LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles!

[noparlpf]

[QUOTE=SiuiS;14846881But by dividing them into weight class, you solve this.[/QUOTE]

Usually...unless you're like me, I'm really heavy for my size. I haven't been able to go at all this semester due to timing, but I started taekwondo last semester. I look up weight classes after they paired me with two guys thirty and fifty pounds lighter (around fourteen and twenty-three kilos) during sparring (they were the next biggest guys in the beginner group). Turns out that I'm naturally in the top weight class, even with my out-of-shape muscle mass. Which means if I managed to get back into it and ended up competing eventually, I could end up going against guys my size, or 6'8" 300-pound giants.
Basically I just think they could use a few more weight classes added on top, 82kg isn't that big, plenty of people will be more than that.

[Worira]

no, that one would get weaker if on hormone replacement therapy.
And while men have an advantage, a man and woman of equal proportions and muscle mass are equal in strength. Literally, the force transmitted, and levers involved, are the same. People assume that an Olympic class female bodybuilder will be weaker than a, say, male desk jockey who plays Wii sports for exercise every weekend. That's just not true.

The thing is, while a female Olympic weightlifter (not bodybuilder, they're two different things) is going to be stronger than a male office worker (and I don't know anyone who'd actually argue otherwise), she's not going to be as strong as a male Olympic weightlifter, even in the same weight class.

Hmmm, thank you Worira.

So the next question would be - how large is this difference? Trying to pit two people of exactly identical strength against each other is unlikely to work as there is always some difference that comes into play. For example, two non-trans women decide to fight. Is it not unreasonable to assume that one will be stronger than the other, either through training or being naturally stronger? If that's the case then argument about whether Miss Fox should be allowed to compete in women's MMA instantly becomes irrelevant. If she's significantly stronger, then it's just a matter of moving her into a different weight or strength category with non trans women that are on an equal footing with her.

Were Fox not in the process of undergoing HRT, the difference would be pretty significant, probably in the range of 20-40%. As it is, the difference could be essentially entirely done away with, but it's vital that the organizations involved are kept in the loop.

Also, as a side note, MMA doesn't have strength classes, only weight.

The study under "of" specifically says that in people where muscle mass was similar/identical, the gender disparity evaporates.

"Evaporates" is an extremely imprecise term. The wording used in the paper is "When strength was expressed per kilogram of MM, these gender differences were smaller and/or not present." No exact figures are given (in the abstract, and I don't have access to the full text), but keep in mind we're talking a smaller difference than the absolute, which has the men literally twice as strong as the women. That's a very large margin to have reduced but still significant differences.

The problem with athletes is they are usually top-end, so the cream of te crop will have much more obvious differences. But by dividing them into weight class, you solve this. A female in a certain set of parameters sits in the same bracket as a male – in those parameters. If you've got 30kg muscle mass, you're going to be on even footing with someone else who has 30kg muscle mass, if you remove size.

Being in a specific weight class means Fox is competing against women with the same current hormone level and same muscle mass capacity as herself.

As mentioned above, this isn't actually necessarily the case. It may be, depending on Fox's medical history, but it can't be assumed to be simply by weight class.

If it's okay for the Olympics, it should be okay for these guys as well. Just out of curiousity, have there been any medal winning trans athletes?

No, and in fact there haven't been any (openly) trans athletes that have made it into the Olympics proper, and only two that have attempted to qualify, that I know of. One, Keelin Godsey, didn't actually interact with the rules regarding trans athletes, as he competed as a female and hadn't medically transitioned.

[Lix Lorn]

Ounce of prevention, not pound of cure. You talk to people for catharsis all the time. a therapist is what people go for when self-medicating isn't enough.

I spend at least as much time feeling ****ty and broken as I do feeling alright. Getting from the latter to the former takes ten seconds. The former to the latter usually requires sleep, and it doesn't always work.

[Asta Kask]

Lix, you need a cat. Having a cat will teach you that their problems (e.g., food) are much more important than your own.

[Karen Lynn]

Lix, you need a cat. Having a cat will teach you that their problems (e.g., food) are much more important than your own.

This is so true. We are merely bipedal servants to our fuzzy overlords. They let us live because we hide tuna in cans, and they've yet to figure out the can opener.

[Irish Musician]

This is so true. We are merely bipedal servants to our fuzzy overlords. They let us live because we hide tuna in cans, and they've yet to figure out the can opener.

The gods help us if they ever grown thumbs.......

~Matthew~

[SiuiS]

Usually...unless you're like me, I'm really heavy for my size.

Weight class, luv. Weight class. If you're four feet tall, four feet wide, your weight class is still... Based on weight. Most institutions work based on scale, and wrestlers and football players often gorge and purge as needed for the appropriate weight class. If you were paired base on height it may have been informal, or it may have been a different institution altogether.

Muscle is denser than fat, so at any given weight range you have an idea of what minimum and maximum amount of that weight is muscle. Of you're so tall, and weigh 140kg, then there's a ratio of fat and muscle and those who are maximum muscle are those who probably prepared the best, but it's weird that a man with 4% body fat is fine for his weight class along with a bigger chubbier fella, but a chick who needs hormones is cheating.

I'm tired. This is probably not coming across well.

The thing is, while a female Olympic weightlifter (not bodybuilder, they're two different things) is going to be stronger than a male office worker (and I don't know anyone who'd actually argue otherwise), she's not going to be as strong as a male Olympic weightlifter, even in the same weight class.

That is neither relevant nor in dispute.

Look, I get the gist. Using 2e model, lowest strength male or female is 3. Highest is 17 female, 18/00 male. That doesn't change that 60-70% are at 12.

I am also fairly certain that men's weight class and women's weight class are different. I'm feather in one and welter in the other. We would use an arbitrary but identical scale across the board in this case. I was specifically comparing kilograms of muscle. Sure, we need to compare other things too, such as muscle type and use, but we aren't getting to that point of granularity. What we are really discussing is that there is no difference between chixxor muskles and dood muskles, and that anti androgens and estrogens(?) won't make your dood muskles if you have any into chixxor muskles.

Were Fox not in the process of undergoing HRT, the difference would be pretty significant, probably in the range of 20-40%. As it is, the difference could be essentially entirely done away with, but it's vital that the organizations involved are kept in the loop.

We're Fox not in the process of HRT, she probably wouldn't have passed a physical.

"Evaporates" is an extremely imprecise term.

I don't see a problem with this, as it elucidates my point, has the proper connotation, and is accurate enough for our conversational needs.

Technicalities are for nerds.

The wording used in the paper is "When strength was expressed per kilogram of MM, these gender differences were smaller and/or not present." No exact figures are given (in the abstract, and I don't have access to the full text), but keep in mind we're talking a smaller difference than the absolute, which has the men literally twice as strong as the women. That's a very large margin to have reduced but still significant differences.

The wording is also unclear about whether or not they were comparing women's leg strength to men's arm strength. This isn't my first go-round on this topic though. I find sociological causes – such as a culturally ingrained force preventing women from doing the same rough and rumble men do for most of their lives, creating a positive feedback loop o physical weakness vegetating physical weakness – less worthwhile when discussing the numbers. Yes, top 1% man far outstrips top 1% woman. We aren't talking top 1%, we are talking about the general you.

Lix, you need a cat. Having a cat will teach you that their problems (e.g., food) are much more important than your own.

it's true!

Nah, not really. In all fairness, I am my household's alpha cat, though, so perhaps the household is still ruled by cat problems?

[Hazuki]

Wish I did, but I have both been lucky enough not to encounter particularly disagreeable friends and scared enough that I am not out to anyone I know in person. ^_^'

I'd say that preparing for whenever one wants to come out is a good idea, as is trying to influence people to be less disagreeable in general. Having people around who are accepting and supportive is really important, so looking for safe spaces or trying to make people less bigoted could be a good way to start.

I'm glad your friend has you! There's a whole internet out there for both you and her to read about this stuff and feel secure in addressing people who are ignorant or intolerant. ... And maybe find her some better friends, if you can't convince those ones...

Thanks. I've passed it along and he says thanks too.

[Mono Vertigo]

Being the font of wisdom she is, Musashi [...]

I find that funny, considering I'm the person who constantly suggested lethal use of knitting needles as an universal problem-solving tool this week, up to the point of single-handedly turning it into a running joke, then into a beat-up dead horse. And it appears I'm not done beating it, too.
I must be Wisdom-fluid. Or alignment-fluid. Whatever.

[Karen Lynn]

I find that funny, considering I'm the person who constantly suggested lethal use of knitting needles as an universal problem-solving tool this week, up to the point of single-handedly turning it into a running joke, then into a beat-up dead horse. And it appears I'm not done beating it, too.
I must be Wisdom-fluid. Or alignment-fluid. Whatever.

>.>
<.<
*stabs forehead with straw*
...
*slurps wisdom juice*

[Mono Vertigo]

>.>
<.<
*stabs forehead with straw*
...
*slurps wisdom juice*

That's not where my wisdom juice is.

[Lix Lorn]

Lix, you need a cat. Having a cat will teach you that their problems (e.g., food) are much more important than your own.

My stepdad is allergic

The gods help us if they ever grown thumbs.......

~Matthew~

I believe Tim Curry has something to say about that...

Nah, not really. In all fairness, I am my household's alpha cat, though, so perhaps the household is still ruled by cat problems?

And your owner is very good to you. You should snuggle her more.

[Thajocoth]

Some already have thumbs. Polydactyl cats. They just haven't figured out how to use them yet.

They're evolving.

[Lady Serpentine]

I spend at least as much time feeling ****ty and broken as I do feeling alright. Getting from the latter to the former takes ten seconds. The former to the latter usually requires sleep, and it doesn't always work.

*Hugs Lixie*

My PM box is... Well, usually clogged, actually, but you get the point. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help, okay?

[Lentrax]

Some already have thumbs. Polydactyl cats. They just haven't figured out how to use them yet.

They're evolving.

What?!

Kitty is evolving!

Congratulations! Your Kitty has evolved into Goddess-Emperor!

[Mina Kobold]

The gods help us if they ever grown thumbs.......

~Matthew~

Given my calculations, the hidden knowledge of the Bast cults, the secret reasons behind the medieval fear of cats and the adorableness of meows, I would say the deities of this world are already cats. They have already won. We have already won.

Join us! Meoin uw! Meeeeooooow! :3

That's not where my wisdom juice is.

*Peeks inside Musashi's fridge*

Is it in here? ^_^'

My stepdad is allergic

Robot kitty! ^_^

In all seriousness, sad to hear that. I would suggest another kind of pet or a hairless cat (depending on the type of allergy), but it is silly to assume that has not been considered. Do hope that someone or somebeing can be around to be a dose of cheer in your day soon, however. Otherwise, I shall have to swim and glomp you all the way across the strait!

Some already have thumbs. Polydactyl cats. They just haven't figured out how to use them yet.

They're evolving.

*Looks up on Wikipedia*

So many digits. O_O

[KenderWizard]

Thanks. I've passed it along and he says thanks too.

Not at all. He should come hang out with us!

I find that funny, considering I'm the person who constantly suggested lethal use of knitting needles as an universal problem-solving tool this week, up to the point of single-handedly turning it into a running joke, then into a beat-up dead horse. And it appears I'm not done beating it, too.
I must be Wisdom-fluid. Or alignment-fluid. Whatever.

I like the knitting needle thing. It's cathartic.

[Mono Vertigo]

*Peeks inside Musashi's fridge*

Is it in here? ^_^'

The KenderHive strikes again
I mean, yeah, right next to the milk.

[noparlpf]

Weight class, luv. Weight class. If you're four feet tall, four feet wide, your weight class is still... Based on weight. Most institutions work based on scale, and wrestlers and football players often gorge and purge as needed for the appropriate weight class. If you were paired base on height it may have been informal, or it may have been a different institution altogether.

Muscle is denser than fat, so at any given weight range you have an idea of what minimum and maximum amount of that weight is muscle. Of you're so tall, and weigh 140kg, then there's a ratio of fat and muscle and those who are maximum muscle are those who probably prepared the best, but it's weird that a man with 4% body fat is fine for his weight class along with a bigger chubbier fella, but a chick who needs hormones is cheating.

I'm tired. This is probably not coming across well.

No, I know all that. What I meant is, I'm short for my weight class. So most guys I'd end up against would likely have a big advantage in reach. Also, as I'm in the top weight class in several of the scales, there's no upper limit (besides human physiology) to what they might pair me with.
For reference, I'm 5'9"/175cm and 80 kilos/176 pounds (on average). (So 50th percentile for height, and 90th for weight for my age as of my last physical.) Used to be heavier, like 82-84 kilos, when I had access to a rock wall and was climbing regularly, but now I'm just biking ten to twelve miles a day.

I find that funny, considering I'm the person who constantly suggested lethal use of knitting needles as an universal problem-solving tool this week, up to the point of single-handedly turning it into a running joke, then into a beat-up dead horse. And it appears I'm not done beating it, too.
I must be Wisdom-fluid. Or alignment-fluid. Whatever.

Sorry, must have been subconsciously supporting that through the hivemind, as it usually sounds like the best plan to me.

The KenderHive strikes again
I mean, yeah, right next to the milk.

Weird, I keep my milk in the freezer next to the vegetables and ice cream.

[Lix Lorn]

*Hugs Lixie*

My PM box is... Well, usually clogged, actually, but you get the point. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help, okay?

(huggles)
Thanks.

Robot kitty! ^_^

In all seriousness, sad to hear that. I would suggest another kind of pet or a hairless cat (depending on the type of allergy), but it is silly to assume that has not been considered. Do hope that someone or somebeing can be around to be a dose of cheer in your day soon, however. Otherwise, I shall have to swim and glomp you all the way across the strait!

You should go for the swimming thing :P

[Thajocoth]

Weird, I keep my milk in the freezer next to the vegetables and ice cream.

That would make it so disgustingly cold.

I keep mine on the bottom shelf of the fridge because the top shelf is too cold for milk.

[noparlpf]

That would make it so disgustingly cold.

I keep mine on the bottom shelf of the fridge because the top shelf is too cold for milk.

A gallon is cheaper than two half-gallons, but I can't finish a gallon before it spoils. So I freeze it in sixteen-ounce bottles.

[Thajocoth]

A gallon is cheaper than two half-gallons, but I can't finish a gallon before it spoils. So I freeze it in sixteen-ounce bottles.

I buy 2 gallons at a time. Finish them within a week. One over a weekend and one across the weekdays. Would be more if I didn't have work on weekdays... Though I suppose they buy milk here & I use the company's milk too. It's my primary source of protein.

[Lady Serpentine]

(huggles)
Thanks.

*Smiles, because huggles are good*

You're welcome.

[noparlpf]

I buy 2 gallons at a time. Finish them within a week. One over a weekend and one across the weekdays. Would be more if I didn't have work on weekdays... Though I suppose they buy milk here & I use the company's milk too. It's my primary source of protein.

Hey, if that works for you. Do you drink skim milk? Whole milk has rather a lot of fat in it too.

[KenderWizard]

That would make it so disgustingly cold.

I keep mine on the bottom shelf of the fridge because the top shelf is too cold for milk.

I once noticed that the fridge wasn't working right because the milk was about a degree warmer than it should have been. Unfortunately, no one listens to the kid who says "The milk is _definitely_ marginally warmer today!" so the impending fridge catastrophe was not averted. #CassandraLives

The thing is, I really like cold cold cold milk.

Although I recently discovered babyccinos, where instead of a coffee (which I don't drink) or a tea (which they _never_ put frothy milk or marshmallows in) or a hot chocolate (which I find far too rich), they make a little cup of warm milk with frothy milk on top and marshmallows and cocoa powder and it's nominally for kids but I LOVE THEM!! And in Costa they also do ones with some cocoa powder mixed in which is like a really light hot chocolate, and they're only 75c as opposed to like 4 euro for a hot chocolate. Score!

Hey, if that works for you. Do you drink skim milk? Whole milk has rather a lot of fat in it too.

I recently switched to skim milk and it's great. I found that milk agitated my IBS symptoms, but like Thajocoth, I drink a _lot_ of milk. I cut down, but I was no way able to cut milk out; I usually drink it with dinner, I always drink it with chocolate, I love cereal, I have very milky tea. But I switched to skim because often it's the fat in milk that people find hard to digest, and it's been great! And less fat is generally good, since I tend towards a high-fat diet. So wins all around for Kender!

[Thajocoth]

I drink 1%.

[noparlpf]

I drink 1%.

Ah. Dunno why, I like whole milk and skim milk, but 1% and 2%, although not drastically different, just taste weird to me.
Drinking heavy cream, though, is awful, just half a gallon and you want to throw up.

[Thajocoth]

...want to throw up.

I've only gotten that from one beverage & it wasn't milk. Only once too... A sip of water in the middle fixed it.

I find skim to be too gross to drink. Whole tastes almost like ice cream to me now. 2% is okay. That's what they have at work.

[SiuiS]

>.>
<.<
*stabs forehead with straw*
...
*slurps wisdom juice*

Tropicana freh-squeezed zombie murder!

That's not where my wisdom juice is.

This quote is the best quote. Depending on tone of voice... Hahaha.

My stepdad is allergic

Sucks. :(

And your owner is very good to you. You should snuggle her more.

That's what she said! :D
You must be very smart :3

No, I know all that. What I meant is, I'm short for my weight class. So most guys I'd end up against would likely have a big advantage in reach. Also, as I'm in the top weight class in several of the scales, there's no upper limit (besides human physiology) to what they might pair me with.

You do grappling though, right? Shorter limbs and denser muscle work better there.

But the point isn't to make things 100% even, because that's impossibly granular. It to minimize the really bad, obvious disparities.

For reference, I'm 5'9"/175cm and 80 kilos/176 pounds (on average). (So 50th percentile for height, and 90th for weight for my age as of my last physical.) Used to be heavier, like 82-84 kilos, when I had access to a rock wall and was climbing regularly, but now I'm just biking ten to twelve miles a day.

Dayum. Would have loved to grapple you back in the day. A good loss is always fun.

I buy 2 gallons at a time. Finish them within a week. One over a weekend and one across the weekdays. Would be more if I didn't have work on weekdays... Though I suppose they buy milk here & I use the company's milk too. It's my primary source of protein.

Yeah. I lived on milk for a while, but now I'm working overnight it's harder.

Hey, if that works for you. Do you drink skim milk? Whole milk has rather a lot of fat in it too.

from recollection, milk fat is easier to digest, and has more useable nutritional value than just dumpy ol' fat. I think some of the vitamins are in it actually, but this is all like, 100% from vague memory.

Really though, it's a matter of satisfaction. A glass of milk is more physically satisfying than a meal's worth of stuff that my body doesn't want. That's why I still eat cheeseburgers and stuff, it's like buying a good book. a small jdulgence that keeps me sated for a while, a week or two.

Of course I also lived off of coffee and spite, and whole milk was the only thing vaguely resembled food in there. I'm probably going to develop an allergy in te next decade.