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Thread: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
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2022-12-16, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Seen in Hollywood Reporter
Originally Posted by Hollywood Reporter
*Cough Cough*
Sorry, got carried away there.
Anyway, I'm very curious to see how the same Amazon who gave us Rings of Powerbutchersinterprets WH40K. If Tolkien is considered problematic for fantasy racism, well, the various factions in WH40K are nothing but cardboard stereotypes played for laughs. That's the point; WH40K is an excuse plot for moving miniatures around a table, not any kind of in-depth social commentary. I forget just how many different models and miniatures which were played for laughs in the 1980s would send the modern twitterati to their fainting couch for smelling salts.
Also, the Empire of Man isn't just militaristic. It's a full-on theocratic despotism which protects humanity through the sacrifice of I forget how many psykers per day to power the Golden Throne.
How do you make a good vs. evil story out of that? There are no good guys in 40,000 CE: In the grim and dark future there is only war. That's the point.
I also find it humorous that they seem to think the T'au are the good guys because of their philosophy of the "greater good". You would think a writer who grew up in the Harry Potter era would have recognized the subtle sarcasm in the motto, which parallels exactly Grindelwald's slogan (written ten years later, but same strand of thought) "For the Greater Good". When you see an organization claiming to be for the greater good, you can bet a year's salary there's going to be a lot of lesser evil genocide along the way.
They're certainly taking on a challenge to update WH40K for modern audiences. I would be greatly surprised if the eventual series bears any relationship to the original game -- but I have hopes that it will at least be entertaining.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2022-12-16, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
The Tau are still "the most good" of the factions at least. They're pretty easily sanitized into just being an authoritarian but otherwise well-meaning government, which from what I recall they were initially presented as before people claimed they clashed with the grim darkness of the 41st millennium and needed to have some mud thrown on them to match the other factions.
But my money would honestly just be on them going for some kind of unambiguous Imperium vs Tyranids ("THE GREATEST THREAT TO THE IMPERIUM") story that is basically just Starship Troopers: The Series with a slightly grittier edge.Last edited by Rynjin; 2022-12-16 at 11:24 AM.
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2022-12-16, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
I would argue that most 40K adaptations just take a part of the setting and largely ignore the rest. I'm thinking of the few dawn of war video games Ive played here. Unlike lord of the rings 40k is not a single cohesive story its a giant mass of contradictions and logic so all you need to do is focus on a relatively small part of it. Can they screw it up? certainly no question but amazon is not a single person and the failure of one property does not guarantee the failure of another.
You mentioned the fear of offending someone and that definitely a possibility depending on where they put their focus (slanesh cough) but you could for instance probably do a story about brave guardsmen/pdf fighting against tyranids without steeping on many toes.
That said I hear vague rumors of some geek property being adapted for a tv/movie series all the time and rarely do they amount to anything so this is way, way to early to be worrying if they are going to do it well or not in my opinion.
edit
I had the same thought but was picturing AliensLast edited by awa; 2022-12-16 at 11:35 AM.
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2022-12-16, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Honestly, if a wh40k show just offends people too much and no one does any wh40k show ever again and it just stays in its lane, I'd consider that one of the better outcomes of a show happening. I'd be fine with that.
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2022-12-16, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
The funny thing is, there's a much better IP for this kind of story. StarCraft is basically SpaceMarines vs. Tyranids vs Eldar, but it threw out all of the grimdark and turned it into something much more in line with contemporary movies.
WH40k really defines itself by the grimdark, over the top machismo and grey on grey morality. It doesn't actually take itself serious but is very good at keeping a straight face. Keep that and it will not work well with new viewers. Throw it out and fans will most likely be unhappy.What did the monk say to his dinner?
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2022-12-16, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
One has to keep in mind the production company behind this series. They almost entirely do small-scale horror. The Ring, It, Blair Witch, etc.
One would assume that this is not going to be a colossal war story involving anything like Tyranids. I'm guessing Inquisition, which is a popular setting within 40k anyway. Lots of material to draw from, too. Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Cain, Darktide, Dark Heresy...Last edited by Eldan; 2022-12-16 at 11:58 AM.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2022-12-16, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Something along the lines of the Space Marine game would be easy enough.
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2022-12-16, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
All this means is that it will probably be a small-scale "Alien-esque" story about Genestealers trying to steal our genes like awa mentioned.
It's gonna be 'Nids. That's basically their only option...except for digging back into the Nurgle well for the 10000000000000000 time in a 40k adaptation as the only Chaos god/faction that both has a distinct identity (Khorne is conceptually boring for a show, and Tzeentch is too "behind the scenes" to adapt well except into a very poltically charged show, which they aren't gonna do) and is "safe for tv" because Slaanesh is too horny.
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2022-12-16, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
If they have any sense they'll focus on the Inquisition or the Imperial Guard (who after rounding to like 12sf are responsible for about 100% of the Imperium's fighting ability*). Start with the human characters, and slowly transition the focus to the
borderline heretical mutant scumgods among men as the series goes on.
I'm not holding out much hope, but maybe like Inquisitor: Martyr I'll be pleasantly surprised. Maybe this time they'll remember to add the middle aged woman in power armour in at the start of the series.
* When you run the numbers Space Marines make so little impact that recruiting them from any major Guard world is the worst thing you can do.
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2022-12-16, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Inquisition is definitely their best bet if they're going for an ensemble cast, you can have great variety of characters in an acolyte team.
As far as public opinion, if anything sinks this it'll be that the IP is just too obscure to generate interest. Just those two paragraphs trying to describe the game as "like a Dungeons and Dragons" is a stark reminder of how niche 40k really is.Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2022-12-16 at 12:31 PM.
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2022-12-16, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-12-16, 12:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
They aren't commies, though. They have a rigid caste system with a hereditary ruling class.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2022-12-16, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
My understanding is that, at least in the latest incarnation, the Ethereals exert a great deal of Brave New World-ish thought control. They don't butcher as casually as the Imperium does, but it's still a rigid oligarchy where anything resembling freedom is sharply curtailed. And it still doesn't stop them from planetary genocide.
So they aren't "good guys" but there's a strong argument they're the least evil faction by WH40K standards. I think the idea being they're the youngest faction and therefore haven't fully grasped the horrors of the Warp and the true darkness of the universe they live in. Sort of like the way humans were back when the Emperor was trying to start his kingdom of peace and rationality before it went all pear-shaped and turned into the rigid theocracy we all know in the 40th millenium.
Respectfully,
Brian P."Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."
-Valery Legasov in Chernobyl
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2022-12-16, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-12-16, 01:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
So I refused to watch RoP on principle and I didn't want to give it even the nominal support of my viewership even if I already have prime. And while I think RoP failure was overdetermined, I do think a large part of it had to do with just not having the rights to half the story and characters they were using to tell their story. This inherently meant they were going to piss off a lore nerd like myself. I don't think that will be the same issue for 40k/GW since it's both less the creation of a single author and still being progress (as much as there's any progress in 40k). There's no equivalent to the Tolkien estate saying 'no you can't use/acknowledge anything from this pile of pre-existing lore'
I've no-interest in the inevitable culture war fight that will spill out over it and social mores and modern audience ad nauseam... but in the grim dark present there is no peace only bickering. I can't wait to see how it relates to Star Wars.
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need", dialed to 11 like everything else in the setting? Castes and commies aren't mutually exclusive.Last edited by Thomas Cardew; 2022-12-16 at 01:42 PM.
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2022-12-16, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Cavill's said before that he really, really wants to do a Horus Heresy adaptation. Doesn't mean that's what this is, but it is a nugget of info.
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2022-12-16, 02:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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I'm not sure why you think this. A show about the internal politics of the Imperium would have the advantage of being cheaper (less need for giant set piece CGI battles) and the format has been shown to be very popular with audiences. Their marketing guys will certainly be happy to call it "Game of Thrones in space." And there's no reason why it would have to be "politically charged", since (like Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon) the politics of the 41st Millennium have nothing to do with real world modern day politics, and the only reason those keep coming up in fantasy/sci-fi shows where they don't belong is because the writers are hacks (and if those people are on the writing staff, they'll shove them in there regardless).
You could quite easily make a show about a conflict between (roll a die twice and pick from below) and have no problem coming up with a reason for the conflict or way in which it can play out, with Tzeentch pulling the strings of one or both sides.
1)The Iquisition
2)The Mechanicus
3)An IG Regiment
4)An admiral in the Navy
5)An admiral in the local SDF
6)A general in the local SDF
7)Another general in the SDF
8)A Space Marine Company
9)The Ecclesiarchy
10)The Administratum
11)Another Space Marine Company
12)A different branch of the Inquisition
13)A planet's local royalty
14)A different inquisitor in the same branch of the Inquisition
15)The Commissariat
16)A slightly heretical cult of the Emperor
17)A Navigator House
Castes are Not Real Communism^TM, just like everything else, mostly on account of communism being really vague when it comes to actual implementation details. Finding two communists who actually agree about what "real communism" is no easy task.Last edited by BloodSquirrel; 2022-12-16 at 02:17 PM.
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2022-12-16, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
So poking around the internet further, there are multiple articles from earlier this year and last year about GW shopping for a producer and distributor for a TV adaptation of the Eisenhorn trilogy. Until further info comes out, thats where I'm putting my money on for this - Cavill could do a wonderful Gregor, and the ensemble nature of a retinue would be very different than the mostly-solo acting he did as Geralt.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
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2022-12-16, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Remember that Amazon relatively recently cancelled The Expanse (which is basically what you're describing), citing cost of production as the main factor. 40k would be even more expensive to produce.
That's not actually what I meant by politically charged here. It's just fantasy politics that is going to involve a lot of Proper Nouns that prospect fans will need to learn, factions, etc. Which wouldn't be so bad if 40k's political lore wasn't so...what's the word...bad? The less they dig into the deep lore of the setting, the better.
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2022-12-16, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
You mean that time where he repressed all knowledge of the Chaos Gods despite several planets showing that a healthy understanding was more effective than blind ignorance?
The best thing the Emperor ever did for humanity was die so that he could become a figure of faith that is actually effective at countering the influence of the ruinous powers. Of course then he messed it up and didn't take Gulliman with him, so now humanity is under the heel of god-tyrants yet again. His ideas, well intentioned as they were, were just incorrect.
Consistent that the Tau have a low warp presence (without the pre-existing knowledge of the Squats) and a highly rational and focused mindset their first proper Chaos cult is going to go very poorly for them. Imagine the Slaaneshi fire caste daring to dig trenches for the experience of it. It'll be utter bedlam.
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2022-12-16, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
In that case, they'd have to pass on a 40k project entirely, as there really isn't a cheaper way to do it short of possibly animating it.
"Don't make 40k like 40k" is the kind of approach that has been taken on several big-name streaming adaptations lately, and it hasn't exactly proven fruitful. 40k that's embarrassed to be 40k is just going to wind up being generic and boring.
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2022-12-16, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
The big difference is 40k can be used for a lot of different things. Some things it does well: grim darkness, cool weapons, interesting broad factions.
Things it does poorly: anything that tries to tell a serious plot.
Trying to make the series "Game of Thrones in space" is, exactly, making "40k that's embarrassed to be 40k". 40k isn't Game of Thrones. It does not have the ability to tell a story like Game of Thrones without toning down the intentionally, PARODIUSLY over-the-top nature of the series when it comes to politics.
You're basically asking Amazon to make Spaceballs: The Series into an Honor Harrington-esque political drama. It just doesn't work.
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2022-12-16, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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It's perfectly possible to make something that has either a serious plot, a political plot, or both while still being broad, bombastic, and melodramatic with over-the top, scenery-chewing characters. In fact, most of what is regarded as "classic" literature is quite ham-fisted by modern standards, and invariably very self-serious. Opera is, by nature, limited in how subtle and nuanced it can be by the need to have the characters loudly singing their emotions out on stage. Shakespeare was written to be performed on stage to common audiences. Epics from ancient history- The Iliad, Beowulf, Gilgamesh- were not written with gritty realism in mind.
In fact, the over-the-top nature of the Imperium and its dysfunctional, fractious, dogmatic, and overzealous institutions is exactly what makes telling a political story so easy. You don't have to work very hard or explain too much detailed history to newcomers to justify the potential conflicts. "The IG General is jealous of the Space Marine Captain because they get all of the glory" is easy to grasp, as is "The Church and the Bureaucrats have different priorities and neither of them are very flexible, so they don't get along too well".
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2022-12-16, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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2022-12-16, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Well.
figure of faith until he blows up into a second Slaanesh and takes all of Terra with him, except instead of being composed of decadence and pleasure, it'll be of humanity's zealotry, paranoia, hatred and so on. So, y'know the Fall of the Eldar, except worse.
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2022-12-16, 05:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
Ah, didn't play the rest of them then, where it turns out that the chapter master of the Blood Ravens has fallen to chaos and half the chapter went with him.
Also they've got some skeletons in the closet wrt who their "lost" primarch is* and how much heresy they've been up to. And how all the other chapters' relics mysteriously turn up in their armoury.
* Given that they're notable for how many psykers they have the speculation is that it's Magnus the Red.
I also think the series will probably be about the Inquisition, because that gives the most license to fiddle with pretty much whatever aspect of the universe it wants.
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2022-12-16, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
If a mainstream Warhammer 40,000 series were to be any success, I think it would be by fighting upstream of many of the current trends of high-budget IP-driven television, specifically by having a highly episodic structure rather than a highly serial one.
Imagine it, if you like, as a suitably grimdark version of classic Star Trek. Make the heroes (heroes in the narrative structure sense, not the moral sense; this is still 40k) people with a reason to trot around the galaxy, be they an Inquisitorial cell, an Imperial Guard regiment, a Rogue Trader fleet, Arbites enforcers, Assassins, or an Administratum audit team. Have every episode be a relatively self-contained story with its own central threat. Imply the vast scale and variety of the Imperium with a different world every episode. Minimize references to greater-scope 40k lore like the Horus Heresy or the Black Crusades, keep the focus on our main cast and their individual adventures. Most importantly, let every major army get an episode with it in focus, as either allies or enemies.
I expect basically none of this advice to be followed; highly-serialized, fanservice-packed melodrama mostly about Space Marines, here we go.The desire to appear clever often impedes actually being so.
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2022-12-16, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
They're just going to make the Imperium the good guys and "justified", aren't they?
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2022-12-16, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: WH40K coming to Amazon stream
The fact of the matter is, he was going to be worshipped anyway, Lorgar or no Lorgar. This way Chaos won't infiltrate basically every Emperor cult. It might have been better if he'd accepted the religious role and wrote the bloody holy book himself (the entire Imperium pretty much runs off heresy at this point).
Plus it's really not certain what will happen when the Emperor does. For all his psychic might there's nothing definitive that makes him akin to the Ruinous Powers. It's possible he'll become more like the Eldar gods, or potentially just die. We know very little about him beyond 'terrifyingly powerful psyker, probably not actually three metres tall'.
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2022-12-16, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Actually, I have an even better idea what the series should be.
Basically Tales from the Crypt but instead of the Cryptkeeper you have Trazyn the Infinite and every story is about one of his exhibits.