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2013-11-06, 12:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
RAI, one supposes.
RACSD would certainly suggest that, and it doesn't seem too difficult to write it up. Hmm.
Distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round. If you have more than one mode of movement, the maximum speed is that for the mode used to begin jumping, usually land or swim speed.
Sadly, that's not what RAW says, so oh well!Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-11-06, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
I guess an argument could be made that since it says your maximum movement for the round, not a round, it already uses whatever movement speed applies during that particular round. What I find to be far more interesting is the problem with trying to use multiple movement types as part of the same move action. I mean, if I jump into the water when I've still got plenty of movement left in the round according to my land speed, but I have a much lower swim speed, what happens? I'm pretty sure the rules just don't say anything about it, and this isn't a gap easily filled by common sense.
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2013-11-06, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
So you are saying that a creature flapping its wings while jumping has no effect? That does not fall under RACSD IMHO. Example:
After using its standard action a creature without wings and 30ft speed moves 20 ft and jumps 20 ft. It only arrives in the next round after using another move action.
Again after using its standard action a creature with wings (60 ft fly speed) and 30ft speed moves 20 ft and jumps 20 ft. This creature is supposed to move in the same way as the creature above without aid from its wings?
How about creatures with wingless flight?Last edited by Andezzar; 2013-11-06 at 02:19 AM.
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2013-11-06, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
No indeed, but if you're flying, you're no longer jumping: you fall differently, no longer follow any standard trajectory, and are not limited by Jump check results in height ascended or distance covered. However, you are limited by flight maneuverability in ways that may be more restrictive than jumping.
Again after using its standard action a creature with wings (60 ft fly speed) and 30ft speed moves 20 ft and jumps 20 ft. This creature is supposed to move in the same way as the creature above without aid from its wings?
How about creatures with wingless flight?Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-11-06, 06:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
The thing is some wings grant a bonus to jump checks (raptoran, dragonborn with wing aspect, dragon wings feat). With most options it is possible to get a higher fly speed than your land speed. So to actually use the jump bonus you would most likely need to waste one move action due to hang time, by your interpretation.
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2013-11-06, 06:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-11-06, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Noticed something due to a discussion on multiclass XP penalties linking back to an older thread.
Dragon Devotee (and, IIRC, other PrCs) can grant Sorcerer spellcasting without having any levels in sorcerer. Or regular old Dragons have racial sorcerer spellcasting ability after a certain point in their development.
Battle Sorcerer is a variant class from Unearthed Arcana which decreases spells known and spells per day.
So, yeah, what happens when someone with sorcerer spellcasting that has no levels in Sorcerer takes a level in Battle Sorcerer?
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2013-11-06, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but there's an isssue with determining the offhand damage for double weapons.
The rules are quite clear that when wielding a double weapon, you can use the TWF rules for an extra attack. For the purposes of calculating attack bonuses, you treat the primary end of the weapon as a one-handed weapon, and the other offhand end is a light weapon. But the rules are very explicit that this is only for calculating attack penalties.
For the purposes of damage, you are wielding a double weapon with both hands. According to PHB p. 134, you get x1.5 Str bonus on your primary attack. You are also wielding the other offhand end of the weapon with both hands. But there's a contradiction in the rules:
"Off-Hand Weapon: When you deal damage with a weapon in your off hand, you add only 1/2 your Strength bonus.
Wielding a Weapon Two-Handed: When you deal damage with a weapon that you are wielding two-handed, you add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus."
Your non-primary end is both a two-handed attack and an offhand attack... so which damage bonus do you get, x1.5 Str or x0.5 Str?Last edited by Darrin; 2013-11-06 at 03:07 PM.
Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
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Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
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2013-11-06, 03:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Is there?
Double Weapons
Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaffs, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
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2013-11-06, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
The problem is the text only discusses one-handed and light weapon in regards to calculating attack penalties. It doesn't discuss calculating damage, which is detailed on page 134 of the PHB.
Actually, the strongest argument for treating damage as one-handed and light comes from the text of the Power Attack feat, PHB p. 98:
"Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon."
This is the only place in the Core rules where the text makes a general statement about how you treat double weapons outside the immediate context of calculating attack penalties.
The Rules Compendium might clarify this a bit:
"A creater can fight using both ends of a double weapon as if using two weapons, incurring all the normal penalties associated with two-weapon fi ghting while wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon."
However, "penalties" used here again only refers to calculating attack penalties. I'm not sure if dropping the Str modifier down to x0.5 really counts as a "penalty". Yes, it's worse than x1.5 or x1.0, but you're changing a ratio rather than subtracting a specific modifier expressed as a whole number.Handbooks:
Shax's Indispensable Haversack, TWF OffHandbook
Builds:
Archon of Nine, Jellobomber, King of Pong, Lightning Thief
Spells:
Druidzilla, Healbot, Gish
Iron Chef:
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2013-11-10, 01:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Blackguard's fiendish servant gets SR equaling class level +5 when the blackguard is at character level 19. The fiendish servant does have the fiendish template, so it has SR of HD +5. If the blackguard has 8 or fewer levels in blackguard, the servant gets more SR from being fiendish than it does from the blackguard. Even if he does finish, the horse will always have more SR.
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2013-11-11, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
3 Mysteries have conflicting information (all fixed by Ari in the Shadowcaster fixes ENWorld thread)
Truth Revealed: For revealing other information about the creatures studied via the effect, the text mentions minutes but the table mentions rounds. Text triumphs table, but Ari suggests the opposite.
Warp Spell: Has a Will save entry but uses the counterspell action which doesn't force a save. Ari's fix: Saving Throw: None
Greater Life Fades: Range: Long. Target: one living creature/level in a 20-ft.-radius spread
Opening sentence: "Your touch deals 1d6 points of nonlethal damage per caster level (maximum 20d6) and causes the subject to become exhausted for 1 round per caster level."Last edited by peacenlove; 2013-11-11 at 06:18 PM.
Complete Shadow Magic! for Pathfinder Rules. (Google Docs PDF)
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2013-11-11, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
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2013-11-11, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
I forget when exactly Wild Shape got errata'd to stop functioning like Polymorph, but it was some time late in 3.5's life (and this article leads me to believe it was early in 2006). My 2003 Player's Handbook certainly has the old "this ability functions like polymorph" line, and I am quite sure that the big Polymorph changes came after Libris Mortis (which was released in 2004).
So Corrupted Wild Shape was at least functional at one point.Last edited by Karnith; 2013-11-11 at 08:18 PM.
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2013-11-11, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Nar Demonbinder's inimical casting allows you to cast spells like magic circle against good as any of the other magic circle spells. This also allows you to replace the effect of blasphemy with that of the other alignment equivalents. Unfortunately, because you are in the center of these effects, you can only use two of the four as according to your alignment, possibly as few as none.
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2013-11-11, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
or none if you are true neutral. nar demonbinders also do not have an alignment req (which isn't dysfunctional, but still is sort of weird)
Last edited by Venger; 2013-11-11 at 11:30 PM.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
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2013-11-11, 11:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
I'm collating data that was not, originally, my own. You see, I just started reading Captnq's Weapon Handbook and noticed some amusing messages in the introductory rant:
Originally Posted by Weapon Handbook Readme
Originally Posted by Gauntlet v1.03
Originally Posted by SRD
Thoughts?Last edited by bekeleven; 2013-11-11 at 11:42 PM.
Tome of the Holy Grail: Draw power from legendary heroes.|The Dashing Dualist: Two weapons. One happy ending.|The Shifter: Be all that you can be.|The Professional: Mundanes, competent.|The Wuxia Fighter: Mundanes, Wacky.|The Generalist: Do literally everything.
Skill Trick Compendium|Cantrips for Days|Complete Control Revamped: Customize everything.|Bek's Book of Blissful Bewitchment: Who wants to spend their life in a musty cave?
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2013-11-11, 11:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
"We have sent many to Hell, to smooth our way," said I, "and we are standing yet and holding blades. What more?"- Roger Zelazny, This Immortal
Avatar Image: The Great Wave off Kanagawa by Hokusai; bitmap version by me.
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2013-11-11, 11:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Tome of the Holy Grail: Draw power from legendary heroes.|The Dashing Dualist: Two weapons. One happy ending.|The Shifter: Be all that you can be.|The Professional: Mundanes, competent.|The Wuxia Fighter: Mundanes, Wacky.|The Generalist: Do literally everything.
Skill Trick Compendium|Cantrips for Days|Complete Control Revamped: Customize everything.|Bek's Book of Blissful Bewitchment: Who wants to spend their life in a musty cave?
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2013-11-12, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Okay, I got two new spell related ones for you, if they have already been mentioned I apologize.
Firstly, we have Seed of Undeath from Complete Mage. This spell will turn the affected creature into a Zombie automatically under your command when the creature dies before the spell expires. Where it's Dysfunction begins is the fact that Create Undead, is an [Evil] spell, and Seed of Undeath is not, so a Good Cleric, Wizard or Sorcerer can still make undead minions too!
Secondly from the Spell Compendium, we have the Light of Lunia, and it's more powerful variants.
The spell has a Range of Medium, but its Target and Effect is: You and Upto two rays. The spell description says that when the spell is discharged as a ray, that they have a fixed range of only 30 feet. A spell you can cast on yourself from up to 100ft +10ft/Level away seems odd, no?Last edited by One Step Two; 2013-11-12 at 07:18 PM.
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2013-11-12, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
This might not be a dysfunction but just common sense saying wth,
But a thri-keen or any appropriately armed creature can wield a tower shield in every arm.
This gets to be goofy if you gorrilalons(?) blessing them so that they can hold two more.
How can six tower shields fit into a 5ft square?
Edit: forgot how to spell the spells name, and AFB.Last edited by Menzath; 2013-11-12 at 07:18 PM.
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2013-11-12, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Why would you wield more than one Tower Shield? You only get one shield bonus and for concealment you only need to hide behind one shield.
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2013-11-12, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
well you can use one for cover, one for AC, and multi-weapon fight with the rest
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2013-11-12, 07:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-11-12, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
yeah stupid taking cover as an action, but there is enough action economy cheese as well as feats (one pointed out ty) that being able to use a tower shield as cover and attack with four more isn't the issue, just that HOW do you fit all of them and a character into a freakin 5ft square AND are allowed to wield them all. utter rules madness.
I mean you have more matter in a space than there is space!
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2013-11-12, 08:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
If you really want to cram things in to a 5' square, look in Complete Warrior at the Swarmfighting feat. It lets multiple creatures of small size stand and fight in the same 5' square, with no stated limits as to how many. Unfortunately, the same feat appears in Races of Faerun, and in RoF they specify that you can only fit 4 small creatures in a 5' square (and creatures one size category smaller than small count as half a creature for this).
However, that brings up another dysfunction. The RoF Swarmfighting feat says that "Up to four creatures of Small size may occupy a 5-foot square (creatures one size category smaller count as half a creature)." Two issues: It doesn't state anything about creatures two or more size categories smaller (do they all count as full creatures? By RAW, yes), and second the prerequisites state that you must be "Size Small". Not "Size Small or smaller", just "Size Small". According to that, creatures smaller than small cannot get the feat, yet it specifically states how the rules work for creatures one size smaller than Small.
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2013-11-12, 09:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
hah a reduce person spell would make them loose the feat, how quaint. and also full of crazy shenanigans.
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2013-11-12, 10:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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2013-11-12, 11:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Double Weapons
Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaffs, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
The character can also choose to use a double weapon two handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. He or she incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat.See my Extended Signature for my list of silly shenanigans.
Anyone is welcome to use or critique my 3.5 Fighter homebrew: The Vanguard.
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2013-11-12, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!
Fax_Celestis:
...according to...?
edit: Yes, on page 81
p.s. Ksheep: The FAQ may not be RAW, but it is certainly official, which generally puts it in the quasi-useful zone that exists below errata, but above random stranger on the internets opinion. If doubt exists, you might as well rely on the FAQ until you can find acceptable proof in one of the books to follow.