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Thread: MCU: World of the Snap
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2021-08-10, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Originally Posted by DavidSh
I keep reading that as the Tennessee Valley Authority….
Originally Posted by Talakeal
I have long wondered how Infinity War would have played out if Thor and the people of Asgard had respected Hela’s claim to the throne.
And Thanos vs. Asgard with Hela in charge…isn’t a good day for Thanos.
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2021-08-11, 02:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Or what would T3 or IW have looked like if Thor&Friends would have brought a couple of those "stun disks" with them.
Just imagine Hela and Thanos getting one-shot with those devices :)
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2021-08-11, 06:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
The Snap would kill at least 90% of humanity, probably more.
First, let's look at the immediate effects. Half the people on airplanes will, of course, be dusted... but a quarter of airplanes will lose both their pilot and their co-pilot. Those planes are all crashing, killing everyone on board, plus whatever they hit.
Everyone on a major road, or the sidewalk next to it, is dead. When half the cars on the road suddenly go driverless, everyone crashes.
Some households are suddenly entirely empty (half of all single-resident households, a quarter of the two-resident, etc.). In a few of those households, someone just put something on to boil, or started some other similar process that needs supervision. Expect a large number of fires to start, within an hour after the Snap. Plus whatever happened from all of those crashing cars and airplanes.
At this moment when all these fires and other emergencies suddenly arise all at once, there's half as many firefighters as there are supposed to be. What's worse, the roads are all cluttered with crashed cars, none of which will be able to pull to the side to let the fire trucks past. Without effective response from the firefighters, the fires spread, until whole cities are burning.
We're already well over half the population, just in that first chaotic day. And now we start looking at all of those supply chains that humans depend on for survival. Even if production (of everything) scales with the total population (but it won't, because there are some specialists who hold key skills and information only in their heads), it's not all going to go where it needs to. Some people, in some places, starve. Or die of pre-existing health conditions, because their caretakers are dead, or they can't get their essential medications.
There's going to be a general breakdown of law and order, meaning a lot more violence. That'll kill more people. And most people don't know what's happening-- What if the high brass in a few nuclear-armed militaries decide that the Snap was a pre-emptive attack of some sort by their enemies? Missiles will fly in retaliation, and there go more people.
The human species would survive. There are a few people out there who are genuinely prepared to deal with cataclysm (hint: Almost none of the "preppers" are). Half of those people will stay undusted, and they'll rally a few other survivors. But it'd be very grim indeed.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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2021-08-11, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Drat, now I want to see this too!
I just want to see Infinity War with Ant Man present at the Battle of Wakanda - a couple of those shrinky-dink discs thrown at the murder mowers would have changed the whole course of the battle. Suddenly they’re only knee high and go from massive engines of destruction to a nuisance at best, and Scarlet Witch stays where she is, so that Black Order member can’t get to Vision…
Tyndmyr had a really good post on this in the FATWS thread.
This isn’t necessarily the case; it will at least partially depend on speed. If a given location is in the middle of rush hour traffic, then half the cars will start idling very slowly forward until they bump into the car in front of them (or other obstacles), but that won’t generally be fast enough to do enough damage to kill the remaining occupants.
The sidewalks might be a little safer in a big city if there are a lot in the way of parked cars on the side of the road being barriers, and the cars that are now driverless would, I presume, keep going forward in a straight line with no hand on the wheel. They might be more dangerous if they were already turning or if something hits them at speed sufficiently to change their direction. I wouldn’t want to be at an intersection during the Snap.
This is a good point. I’d be more worried about the mom-and-pop restaurants since those would be more likely to be cooking at a given time and less likely to use a microwave than a residence.
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2021-08-11, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Think we actually covered this one. It's still pretty bad, but not *quite* that bad. A decent proportion of large commercial aircraft have a three man crew rather than two, which reduces the odds. There is also a chance of a passenger being able to fly. Even people without flying experience have successfully landed a plane with radio help.
Now, could air traffic handle every such emergency all at once? God no. But they might be able to save a few of them.
Some households are suddenly entirely empty (half of all single-resident households, a quarter of the two-resident, etc.). In a few of those households, someone just put something on to boil, or started some other similar process that needs supervision. Expect a large number of fires to start, within an hour after the Snap. Plus whatever happened from all of those crashing cars and airplanes.
There'll also be some additional deaths from other critical absences. In surgery and the surgeon vanishes? That's awkward. Fortunately, relatively few people will be in a critical surgery at any given time.
It could make for a really fascinating apocalypse story, though.
The human species would survive. There are a few people out there who are genuinely prepared to deal with cataclysm (hint: Almost none of the "preppers" are). Half of those people will stay undusted, and they'll rally a few other survivors. But it'd be very grim indeed.
Thor:Ragnarok indirectly answers that. Executioner notably uses a pair of AR-15s to good effect holding off Hela's horde. Now granted, these were just standard military folks, raised again by Hela, but bullets pretty clearly work on them, so it doesn't seem like their bodies are bulletproof.
And absolutely no one survived against Hela except Thor and Valkyrie, and they wouldn’t have survived much longer if they hadn’t run away and let Surtur’s giant sword do the talking. I’d say the differential between Hela and all other Asgardians (less only Odin) is orders of magnitude greater than the differences among the Asgardians. Like Thanos, she’s in a class of her own.
Hela vs. Thanos would make for a great What If, though doubt if we’ll ever see that. But if puny human Stark can punch his way to a little scratch on Thanos, Hela and her infinite edged weapons should be able to make a lot more progress.Last edited by Tyndmyr; 2021-08-11 at 11:24 AM.
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2021-08-11, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-08-11, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
If Thanos pursues the Stones in the same order, he's only going to have Power by the time he challenges Hela for Space. If the timeline diverges further, he might also have Reality, but Soul, Mind, and Time are either inaccessible or in the hands of the Avengers. That might make it doable, but he's going to have to seriously work at it, and I figure the Queen of Asgard is going to have some very strong home field advantages in a metaphysical sense if nothing else.
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2021-08-11, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-08-11, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
On the other hand, the Power stone is the one that can blow up a planet just by touching it.
And if anyone can weaponize the Tesseract, it would be Hela. I can see her flicker-bamfing all around Thanos and flinging blades from every angle at once.
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2021-08-12, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-08-12, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Doesn’t he only need to capture Gamora to learn the Soul Stone’s location? I’d argue the reason he started collecting the stones when he did was that he learnt Gamora knew the Soul’s location, and collecting the stones would draw her out allowing Thanos to capture her.
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2021-08-12, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Remember that they call their timeline removal "pruning." The thing about pruned branches is that they grow back if left alone. So now that pruning is no longer happening, the specific variation AoS got shunted off to may have happened.
He's not alone though. Even without any Stones he has his fanatical Children - and Ebony Maw at least seems to be on par with if not superior to Stephen Strange, who magically manhandled Loki with ease. And he's just one of them - Cull, Proxima, Corvus etc are as strong as Asgardians if not stronger. This also helps to explain why he was confident enough to hand stones around to other villains, he knew he'd have no trouble getting them back. Hela would be pretty outmatched I'd say.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-08-12, 11:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
One thought: if Asgard bends the knee to Hela on her arrival, then it might not be a far stretch for Hela to get Stormbreaker. Mjolnir was made at Nidavellir, presumably Hela knows of its existence. If Hela's claim to Asgard is honoured, and in particular if Heimdall and everyone bar Loki and Thor bend the knee, then Asgard's people aren't in a spaceship when Thanos comes to town. Heimdall presumably can see Thanos coming, or Hela realises the nature of Thanos's threat and goes looking to the dwarves for another weapon since she's already destroyed the hammer.
It's not exactly clear when Thanos attacked Nidavellir (EDIT: and actually, it might've been chronologically before Avengers given Thanos has the gauntlet at that point) but if it was while Hela was distracted fighting her idiot brother, maybe that doesn't happen if Asgard submits to her rule. Maybe Hela takes the legions of Asgard to defend Nidavellir instead.Last edited by Saintheart; 2021-08-12 at 11:10 PM.
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2021-08-13, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
He does, but only Ebony Maw is worth considering, as all the rest die quite rapidly to an insane storm of blades. Consider the fight against the Valkyries. Arguably, the one surviving Valkyrie is roughly on par with Thor. The two don't seriously duke it out, but they seem to consider each other at least rough equals. Hela solos a few dozen of them at once.
While she does prefer to solve problems with a *lot* of stabbing and weapon conjuration, that's clearly not the limits of Hela's capabilities. She's got the magical mass resurrection spell on tap when needed, and she's quite familiar with magical items and even infinity stones, as shown by her tour of Odin's vault. Magic isn't a showstopper for her the way it might be for others that rely solely on brawn.
Being able to catch and destroy Thor's hammer is also a pretty significant feat that may be as much magic as it is force. She also tanks Thors lightning without effort. She can probably go head to head with Ebony Maw and not break a sweat. The MCU wiki actually lists her as immortal so long as Asgard exists.
It does seem likely that she's utterly connected to Asgard, and destroying it is clearly game over for her. That's definitely one of the reasons the stones can swing things. That said, she does prioritize the Eternal Flame over even an Infinity Stone, so it may be at least an equally powerful magical artifact(and more suited to her abilities). Given her access to one stone and the Eternal flame, she can probably take Thanos, Ebony Maw, the entire army....even with a stone or two, depending on which one and the exact nature of the fight.
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2021-08-13, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Thanos, with only a portion of his army and no stones at all, held his own against literally every Avenger - and nearly won. Hela wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds under those circumstances, zombie army or no zombie army.
Thanos was also subjugating planets before he had any stones at all; see for example the flashback where he "adopts" Gamora. Perhaps even an Odin-less Asgard might be a tougher nut to crack than some of the others, but as far as aliens go they're not major outliers at the end of the day.
Speaking of Asgard, the trouble with Hela's powers is that it's difficult to separate out how much of them derive from it or not. Take her reanimation - yeah it works on Odin's Terra Cotta warriors under the throne room, but that doesn't mean it works on anything else. I also doubt that those warriors would be even a speed bump for Thanos' Children, never mind the man himself.
As for tanking Thor's lightning... It was in fact with a great deal of effort, given how far he sent her flying. Keep in mind too that that was his third-act powerup, and Thanos beat his *** AFTER that, so we already have reason to believe he is stronger than her. It's unclear whether he needed any of the stones to do so - he certainly didn't need any for Hulk.
Stoneless Thanos beat Stormbreaker too. If he hadn't been blindsided by Cap wielding Mjolnir, he would have killed Thor with his own axe.Last edited by Psyren; 2021-08-13 at 09:59 AM.
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2021-08-13, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Given her access to one stone and the Eternal flame, she can probably take Thanos, Ebony Maw, the entire army....even with a stone or two, depending on which one and the exact nature of the fight.
So if Hela preemptively boards Thanos’ ship, the Power Stone is less useful to Thanos, except as a last resort to destroy his own ship—and she can handle that.
And as noted, most of the Children of Thanos aren’t that impressive. Horn Woman and Goblin Guy were literally on their hands and knees after a few rounds with Cap and Widow, and Lizard Guy went down, not to Hulk, but to a skinny guy wearing power armor.
As for Maw, he was nicked by one of his own brick-darts, so just imagine a shower of blades coming at him. I don't see him lasting too long.
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2021-08-13, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Or, alternatively, use the Bifrost like Loki did back in Thor 1 - as a large cannon. Blast Thanos’ ship to bits at extreme range. Not sure if Thanos can breathe in space but he can’t go teleporting place to place without the Space Stone - which Hela is camped on top of.
Speaking of transit, does Asgard have a fleet of its own? I remember ships in Thor 2, but not if they were space-capable. That might be another option if so.
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2021-08-13, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
Or, alternatively, use the Bifrost like Loki did back in Thor 1 - as a large cannon.
So yeah, with Heimdall targeting, the Bifrost could strike Thanos’ ship at essentially any range. We know unequivocally that Maw does not breathe vacuum well, and the other Children are even less likely to. Thanos might, but if his ship is vaporized around him, all he can do is flap his arms in the dark of lightyears between stars.
Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
Speaking of transit, does Asgard have a fleet of its own?
Also, the fact that there wasn’t an exodus of starships when the Asgardians were hiding from Hela in the mountain strongly suggests they had no way of leaving Asgard. And Loki’s arrival with the Statesman, proclaiming he was their savior, wouldn’t have had so much dramatic satisfaction for him if there had been other ships parked on the lawn.
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2021-08-13, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
To do that requires leaving the bifrost open to build up its energies over time. For a planet that's easy, but I don't think it would work that way for a moving ship, otherwise the bifrost would carve through everything in its path every time it's used and Odin would have banned it ages ago.
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2021-08-16, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
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2021-08-17, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MCU: World of the Snap
So, my talk on the Nine Realms of the MCU goes like this:
There are nine planets collected into some vaguely defined connection system called "Yggdrassil". This connection exists in some unknown subspace. In the second Thor movie, the Convergence event was said to be centered around a once every 5000 year lessening of the spacial boundaries between the nine realms, but how that actually works is an astronomic macguffin. I think of this as a wormhole corridor connecting them all.
So Yggdrassil is the name of this league of nine worlds, as well as the name of whatever cross-spatial anomoly ties them together.
Odin built the Bifrost, which is apparently some kind of teleportational machine that utilizes the special connection between the Yggdrassil worlds to allow instantaneous teleportation between them. The machine that forms the bifrost is apparently not physical, or if it is, it's well hidden and still exists after the total destruction of one of the nine worlds (Asgard) I think of this as a kind of engine powering travel through the wormhole corridor.
The nine worlds are:
Asgard (now destroyed) the home of the Asgardian alien race.
Vanaheim, the home of the asian alien race that Hogun belongs to. Why the Asgardians didn't go to Vanaheim after Asgard's destruction is something I'd like to see explained.
Nidavellier, the space station world orbitting the forge sun and home of the dwarves. All but Ettri are now dead, so we can consider this world mostly destroyed as well as Asgard.
Alfheim, home of the light elves.
Those four are located on ONE side of Midgard.
Midgard, or Earth, is the home of humans and seems to be the central axis of Yggdrassil. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the machine that controls bifrost, if it is physical, exists on Midgard somewhere and that's why the Asgardians moved there after Asgard's destruction. While Midgard is part of the Yggdrassil collective, the denizens of earth were largely unaware of the existance of the other eight realms which means that, for some reason, Odin and the Asgardians left them alone after disappearing as their "gods" several thousand years ago, but ALSO that the enemies of Asgard also left it alone. No idea why.
On the other side of Midgard are the other four realms. These four are largely populated with enemies of Asgard even through they apparently also owe fealty to the Asgardians in some fashion. Personally I think the Asgardian's claim of control over the worlds of Yggdrassil was largely boasting.
Jotenheim, the frozen world of the frost giants and frequent invasion target for Thor and his cronies. The giants of Jotenheim have some unknown way of travelling to other worlds which may or may not be different than Bifrost.
Muspelheim, the flaming world of Surtur, seen briefly at the beginning of Thor 3. Also not really under Asgardian control
Svartalfheim, the dead world of the dark elves, seen fallow and destroyed in Thor 2.
Nifheim, the dead world of Hel, where the dead go. No evidence that the Asgardians actually ever go there.
So, in short,
one world is destroyed
two-or-three worlds are abandoned or depopulated
one world is a frozen hell
one world is a burning hell
so really the nine realms are actually three. Midgard, Alfheim and Vanaheim. and then two or three sparsely populated worlds of monsters, Jotenheim, Muspelheim and Nifhelm.
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2021-08-25, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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