About selling your soul

[Edreyn]

Whatever mortal can possibly invent, Baatezu are already familiar with. They exist for much longer time and are way smarter and more vile. I am sure that they do expect literally anything.

And they will do their best to not be tricked by mortal, because if they do, they will face punishment so horrid that we can't even imagine it. Its their safety and not just losing mortal's soul to another devil.

[Samael Morgenst]

I think devils are overestimated. Not all devils are millennia old, and even those, are limited by their Intelligence scores and skill ranks. They can be superated, they don't gain a +1 to their checks every 100 years or anything similar.

[Crake]

I think devils are overestimated. Not all devils are millennia old, and even those, are limited by their Intelligence scores and skill ranks. They can be superated, they don't gain a +1 to their checks every 100 years or anything similar.

Not all devils are out there making deals either.

Ice devils for example, are seen explicitly as a dead end promotion, because they kinda suck at making deals due to bad mental ability scores. This is stated directly in fc2

Also, considering that every devil (aside from erinyes) started off as a lowly lemure for centuries before they got promoted to a higher form, even the lowliest of intelligent devils are AT LEAST centuries, and anything above an imp is probably AT LEAST a millennia old

[Samael Morgenst]

And how many books of infernal jurisprudence does a lemure reads through those centuries?

[atemu1234]

And how many books of infernal jurisprudence does a lemure reads through those centuries?

They don't really have to - they're beings of pure Law and Evil; that's halfway to a law degree already.

[Fero]

This sounds like a great idea!*

*...for the backstory of a guy whose body and soul have now been torn into eight pieces and each piece mounted at the gate to a different circle of Hell, all individually screaming for eternity, as an example to all those who would try to cheat the devils of their due.

That is an awesome idea. . . and sounds like the probable long term consequence of this strategy.

[Whitsend]

Well,
As a GM I have a simple solution to all this.....once the deal is signed, I lean over my GM Screen. Pick up the character sheet and say "My, this makes a great NPC now doesn't it."

When I GM I have a rule that the characters should be striving to be hero's, not villains or Soul-Lawyers.
I have two players that like to be on the edge of that and I periodically reign them in their behavior with "Are you sure this is in your long term interest to alienate the god of the priest that heals you?"
Amazing what behavior changes can occur when "Bless", "Cure" and other buffs stop working on a character.

[GeoffWatson]

Another idea.

Could the harvester devil be persuaded to add a clause forbidding him or his associates from causing any harm to the client, directly or indirectly?

They'd only consider that if the client and associates were also forbidden to do the same to them.

[atemu1234]

They'd only consider that if the client and associates were also forbidden to do the same to them.

Also, that's just begging for a non-associated devil to show up and do harm "coincidentally".

[Samael Morgenst]

I've another few questions about the pratice of selling the soul as described in Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrant of the Nine Hells.
Since I've been repeatedly requested to not open different topics for similar question, I'll write it there.


1. What happens if a soul seller becomes undead or immortal (Cloud Anchorite, Starmetal Adept, repeated use of Steal Life), therefore not dying, not becoming damned? Personally I guess the harvester devil would become increasingly frantic about murdering the contractor.

2. In this situation, would regular sentient sacrifices / offerings of wealth appease temporarily the harvester devil?

3. Could a harvester devil be persuaded to pass a percentage of the XP reward usually offered for a Pact Certain to a cult master for each cultist he manages to successfully convert?

- example: the cult master contacts an harvester devil (a Falxugon) working under Mephistophele. Why specifically the Lord of the Eight?

Until recently, the subtle, fi ery
Mephistopheles operated cults for Asmodeus as part of his
vassalage to the greatest of the archdukes. Now Mephistopheles is slowly relinquishing these subcontracted duties to
build a peculiar cult of his own that promises its members
control of hellfi re—a relatively new magical substance of his
design. This sect, which does not restrict its membership to
lawful evil adherents, has hidden cult aspects because it’s as
much a soul-harvesting operation as a means of entrenching
diabolical power in the Material Plane.

Because it seems the most likely to accept working with external contractors.

According to the Fiendish Codex, harvester devils are autorized to offer a certain amount of experience for the soul of a mortal (600 xp for a Pact Certain with a level 1 character).

The cult master makes this proposal: I convert cultists to Mephistophele, once they die - either in battle, on the sacrificial altar or in any other way - you get the merit for the soul and I get a share of that spiritual energy you would have otherwise offered for them (in game terms, 60 xp or something similar).


4. Excerpt from the Fiendish Codex 2:

Meanwhile, devilish intermediaries might seek out the captured foe’s allies or relatives and offer to return the prisoner
in exchange for their souls. Cash-poor or greedy diabolical
organizations sometimes grudgingly accept large sums of
money in lieu of souls. Where possible, a devil always double
deals, gaining both the prisoner’s soul and at least one other
soul as ransom

Could an harvester devil be persuaded to accept large sums of moneys in lieu of the contractor soul for the same provided benefit?
For example, could a contractor buy spiritual energy (devilish XP) as that offered in a Faustian Pact, paying in cold cash rather than with his soul?

[atemu1234]

These questions are better asked to your DM - or if you are the DM, pick whatever moves the story forward. If the relatively in-depth rules given don't satisfy your questions, the answers are determined by authority.

[vasilidor]

I really feel as though this is more the realm of the DM of the game that yo, specifically, are playing. Unless you happen to be said DM and are looking for thoughts on the matter, I don't know what we can really answer except what we would say as the DM.

That said, if you have some creative mage and a way to fake a soul in an illusion or some such, I can see such a ruse working in some circumstances.

[spectralphoenix]

I would argue that the soul-selling process is a magical ritual more than a mundane legal agreement. The magic actually changes the properties of your soul so it goes to a new destination. Otherwise, a CG character could simply sell his soul and dare his devilish creditors to file a lawsuit against Kord after death. If you attempt to sell a soul that isn't yours or is already sold, the ritual fails and the devil knows you tried to cheat him.

[Eurus]

1. Eh, they probably account for that. If 0.01% of people you make a soul contract with end up living extremely long lives (even an "immortal" doesn't live forever, you'll die of something eventually), that's a blip on the balance sheet. A smart devil probably takes a hit out on the contracted person if it's practical to do so, and if it's not, write it off as a loss and get to making more contracts. But a devil who's in the red or particularly desperate might do something more risky.

2. Sure, probably. Devils are nasty and spiteful, but they're not generally going to intentionally self-sabotage out of spite. If you're worth more alive than dead, you can probably stay on a devil's good side. But that's not going to win you much wiggle room the second you stop being profitable, and I expect they'd progressively try to squeeze more and more out of you.

3. I'm sure you could get something for it, converting a bunch of people to a fiendish cult in exchange for rewards is one of the more obvious deals that a devil would be happy to make. Whether you could specifically get experience points for it, well, see next question.

4. Experience points/levels are a fuzzy area in most settings. The process of how a devil transfers experience to you in exchange for your soul is unclear, so it's hard to say if it "should" work. But any kind of mechanical "EXP farm" has pretty serious setting implications if you decide to allow it to work consistently, so I probably wouldn't. On the other hand... that does sound like a lot of work, so maybe it's worth roleplay XP?