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Thread: Combat wheelchairs
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2021-01-19, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: Combat wheelchairs
I'm sympathetic to these goals, but I'm also a simulationist, and having stuff that doesn't actually matter bothers me and detracts from my fun, so I'd actually go for modeling a wheelchair as a kind of mount instead. If you want a self-propelled wheelchair I'll be happy to charge you seven years without love for one (you can buy it from a hag in your backstory, and if it gets destroyed you can buy another from her, in exchange for your seven happiest memories) and it can function as a Medium mount with 15' move that can nevertheless carry a Medium creature. Or you can pick a Large wheelchair with 50' move, or just use a regular saddle and a horse. (King Cho-Hag from the Belgariad comes to mind as a disabled person who did exactly that: spent almost his whole life in the saddle.)
That is, I'd want the choice to play a disabled character to be significant, in a plausible way, while also being interesting enough that I personally would be tempted to play one for some concepts. There's a Str 6 Barbarian [Defensive Duelist, Skill Expert (Athletics), Bear Totem] which I rolled up once in discussion on 3d6-in-order and made into a withered old man of the "get off my lawn!" persuasion--I'd play that guy in an adventure as a wheelchair-bound grappler in an instant, because it fits his concept. (Further concept: the price he paid the hag is every happy memory of his parents, but he cheated her of her price because it turns out he was an urchin raised on the streets. Now the hag has a grudge against, and grudging admiration for, him, and if he ever needs another wheelchair she's likely to price-gouge him twice as hard.)
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2021-01-19, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Combat wheelchairs
Much of what you discussed can more easily and efficiently be handled narratively. Just describe them as being in a wheelchair, but mechanically everything works the same. There is no mechanical difference between being 5' tall or 7' tall. Many of the complaints here seem to be that this was instead made far more difficult by giving mechanical rules, including making the chair better than normal characters.
Also, the listed chairs are given an in-world story of being common enough to be found easily in any city. So the author seems to be directly working against such stories as you suggest.
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2021-01-19, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
Re: Combat wheelchairs
Well, there is actually. From the jumping rules:
High Jump. When you make a high jump, you leap into the air a number of feet equal to 3 + your Strength modifier if you move at least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump. When you make a standing high jump, you can jump only half that distance. Either way, each foot you clear on the jump costs a foot of movement. In some circumstances, your GM might allow you to make a Strength (Athletics) check to jump higher than you normally can.
You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 1 ˝ times your height.
Being 7' tall gives you an extra 3' of vertical reach.
Being in a wheelchair should logically prevent you from jumping.
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2021-01-19, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
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2021-01-19, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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2021-01-19, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2021-01-19, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2015
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2021-01-19, 03:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
Last edited by CharonsHelper; 2021-01-19 at 03:57 PM.
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2021-01-19, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2019
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
SMH y'all have never seen what a talented gnome can do with springs.
Keep the forums alive, for $2 a month. In the arms of an angel....
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2021-01-19, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Combat wheelchairs
A flying teapot, a wheelchair riding drow and a bone horror goes to town.
Which one gathers the most reactions?
Probably not the wheelchair riding drow.
(Of course it is the druid which is a swarm of spiders that bursts into more spiders and webs people and kill them by filling them with spiders(extensive re-fluffing: everything is re-fluffed to spiders): they never went to town because they dislike towns but despite that they got more reactions)Last edited by noob; 2021-01-19 at 04:03 PM.
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2021-01-19, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-01-19, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
can't say i've seen most of the "jumping wheelchair" images, but you sure they aren't just ramping off of something? Saw one that strongly implies the character was using a rock-wall as a halfpipe skateboard-style to ramp up and into the air.
Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
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2021-01-19, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
I forgot about that being the general rule. We did away with it at our table, because all it does it limit the kinds of characters players can make.
edit: More specifically, we had a player who wanted to be a halfling barbarian who wielded a great axe, and we agreed that it was silly to stop that.
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2021-01-19, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2020
Re: Combat wheelchairs
Are you referring to a comic drawn by Luke McKay to promote Idle Champions?
I mean, that looks dope, but I am not sure how seriously to take a series that had featured a swarm druid fighting beekeepers.Last edited by Kvess; 2021-01-19 at 04:33 PM.
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2021-01-19, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2019
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
Keep the forums alive, for $2 a month. In the arms of an angel....
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2021-01-19, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
It's Eberron, not ebberon.
It's not high magic, it's wide magic.
And it's definitely not steampunk. The only time steam gets involved is when the fire and water elementals break loose.
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2021-01-19, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2021-01-19, 05:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-01-19, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2006
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
That is a normative framework of what type of permutations of reality should be considered “normative”
Disabled people are humans, they are people. Let them play with the fantastic. Some disabled people would do as you described, but others know that a normative framework can be dispiriting and disheartening. Figuring out alternatives such as a combat wheel chair is about reheartening the tender heart and reclaiming agency. To except there are many ways to live and how a normative ideal can be an illusion that makes some people miserable.
Representation matters. We create mental models, we humans are mimetic creatures and recognizing there are many ways to succeed and how storytelling mimetics, storytelling imitations / acting is literally how children and adults play. Children’s play dolls all the time, it is how they help gain later skill sets. Now imagine a person in a wheelchair their entire life and they never had a doll of a person in a wheelchair. It is not just aesthetics, it is something more than that, that words find hard to articulate for it is not about description and narration, it is about showing and living as a subject not an object. Different part of brain not language but more visual more action.
Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-01-19 at 05:49 PM.
Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-01-19, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
Also, am I the only one who's noticed that the heavily armored upgrade is essentially useless because you can only have 2, and the battering ram one is just vastly superior?
Originally Posted by Parting RamOriginally Posted by Half CoverOriginally Posted by Armored Plates
Meanwhile the only thing Armored Plates has over it is that it can stack with half cover, and takes the chance of a chair being broken in combat from 20^-3 (1/8000) to 20^-6 (1/640000000) per attack targeting the chair, assuming no crit range expansion or advantage. The chair was already effectively invincible (which is really dumb), so this does nothing.
Mounted sniper and Scattering tacks are entirely pointless (what's preventing you from just using caltrops or a light crossbow?) Additionally, the wheelchair explicitly counts as a mount, so that 25 foot movespeed is really 50 foot move speed with immunity to OA's.
The upgrades of the chair aren't balanced at all against the rest of the game or against each other, and have varying levels of logic and verisimilitude breaking.
Take the spider legs for instance: if you can make spider legs that can lift an entire wheelchair and its occupant and give it spider climb, you should reasonably be able to make a Doc Ock style backpack that weighs and costs less, and lasts for longer. But nope, this is wheelchair exclusive.
And lets not even mention the effects of beacon stones on a setting.
I have no problem with wheelchair bound characters in D&D, but this is just not the way to do it.
Edit: Oh right, merely by owning this chair you have become proficient with tinker's tools. I wonder, if you sell the chair do you lose the proficiency?Last edited by WaroftheCrans; 2021-01-19 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Extra 0 removed
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2021-01-19, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2021-01-19, 06:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
You could, but personally I'd take one that doesn't have an impetus to it. Maybe the free 2/day thunderwave. However, you can stack the platiing, a shield and the ram for +6 to AC, since gear works as normal for the character. Throw in warforged, defense fighting style, +3 modifiers to heavy armor and shield, the shield spell and a cloak of displacement and you got a 38 AC with the enemy having disadvantage. Jokes on monsters, they might as well attack your chair for all their chances of hitting you.
The note at the end is that the shield doesn't protect the chair, which is of course useless, and a holdover from the less overpowered V1 that presumably had an AC and hit points.Last edited by WaroftheCrans; 2021-01-19 at 06:15 PM.
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2021-01-19, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
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2021-01-19, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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2021-01-21, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2019
Re: Combat wheelchairs
Something I've come to realise when any form of representation in fiction is talked about, is that there are two goals that can be striven for, and people aren't always clear about which one they're aiming for.
One is where being in X demographic simply isn't a problem. I still get to play "someone like me", but the setting is such that it doesn't have any negative impact. The other goal is to have those issues come up, and be dealt with by the characters in a way that makes their life harder but which feels rewarding when they defy the odds. Either ignoring or overcoming the petty annoyances that come with being in certain demographics in out world.
But the thing is that similar issues (like racism and sexism) are human constructs and it's much easier to say "they don't exist in this setting, except maybe from obvious bad guys who you can Scorching Ray in the face". With disabilities, it gets a bit muddier.
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2021-01-21, 09:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2015
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- Texas
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Re: Combat wheelchairs
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2021-01-21, 10:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2015
Re: Combat wheelchairs
Seems everyone should get a wheelchair. Including beholders. And giants. And those ocra things with wings.
Orcs with aggressive plus plows? Kobolds hitting twice as hard? Everyone has spider walking? That would make D&D so much better. And we'd all feel better about ourselves not being abelist.
Why not take this to it's conclusion? Make everyone use a wheelchair, and call those who use their legs disabled?
Then rewrite every optimization guide to include wheelchairs. Anything less would be sub-optimized!
Beware of zealots, for they are often boring.
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2021-01-21, 10:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2015
Re: Combat wheelchairs
Last edited by noob; 2021-01-21 at 10:34 AM.
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2021-01-21, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-21, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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