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Thread: What alignment is Oona?
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2020-10-29, 07:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
Whether or not the god enforces or represents that aspect as a fundamental part of their personality, or just exist in it because they have to exist somewhere. Neutral really represents two very different attitudes: "I don't care about it" and "I strive to not let the two extremes get too extreme". Weak Neutral is what I call the first one, and I feel that Dvalin is there. He cares about oaths and procedure and law. He doesn't care of the oaths are evil or good, if the procedures are fair or not, etc. Just that they exist, and must be followed. The avatar, in short, of the uncaring wheels of government, which don't care of results as much as they care that things are done in orderly fashion.
(I may have been watching a bit too much Yes, Minister clips lately)
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2020-10-29, 07:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: What alignment is Oona?
Yes, the dwarven Council of Clans, consisting of the dwarven elders. Hel's vampires are not dwarves, and have no business basically voting in the Council's stead.
We can speculate why. For example, it seems likely that this is the remnants of what was presumably the politicians/nobles actually running the realm (before they moved to a parliamentary system). Some of those head of clans were likely LE and worked to ensure that engaging in bribery, blackmail and other forms of coercion was exempted from the rules, because they engaged or intended to engage in them at points. Dvalin, by the very nature of the council and his deification, therefore doesn't see a problem with a will that has been manipulated away from the actual desires of the majority of the individuals of the council. Fairness is a G concept, and nothing indicates that Dvalin is anything other than strongly Lawful, and likely merely weak Neutral in the G-E scale, and thus cares not for fairness, only for procedure.
Grey Wolf
Further, even if the Exarch is right, there's the thing that
1. Dvalin did not design the chamber;
2. dwarves meddling with dwarven affairs and vampires meddling with dwarven affairs are two drastically different things.
All? Only two of them express that sentiment, and only because no elder really believes it can be a real question.
Dvalin honestly seems less dumb to me than the elders themselves do.
The problem isn't so much Dvalin listening to the council, but rather the council being filled by a bunch of bufoons who 1) didn't take measures to protect their members from voting under the influence, and 2) showed total disregard when it did take place. Surely there's a quorum law that could have been used to abort the meeting instead of letting it get hijacked by the vampires.
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2020-10-29, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: What alignment is Oona?
Yea, 100% of the two people who spoke up before the dominated dwarves started to vote. And as shown before that, nobody had a significant issue with over half of the council being dominated. One of them went "maybe we should wait?", but then was totally fine with continuing anyways. One of them says that sacrificing themselves for the other species would be the honorable thing to do. This question was NOT certain to end in a specific result, was domination to be avoided. The only evidence we have suggests that, indeed, had Hel NOT meddled in their affairs, the dwarves would have voted themselves to damnation.
I don't really see any stupidy in Dvalin.
Yea, because the council are decision-makers, and Dvalin is a rubber stamper.
Is the bureaucrat who executes an idiotic policy decided by his minister an idiot? No, not necessarily. He's just doing his job.
He could defy the government, but then he'd probably lose his job, at best. But he's got agency, free will. Gods, in this setting, are manifestation of ideas. While we can take Loki's "but I can't help myself" with a grain of salt, perhaps, but the deific representation of "I execute the council's will" is *not* likely to defy the council. Even if the council is half dominated.
We can't really have perfect RL equivalents because 1) we don't have deific manifestation of ideas, and 2) we don't have a godsmoot where we'd need someone to be our governments' voice.
But there absolutely are a lot of people who value the rule of law, and who are extremely uncomfortable with discretionary powers. Because granting discretionary powers is always a question of faith. You have faith the person won't abuse it. Or, in any case, you hope they won't. And every time you grant discretionary powers to whatever figure, you rob said powers from legitimized institutions (such as elected assemblies) in order to grant them to individuals. In western democracies, pretty much everyone in the state apparatus was either elected, or answers to someone who was. Sometimes this is many levels removed, like for police officers or teachers, but when you go up the chain of authority you always end up with someone elected, because in the end those are the only people we decided had the legitimacy to call the shots in the name of the people.
Dvalin's not elected. They didn't vote him into being a god, and they didn't vote him to remain the one with their voice in the godsmoot. He is completely disconnected from the People, and thus any and all unilateral (arbitrary/discretionary) decision would be completely lacking legitimacy.
Furthermore, it adds *precedent*, which itself creates a slippery slope. Not particularly pertinent to Dvalin given he's immortal and will hold the spot forever, but going with decisions you disagree with strengthens your role as rubber-stamper for your successors. If you go against the elected legislators, then you set precedent your predecessors can build upon to ignore them and do as he will. And that next person could do a lot of harm thanks to the precedent you set, possibly more than the harm you are approving. Fear of creating precedents is another factor motivating many law-oriented people. And in this context, many people can believe that a society where officials can ignore the elected assemblies when their decisions are bad is also a society where those officials can simply replace those elected assemblies when they will it. Strong democracies are not built upon the elected assemblies always doing the right thing, they are built upon the rule of law. And given a choice, people typically prefer to live in a society where the application of the laws is clear and predictable, as opposed to societies where the executive branch just does whatever the hell it wants regardless of the elected officials' decisions.Last edited by Goblin_Priest; 2020-10-29 at 07:45 AM.
Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
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2020-10-29, 07:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
Thats actually likely not accurate. Dvalin is a (demi)god who was previously a mortal, which means that there was sufficient dwarven will and respect behind him to empower him to that state. The other times weve heard of such an event going on, it was an effort of nearly the entire race to muster that kind of power and worship. So to that end, its likely he was actually "voted" to be there, under a certain use of "vote".
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-10-29, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: What alignment is Oona?
1) Yes, they are dwarves. They are able to enter the first barrier, therefore they are dwarves.
2) The vampires where not the ones voting, the heads of the clans are voting. Sure, they used magic to compel a vote rather than political favour, or bribery, or blackmail, or impassioned speeches, or whatever else other people used to use to compel a vote, but if a vote compelled ceases to be valid, then no vote has ever taken place in any context, anywhere.
3) Dvalin is not privy to any of this. He doesn't know, he can't know, and he is likely physically incapable of knowing what happens in the chamber, because he is the god of obeying oaths and if he swore to not interfere with the council, he will be physically incapable of doing so. He has a priest that tells him the way the vote goes and, as far as Dvalin is concerned, that vote is the Will of the Council, regardless of how the members voted or how they decided what to vote for.
You seem to think you are making some kind of point, but you are not. None of this in any way affects that to Dvalin, the will of the council is the result of the vote. The vote takes place in a procedural manner, in a chamber defended by 3 separate rings of defences. If the procedures are all followed, then the vote is definitionally the will of the council.
That is a bold claim, one you have no way to substantiate. When you have to resort to inventing your own canon so you can substantiate your original claim that the actual canon is stupid, you've effectively admitted out that you don't actually have a point. Or, as Rich put it:
Not from the perspective of whomever built that chamber. Nor from Dvalin's perspective, who does not care who meddled with the vote.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-10-29 at 08:18 AM.
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2020-10-29, 08:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: What alignment is Oona?
No. Three said what, then two (including one of these three) said yes could be an answer, and then the others started raising objections and stressing that further deliberation is needed.
I don't really see any stupidy in Dvalin.
Yea, because the council are decision-makers, and Dvalin is a rubber stamper.
Is the bureaucrat who executes an idiotic policy decided by his minister an idiot? No, not necessarily. He's just doing his job.
He could defy the government, but then he'd probably lose his job, at best. But he's got agency, free will. Gods, in this setting, are manifestation of ideas. While we can take Loki's "but I can't help myself" with a grain of salt, perhaps, but the deific representation of "I execute the council's will" is *not* likely to defy the council. Even if the council is half dominated.
We can't really have perfect RL equivalents because 1) we don't have deific manifestation of ideas, and 2) we don't have a godsmoot where we'd need someone to be our governments' voice.
But there absolutely are a lot of people who value the rule of law, and who are extremely uncomfortable with discretionary powers. Because granting discretionary powers is always a question of faith. You have faith the person won't abuse it. Or, in any case, you hope they won't. And every time you grant discretionary powers to whatever figure, you rob said powers from legitimized institutions (such as elected assemblies) in order to grant them to individuals. In western democracies, pretty much everyone in the state apparatus was either elected, or answers to someone who was. Sometimes this is many levels removed, like for police officers or teachers, but when you go up the chain of authority you always end up with someone elected, because in the end those are the only people we decided had the legitimacy to call the shots in the name of the people.
Dvalin's not elected. They didn't vote him into being a god, and they didn't vote him to remain the one with their voice in the godsmoot. He is completely disconnected from the People, and thus any and all unilateral (arbitrary/discretionary) decision would be completely lacking legitimacy.
Furthermore, it adds *precedent*, which itself creates a slippery slope. Not particularly pertinent to Dvalin given he's immortal and will hold the spot forever, but going with decisions you disagree with strengthens your role as rubber-stamper for your successors. If you go against the elected legislators, then you set precedent your predecessors can build upon to ignore them and do as he will. And that next person could do a lot of harm thanks to the precedent you set, possibly more than the harm you are approving. Fear of creating precedents is another factor motivating many law-oriented people. And in this context, many people can believe that a society where officials can ignore the elected assemblies when their decisions are bad is also a society where those officials can simply replace those elected assemblies when they will it. Strong democracies are not built upon the elected assemblies always doing the right thing, they are built upon the rule of law. And given a choice, people typically prefer to live in a society where the application of the laws is clear and predictable, as opposed to societies where the executive branch just does whatever the hell it wants regardless of the elected officials' decisions.
Also, if Dvalin just abides by the will of anyone posing as the Council even if he knows they are not the Council is a precedent as well, and an ugly one at that.
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2020-10-29, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: What alignment is Oona?
We don't know that as we don't know if he would have regarded it as the will of the council (panel 5) if they were under mind control - but it seems irrelevant to the story.
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2020-10-29, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: What alignment is Oona?
No. They are vampires.
2) The vampires where not the ones voting, the heads of the clans are voting. Sure, they used magic to compel a vote rather than political favour, or bribery, or blackmail, or impassioned speeches, or whatever else other people used to use to compel a vote, but if a vote compelled ceases to be valid, then no vote has ever taken place in any context, anywhere.
3) Dvalin is not privy to any of this. He doesn't know, he can't know, and he is likely physically incapable of knowing what happens in the chamber, because he is the god of obeying oaths and if he swore to not interfere with the council, he will be physically incapable of doing so. He has a priest that tells him the way the vote goes and, as far as Dvalin is concerned, that vote is the Will of the Council, regardless of how the members voted or how they decided what to vote for.
You seem to think you are making some kind of point, but you are not. None of this in any way affects that to Dvalin, the will of the council is the result of the vote. The vote takes place in a procedural manner, in a chamber defended by 3 separate rings of defences. If the procedures are all followed, then the vote is definitionally the will of the council.
That is a bold claim, one you have no way to substantiate. When you have to resort to inventing your own canon so you can substantiate your original claim that the actual canon is stupid, you've effectively admitted out that you don't actually have a point.
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2020-10-29, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: What alignment is Oona?
And also dwarves.
This assertion is non-canonical.
Quite the opposite. This assertion is non-canonical. And even if it was (and it is not), just because other gods can see does not automatically mean Dvalin is not prevented from watching the deliberations by his very nature of what he, specifically, is the demigod of.
My assumptions fit the canon. My assumptions are not in the service of claiming the canon to be stupid. Therefore, my assumptions are perfectly fine when explaining canon.
No, you didn't. You simply said they weren't, but you didn't actually show it to be the case. In fact, canon is quite clear that there is significant loopholes in the rules, and therefore seems likely some are intentional.
No, I didn't. I mixed canonical facts with extracanonical assumptions that explain supposed plotholes. The difference between us is that you use you non-canonical assumptions to claim the canon is stupid, while I use them to explain why they are not. And also you seem to be under the misapprehension that "vampires are not dwarves" and "Dvalin can see what their priest in the chamber sees" and "if Thor knew, Dvalin knew" are canonical, when they are not.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-10-29 at 08:56 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2020-10-29, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
The Dwarves are supposed to be honorable to the extreme. Why on earth would they program in loopholes to allow themselves to be corrupted like that? Even ignoring the dangers of outside hostile parties coming in and meddling with their politics (which we know for a fact can happen, because it did on screen), deliberately enabling ways for you to act dishonorably seems like a bad bet, overall.
And now we can stop ignoring the fact that deliberately putting in those loopholes paves the way for hostile outside parties to come in and subvert your politics. The council would basically have to be idiots for those loopholes to stand.“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-10-29, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: What alignment is Oona?
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2020-10-29, 09:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
Evil means selfish, not stupid. We know from Hilgya that overtly evil dwarves prospering in the afterlife is unusual because being overtly evil like that also means being overtly dishonorable. Which is a bad bet. So even if theyre selfish and power grabbing, its still in their best interests to play it straight, or at least protect the legitimacy of the institution as a whole, because otherwise they get the bad afterlife, lose all their power as the system is replaced with one that actually functions again, or both.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-10-29, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: What alignment is Oona?
I wouldn't bet a lot of quatloos on the idea that it's unlikely that a bureaucratic/political body would allow a flawed set of rules with exploitable loopholes to keep existing. Especially since said body belongs to a race which has a reputation of being so Lawful it hurts so anyone who proposes altering the laws could just get accused of being an anarchist who's inviting chaos and disorder.
As Grey Wolf has said, being Lawful doesn't mean you're Good. More than that, being Lawful doesn't mean you're automatically smart or rational.
I believe Hilgya's lesson is specifically that Chaotic dwarves tend to get in trouble with the afterlife. Being honourable is a Lawful trait, not a Good trait. Chaotic Good characters can backstab everyone to hell and back and it doesn't hurt their Good alignment as long as said backstabbing is for the sake of doing what they perceive is the right thing.
Of course I know a lot of people think that backstabbing is Evil but honestly that sounds more like Lawful Good having difficulty recognizing Lawful and Good as having different criteria.Last edited by Worldsong; 2020-10-29 at 09:28 AM.
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2020-10-29, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: What alignment is Oona?
Ease of work, lack of imagination and no system is fool proof.
Even ignoring the dangers of outside hostile parties coming in and meddling with their politics (which we know for a fact can happen, because it did on screen), deliberately enabling ways for you to act dishonorably seems like a bad bet, overall.
It is not dishonourable to do so it is what Oldy would have wanted if they were still in their right mind.
We don't know what circumstances might have brought about the current situation.
And now we can stop ignoring the fact that deliberately putting in those loopholes paves the way for hostile outside parties to come in and subvert your politics. The council would basically have to be idiots for those loopholes to stand.
After the vampire problem they might very well change them to add security.
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2020-10-29, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
Hel was able to figure them out with all of 3 days to make the plan. That does not suggest that the problem is particularly obscure or difficult to predict.
Heck, theyre even aware of the possibility of outsiders screwing with the vote, because they have a barrier meant to stop non-dwarves from getting in, as well as a security team. Is it that hard for the cleric of Dvalin to cast a circle of protection from evil around the table before the vote goes off to make sure nobody has their free will violated?
As for your example, allowing people to override the free will of the representative if they think theyre voting wrong defeats the whole point of having a representative, to say nothing of being highly immoral. If thats the concern, pick somebody who will actually represent the interests of your group.Last edited by Keltest; 2020-10-29 at 09:34 AM.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-10-29, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: What alignment is Oona?
No. They are vampires possessing the bodies of dead dwarves.
This assertion is non-canonical.
Quite the opposite. This assertion is non-canonical.Spoiler: SoDThis is also how Big Purple learned about the existence of the Rifts.
And even if it was (and it is not), just because other gods can see does not automatically mean Dvalin is not prevented from watching the deliberations by his very nature of what he, specifically, is the demigod of.
My assumptions fit the canon.
My assumptions are not in the service of claiming the canon to be stupid. Therefore, my assumptions are perfectly fine when explaining canon.
No, you didn't. You simply said they weren't, but you didn't actually show it to be the case. In fact, canon is quite clear that there is significant loopholes in the rules, and therefore seems likely some are intentional.
Further, your assertion that this is intentional is non-canonical.
No, I didn't. I mixed canonical facts with extracanonical assumptions that explain supposed plotholes. The difference between us is that you use you non-canonical assumptions to claim the canon is stupid, while I use them to explain why they are not. And also you seem to be under the misapprehension that "vampires are not dwarves" and "Dvalin can see what their priest in the chamber sees" and "if Thor knew, Dvalin knew" are canonical, when they are not.
You keep saying vampires are dwarves. Vampires, are, however, vampires (panel no. 4: the Exarch himself makes this distinction).
You said dwarven law allows for compelling the votes. This is non-canonical.
And again: I never said canon is stupid. I said Dvalin is stupid, which does not contradict canon. The rest is your uninformed guess.Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-10-29 at 09:43 AM.
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2020-10-29, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: What alignment is Oona?
Hel is:
a) A deity.
b) Likely been plotting ways to end the world since shortly after the world began.
c) Knew votes would be coming up where the end of the world was a possibility.
I don't think it is a stretch to think she might have thought about it more then most people.
As a side element:
d) Had recently acquired a servant who had a stickler for the rules's knowledge of the rules.
Heck, theyre even aware of the possibility of outsiders screwing with the vote, because they have a barrier meant to stop non-dwarves from getting in, as well as a security team. Is it that hard for the cleric of Dvalin to cast a circle of protection from evil around the table before the vote goes off to make sure nobody has their free will violated?
They are - the vampire template does not remove the dwarf subtype from a creature who acquires it.Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-10-29 at 09:48 AM.
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2020-10-29, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
Do it as part of the setup then. It lasts 10 minutes per caster level, so thats a minimum of 50 minutes duration for a 3rd level spell. Possibly longer if they actually want to be effective and use a higher level caster.
And it is HIGHLY doubtful that Durkon has spent any amount of his time pondering ways to subvert the will of the council of elders.“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-10-29, 09:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
Relevant other comic:
https://dilbert.com/strip/1996-10-04
Specifically the lines:
"You don't care how bad our internal processes are, as long as they're well documented and used consistently?"
"That's right."
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2020-10-29, 09:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: What alignment is Oona?
I still have some difficulty with the idea that it's improbable of a council/committee to keep following a set of rules despite them being outdated and flaw-ridden.
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2020-10-29, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
I dont think anybody is arguing that its horrifically unlikely, just that its stupid. And i dont want to read a story about stupid politicians causing problems. I get enough of that in reality. Besides which, plots based on key members being wildly stupid are, IMO, poor in general. If theres going to be a problem, dont have the protagonist be the only one with enough common sense to fix it. It just begs the question of how they got so far in the first place without being destroyed or forced to change.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-10-29, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
I’ll go a step further: Dvalin isn’t a person. Dvalin is a god.
We might expect people to act like people. But gods are not people, and it’s a mistake to assume that a god should act like a person.
Dvalin is an infinite object that transcends time and space that represents the concept and ideal of dwarven law.
Dvalin isn’t a thing that can just stop being Dvalin because it’s not convenient to be Dvalin for a while.
Dvalin is... Dvalin.Last edited by Dion; 2020-10-29 at 04:32 PM.
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2020-10-29, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What alignment is Oona?
Wasnt the whole point of the godsmoot arc to demonstrate that the gods are people too, who are fallible and flawed? They dont have free will, but they arent computers either.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2020-10-29, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: What alignment is Oona?
Vampire is a template. They remain dwarves.
Not necessarily. Dwarves had enough belief in "the law must be obeyed to the letter" than they made a god out of the concept. While individuals can serve as a focus, the gods have been made out to be mostly made out of ideas. And Dvalin is the recycling of a dead mortal that most closely stuck to this idea.
I'm not sure which analogy of mine doesn't work, but neither does yours. As I said, there are no RL equivalent to this. I don't believe the power to declare war rests with the minister of foreign affairs in any country. That's kind of a pretty big power to delegate to such a person. But in any case, even if we go with the hypothetical scenario in which the minister of foreign affairs has the authority to declare war (or not), then this in itself makes the analogy improper, because the distinction is that Dvalin presumably does *not* have the authority to.
Seriously. The council had a ton of rules to help protect them. But, *gasp*, they didn't foresee vampiric domination. How implausible is it that a rule-heavy system might contain a few loopholes to exploit? Not the least, in my book...
Vampires are really rare, goodsmoots are maybe rare, and votes on the destruction of the world are probably super rare. So, the opportunities the elders had to hash this out are... probably "never before". That council is also said to not very very representative of the dwarves anymore, it's an ancient institutions held by a bunch of senile aristocrats.
Furthermore, the intelligence of the elders is not a crucial plot point, because more than half of them were dominated anyways. How smart the rest of them are is pretty irrelevant. Durkon's solution is really "thinking outside the box", also self-sacrificing, I don't think it implausible that none of the other elders would have considered breaking the table. As for Dvalin, he's just a rubber stamper.
Is it so super clear cut, though? We the readers get swirly eyes. In-game, dominated people aren't so obvious, you need to roll a check to notice it as far as I remember. The lack of caution on the council's part is not the smartest move, but the abundance of people out there eating tide pods or drinking bath water or bleach is making me not mind as much anymore for characters making dumb decisions in fantasy stories.Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
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2020-10-29, 04:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: What alignment is Oona?
Think of all the times in your life you’ve had this conversation:
A: thats stupid
B: thats the rules
A: the rules are stupid
B: but they’re still the rules
You’ve had that conversation a thousand times. You’ve been on both sides of that conversation. That conversation is probably 5,000 years old. That conversation will never, ever end, until we’re all either dead or replaced with super intelligent hive mind AI. It probably won’t end then.
Honestly, it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that a deliberative body would follow the rules. It would have interfered with my suspension of disbelief lief if they *had not* followed the rules, because that so rarely happens.Last edited by Dion; 2020-10-29 at 04:45 PM.