OOTS #896 - The Discussion Thread

[Sir_Leorik]

Have we ever actually seen a Snarl tentacle come through a rift?
Or did that only happen in a story told by a Chaotic politician?

Spoiler

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Redcloak's story to Xykon about the Dark One, the Gates and the Crimson Mantle in SoD also shows a Snarl tentacle come through the Rift in Lirian's Glade and kill a Goblin Cleric. That's how the Dark One learned of the Snarl and the Rifts in the first place. (The older gods would not share that info with him on his Ascension.)

[Necrus Philius]

My guess? They use vi to teleport the rift to their dimension somehow. Next book? Oots: To hell and back again. In order to figure out which dimension to go to they kill belkar in order to send him in as their scout.

[Roland Itiative]

Why does there need to be some special construction to allow one-way sound travel? None of the characters up top have enhanced elven hearing; maybe they just failed their listen checks?

Because:

1- We see the special construction, just look at the panel.

2- The people who were supposed to use the tunnel don't have accute elven hearing.

3- They possibly devised their defenses to work against elves too (since their territory is rather close to the pyramid), so an elf in the upper level should not be able to hear a Draketooth on the tunnel.

[Magesmiley]

"when in doubt, set it on fire"

Gotta love it.

[Xelbiuj]

You guys know they could just be communicating with the imp, right?


and this

"when in doubt, set it on fire"

Gotta love it.

[nogall]

All they need to do is make V stop talking -- and shut Blackwing up as well, which could be why Qarr was so keen to get him out of the picture. I'd be mildly surprised to see Vaarsuivius take any overt action against the Gate here.

Oooh, is dominated V going to kill blackwing? could she do that? That would be rather sad, but it makes sense...

[Craft (Cheese)]

And now, we cut to 154 pages of what the Katos are up to on their new island home...

[Starwaster]

Looks like it's time for the IFCC to cash in their chips. So, do they want the gates destroyed (are they trying to quiet V) or are they going to use V to keep the gate safe? Will be interesting to find out.

Not cashing in their chips.

More like calling in their marker(s).

And they've got quite a few combat rounds worth to call in. (I haven't bothered to figure how many but I'm sure someone has... definitely a metric **** ton of them)

[hereticus81]

Long time viewer first time poster (on a comic discussion at least). I cannot wait for the next strip now.

1) No, despite his contract for the time share, V is not spiritually responsible what they do while in charge (that does not mean V's teammates can't still blame all such actions on V, just that the nigh omnipotent number crunchers in heaven won't)

While I see your point and personally agree to a degree the comic sees things differently, or at least that's how I read that strip it's eminently possible that I'm wrong!

Spoiler

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Basically the celestial beauracracy voted Vs behaviour as a marked swing towards evil

.

As Kish has pointed out I completely misread SweetGoddess' post. All apologies Sweet and all thanks to Kish. (deleting or editing the psot out of existence doesn't feel right in case anyone's curious.)

[Incom]

I'm surprised nobody (myself included) realized that Belkar wasn't paying attention to Shojo's story, and that the party has no reason to tell the token party psychopath about the nature of the potentially world-destroying structures. Nice one, Giant!

[Kish]

While I see your point and personally agree to a degree the comic sees things differently

Spoiler

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Basically the celestial beauracracy voted Vs behaviour as a marked swing towards evil

.

Uh. The comic said that Vaarsuvius is responsible for what s/he used his/her Soul Splice power to do. That is 1) a huge "duh," and 2) not at all the same as "Vaarsuvius will also be spiritually accountable for what his/her body does while being puppeteered by fiends."

Or to put it another way, to say that Belkar is completely morally accountable for having murdered goblins who were trying to surrender at the time does not require or imply that Belkar is morally accountable for helping Malack fight Durkon.

[Sir_Leorik]

Oooh, is dominated V going to kill blackwing? could she do that? That would be rather sad, but it makes sense...

Unfortunately, dismissing Blackwing would be a good strategy for the IFCC directors. As part of the familiar class feature, a Sorcerer or Wizard can just dismiss their familiar. The Sorcerer or Wizard needs to make a Fort Save (DC 15) to avoid losing 200 XP per level and can't summon a new familiar for a year and a day, but there are no other negative consequences. Blackwing's ability to speak is a supernatural effect that comes from being V's familiar. Dismissing Blackwing will permanently shut him up. Plus the IFCC can always tell V later that they were "merciful" and didn't kill the raven...

[attriel]

"when in doubt, set it on fire"

Gotta love it.

Is there a Dalek/Belkar crossover pic somewhere we can add the words "IM-MO-LATE!" to???

PLEASE????

[hereticus81]

Uh. The comic said that Vaarsuvius is responsible for what s/he used his/her Soul Splice power to do. That is 1) a huge "duh," and 2) not at all the same as "Vaarsuvius will also be spiritually accountable for what his/her body does while being puppeteered by fiends."

Or to put it another way, to say that Belkar is completely morally accountable for having murdered goblins who were trying to surrender at the time does not require or imply that Belkar is morally accountable for helping Malack fight Durkon.

You are of course correct. I completely misread SweetGoddess' post. time to edit my post methinks

[tomandtish]

Have we ever actually seen a Snarl tentacle come through a rift?
Or did that only happen in a story told by a Chaotic politician?

Spoiler

Show

Redcloak's story to Xykon about the Dark One, the Gates and the Crimson Mantle in SoD also shows a Snarl tentacle come through the Rift in Lirian's Glade and kill a Goblin Cleric. That's how the Dark One learned of the Snarl and the Rifts in the first place. (The older gods would not share that info with him on his Ascension.)

Spoiler

Show

Actually, WE’VE never seen a tentacle come through a rift. All we know is what happens to them when they are destroyed. EVERYTHING else is told to us by others after the fact (yes, even Blackwing’s observation).

IF The Dark One was telling Red Cloak the truth, then he did see a tentacle come through the rift. Everything else he knows about the Snarl he got from the other Gods. Were they telling him the truth? Who knows… In short, Red Cloak’s and Xykon’s knowledge base is certainly questionable at best. Even if The Dark One is telling Red Cloak the truth, most of the Dark One’s own info is second hand. Xykon’s info is even further than that (and we KNOW Red Cloak is lying to him).

Likewise, our heroes only know about it from Shojo (who is known to lie). Even if he was telling the truth, he may be using faulty info as well.

Blackwing’s account is arguably the most reliable (no obvious reason to lie to V), so we could assume he’s accurately relaying what he saw. Now, is what he saw what is actually there?

In short, we should take ANYTHING we think we know with a grain of salt the size of the Abyss.

[attriel]

I'm surprised nobody (myself included) realized that Belkar wasn't paying attention to Shojo's story, and that the party has no reason to tell the token party psychopath about the nature of the potentially world-destroying structures. Nice one, Giant!

It's not that he wasn't paying attention.

It's that he wasn't there at all

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0279.html
him running away from Miko while the Order is getting exposition
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html -- you'll notice he's not here.

Celia even points out that he's not there for the trial, in which the exposition takes place here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0269.html

(yeah, sorry, kept finding more strips)

[Sir_Leorik]

While I see your point and personally agree to a degree the comic sees things differently, or at least that's how I read that strip it's eminently possible that I'm wrong!

Spoiler

Show

Basically the celestial beauracracy voted Vs behaviour as a marked swing towards evil

.

Uh. The comic said that Vaarsuvius is responsible for what s/he used his/her Soul Splice power to do. That is 1) a huge "duh," and 2) not at all the same as "Vaarsuvius will also be spiritually accountable for what his/her body does while being puppeteered by fiends."

I got the impression from that strip that the Deva was trying to warn Roy about everything that happened with V: making the deal with the IFCC directors, casting familicide, and becoming a Trojan Horse for the IFCC to use against Roy. She referred to V's "alarming dealings with the Forces of Evil". That includes agreeing to the IFCC's terms, being spliced, and becoming an unwitting pawn of the IFCC. The warning was an attempt to counter the IFCC's influence and prevent just the sort of situation about to unfold.

[Onyavar]

Also, ha! I'd forgotten Belkar wasn't present during all the explanations about the Snarl.

Erm. Belkar WAS present. Look here. What surprised me, that no one already called it in the first pages (or did I miss it?)

There is only a tiny bit of explanation left for Belkar not knowing about it:

that Belkar wasn't paying attention to Shojo's story

Yes, he was playing with Scruffy and a String in that panel. Still, it's amazing that he couldn't remember that story AT ALL, since there was death and destruction in it.

[Ted The Bug]

If there wasn't a profanity filter on this board...ah, forget it, I'll swear anyway.

SQUIDDLEYDOODLFLUFFER!

This is gonna be one wild, wild ride. And maybe Tarquin could be powerful enough to stop Super-V? He doesn't want the world destroyed (or possibly even conquered, he seems content with his empire as-is), and he's a heck of a fighter. He could become a hero by sheer convenience. Unlike Nale/Xykon, he's not dedicated to Evil as a cause, it just happens to be the most convenient way for him to live his lifestyle.

Calling it for Big Tarquin Moment.

[ChaosArchon]

Just read the comic and holy... Everything seems like its coming to a boil :P

[Ted The Bug]

Ooh! Other possible theory - this gate could be fake. If Girard could build all of this, why not build a replica gate as well? We haven't seen the whole thing yet; maybe Gerard figured that people would spend so much time looking for the gate that they'd never question the authenticity of whatever gate-like object they found.

[crimsonjoe]

No one else has speculated this...

Early on, V peered into the rooms with the runes. Any chance all of this is just V under the same spell that caught everyone else?

[Knight.Anon]

Since V is now possessed V may get a reversed soul spice where V gets all of the powers of the three fiends but the fiends control V's body. Maybe V will get a token will save - probably not.

What are the 3e mechanics of demonic possession? I don't remember any. I never read Vile Darkness though, if they exist they would be there.

[Kobold-Bard]

I'm sure this will end well.

[Newwby]

I'm surprised nobody (myself included) realized that Belkar wasn't paying attention to Shojo's story, and that the party has no reason to tell the token party psychopath about the nature of the potentially world-destroying structures. Nice one, Giant!

Same! When Belkar started asking about the snarl I had to stop reading and think back, surprised I didn't notice that before. Even more surprised that Belkar never asked what they were doing - might be his low wisdom score but he seems to be really happy taking orders!

Each comic leaves me wanting the next more and more, I miss the days when I first discovered the comic and could just read it one after the next.

*edit*

No one else has speculated this...

Early on, V peered into the rooms with the runes. Any chance all of this is just V under the same spell that caught everyone else?

I'd assume the Draketooths/Girard himself designed the spell so it wouldn't affect the defenders in the tunnels, else how would they pick off victims of the microcosm?

The alternative is that V's 'happy world fantasy' is one in which he gets possessed by the IFCC(IFFC?).

[Kish]

Since V is now possessed V may get a reversed soul spice where V gets all of the powers of the three fiends but the fiends control V's body. Maybe V will get a token will save - probably not.

What are the 3e mechanics of demonic possession? I don't remember any. I never read Vile Darkness though, if they exist they would be there.

It strikes me as unlikely that the fiends can pour massive power into Vaarsuvius' body when they control it, or they'd have no need to make a deal with Vaarsuvius, since whoever they made a deal with would become ridiculously powerful when they chose. A random first-level commoner would do, or someone like Kubota. They could make the deal whenever they chose and have whoever they'd chosen Epic Teleport to the Gate right now.

: What? The snail from that generic dungeon? Here?
:heavily templated snail:: OBLITERATION.

[Coldwind]

"when in doubt, set it on fire"

Gotta love it.

Since he is using his old-but-gold lines, I believe he is having his last times. It seems like we are having a tribute to Belkar at the moment.

[luc258]

Vaarsuvius may not be responsible for what the fiends do with his controlled body, but he is responsible for not telling anyone about what he saw in the gate in azure city and at least partially for unintended consequences of that.

[Henry the 57th]

The IFCC are good at manipulating their pawns. I wonder if their orders for Qarr included, "Make sure the elf doesn't get anywhere near the gate."

Probably.

: "The best way I could think of to ensure her escape was to give that bozo instructions to the contrary."

[Harry Leipzig]

Well. Um. Huh. ... Crrrraaaaappppp. Bad, bad, bad. Poor V. While seeing Darth V would be fun again, it could not come at a worse possible moment.

Things could be leading to a villain three-way as Tarquin, Xykon, and the IFCC-via-V duke it out for the Gate. Could make for some awesome fight scenes.

I'm sorry, I got distracted when you said three-way.

Just trying to lighten the more people.