Baldur's Gate 3 II: The Urge for a Second Playthrough

[Zevox]

Spoiler: Minthara

Show

It's weird recruiting Minthara. I killed her in my first playthrough by accident. (Didn't know she was recruitable.) So are there only weird, indirect ways of recruiting her, or can you get her in Act I without eradicating The Emerald Grove?

Spoiler: Minthara

Show

Besides working with her to destroy the grove, the only way is knocking her unconscious instead of killing her. Yeah, it's kind of metagamey and you really have to stretch to find a reason to do it in-character. They pretty clearly intended her to be for evil playthroughs only given that's how they launched, and just made her available this way to non-evil ones later due to demand (and people modding it in anyway had some effect on the decision I'd bet).

[Psyren]

Spoiler: Minthara

Show

Besides working with her to destroy the grove, the only way is knocking her unconscious instead of killing her. Yeah, it's kind of metagamey and you really have to stretch to find a reason to do it in-character. They pretty clearly intended her to be for evil playthroughs only given that's how they launched, and just made her available this way to non-evil ones later due to demand (and people modding it in anyway had some effect on the decision I'd bet).

Yeah, I do wish it was less metagamey. Some opportunity to Insight, Detect Thoughts, or use our tadpole and realize

Spoiler

Show

she is totally in thrall to the Absolute in Act 1 and actually hates the cult

would have been a much better way to handle it.

[Cikomyr2]

Yeah, I do wish it was less metagamey. Some opportunity to Insight, Detect Thoughts, or use our tadpole and realize

Spoiler

Show

she is totally in thrall to the Absolute in Act 1 and actually hates the cult

would have been a much better way to handle it.

You could have had her react to the Prism, thats all.

Its forced tho.

[Psyren]

You could have had her react to the Prism, thats all.

Its forced tho.

At that point in the story it's unclear what's in it or how it's protecting you, I don't think that would have been the best route. The... occupant doesn't know her from a hole in the ground unless you ask it to, much further into Act 2. And knowing her,

Spoiler

Show

even if you could have removed the scales from her eyes in Act 1, she'd probably still encourage you to wipe out the Grove so as not to tip off the Absolute.

Even in Act 2, when you can finally extend the Prism's protection to her, she has to either hide in your camp or pretend to be a mindless thrall under your control to keep the ruse going.

[Cikomyr2]

At that point in the story it's unclear what's in it or how it's protecting you, I don't think that would have been the best route. The... occupant doesn't know her from a hole in the ground unless you ask it to, much further into Act 2. And knowing her,

Spoiler

Show

even if you could have removed the scales from her eyes in Act 1, she'd probably still encourage you to wipe out the Grove so as not to tip off the Absolute.

Even in Act 2, when you can finally extend the Prism's protection to her, she has to either hide in your camp or pretend to be a mindless thrall under your control to keep the ruse going.

I actually struggled with this after my comment last night.

Like, why would THIS true soul be given a special chance to save themselves while all the others are disposable?

My best idea is that while others were merely unsure, reluctant and converted, etc.. she was actually ***against*** the Absolute from prior her conversion, and has been harbouring these resentment under her yoke for so long.

You could even have her act a bit irrational and angry in the service of the absolute, and it would be ways for her true personality to try to resist.


But I agree that even temporarily free in act 1, she should act the way you describe. 100% agreed. However, it gives you a better RP reason to spare her life.

[Psyren]

I actually struggled with this after my comment last night.

Like, why would THIS true soul be given a special chance to save themselves while all the others are disposable?

My best idea is that while others were merely unsure, reluctant and converted, etc.. she was actually ***against*** the Absolute from prior her conversion, and has been harbouring these resentment under her yoke for so long.

You could even have her act a bit irrational and angry in the service of the absolute, and it would be ways for her true personality to try to resist.


But I agree that even temporarily free in act 1, she should act the way you describe. 100% agreed. However, it gives you a better RP reason to spare her life.

My headcanon is that it was, as you describe, the fact that she was the only one to not join up remotely willingly. Even if Gut and Ragzlin had some misgivings due to their prior worship of Maglubiyet, I could easily see them voluntarily submitting to implantation to get a leg-up on their existing clan hierarchies and unite multiple clans under their rule.

But the far more likely reason is a lot simpler (and more depressing); anti-goblinoid racism. The idea that a free-willed Ragzlin and Gut might have anything at all to contribute is thus not even considered - not by the Guardian, not by Tav, and not by their companions. Even unequivocally good characters like Halsin, Wyll and Karlach seem pretty dismissive of the goblin clans, seeing them as an unwelcome pestilence at best.

[Keltest]

My headcanon is that it was, as you describe, the fact that she was the only one to not join up remotely willingly. Even if Gut and Ragzlin had some misgivings due to their prior worship of Maglubiyet, I could easily see them voluntarily submitting to implantation to get a leg-up on their existing clan hierarchies and unite multiple clans under their rule.

But the far more likely reason is a lot simpler (and more depressing); anti-goblinoid racism. The idea that a free-willed Ragzlin and Gut might have anything at all to contribute is thus not even considered - not by the Guardian, not by Tav, and not by their companions. Even unequivocally good characters like Halsin, Wyll and Karlach seem pretty dismissive of the goblin clans, seeing them as an unwelcome pestilence at best.

Or maybe its just because only Minthara ever actually separates from the army such that you could actually recruit her. Even on an "infiltrate the cult" playthrough (which is theoretically the only way you were intended to see her) she has to basically be kicked out of her position before you can recruit her.

[Cikomyr2]

Or maybe its just because only Minthara ever actually separates from the army such that you could actually recruit her. Even on an "infiltrate the cult" playthrough (which is theoretically the only way you were intended to see her) she has to basically be kicked out of her position before you can recruit her.

I don't disagree but then why wouldnt we be able to recruit all 3 leaders if we merely knock them out and leave them alive? Why is Minthara rhe only one who survived and got kicked out?

[Keltest]

I don't disagree but then why wouldnt we be able to recruit all 3 leaders if we merely knock them out and leave them alive? Why is Minthara rhe only one who survived and got kicked out?

Because she's in charge and the others arent? Presumably if they live they go join the army that marches off between acts with no further trouble.

This isnt even speculation, this is explicitly what she gets kicked out for.

[Psyren]

Because she's in charge and the others arent? Presumably if they live they go join the army that marches off between acts with no further trouble.

This isnt even speculation, this is explicitly what she gets kicked out for.

If you knock out Gut and Ragzlin that's it though. No dressing-down, no performance review, no trial - they just vanish, oresumably dying offscreen. Not that anyone cares, because goblinoid.

I'm not saying Larian made the wrong choice here, far from it. I just think it would have added depth if the other two got tadpoled at least somewhat willingly to explain why they're beyond saving, and how that makes Minthara different. As it is, it's like - "of course she's rescuable, she's a sexy elf, why wouldn't she be? Don't be silly."

[Errorname]

A weird thing I noticed is that while all the Goblins you meet are basically complete bastards, I actually think it's a 50/50 split between enemies and friendlies with the Hobs? I counted two generic Hobgoblin enemies in my entire playthroughs plus Dror Ragzlin, and there's three friendly Hobgoblin NPCs (Blurg, Kled and a Beggar)

[Keltest]

If you knock out Gut and Ragzlin that's it though. No dressing-down, no performance review, no trial - they just vanish, oresumably dying offscreen. Not that anyone cares, because goblinoid.

I'm not saying Larian made the wrong choice here, far from it. I just think it would have added depth if the other two got tadpoled at least somewhat willingly to explain why they're beyond saving, and how that makes Minthara different. As it is, it's like - "of course she's rescuable, she's a sexy elf, why wouldn't she be? Don't be silly."

I don't understand your point. She was put in as an evil counterpart to Halsin, who was also added very much at the last second due to fan demand. She wasnt originally intended to be recruitable at all that im aware.

[Errorname]

I don't understand your point. She was put in as an evil counterpart to Halsin, who was also added very much at the last second due to fan demand. She wasnt originally intended to be recruitable at all that im aware.

That's a really good point actually. If they'd always planned on the Act 1 Antagonist being a potential recruit the actual construction of the characters and the situation would probably look very different.

[Psyren]

I don't understand your point. She was put in as an evil counterpart to Halsin, who was also added very much at the last second due to fan demand. She wasnt originally intended to be recruitable at all that im aware.

Yeah - and then they chose to change that, also due to fan demand. I'm saying the writing should have been updated too. I don't see what's so controversial or ungrokkable about that.

[bluntpencil]

To be fair, throwaway NPCs that are supposed to be bit parts becoming main characters because the players liked them is very much on brand for a DnD game.

[Keltest]

Yeah - and then they chose to change that, also due to fan demand. I'm saying the writing should have been updated too. I don't see what's so controversial or ungrokkable about that.

The part where you consider the current writing to be insufficient. Random post-launch changes aside, nothing about it felt implausible or inorganic to me.

[Cikomyr2]

If you knock out Gut and Ragzlin that's it though. No dressing-down, no performance review, no trial - they just vanish, oresumably dying offscreen. Not that anyone cares, because goblinoid.

I'm not saying Larian made the wrong choice here, far from it. I just think it would have added depth if the other two got tadpoled at least somewhat willingly to explain why they're beyond saving, and how that makes Minthara different. As it is, it's like - "of course she's rescuable, she's a sexy elf, why wouldn't she be? Don't be silly."

You ascribe agency to Larian where i dont think there was.

FANS asked for Minthara to be recruitable. Larian obliged. There's nothing to say if Fans hadnt obsessed over the goblinoid characters as much as they'd have obsessed over the sexy dark elf then Larian wouldn't have accomodated recruiting them instead.

Fans are the horny ones. Larian just enabled them. Dont blame Larian for going through the path of least resistance instead of trying to make a courageous pro-goblinoid stance.

[Psyren]

You ascribe agency to Larian where i dont think there was.

FANS asked for Minthara to be recruitable. Larian obliged. There's nothing to say if Fans hadnt obsessed over the goblinoid characters as much as they'd have obsessed over the sexy dark elf then Larian wouldn't have accomodated recruiting them instead.

Fans are the horny ones. Larian just enabled them. Dont blame Larian for going through the path of least resistance instead of trying to make a courageous pro-goblinoid stance.

That they seemingly didn't even consider it is exactly what I'm highlighting. I'm not raking them over the coals for it or anything, it's just a mild observation; I'm not about to pull a Hermione and go found the goblinoid version of S.P.E.W. or anything.

Keep in mind that these are the same writers who were extremely thoughtful over the kind of summary dismissal and discrimination Tieflings would be facing in a place like the Sword Coast. The writing team is excellent.

The part where you consider the current writing to be insufficient. Random post-launch changes aside, nothing about it felt implausible or inorganic to me.

What I'm saying is that I'm happy that we're able to recruit Minthara on a good playthrough without cheating or modding anymore, but you're still forced to metagame to do it. I find that unsatisfying; you may not care, and that's fine, we can agree to disagree. I think they could have killed two birds with one stone without much effort here though.

[Anonymouswizard]

Fans are the horny ones. Larian just enabled them.

Larian is definitely horny, have you not seen the bear?

[t209]

So far decided to finish up Shadowheart quest.

Spoiler: Quest spoiler

Show

Finally cheesed positioning by having Astarion (fastest character) initiate the talk, but seems to choose my Drow Bard and Shadowheart for some reason.
Said no and started a fight with me having two elementals as cannon fodder/crowd control.
Quickly choke them at stairs, and elementals did interrupt darkness spell spams…also Astarion casting vine floors and barrage did help along with hypnotic pattern.
Not sure if that’s a bug since Mother Superior seems to get auto knockout.
So got a bummer ending since I let Shadowheart put her parents out of misery.

[LibraryOgre]

So, it's now been only about 12 hours since my last reset.

I don't got much more than that. I'm slightly annoyed because my current idea for a build doesn't mature until 10th level... Swords Bard till 6, Battlemaster 3, then when I hit 10th, respec to bard 5/fighter 5, then add two more levels of fighter.

Last run, I liked making Astarion into an assasin 3/gloomstalker 5/assassin to end, focusing on ranged. I've decided to just toss any semblance of story to the wind and make Shadowheart a Life Cleric ASAP. When I hit 6th level, I respec Wyll into Ancients Paladin 1/Warlock 5/Paladin to End. I decided to make Gale a Transmuter, because while I don't like using Gale, I figure if I rebuild him a bit to be proficient in Medicine, as a transmuter he can make things for the party (possibly doubling my alchemy output, for example) even while staying in camp. Karlach remains a beast barbarian, Lae'zel a battlemaster.

With another Druid in the party, eventually, I'm considering getting weird with Halsin... Moon Druid 4, Way of the Elements Monk 4, then the rest Druid. How much of his monk stuff can be used in animal form? I know that, if he's armorless going in, he can use his Wisdom to AC in animal form. What about his Elements Spells? Anything else that a naked bear/monk can do?

[Anonymouswizard]

Ended up restarting again as well, back to Halfling for me. Sorcerer as well, with my feats already mostly planned out (level 4: Actor, level 8: +2 CHA, level 12: +2 to DEX or CON). There's just something about being a chubby little girl running around setting people on fire and/or stabbing them that does it for me.

No joke, I managed to arrive on the beach, level up, cast Mage Armour, and immediately die to a wild magic surge. Now that's more of what I was looking for from Wild Magic! Hopefully they didn't take the more ridiculous surges 5e had, it'll be a long timr until dropping a fireball spell on the party artillery isn't basically a combat ender.

Although my second surge was an Entangle, which made things harder in a challenging way.

[tonberrian]

Honor mode with wild magic sorcerer sounds hilarious.

[Anonymouswizard]

Honor mode with wild magic sorcerer sounds hilarious.

Wild magic is great, but I wouldn't want one save until the damaging effects become annoying rather than deadly. The fireball is toned down to just giving the Burning condition to everything in an area, but spike growth is deadly at low levels when you need to reposition.

[diplomancer]

Honor mode with wild magic sorcerer sounds hilarious.

You have to be a brave man for that.

The honour mode I went with in the end, (just got to act III) goes the opposite way. I'm just flooding the enemy with summons and undead. Gale is a Necromancer, I'm a Spores Druid (this is the run where I want to kill everyone! So many corpses for reanimating! Was terribly disappointed to find out the goblins all disappear the day after the raid, I wanted to kill them too ), if need be I'd have Shadowheart start raising dead too, but so far I'm just going with Minthara and Laezel (Laezel respecced as a Monk/Thief, the combination is so powerful it's hard to not use it!). Wyll and Karlach left, I killed Astarion for trying to bite me.

I had some tough fights early on, but now with around 20 creatures at my side the fights have been cakewalks. Aid is crazy when it can affect everyone

[LibraryOgre]

Anyone have comments on Monk/Druid? It's a combo I always wish worked, but never quite does.

[Psyren]

Anyone have comments on Monk/Druid? It's a combo I always wish worked, but never quite does.

I haven't tried this combination in BG3, sorry. Everything depends on how they coded it.

[Keltest]

I haven't tried this combination in BG3, sorry. Everything depends on how they coded it.

Ive done barbarian/druid, and unfortunately you lose the unarmored defense when wildshaped. Barring specific items that they coded to work with it, I think wildshape is just a complete overriding of the stat block, not picking and choosing which features are applicable.

[diplomancer]

Ive done barbarian/druid, and unfortunately you lose the unarmored defense when wildshaped. Barring specific items that they coded to work with it, I think wildshape is just a complete overriding of the stat block, not picking and choosing which features are applicable.

I have read (but not confirmed) that Monk/Druid Unarmoured Defense works, but you have to not be wearing armour when you wildshape. I don't know about the Monks flurry of blows and attacks. Maybe I will get some Monk levels to my Druid just to see how it works.

[LibraryOgre]

I have read (but not confirmed) that Monk/Druid Unarmoured Defense works, but you have to not be wearing armour when you wildshape. I don't know about the Monks flurry of blows and attacks. Maybe I will get some Monk levels to my Druid just to see how it works.

I'm might dig up one of my abandoned runs and fiddle about with it.