater, Hatter gets angry at him and starts calling him names and pushing him.

Hatter may or may not have a legitimate complaint, but it's sure as hell not against Poory.

I was going to make some comparison involving Hatter working longer than Poory, then I realized it had the word "work" in it, so it changed to this:

Poory and Hatter do nothing in their spare time, but Hatter does nothing in a productive manner, and now the parent says that the way Hatter was doing nothing was a bad thing and to punish him, all the nothing productives that resulted from his doing nothing are being taken away, and Poory and their estranged cousin who they have met once in their entire lives named Free Weekender are being given a special nothing that Hatter can never ever get no matter how hard he does nothing.

So originally, I wasn't even going to bother posting it, but then it ended up being pretty funny in an abstract way.

[LurkerInPlayground]

A lot of people are being really immature about it, HaH! being included. I mean, everyone protesting Valve's harshness has a point, it's just that most are going about it the wrong way.



I was going to make some comparison involving Hatter working longer than Poory, then I realized it had the word "work" in it, so it changed to this:

Poory and Hatter do nothing in their spare time, but Hatter does nothing in a productive manner, and now the parent says that the way Hatter was doing nothing was a bad thing and to punish him, all the nothing productives that resulted from his doing nothing are being taken away, and Poory and their estranged cousin who they have met once in their entire lives named Free Weekender are being given a special nothing that Hatter can never ever get no matter how hard he does nothing.

So originally, I wasn't even going to bother posting it, but then it ended up being pretty funny in an abstract way.
More than that, nothing Hatter was doing was actually spoiling the fun Poory was having in any meaningful way.

On the other hand, I'll trade away my Halo for a Fancy Fedora. Hell, I'll take some less-desirable hat in exchange. But not before I play Medic and name myself "Jesus Christ, Battle Medic."

[KBF]

Look, I know we can't have a debate about it, and I swear I'll stop posting about it after this. Honest.

It was a third party program manipulating the game in a way that gave an 'advantage' over others.
Stance tends to be pretty clear on this in the game industry. It's a weird circumstance, but still.

[chiasaur11]

Back to Metastasis.

The twist at the end of part three:

Did you see it coming? Made sense, but it also was a fun shock.

And Minerva's attitude shifting regarding you was pleasantly Durandalian.

[Morrandir]

More than that, nothing Hatter was doing was actually spoiling the fun Poory was having in any meaningful way.

You are my favorite person.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Look, I know we can't have a debate about it, and I swear I'll stop posting about it after this. Honest.

It was a third party program manipulating the game in a way that gave an 'advantage' over others.
Stance tends to be pretty clear on this in the game industry. It's a weird circumstance, but still.
Well, the programming ethics that Valve occassionally comes up with seem stupid.

Scripts are technically legit. It's freely accessible to anybody. Which is exactly why people won't automatically try to ban you the moment you write an auto-firing script prior to the pistol patch.

Custom skins are technically legit by the same reasoning. Except the reasoning is retarded for the same reason. I can make invisible spies visible by messing with their cloak skin and highlight people's heads to make them easier to headshot. Now virtually nobody enables custom skins.

Oh hey! Voice chat programs. They're third party programs that give you an advantage over other people too. But anybody who is banning you over that is being a poor sport. And Valve certainly doesn't give a crap about them.

So far:
First Party - 0
Third Party -1

It's an utterly bankrupt line of reasoning. "Fair" comes from the agreed upon rules of the game. By large majority, people want other people to honor a contest of skill. Slightly faster communication doesn't violate the notion of a reasonable contest of skill. It isn't determined by what's "third party" or "first party."

Having hats in your suitcase doesn't interfere with the agreed-upon rules of the metagame. Wearing them might, but that's really none of Valve's business.

Valve may have been clear on their precedents for unlockables, but so what? Ostensibly, they're supposed to be equal to the generic loadout that any newbie gets.

Except they're not. A player with fewer options is less adaptable than a player who has more of them. By and large, the community already decided that how you got the unlocks didn't really matter. It was something everybody was supposed to have to start with.

Valve contradicts itself most grievously here then walls off their unlockable toys by making people jump through busywork hoops to get them.

It's absurd from start to finish.

[Alleine]

IMO, medics who own a halo are required to wear them because thematically, it is awesome. Glowing uber angel of death? Yes please.(also, shiny targets!)
Unfortunately it looks kinda crappy and doesn't go well with some classes, but I was in awe when I got an up close of a soldiers head. I could see his eyes!

Someone mentioned that the hat drop rates are supposed to be increased. Is this confirmed? If so I might be able to forgive Valve's dickery.


Unrelated Edit: I downloaded minerva because someone was going crazy over it, but how the heck to I make it show up on my steam games list? Windows confuses me to no end and it shows a really complex looking icon labeled Minerva.

[Thanatos 51-50]

[bloody-minded pedant]Actually, most Irish people are brown-haired and blue-eyed, or so I'm told.[/bloody-minded pedant]

By citing the streotype, I was being intentionally ironic.
And most red-heads you see likely have some Irish in them, anyway,

[LurkerInPlayground]

By the way, the Penny Arcade Job's XP Server actually has a mod that allows you to equip hats by typing in the "!em" command.

It pulls up a menu that allows you to equip any unlockable or cosmetic item of your choice.

[potatocubed]

Oh man, I wanted a real hat. :smallfrown:

Now all I have is a glowing sign that is a $%&£ing symptom of the original problem - that being attaching any sort of prestige (or 'moral value') to the possession of something completely random.

[chiasaur11]

Unrelated Edit: I downloaded minerva because someone was going crazy over it, but how the heck to I make it show up on my steam games list? Windows confuses me to no end and it shows a really complex looking icon labeled Minerva.

You downloaded and went through the automated install, right?

Well, when you restart steam, assuming you have episode 2, there should be a weird icon with three points on your list and the word Minerva nest to it.

Double click, and bob's your uncle.

[Kyouhen]

Wow, forum was busy while I was at work. So then, I'm obligated to add my 2 cents to the little idler thing.

Technically speaking I think Valve has been pretty fair with how they're treating people who used the idler program. If Valve has decided that idling qualifies as a cheat, their Terms of Service allows them to terminate your account. Without warning. Instead you lose a few items, and unless I misunderstood what happened the only items you lost are the ones you got from idling anyway. So in the end anyone who used the idler is being punished by losing items they didn't have to do anything to get in the first place. You ran the idler in the background while you were at work, or doing homework, or playing something else. Can you honestly say it's that big of a loss?

As for the halos, I'm not quite sure what I think of them. At the very least the people who didn't get one won't be any worse off in a year or two than the people who didn't get medals just because new players who never used the idler will come in and they won't have the halo either. Sure, I got one. And I'll probably wear it at all times. But 80% of that is just because I don't have any other hats, and 0% is because I want to lord it over the people who don't have one. The other 20% is because I want to be a holy pyro descending from the heavens to lay waste to the enemies below. :smallbiggrin:

So yeah, there's my 2 cents. Try not to read too deep into it.

[Alleine]

You downloaded and went through the automated install, right?

Well, when you restart steam, assuming you have episode 2, there should be a weird icon with three points on your list and the word Minerva nest to it.

Double click, and bob's your uncle.

automated install? uhhh...
Interestingly enough, I was playing episode two while waiting for it to download. Pretty sure it didn't install itself while I was playing because there was no prompt to say "yes I want to install this potentially virus ridden piece of software"

[LurkerInPlayground]

Oh man, I wanted a real hat. :smallfrown:

Now all I have is a glowing sign that is a $%&£ing symptom of the original problem - that being attaching any sort of prestige (or 'moral value') to the possession of something completely random.
Exactly my sentiments.

On the other hand, it has some novelty value.

[Jibar]

Wow. Great way to start the day, with a great big mixture of

:annoyed:
:frown:
and
:furious:

I could have so much more to say but ya know what? Boop it. Valve wants to keep making aesthetics more important than mechanics, fine. I'll just stay moody.



EDIT:
I like this hat. You do mind if I keep it Jibar? I don't need any other hats, I'll just give those to you.

Yeah, keep it. Halo is classed with the Heavy's football helmet. Cool in theory, in practice looks goofy.

Edit: Having checked, wow. Yeah. I lost nothing because I sat through the stupid random distribution system and got all my items that way, in game. Everything I earned with the idler was a duplicate that I deleted anyway. So in the end I still don't have a chance of earning a hat and still have all the items.
Including my 6 Sandvichs.

[Dread Cthulhu]

Here's a touching story. I found out about this from checking the backpack website to see if I'd found anything yesterday and not been told. Upon seeing it, I'd figured that the Lament would be a Misc item and they'd given everyone a random hat. THAT would have been pretty nice.

That said, I agree with everything Kyouhen said about it. Especially considering that I was, previously, poor and Irish.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I could have so much more to say but ya know what? Boop it. Valve wants to keep making aesthetics more important than mechanics, fine.

I would argue that the players are making aesthetics more important here, and Valve is just trying to deal with the situation in a pleasant manner, and failing.

I mean, I don't think that they planned for hats to be so big. Its basically all anyone talks about anymore.

[Jibar]

I would argue that the players are making aesthetics more important here, and Valve is just trying to deal with the situation in a pleasant manner, and failing.

I mean, I don't think that they planned for hats to be so big. Its basically all anyone talks about anymore.

Because weapons are commonplace and have multiple methods of gaining them, while hats are a force of nature that cannot be predicted, something rare that you're lucky to see. Of course people are going to be excited if they just so happen to find a hat, and so of course hats are going to become something valuable. It's the same thing as finding gold in the good ol' days, you can't 100% predict it, nothing you can do to accurately get it, and as such it becomes very high value.
Had hats been released as alternate options straight away, instead of backpack items like weapons, they would be seen as nothing more than aesthetics to allow further customisation to how you play the game but with the current set up it's like finding freaking diamonds in your shoes which you proceed to flounce in the faces of everyone you know.
It's hard to argue as well that Valve didn't cause this when they themselves made a series of articles and images extolling the virtues of hattery and mocking the hatless with the last update. They assigned a value to them, accidentally increased this value via their distribution method, and then the player base naturally responded by increasing this value further through its own interactions with itself.

I'm not mad about them shutting down the idler. I didn't like it, I thought it was cheating the system, just like a lot of other people. I'm mad that this ever came about. That nobody considered the ramifications of all this when designing the random distribution system. People were angry you couldn't unlock the Sniper and Spy stuff through achievements, didn't Valve clue in that that meant the drop system just wasn't working and likely wouldn't, in general? Not just for Spy/Sniper stuff? For new players, it's great, I earned most my items through it. For experienced players its a furious nightmare, when they could get achievements and unlock those hats just as they did way back before the drop system came to be.
It's terrible, terrible design that is completely out of place in the otherwise brilliant set up that is Team Fortress 2.

Though, something that irks me without being as infuriating as this whole set up is the blog post. Team Fortress 2 has a big player base, and if only 4.5% used the idler, a tiny, tiny percentage, why does everyone else get rewarded? Most of that player base would've never even known the idler existed. A lot probably don't even check the blog and just got themselves a free hat without any clue about what is going on.


I'm actually going to player Team Fortress 2 now to cheer myself up, because I've been Internet Angry for too long now.

[shadow_archmagi]

Well done valve.

Thanks for implementing a bad system, declaring any attempt to circumvent that system "cheating," and then deciding to punish it by undoing my gains and then telling EVERYONE ELSE how great they are.

:-/

I suppose I can stand that. I didn't get any hats or anything, and the new "moral halo" looks pretty stupid anyway. Since everyone has one, it isn't exactly special.

But what I must ask is

"To amuse myself while idling, I started collecting ubersaws, razorbacks, and dead ringers. I deleted any other items I had duplicates of to make room. Your recent "cleansing" appears to have left my dead-uber-back largely untouched (perhaps one from each pile) and deleted my flare gun, kritzkrieg, and bonk Atomic Punch, all of which I only had one of and all of which I had earned the milestones for.

Why is your deletion policy the exact opposite of what you said it would be?"

[Fawkes]

The RoFL server's hat mod is really nice. By typing in !equip in chat (or just equip in the console) you can equip any of your class's hats (plus a hatless option for the soldier).

IP Addresses:
66.55.155.177
66.55.159.11

[wojonatior]

It's like if a parent favors one child, Poory McIrish, over another, Hatter Idle.
Don't forget about Poory Idle McIrish.


Look, I know we can't have a debate about it, and I swear I'll stop posting about it after this. Honest.

It was a third party program manipulating the game in a way that gave an 'advantage' over others.
Stance tends to be pretty clear on this in the game industry. It's a weird circumstance, but still.

I don't see how it was an advantage It was essentially running TF2 in an idle server all night, but in a simplified interface, and in a way that required very little processing power.


Including my 6 Sandvichs.

Well do you have a LEVEL 0 KGB?!?!
On that note, I wonder if they are going to implement the minor changes that items get from levels.

And on the FINAL NOTE ABOUT ANYTHING RELATING TO THE IDLER(hence no more talking about the idler or valve's position.) I ended up getting in the same position as jibar, I got no items out of the entire deal, still poor, and still irish. And they should have have given us a warning, and then punished the people who continue to do it. But the worst part is Valve basically said, "Have you done anything bad in the last week? No? Here! Have a hundred dollars!" Valve has been doing some really stupid things recently, and I am almost at the point of taking my thoughts on them being the "Best, and most innovative developer EVER!"

[shadow_archmagi]

If Valve has decided that idling qualifies as a cheat, their Terms of Service allows them to terminate your account. Without warning.

Aside from one email to a fan on the subject of a non-random system, which I'll quote to the best of my memory



while technically idling does qualify as "cheating" they aren't actually able to earn hats at a higher per-hour rate (quotation marks were in original)


I do not recall ever seeing or hearing of any valve statement to the effect of "We dislike idling."

Also? "We are working on alternative solutions etc etc"

Working on? Come on. Toady One coded an entire physics system into his game's combat so that things like the force of the sword measured vs the density of the material divided by the amount of area etc etc would result in a realistic amount of damage from any given hit and he's FINISHED that in LESS TIME than it took YOU to solve this thing! You, valve, were the ones who decided to attach an enormous amount of prestige to hats. You made a whole update about them! What is taking so long? Is it so hard to code a simple "pick an item and after X number of hours you get it" system?

PS: Why were those of us using Drunken Fool's idler punished? What's so wrong with EXTERNAL apps? Why is it that you hate the eleven thousand of us who prefer not to tax our graphics cards for hats, whereas MEANWHILE...



http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4349/idleserveriroic.png

[wojonatior]

Yes, Valve has been EXTREMELY slow about solving any problems. They still Have a decent amount of people working on TF2 (I assume), And they are doing things at a snail's pace.

[shadow_archmagi]

PS:

I want my flare gun back, Valve. My kritzkrieg back would also be nice, and Bonk you can keep, but I want my flare gun.

I did achievements for those things.

I want my flare gun.

[wojonatior]

Well if valve would implement trading already I could trade you one of my duplicates.

[chiasaur11]

automated install? uhhh...
Interestingly enough, I was playing episode two while waiting for it to download. Pretty sure it didn't install itself while I was playing because there was no prompt to say "yes I want to install this potentially virus ridden piece of software"

Right, right.

Sorry. What you do is, you go to your downloads, you open the folder for Minerva Metastasis, and you read the little read me bit. Should explain things.

[Phase]

I'm kinda wishing that hats hadn't been introduced at all. I don't care, having a hat doesn't really change anything, but seeing all these other people angry makes me think "What happened to the good old days when we all looked the same and likewise burned the same. Complain about my setting you aflame, not your gorramn hats!!!!"

[Rutskarn]

By citing the streotype, I was being intentionally ironic.

Ah. Apologies.

To those responding to my Poory McIrish comparison: guys, geez, I'm just using it to show that the behavior of the Healers against Halos is absurd and childish. That's all.

[potatocubed]

Well if valve would implement trading already I could trade you one of my duplicates.

Hell yes. I'm not sure if 'trading' is even going to be possible, given how many duplicates of everything are already in existence and how easy it is to get anything besides hats, but it would be nice to be able to give away my duplicate items so someone could use them.

[Joran]

Well if valve would implement trading already I could trade you one of my duplicates.

I have about 3-4 deadbeat friends that will probably split my entire backpack once item trading is implemented.

I'm making darned sure I'm keeping the medic ones, because those seem like the ones that are most used, but I'm having trouble deciding what else to keep on the off-chance someone wants it.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Hell yes. I'm not sure if 'trading' is even going to be possible, given how many duplicates of everything are already in existence and how easy it is to get anything besides hats, but it would be nice to be able to give away my duplicate items so someone could use them.
Again, I have a Gentle Manne's Service Medal and a Halo I need to unload.

Also, a Medic's Prussian Picklehauber, which I'd generally like to keep, except that I still am Fedora-less.

Maybe I can get greedy and get two hats for the Medal.

[shadow_archmagi]

My ubersaw/razorback/dead ringer stockpiles will be open to any and all, as always.

[Rutskarn]

Yeah, I'd trade that halo for a hat I actually liked any day of the week. We should set up a forum halo exchange.

[Kyouhen]

Personally I think the biggest problem isn't Valve's choice of how to handle problems, but the order with which they're doing it. Biggest example is easy the random item system. It makes it so that when there's a new class update people don't flood the servers with that class, and it makes it so anyone can get the unlocks for it. The only problem was when they decided to implement that everyone already had all the other items and there were only 2 classes that couldn't simply earn them. If they had done it from the start or took away the ability for other classes to earn items from achievements it might not have been such a big problem.

Maybe what they should do is leave the random item system, but make the hats the rewards for achievements instead. You want something prestigious? What better way to announce you've gotten all the achievements for a class than with a hat? Maybe even make it so you get 1 hat of your choice for the class for getting all the achievements then leave the others to be gotten via random item.

[Alleine]

Right, right.

Sorry. What you do is, you go to your downloads, you open the folder for Minerva Metastasis, and you read the little read me bit. Should explain things.

Thanks :D


I wonder, can valve really even do anything about the people who idle on TF2 without a 3rd party system? They've made darn sure that we know using 3rd party stuff is a no-no, but are they ever going to be able to stop normal idlers?

[Kyouhen]

Thanks :D


I wonder, can valve really even do anything about the people who idle on TF2 without a 3rd party system? They've made darn sure that we know using 3rd party stuff is a no-no, but are they ever going to be able to stop normal idlers?

Nope, too hard to track if they're idling or if they've been on the phone for half an hour. And if you can do it without a 3rd party program then it becomes Valve's fault, not yours.

[The Linker]

Wow! Imagine my surprise when I come back from a single day away at a cottage and find five pages to read. :smalleek:

My only comment is that I was much more excited about getting the hat before I learned that it was automatically going to be a halo and I'd look like I was flaunting my idling abstinence to the whole team, enemy and friendly. Ah, well.

[Dogmantra]

The halo isn't even very nice. I'll not be wearing it at all.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I've seen some derogatory replacement models for it. I'm tempted to get one because i'm bitter like that.

[KBF]

The halo isn't even very nice. I'll not be wearing it at all.

Is.. Is that supposed to be ironic, or..? :smalltongue:

[Dogmantra]

Is.. Is that supposed to be ironic, or..? :smalltongue:

Dead serious.
Ironic that a supposed "reward" actually looks horrific (and everyone who has one, wears them). I'd rather they just let us pick any one item or the halo. I'd have chosen the Ubersaw.

[Rutskarn]

Dead serious.
Ironic that a supposed "reward" actually looks horrific (and everyone who has one, wears them). I'd rather they just let us pick any one item or the halo. I'd have chosen the Ubersaw.

Jeez, wish I could hook you up. Last I checked I've got tons.

[shadow_archmagi]

Dead serious.
Ironic that a supposed "reward" actually looks horrific (and everyone who has one, wears them). I'd rather they just let us pick any one item or the halo. I'd have chosen the Ubersaw.


Agreed.

But only because I need more for my collection.

[The Linker]

Admittedly, if the choice was between the halo and any other item, even another hat... I might still take the halo. Just because of the knowledge that I would never get another chance to get the halo, ever.

However, I might have also taken the Fire Brigade Helmet. That's number one on my mental graph cross-examining "Hats that look cool and stylish," and "Hats for my most-played classes." :smallbiggrin:

[Dogmantra]

Jeez, wish I could hook you up. Last I checked I've got tons.

At least you have tons of something that anyone decent at the class actually wants. The RNG decided to bless me with tons of... Razorbacks... I DO NOT EVEN WANT ONE!

[wojonatior]

Yea I only use mine if I am JUST sniping, and even then only occasionally.

[Worira]

So, it appears that the hat shenanigans have not, in fact, caused TF2 to be RUINED FOREVER for me, and that you guys are still, in fact, awesome. Good job.

[Jahkaivah]

Working on? Come on. Toady One coded an entire physics system into his game's combat so that things like the force of the sword measured vs the density of the material divided by the amount of area etc etc would result in a realistic amount of damage from any given hit and he's FINISHED that in LESS TIME than it took YOU to solve this thing! You, valve, were the ones who decided to attach an enormous amount of prestige to hats. You made a whole update about them! What is taking so long? Is it so hard to code a simple "pick an item and after X number of hours you get it" system?


Mind you fixing problems can be harder than implementing new features.


Yes, Valve has been EXTREMELY slow about solving any problems. They still Have a decent amount of people working on TF2 (I assume), And they are doing things at a snail's pace.

Valve are currently working on Left 4 Dead 2 at the moment. When the first Left 4 Dead was coming out Valve actually skipped a couple of TF2 updates so they could focus on it. And there appears to be a lot more to Left 4 Dead 2 which requires their attention.

There is also of course the question of whether they are taking forever to solve a problem and if they think it's a problem in the first place. Though I defiantly agree that item trading should have came with the random item drop system.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

At least you have tons of something that anyone decent at the class actually wants. The RNG decided to bless me with tons of... Razorbacks... I DO NOT EVEN WANT ONE!

For me it is the Axtiguisher. I swear if I see one more of those Axtiguishers...

[Rutskarn]

For me it is the Axtiguisher. I swear if I see one more of those Axtiguishers...

Again, though, those are actually useful.

[Dogmantra]

Hence I don't have one... In fact, I think I got all the unlocks for classes I actually play via achievements.

[wojonatior]

How many people here will be buying L4D2 when it comes out? Because I might just wait until That comes out instead of buying the first one. Heck maybe I will be lucky and get them in a bundle together for pretty cheap.

[NeoVid]

I got a hat, thanks to only being able to play at a cybercafe.

And I deserved it.

Yeah.

Anyway, I really think the Valve Games threads should be numbered from now on, to show everyone else how insanely obsessed dedicated we are. This is what, the 4th or 5th thread?

[Arbitrarity]

This is #3. First was... I don't recall. I named the second one, and this is its successor.

[Faulty]

How many people here will be buying L4D2 when it comes out? Because I might just wait until That comes out instead of buying the first one. Heck maybe I will be lucky and get them in a bundle together for pretty cheap.

I'm buying L4D2 as soon as I possibly, physically can.

[Fawkes]

So I was looking at the hat skins on FPSbanana... and look what I found (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/71774). Added 12 days ago.

Now (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/71421) Valve (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/71778) just (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/67216) needs (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/66908) to (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/68698) add (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/69768) these (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/71679).

Also, I will be all over L4D2.

[Phase]

So I was looking at the hat skins on FPSbanana... and look what I found (http://www.fpsbanana.com/skins/71774).

Valve's is better.

[AlterForm]

Though, something that irks me without being as infuriating as this whole set up is the blog post. Team Fortress 2 has a big player base, and if only 4.5% used the idler, a tiny, tiny percentage, why does everyone else get rewarded? Most of that player base would've never even known the idler existed. A lot probably don't even check the blog and just got themselves a free hat without any clue about what is going on.

Because Valve can't math. That 4.5% supposedly includes all TF2 accounts ever, including Free Weekenders and inactive accounts.

The real number is closer to 30-40% (~12k idlers, ~30k active players); Valve just didn't want to villify themselves more than they had to. I can't blame them for it, seeing as statistics are very fun things to play with.

[AlterForm]

This is #3. First was... I don't recall. I named the second one, and this is its successor.

Was it "Open the release [Valve], let out the [Steam]" ?

[Fawkes]

Valve's is better.

No, that would be YOUR MOTHER.

Anyway, click on the word "these". I want that hat.

[Jibar]

That I can accept more as a reason for reward. When almost half your player base is using this thing, reward the rest is reasonable.

Alright, mistake 1 fixed Valve.
6 or 7 more to go.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Though, something that irks me without being as infuriating as this whole set up is the blog post. Team Fortress 2 has a big player base, and if only 4.5% used the idler, a tiny, tiny percentage, why does everyone else get rewarded?

4.5% is a bull**** number. I'm more than certain this percentage was taken from total people who own the game, even if it was just a byproduct of them wanting portal and it coming with the Orange Box or whatever. Or old players who arn't even a part of the active community anymore. I've read somewhere that at a few points, the number of people using the idling program exceeded the number of people actually playing the game at the time.

edit: beated by a mile. thats what I get for not reading...

[Bryn]

The first Valve/Steam thread was, IIRC, called the Orange Box thread. However, it seems that it has been lost in the Great Purge.
Alas! poor thread. I knew it, Horatio; a thread of infinite beta, of most excellent Portal references etc.

Subsequently we have...
Open the release [Valve], let out the [Steam] (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97854)
Valve: Weaponized Urine and other strangeness (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112339)
Team Fortress 2 and you. (and by "You" we mean any other game on Steam). (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118059)
How about that Valve and/or Steam, eh? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121135) (which you're reading RIGHT NOW!)

[shadow_archmagi]

(which you're reading RIGHT NOW!)

QUIT SPYING ON ME GET OUT OF MY HEAD

[Myatar_Panwar]

Your urine thread also leads to the first one.

Otherwise, whoever makes the next OP definitely needs to include that list in there.

[Bryn]

Your urine thread also leads to the first one.

Oops, good catch. Corrected!


QUIT SPYING ON ME GET OUT OF MY HEAD

If you insist.This could be useful next time we play Civ.

[Phase]

Also, we should include this:

http://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/208.167.245.178:27015/b_560x95.png (http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/208.167.245.178:27015/)

And this:

http://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/66.55.158.200:27015/b_560x95.png (http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/66.55.158.200:27015/)

On the first page of the new thread.

[chiasaur11]

This is #3. First was... I don't recall. I named the second one, and this is its successor.

It's gotta be five, at least. I did three of these in a row, counting this one, and since you did one after someone else did one, that's two more.

[RMS Oceanic]

Taken shamelessly from the Penny Arcade TF2 thread:


Hrm.
Gloves (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6244/havyglovw3.jpg)
Wrench (http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3056/pdqr.jpg)

[Myatar_Panwar]

Yeah I saw that too. Would totally use that wrench.

[Scorpionica]

Such items came about from competitive play (beta at least), along with rumours of a fire proof (or fire retardant, which can be seen on some of the Valve weapons) Spy suit. As with the Scout's Sandman improvement (double jump, 30 less HP), these might slowly trickle into regular, or public play. Maybe in the next classless update?

[Rutskarn]

I volunteer to start the next thread if nobody else claims it.

[Nano]

Go for it.

And hey! It's Scorpionica! I know that guy! Heeey!

[Jahkaivah]

I got a hat, thanks to only being able to play at a cybercafe.

And I deserved it.

Yeah.

Anyway, I really think the Valve Games threads should be numbered from now on, to show everyone else how insanely obsessed dedicated we are. This is what, the 4th or 5th thread?

Doesn't quite hold a candle to our Dominic Deegan snark threads :smallamused:

For now....


How many people here will be buying L4D2 when it comes out? Because I might just wait until That comes out instead of buying the first one. Heck maybe I will be lucky and get them in a bundle together for pretty cheap.

Given that the L4D maps should be very easy to port over to L4D2 (and will probably be rubbish in comparison), most you will probably miss is Bill, Zoey, Louis and Francis and a year's worth of "OH **** TANK!!!!!"

[Worira]

Oh, and since I didn't respond to Rutskarn earlier: Yes, the "moral high ground" and the halo are what bothered me, not the deletion of items. And, to a lesser extent, the 4.5.

[TheLogman]

I really hope the next update isn't also a classless one. Classless update means less new content to play with or play for.

It also doesn't change the game in any way.

I'm hoping for Demoman or Soldier next. Probably Demoman.

[wojonatior]

I wouldn't mind starting the next thread but rutskarn beat me to the punch.:smallmad:

[Rutskarn]

Am I the only one who thought the wrench was a touch useless-looking? Even combat engineers usually bulk up their sentries/teleporters at least once.

And if you've got two engies working in tandem, the +50% bonus hardly seems worthwhile.

[Worira]

150%. 2.5 times as fast.

[Arbitrarity]

Never mind then, we're at 5, I think...

I named the [Valve] [Steam] pun, there was one before it (The orange box thread), then Weaponized urine (I missed most of that thread, and the transition, which is why I miscounted), and TF2 and You, followed by this thread.

[Rutskarn]

150%. 2.5 times as fast.

Oh, yeah, right, of course, I'm an idiot, etc. Even so, though.

[Scorpionica]

... And hey! It's Scorpionica! I know that guy! Heeey!

Hullo!


Am I the only one who thought the wrench was a touch useless-looking? Even combat engineers usually bulk up their sentries/teleporters at least once.

And if you've got two engies working in tandem, the +50% bonus hardly seems worthwhile.

I think it's mainly to promote Engineer for competitive play, where teams are usually 1 Medic, 2 Soldiers and 2 Scouts. But if the P.D.Q. can be used alongside a normal Engineer's wrench (that could upgrade level 1 buildings), building times should be near to instant.

[Fawkes]

Oh, and since I didn't respond to Rutskarn earlier: Yes, the "moral high ground" and the halo are what bothered me, not the deletion of items. And, to a lesser extent, the 4.5.

Ditto. I don't think I would have been bothered as much if they just gave everyone else a random hat, but the fact that they're openly insulting everyone who ever idled is pretty obnoxious.


I'm hoping for Demoman or Soldier next. Probably Demoman.

I think they've stated that Soldier is next, but I can't provide a source.

[wojonatior]

To continue on my previous message, CURSE YOU RUTSKARN!!!

[Phase]

Hey, it's Scorp! What are you doing round these here parts?

[Nano]

I think they've stated that Soldier is next, but I can't provide a source.

They've given far, far too many hints for it to actually BE the soldier next. Bastards.


Hey, it's Scorp! What are you doing round these here parts?

Decided to hang out with the cool kids, finally.

[Rutskarn]

It's not even that much of an insult, though. There's a jokish reference to the "moral high ground", but that's about it. I guess you could take the giving of halos to non-idling players as an implied insult, but that's kind of reaching--it's really more just recognizing them as being particularly honest*.

*Okay, come on. There was a clear implication that "gameplay" was supposed to entail actually, you know, playing the game. You can nitpick and decontextualize the situation until idling is justified, but can't insist that it's 100% on-the-level. It's not nearly on the same level as hacking or using 'sploits, it's a response to a stupid system, and it's not hurting anyone, but it's not 100% honest. Don't think of halos as signifying "Good" players, think of it as signifying truly Lawful** players.

**And no, Lawful Evil doesn't really mean "obey a code, kind of, but only as a smokescreen to get what you want." It means obey a friggin' code, just not a terribly moral one.

[Scorpionica]

Hey, it's Scorp! What are you doing round these here parts?


... Decided to hang out with the cool kids, finally.

Have been lurking for quite some time on the various boards, and after depriving everyone here of my wit felt it was time to join in on the fun and camaraderie. Maybe even join in for more Left 4 Dead, if the other players can tolerate a silent cohort.

[Jahkaivah]

Oh, yeah, right, of course. Even so, though.

It's possible to string together a fair few kills with a tier 1 sentry if it catches disracted players by surprise, 150% faster should be near instant which means pulling it off will have a nuch higher success rate.

[Rutskarn]

It's possible to string together a fair few kills with a tier 1 sentry if it catches disracted players by surprise, 150% faster should be near instant which means pulling it off will have a nuch higher success rate.

Well...yeah, if you get lucky you can get a couple, but a Level 2 will get you much further. Obviously setting up is always a problem, but you're about as likely to just get punked by a random soldier/demo/pyro/ANYTHING with your Level 1 as you are to be taken out while setting up shop as a regular engineer.

Plus, often players will figure out there's a sentry shooting them and take cover, heal up, then take it down. Which is harassment, which can be useful, but it's not quite your ultimate goal of murder.

[shadow_archmagi]

I volunteer to start the next thread if nobody else claims it.


Well, OK then.

I CLAIM IT!

Now what's all this talk about engineer's wrench?

[Rutskarn]

Well, OK then.

I CLAIM IT!

Now what's all this talk about engineer's wrench?

What I really meant, of course, was "If nobody else already has claimed it, cos I'm too lazy to check, and besides it's more polite this way, like with the last breadroll or the first go at a swingset or something."

[shadow_archmagi]

*Okay, come on. There was a clear implication that "gameplay" was supposed to entail actually, you know, playing the game.

Except that Valve has only punished the third-party idlers; the ones who made their own servers and ran TF2 got off scott free.

While the "moral high ground" thing could've been taken as a joke, given the enormous meme-powered prestige of hats, it was never going to. Valve made pages and pages of well-designed, quite humorous pages with the underlying message that hats are srs business.

But the important thing isn't even the whole idler issue; it's the fact that valve acted so late and with so little warning and so ineffectively. Idlers had already been doing their thing for months upon months without any sign of repercussions from Valve.




What I really meant, of course, was "If nobody else already has claimed it, cos I'm too lazy to check, and besides it's more polite this way, like with the last breadroll or the first go at a swingset or something."

Too late! Your grammar has failed you! I have nicked the rights.

[Rutskarn]

But the important thing isn't even the whole idler issue; it's the fact that valve acted so late and with so little warning and so ineffectively. Idlers had already been doing their thing for months upon months without any sign of repercussions from Valve.

I'd imagine that they were unsure how to respond. Of course it's inexcusable that they took so late to take a stand, but it is at least understandable.

Also, as to ineffective--I'm sure the vast majority of idlers were using third-party programs, as opposed to the more time-consuming and awkward business of creating a personal server and running TF2 at all times.

@Shadow_Archmagi: No, I think not. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26)

[shadow_archmagi]

Also, as to ineffective--I'm sure the vast majority of idlers were using third-party programs, as opposed to the more time-consuming and awkward business of creating a personal server and running TF2 at all times.


Well, naturally. But now that that isn't an option, they will (and already I see them popping up) start going back to good old Achieve_idle servers.


@Thread: Damn you!

[KBF]

Even then, you are changing the argument. The real issue they had probably wasn't idling. No matter how stupid they were, someone at that meeting had to predict standing still in a special server. Even if they didn't, retroactively when exactly that happened, they had to kinda understand. Maybe.

But I get the impression the abuse here was using a third party program to falsify information. Some fun quotes!


My opinion on the whole idle thing is: When people logged for countless hours trying to get their hats this wasn't my problem, and now that they lost it, it's still not my problem.


First, valve doesn't give a crap about idling wile in the game, what they do give a crap about using a 3rd party app to emulate their software's communications and spoof the system. mind you the item system is so flawed. it doesn't give you the right to CHEAT the system with a 3rd party app.

That's all the quotes I have. I'm horrible at this "quotes that support my opinion" thing. I mean, they're from one website! And I don't even entirely agree with these! Oh well...

[Illiterate Scribe]

Delicious, delicious, internet drama.

[wojonatior]

What other kind is there Scribe?

[LurkerInPlayground]

It's not even that much of an insult, though. There's a jokish reference to the "moral high ground", but that's about it. I guess you could take the giving of halos to non-idling players as an implied insult, but that's kind of reaching--it's really more just recognizing them as being particularly honest*.

*Okay, come on. There was a clear implication that "gameplay" was supposed to entail actually, you know, playing the game. You can nitpick and decontextualize the situation until idling is justified, but can't insist that it's 100% on-the-level. It's not nearly on the same level as hacking or using 'sploits, it's a response to a stupid system, and it's not hurting anyone, but it's not 100% honest. Don't think of halos as signifying "Good" players, think of it as signifying truly Lawful** players.

**And no, Lawful Evil doesn't really mean "obey a code, kind of, but only as a smokescreen to get what you want." It means obey a friggin' code, just not a terribly moral one.
It disturbs me that Rutskarn has to dumb down his ethics to the D&D alignment axis.

At any rate, you mean to say that Valve rewarded the player base's perceived honesty. As pointed out, their punishment doesn't fall on the shoulders of anybody using idle servers and the vast majority really haven't been given sufficient room or temptation. I'd guess more players would cheat the system if they actually cared about the game on the level that we do.

So I kind of side-glance at the Halo with suspicion. It's a silly gesture for the most part.

[KBF]

It disturbs me that Rutskarn has to dumb down his ethics to the D&D alignment axis.

Don't throw out his argument because of that. Please don't. It still works quite aptly.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Don't throw out his argument because of that. Please don't. It still works quite aptly.
I'm not. But I'm used to Rutskarn being much more eloquent than that.

[Rutskarn]

I'm not. But I'm used to Rutskarn being much more eloquent than that.

Oh, gimme a break. I hate alignments, but it was a useful analogy that all present would have a good grounding in.

Also, I'd rather spend as little time as possible arguing this whole thing.

[Dispozition]

New thread time!

[wojonatior]

Can I get a link?

[The Linker]

It's, uh, it's near the top of the Gaming forum section... shouldn't be too hard to find... :smalltongue:

[Bryn]

But just in case (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123753), there it is.

I guess I/someone else needs to make a 3D banner like the one in the Dominic Deegan threads at some point :smallwink: