Goblins XVIII: Being yourself can be dangerous

[Traab]

That sounds about right. And nice catch on the level, I had forgotten about that. I was thinking more obvious rewards like the angel horn tip and such. But even so, the smug way he talked down to her with that little one crack. He clearly knew she wasnt going to do anything to him and had no choice in the matter and he clearly was right, because despite being enraged she did exactly that. And I would really like to know why. Is it just because he knows that as a lawful being she literally cant violate the rules of the little game she is playing? So he is free to say or do anything so long as it doesnt break the rules and she cant do anything about it? Or is there something more?

[Willie the Duck]

I would really like to know why. Is it just because he knows that as a lawful being she literally cant violate the rules of the little game she is playing? So he is free to say or do anything so long as it doesnt break the rules and she cant do anything about it? Or is there something more?

It could be that she is actually good as well as lawful (perhaps a little frayed around the edges on both measures) and isn't going to thrash a goblin simply because he was being a jerk.

[Draconi Redfir]

That sounds about right. And nice catch on the level, I had forgotten about that. I was thinking more obvious rewards like the angel horn tip and such. But even so, the smug way he talked down to her with that little one crack. He clearly knew she wasnt going to do anything to him and had no choice in the matter and he clearly was right, because despite being enraged she did exactly that. And I would really like to know why. Is it just because he knows that as a lawful being she literally cant violate the rules of the little game she is playing? So he is free to say or do anything so long as it doesnt break the rules and she cant do anything about it? Or is there something more?

i feel like it was more of a gamble if he was right or wrong, and he'd just respond accordingly.

"No. Am i right?"
"Yes."
"Then i command you to send me back."
and he gets sent back, because she was going to do that anyways.

"No. Am i right?"
"No."
"Then i command you to try to kill me."
And she tries to kill him, which is again what she'd do anyways.


it's like saying "I COMEPLL THIS ELEVATOR TO RISE!" after pushing the "up" button on the elevator. it was going to rise anyways, and your "command" didn't actually do anything. you just sound kinda cool in your own head while doing it.

[BaronOfHell]

If all questions had been yes/no with the recipient being worse off knowing the question than answering randomly I could follow, but there was also the question of Fumbles' name.
Which mean there were many more ways that answering without hearing the question could be incorrect than correct, hence so far I have failed to grasp the logic of Thaco's decision.

[GloatingSwine]

It could be that she is actually good as well as lawful (perhaps a little frayed around the edges on both measures) and isn't going to thrash a goblin simply because he was being a jerk.

More likely since she's a Lawful Good creature, he figured that if he gives the answer before the question she'll pick a question to which it is the right answer, because that's what a Good entity would do (especially if they can't not do good).

[Keltest]

I think you guys are overthinking it. He's a grumpy old man who has lived a full life and isnt really interested in going through a big song and dance about introspection, and who knows that even if he gets the answer wrong he can just Monk his way out of the death trap.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, he wasn't trying to game it, he just wanted to spite her.

[Willie the Duck]

More likely since she's a Lawful Good creature, he figured that if he gives the answer before the question she'll pick a question to which it is the right answer, because that's what a Good entity would do (especially if they can't not do good).

I was answering the question of why he was smugly talking down to her.

I agree with Keltest, he didn't know he was right, he was just not going to go through the song and dance.

[Radar]

I was answering the question of why he was smugly talking down to her.

I agree with Keltest, he didn't know he was right, he was just not going to go through the song and dance.

In words of Roger Murtaugh: he is too old for this... stuff.

[Vinyadan]

I don't really get it, and the writing in the past encounters wit the angel doesn't make me expect a grand or fully logical explanation.

[Godskook]

More likely since she's a Lawful Good creature, he figured that if he gives the answer before the question she'll pick a question to which it is the right answer, because that's what a Good entity would do (especially if they can't not do good).

Really disagree here. She already had the question set. If it was required, a lawful good person wouldn't change the question. And if it had not been set, a lawful good entity -still- would've attempted to be lawful about it, such as by randomizing the y/n value that's correct or deliberately asking it "wrong" in hopes Thaco would change his answer once he realized it was incorrect.

The one thing she **WOULD NOT** do is cheat to give him a free win.

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Of course, that's all assuming that answering the question is in some way required. If it's all pageantry to provoke change in the visitor, then her goals shift dramatically, and she'd have "maintaining the farce in general" as one of her goals. And we've speculated already in this thread prior to Thaco's turn that this might just be pageantry.

[Draconi Redfir]

hence so far I have failed to grasp the logic of Thaco's decision.

well then that's the problem. you're looking for logic where there is none.

There was no logic to Thaco's decision.

Thaco just wanted to be a **** while also getting it over with as fast as possible.

[Sholos]

I thought it was cute that Thaco thinks his demand meant anything. I found it weird that she bothered getting angry about since he's just posturing.

[Keltest]

I thought it was cute that Thaco thinks his demand meant anything. I found it weird that she bothered getting angry about since he's just posturing.

She's nominally Lawful Good (i think) so rubbing her face in the idea that yes, the Rules say she has to do this thing now, is actually correct.

[Draconi Redfir]

I thought it was cute that Thaco thinks his demand meant anything. I found it weird that she bothered getting angry about since he's just posturing.

it doesn't mean anything and he knows it. She was going to let him go anyways, he just saw the opportunity to be a **** to an angel and took it.

that's all it is. ya'll vastly overthinking things.

[remetagross]

New comic is up...and it's unexpected, to say the least.

[Fyraltari]

New comic is up...and it's unexpected, to say the least.

It... Doesn't look like it's supposed to be up yet?

[remetagross]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[mythmonster2]

Ellipsis clarified on Twitter that she uploaded the unfinished version and will be updating it

[Vinyadan]

Well, nice work on those heads.

[Fyraltari]

Is Kore supposed to be climbing in panel 2? Because his right arm looks wrong for that.

[Anteros]

It's already pretty gross. I don't want to see it in color.

[Lapak]

It's already pretty gross. I don't want to see it in color.

I actually found it much easier to actually distinguish both the face-shapes and Kore's overall shape in black and white; looking at the old pages it gets more muddled in color. I expect it will be less disturbing that way.

[JeenLeen]

Were the arms covered in armor before (such that we wouldn't have seen faces), or is this a change?

If a change, I wonder if that means souls can be used to fuel healing (in a sense)... but the head-chunk is still missing, so probably not, though obviously having an intact head appears optional.

[Traab]

Its hard to tell but I think he has removed almost all of his armor. its probably all too damaged to bother with anymore. We are seeing that he is some sort of unholy flesh golem covered in the screaming faces of his victims from head to toe. You know, normal paladin stuff.

[Kantaki]

The longer I look at Kore the goofier he looks.
No I idea why, but after a while the whole "body made from countless tiny screaming faces" thing flips from creepy and horrifying to just plain funny.

[Traab]

Maybe its because he is being cut down piece by piece? Its like fighting one of those huge rpg bosses in video games where the first few times you have to run away as soon as possible, but eventually you are able to weaken him over time until the final battle where you can finish him off. First the GAP did damage with the rope through the throat trick, causing some lasting damage, then forgath did more damage to both him and his gear, then we had the golem bash kore around and cause a LOT of damage. Now he is missing his armor, his weapons, and is gravely wounded. Badly enough that HE fled the fight. He is on his last legs and cant afford to run into minmax and the gap again. If he does before he has time to recover, he WILL be torn apart.

[Vinyadan]

For someone who was introduced as an unkillable abomination, Kore did lose a lot of his charm: he was tricked once with the rope, couldn't kill Forgath, was tricked again by Kin, the GAP soundly defeated him, and he doesn't even appear to be doing too well at dungeoneering, since he already fell through the roof once. By now, he is a problem only because he is the prison of Chief's soul, so the Goblins cannot evade him, but instead have to look for him and fight him to the bitter end (which would also save the village).

Spoiler

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Unless when he dies it turns out that Kore also was the prison to some other superdemon, or that the million souls he contained will cause a demonic singularity converging at Kore's last position.

I actually found it much easier to actually distinguish both the face-shapes and Kore's overall shape in black and white; looking at the old pages it gets more muddled in color. I expect it will be less disturbing that way.

I'm actually happy the page was uploaded in this version, I think it looks better than Kore usually does with the later steps (maybe with colour, shading and reflections it simply becomes overloaded), and it shows how much effort went in the pencils.

[Anteros]

For someone who was introduced as an unkillable abomination, Kore did lose a lot of his charm: he was tricked once with the rope, couldn't kill Forgath, was tricked again by Kin, the GAP soundly defeated him, and he doesn't even appear to be doing too well at dungeoneering, since he already fell through the roof once. By now, he is a problem only because he is the prison of Chief's soul, so the Goblins cannot evade him, but instead have to look for him and fight him to the bitter end (which would also save the village).

Well, the problem with unstoppable super villains that kill everything is that you can't really have your characters interact much with them without either killing your characters or worfing your villain.

Honestly, as portrayed Kore isn't that intimidating. If Minmax had just joined Forgath on the bridge instead of holding the gate they could have probably put him down.

[Radar]

For someone who was introduced as an unkillable abomination, Kore did lose a lot of his charm: he was tricked once with the rope, couldn't kill Forgath, was tricked again by Kin, the GAP soundly defeated him, and he doesn't even appear to be doing too well at dungeoneering, since he already fell through the roof once. By now, he is a problem only because he is the prison of Chief's soul, so the Goblins cannot evade him, but instead have to look for him and fight him to the bitter end (which would also save the village).

One has to remember that almost everyone in goblinverse has no PC classes and does not gain levels. So a well equipped paladin with quite a few levels under his belt would seem unstoppable. Forgath, Minmax and GAP have both levels and gear far beyond what typical monsters (or for example dwarves) that Kore has dealt with before would have.