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2022-04-26, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
I was reading some old strips when I came upon this one and thought, if the evil adventuring party can Plane Shift to Celestia, why couldn't Durkon? We know he has that spell and Roy could have helped him coordinate meeting back up with Haley and Belkar.
Obviously this would have spoiled a major narrative arc, but are there any practical reasons why this would not have worked?Avatar by Gurgleflep
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2022-04-26, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-04-26, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
"Precise accuracy as to a particular arrival location on the intended plane is nigh impossible. From the Material Plane, you can reach any other plane, though you appear 5 to 500 miles (5d%) from your intended destination" and Durkon didn't even really know where exactly his intended destination was? Celestia's bound to be huge.
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2022-04-26, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
A) Durkon at that time was extremely passive and rarely took any initiative.
B) Celestia is a near infinite plane. Once he'd plane shifted there, could he find Roy?
C) Living people don't really seem to be allowed on the premises. Durkon, as a deeply religious and lawful man, would not want to disturb the workings of the afterlife and the authorities would escort him out.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2022-04-26, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
What would Durkon have been looking for, if he had Plane Shifted to Celestia to talk to Roy?
"Roy says we should keep tryin' to get 'is body back and resurrect 'im!"
"That was an extremely productive use of a day and a seventh level spell slot."
"Fifth, I'm a cleric."
"Whatever! I have real magic to prepare to actually reconnect with Miss Starshine!"
If Durkon had considered that Roy might know why Vaarsuvius' magic wasn't working on Azure City, presumably he also considered the very real possibility that Roy had been resurrected already and wasn't going to be in Celestia for him to find. And even beyond all of that, he wasn't going to come up with an act on a plan on his own; like Elan, he was looking to Hinjo for leadership, and Hinjo's priorities didn't include "find out what Roy Greenhilt has to say."Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2022-04-26, 03:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
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2022-04-26, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Last edited by KillianHawkeye; 2022-04-26 at 03:36 PM.
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2022-04-26, 03:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
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2022-04-26, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Wow, that sure is a lot of meta-knowledge your "fix" relies on. If Durkon can both time Plane Shifting to be when Roy's body is a bone golem, and know that Roy will have that much more relevant to say than just "I've been in Celestia this whole time," I wonder why he didn't skip the spell and just tell the others the plot of the rest of the book.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2022-04-26, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Longtime lurker, Infrequent poster.
Avalanche in Hell of the Improbability Drive Fan Club
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2022-04-26, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Others gave several excellent reasons, but let me relate it to the real world for a second.
Durkon can't for the same reason that I can list my location as Birmingham, AL, and you can have a car in North America and yet would not be able to just drive on over and have a nice chat with me.
Even ignoring infinite planes, it's a tall order.Last edited by Peelee; 2022-04-26 at 05:44 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-04-26, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-04-26, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-04-27, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
So how did he know where to find V?
Exactly
I mean if my party is clearly suffering without the help of our leader and I had a spell that would let me talk to our leader and ask for advice with only a couple days of travel time, i don't see why i wouldn't try it at least once to see if he can help.Avatar by Gurgleflep
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2022-04-27, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
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2022-04-27, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
I'm guessing it's about the rescue from the semi-elemental plane of Ranch Dressing. But it turns out it helps to have diverse skillset in your team.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2022-04-27, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
That's because the Plane Shift spell sends you 5-500 miles away from your intended destination. However, there still needs to be an intended destination to go to, but that is also explained in that strip. It says that they used Sending to talk to V and get their location.
SO now that begs the question, why didn't Durkon just cast Sending to talk to Roy? That's easier than Plane Shift and has a 95% chance of success when talking to someone on another plane. However, I don't think the rules of D&D were meant to include "talking to a dead person who is living in their afterlife plane" as something the Sending spell could reasonably do, and regardless, I don't think it would make logical sense to work that way in this universe either.
So I think a reasonable answer to "Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to see Roy?" might be "because he had no way of telling where Roy was"Avatar by Gurgleflep
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2022-04-27, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2012
- Location
- Czech Republic
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Last edited by Mike Havran; 2022-04-27 at 01:12 PM.
There must be some sense of order - personal, political or dramatic - and if no one else is going to bring it to this world, I will.
Silent member of Zz'dtri's #698 Scrying Sensor Explanation Club.
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2022-04-27, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
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Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
More important question is: can Roy be killed while in Celestia?
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2022-04-27, 10:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
There was a discussion on 3.x forum a while ago which concluded it is 100% RAW-legal to contact almost anybody (e.g. Deities) with sending but about nobody has ever heard about doing it in real play - not only from the concern about balance, but also because it seems so contrary to the intent to have all those Contact Other Plane etc. if Sending worked just as well.
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2022-04-27, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Imean, theres not much that needs concluding - the text for Sending explicitly allows for cross-planar communication, but the other party is not compelled in any way to answer, so deities or other beings will probably just ignore any unsolicited Sendings. Contact Other Plane, meanwhile, does entitle the caster to answers, which is a significant difference.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-04-28, 12:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
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2022-04-28, 01:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Location
- Imagination Land
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
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2022-04-29, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Yikes, I never thought about all the SPAM that must be sent to people via sending. Anyone who is "familiar with you" can just send messages into your head? It is a third level spell, and might cost 90 gold to hire someone to cast it (which would reduce spam?), but for any celebrity that must get old SUPER fast. I'd have to assume that unsolicited sending makes a person unpopular SUPER fast.
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2022-04-29, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Last edited by Peelee; 2022-04-29 at 01:34 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-04-29, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Also worth noting: how would Durkon have been sure Roy was in Celestial? I mean, yes, Roy SEEMS to be LG but people’s alignments not being what you might expect is a whole thing in OotS. I mean, there was at least discussion of kicking him over to… Mechanus, maybe? It didn’t seem like a super serious threat, but then again what’s the point of scaring someone at THAT stage of the process. Though as an embodiment of LG, maybe the deva couldn’t help herself.
Last edited by Crusher; 2022-04-29 at 09:54 PM.
"You are what you do. Choose again and change." - Miles Vorkosigan
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2022-04-29, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
Second known member of the Greyview Appreciation Society
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2022-04-30, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
I doubt VERY MUCH that "maybe Roy wasn't actually Lawful Good!" ever crossed Durkon's mind, for a second.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2022-04-30, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2022-04-30, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: Why didn't Durkon Plane Shift to Celestia to talk to Roy?
If Durkon were determined to make this happen, the Commune spell is at the same spell level as Plane Shift, and can be used to account for at least 9 different afterlives per cast. Just ask "Is Roy's soul on X afterlife" as your yes or no question, going around the ring until you either find him or run out of afterlives.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”