Test of Spite [D&D 3.5]

[mikethepoor]

It'd be even better if, after falling, I could lift said chandelier and beat my opponent with it.

EDIT: Also, a question for those in charge of rules/sheets. Are wizards allowed to know more than their allotment of "free" spells (those gained by level-up)?

[Signmaker]

Opinion time: If I've got a method of affecting a creature type in addition to humanoid with an ability, which one would be more advantageous? I'm currently leaning towards either outsider or magical beast.

[Claudius Maximus]

Also, a question for those in charge of rules/sheets. Are wizards allowed to know more than their allotment of "free" spells (those gained by level-up)?


Prepared casters should buy every spell they expect to need. Getting more will be ludicrously difficult.

This suggests that you can. You must pay, however. I would defer to Tidesinger's ruling on how much it costs, but I it should at least be 50 gp per spell level plus the cost of scribing (if applicable).

[PinkysBrain]

Opinion time: If I've got a method of affecting a creature type in addition to humanoid with an ability, which one would be more advantageous? I'm currently leaning towards either outsider or magical beast.
I doubt many are rolling outsiders, unless they want to optimize inherent SR or they bought a casting of the spell which turns you into a half fiend. Construct might be good ... Warforged is a great way to get a lot of immunities on the cheap with the Greater Construct Essence spell.

[sofawall]

Maybe half the cost of a scroll of the spell, plus scribing? You buy the scroll, scribe it, and sell it back for half what you bought it.

[imperialspectre]

EDIT: Also, a question for those in charge of rules/sheets. Are wizards allowed to know more than their allotment of "free" spells (those gained by level-up)?

While I'm not actually in charge, I've built enough wizards at this point to know the rules. :)

You get all of your normal spells from level-up, plus one scribed "per level" (I've assumed that meant per spell level, since otherwise wizards would have even MORE tricks up their sleeves).

If you have a feature that gives you more spells (Elven Generalist, Collegiate Wizard), those features function as normal.

If you want to have more spells than that, I believe you have to either buy the scroll or pay the scribing cost. Since the above means that bare-bones you get 5 spells per spell level, or 7 with Elven Generalist, I haven't experienced a lack of spells known. :)

[Signmaker]

I doubt many are rolling outsiders, unless they want to optimize inherent SR or they bought a casting of the spell which turns you into a half fiend. Construct might be good ... Warforged is a great way to get a lot of immunities on the cheap with the Greater Construct Essence spell.

I kind of like the idea of targeting familiars or summons, which is why I'll probably go with Magical Beast.

[PinkysBrain]

Who'd be made enough to leave their XP loss waiting to happen wander around? :)

[Claudius Maximus]

Maybe half the cost of a scroll of the spell, plus scribing? You buy the scroll, scribe it, and sell it back for half what you bought it.

This doesn't work. Copying a spell from a scroll to a spellbook expends the scroll.

I've always been unclear on what that one spell scribed per level line meant. Is it scrolls scribed? Spells scribed into your spellbook from other sources? A minimum on where you can put your 2 free spells? (You could conceivably skip level 4 by putting all your spells into 3rd level or lower, then putting them into levels 5 and higher as normal, for instance). I'd like a clarification.

[Signmaker]

Who'd be made enough to leave their XP loss waiting to happen wander around? :)

Hexblades?

[sofawall]

This doesn't work. Copying a spell from a scroll to a spellbook expends the scroll.


Bluff check?

Anyway, there's me not knowing the rules again. I guess one of these days I should actually play a wizard, instead of just sorcerers.

[imperialspectre]

To be honest, playing a wizard generally feels kinda like cheating to me. Sometimes I can't hear my conscience over the sound of how awesome my build is, but still. :smalltongue:

[sofawall]

I dislike playing spellcasters, really. My party thinks Rage is still pretty neat stuff, and are almost exclusively Tier 4 one-trick ponies. I find it's too easy to Win At Life as a spellcaster.

[mikethepoor]

Tide, a couple of questions:

First, can wizards acquire more spells known besides their level-up ones? If so, how much does that cost?

Second, what kind of cost is attached to acquiring corpses of unusual sizes (Tiny or smaller, Huge or larger)?

EDIT: Third, are we permitted to create/control advanced versions of minions?

[Claudius Maximus]

While we're asking questions: Can an Archivist learn Initiate spells?

Also, I would like a clarification about that "one spell scribed per level" rule. What does that mean?

Finally, what's your ruling on Rainbow Servant? Does it give full spellcasting? I personally say no, since the example RS loses caster levels, but it's your call.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Finally, what's your ruling on Rainbow Servant? Does it give full spellcasting? I personally say no, since the example RS loses caster levels, but it's your call.

And the example Abjurant Champion has Mage Armor. WotC example characters are a joke.

[Claudius Maximus]

And the example Abjurant Champion has Mage Armor. WotC example characters are a joke.

That's an example of them forgetting their own rules. Mage Armor should be Abjuration anyway...

In the case of the Rainbow Servant, the character agrees with the chart and otherwise looks pretty solid. I think it's more likely that they decided to change the Rainbow servant to 6/10 casting and forgot to go back to the text. The fact that all the class features are lined up with the dead spellcasting levels also suggests that it's intended.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Is the Wild Mage + Practiced Spellcaster trick allowed?

[Doc Roc]

I'm going to actually say that chart trumps table for Rainbow Servant, as the sage suggests, but sacred fist gives full bab.

Wizards buy scrolls. Simple as that. You can then scribe the suckers.

I haven't found a system I like for corpse-purchases yet, or advanced minions.
For now, however, if you can make it, and you're fine declaring yourself as a minion-mancer, go for it. Cost per corpse is 1k/HD, generally. Templates that allow the retention of special attacks are exception only.

[Doc Roc]

Is the Wild Mage + Practiced Spellcaster trick allowed?

Yes, it is allowed.

[Claudius Maximus]

What about the Archivist and initiate spells? Can initiate spells be gained through Extra Spell (in general)?

Also, I was wondering how you would handle things like Consumptive field or Necrocarnum. Can these be used as all day buffs if you have the fuel and the duration is long enough? How do we fuel these abilities? Can we buy animals like rats or something? How much would that cost?

What's your stance on Versatile spellcaster? Can you use metamagic with spell levels you don't have with it?

What about Sanctum Spell, Earth Spell, etc.? Can you use them with Extra Slot to get spell levels you can't normally access?

Finally, is Anyspell OK for Archivists?

[Doc Roc]

You come in with all day buffs. You don't come in with all the pre-conditions satisfied. No pre-charged consumptive fields.

Anyspell is over-ridden by the modern version in the Spell Compendium which is useless to archivists.

Which initiate spells do you want?

Necrocarnum is generally fine, since it's kinda... important to the balance of the incarnum system

Early entry is permitted, but versatile can only generally crack spells into One-Level-Higher.

Sliding extra slot is ridiculously difficult to justify under RAW, much less RAW. Don't try it.

[Claudius Maximus]

You come in with all day buffs. You don't come in with all the pre-conditions satisfied. No pre-charged consumptive fields.
Just to be clear, you're saying that one can't surround oneself with bunnies before casting Persistent Greater Consumptive Field in the morning? Could someone use a Bead of Karma before casting it? Can we do anything before casting all-day buffs?


Which initiate spells do you want?

Tide only:
My idea was to strap a bunch of rats to myself and cast Battletide on them during the buff rounds, thus auto-quickening all my 5th and lower spells. It only works if you approve the spell and allow me to buy rats, though. I was also thinking about Slime Hurl as a tactic against Antimagic Field users.

Sliding extra slot is ridiculously difficult to justify under RAW, much less RAW. Don't try it.

I think you mean RAI in the second case. I wasn't actually considering using it; rather it was just something that occurred to me that I was curious about. Sorry if I annoyed you with my questions.

[Doc Roc]

Not annoyed with you, frustrated that there are holes so deep in the system. I mean, I know about them, but out-of-sight-out-of-mind. I'm kinda rusty on my kung-fu.

No bunnies for consumptive field.

Page cites on those spells will help me.

[Claudius Maximus]

Tide:
Battletide is on PGtF 99. Slime Hurl is in Champions of Ruin, on page 35.
What about the other actions before all days, like the bead?

[Doc Roc]

bead is fine.

[Signmaker]

ohcrapsecondpage

Expect a Dragonfire build. soon.

[Doc Roc]

second page?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

second page?Bump, basically.

[Doc Roc]

Sheet reviewers, how is that long haul coming along?

[Signmaker]

Are there any items that increase your effective cleric level for turning/rebuking? I've found one in Libris Mortis, but it's not quite enough for my purposes. Dragons have....a lot of hit die.

Edit: I've managed +8.

[Claudius Maximus]

Sheet reviewers, how is that long haul coming along?

I've checked 3 of the 7 submitted sheets. Of the unchecked sheets, one of them is my own character, so I can't very well check that one, and one belongs to Olo's character, against whom I'm having a match right now. None of the others have been marked/claimed by the other sheet checkers, so I don't know if they're in progress or what. I may work on Sharnian's Warforged missile character next, but it'll have to wait till tomorrow because I have to teach Greek today.

Edit: Sheet checkers only:
I'll check Olo's character after my match with him. I've labeled it in the email account. I have reason to believe it's a Rainbow Servant with full casting, so you shouldn't bother checking it anyway since it'll have to go through some revisions.

[Doc Roc]

I'll edit in a note about the chart>table rainbow servants. They're just too darn good anyway. They now lose caster levels at first and second. Tell me if you think this is enough.

[Claudius Maximus]

Are there any items that increase your effective cleric level for turning/rebuking? I've found one in Libris Mortis, but it's not quite enough for my purposes. Dragons have....a lot of hit die.

Edit: I've managed +8.

I can think of:
Phylactery of Undead Turning +4
Scepter of the Netherworld +3
Sacred Armor +2
Sacred Shield +2
Ephod of Authority +1 (turning only)

I'm sure there's more too.

[Signmaker]

Caught the first two, as well as Flametouched Iron Holy Symbol. Where are the others from?

[Claudius Maximus]

Caught the first two, as well as Flametouched Iron Holy Symbol. Where are the others from?

Ooh, I missed Flametouched Holy Symbol. I don't think about Eberron enough. Sacred is from BoED and the Ephod is from MIC. It's part of an item set.

[Doc Roc]

Added bonus: You insta-kill most necropolitans, I believe.

[sofawall]

Sheet reviewers, how is that long haul coming along?

My computer with all my resources died... Therefore, it'll be a while before I'm useful again :(

[Claudius Maximus]

I'll edit in a note about the chart>table rainbow servants. They're just too darn good anyway. They now lose caster levels at first and second. Tell me if you think this is enough.

Your proposal results in 5 lost CLs, which doesn't really change all that much for the ToS. A Warmage or Beguiler RS 10 would still get access to all Cleric spells of 4th level or lower. He just has slightly less spells per day and a lower CL. In the long run, this does prevent access to 8th level spells, though. I would be fine with going by the chart, but I wouldn't mind this slight cut to the RS's power either.

[Doc Roc]

I mean that they are now 8/10 casters who lose at first and second. After all, by late game, it's easy to get access to the cleric spells you might desire.

[Signmaker]

Added bonus: You insta-kill most necropolitans, I believe.

Cept I don't turn/rebuke undead. =/

It would be nice to scream "THE POWER OF (insert diety/cause here) COMPELS YOU!" though.

[Doc Roc]

Okay, we need to stat out greyskull as a deity. I know it's not even close to fanon, much less canon, but...

[9mm]

Roy's done; not sure why I finished him but whatever.

[Signmaker]

Roy's done; not sure why I finished him but whatever.

The protagonist?

[9mm]

The protagonist?

not of OoTS... but his last name is Harper, so yeah.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Do Swift Action spells become free actions if quickened? And if so, can you quicken Arcane Spellsurged spells to theorectically get like a dozen spells on your opponent?

And when you say Fusion is banned, are you referring to Arcane Spell Fusion, and Greater Arcane Spell Fusion?

[Signmaker]

Do Swift Action spells become free actions if quickened? And if so, can you quicken Arcane Spellsurged spells to theorectically get like a dozen spells on your opponent?

And when you say Fusion is banned, are you referring to Arcane Spell Fusion, and Greater Arcane Spell Fusion?

fuuu....sion! HAAAAAAH! (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/fusion.htm)

[lvl 1 sharnian]

So my tactic is legal then?

[Signmaker]

So my tactic is legal then?

Did not say that. Also, I don't believe it says anywhere that quickened swift spells are free actions. This be my reference:


Quicken Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit

Casting a quickened spell is an swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. You may cast only one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round action cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Casting a quickened spell doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
Special

This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

darn oh well saves me feat space

[Doc Roc]

Quickening swifts does nothing, sadly. :(

[9mm]

Quickening swifts does nothing, sadly. :(

Thank god for small favors!

[Doc Roc]

Yeah, those are the only kind I've been able to offer recently, to be honest. Man, I'd really like to see a well-built wilder running around... Anyone up to that?

[Claudius Maximus]

Psionics aren't my thing, really.

Anyone know of any good Cleric spells for pure damage? Flesh Ripper would be nice if it didn't require me to be both undead and an outsider, which I don't even think is possible...

Tide, any verdict on those spells?

[Doc Roc]

not yet, bug me tomorrow. Streamers is hilarious for literally Pure Damage nuking.

I have some things I'd like to see tested in the ToS. Talk about them soon.

[Jalor]

Neither the Planning nor Undeath domains are listed as available to Clerics of Wee Jas. They fit, flavor-wise, so could a Cleric of Wee Jas take them anyway?

Also: Can you White Raven Tactics yourself?

[Doc Roc]

Yes but just once.

Planning is not open to Wee Jas. Undeath is.
No free extend for you.

[Jalor]

Okay, Undeath and Magic it is then. Is the Heroic Surge feat from Age of Mortals (Dragonlance campaign setting) legal?

Edit: The Church Inquisitor prestige class says "a lawful good church". The whole class seems more LN than LG to begin with, and it seems fitting that Wee Jas's church would have a similar organization. Could I take the PrC as a Cleric of Wee Jas?

Edit II: Wait, I'm also dipping Contemplative for the bonus domain. What domains outside of core will Wee Jas grant?

[Claudius Maximus]

How could I forget about Streamers? It's one of my favorite spells, and certainly my favorite to maximize.

Tide: Since it's tomorrow for me, I'll go ahead and bug you again. I have a few more spells I'm considering:
I'm thinking of using some Bard spells (via Divine Bard). They are as follows: Zone of Silence, Celerity, Otto's Irresistable Dance, Greater Invisibility as a 4th level spell, Sonorous Hum as a 2nd level spell, Infernal Threnody, Hormonic Chorus, and Spell Theft. I'm unclear on whether or not I can affect myself with Harmonic Chorus, so I'd like a ruling on that. I'm also trying to get Nondetection as a 3rd level spell via Slayer of Domiel.
Also, what's your stance on spells that last 36 hours or more? Can we have them up as all day buffs from "yesterday" without spending our spell slots for "today"?

[Doc Roc]

Yes, but any further back than that and the hounds strip your buffs. Generally, play fair is a good rule.

Alignment requirements are not ever waived. The one you're worried about is irrelevant though, because you can be a LG cleric of Wee Jas. I play them all the time. Cool flavor to them.

[Doc Roc]

No on anything from Slayer or Apostle of Peace. The rest are fine. I have no idea about HC, sorry Max.

[Jalor]

What domains outside of core will Wee Jas grant?
Asking again. Also, how do we decide hit points? Rolling or average?

[Doc Roc]

Max first then rolled. Isn't that in the rules on the first postish?

[Jalor]

Max first then rolled. Isn't that in the rules on the first postish?

Nope. Where should I roll it? Rolls don't work on this board.

[Doc Roc]

Where-ever you like. We trust you. There's a thread over in PbP just for lonely dice rolls.

[ex cathedra]

Max first then rolled. Isn't that in the rules on the first postish?

Uh, what?

The last however many times this was asked over the course of this 8x-page thread, the answer was max-then-average. I never recall rolled coming up.

[Claudius Maximus]

I was acting under the impression that we got average HP, and all my characters and the characters on the sheets I checked have average + max for first level.

I forgot about this, but now that I think about it I seem to recall you saying that we get less than average HP, e.g. 3 per d6.

Now I'm confused.

[sofawall]

I'm a fan of average myself.

[Signmaker]

I've been told rolls in AIMchat, but max+average means that my bad luck won't laugh at me so much.

[Doc Roc]

Holy crap, apparently I'm an idiot. Let's do average from here on out :))

[ex cathedra]

Holy crap, apparently I'm an idiot. Let's do average from here on out :))

And you front-paged it, so hopefully this won't come up again. :smallsmile:

[Doc Roc]

Nooo, of course that wasn't entirely due to my own forgetfulness.

How many matches are currently being run? I've managed to basically automate myself entirely out of the process, so I have no idea! It's really rather exciting.

[Jalor]

Another question: Can I convert the Inquisition domain into Knowledge Devotion and then take Travel Devotion? The book makes it sound like what you can't do is grab two unrelated Devotions as feats, not get one instead of a domain and an unrelated one as a feat.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Anyone dare challenge anyone of these guys:

Warforged Skybomber
Mr. Icey
Trips
or
Disciple Of Dispater

Hurry, every second you wait, your respect decreases.

Edit: Can you cast Control Temperature during your buff rounds.

[9mm]

Anyone dare challenge anyone of these guys:

Warforged Skybomber
Mr. Icey
Trips
or
Disciple Of Dispater

Hurry, every second you wait, your respect decreases.

Edit: Can you cast Control Temperature during your buff rounds.

... meh, either of my two guys would be happy to; though they're not approved; and they don't care who they go up against.

Also Tide; Pathfinder Chronicles champaign setting, yea or nae?

[Kizara]

I'm pretty sure Wee Jas cannot have postive-channeling (read: any good) clerics, just like St Cuthbert can't have negative channelers. So no, you can't have a LG cleric of Wee Jas. I also don't agree that you should be able to, as its very much against the flavor of everything I've read of both Wee Jas as a deity and a Religion.

[Vicerious]

The only restriction is neutral clerics of Wee Jas must rebuke. LG clerics of Wee Jas are absolutely legal.

[Claudius Maximus]

No on anything from Slayer or Apostle of Peace. The rest are fine. I have no idea about HC, sorry Max.

When you say "the rest", does that include all the other spells I've asked you about, or just the ones in that post? Specifically:
Are the initiate spells OK? What about my rat scheme?
I know we can't have bunnies for consumptive field in the morning, but can we bring a sack of them to the buff rounds? What would the prices be for that?

Sharnian: I would do a match against one of your characters, but I'm currently looking over your warforged. I'll fight any other character you want.

[Kizara]

The only restriction is neutral clerics of Wee Jas must rebuke. LG clerics of Wee Jas are absolutely legal.

Read the Turn or Rebuke Undead entry in your PHB.

First line, second paragraph: "A good cleric can turn or destroy an undead creature." It goes on to say evil clerics rebuke, etc.

So, since Wee Jas' clerics MUST rebuke, and good-aligned clerics MUST turn, you cannot have a good-aligned cleric of Wee Jas.

Now, it says "all lawful neutral clerics of wee jas rebuke", assumingly because the system does not allow for a LG cleric of Wee Jas, which if you read the cleric section, it never ex****ly forbids it, but it implictly does.


Honestly, I consider trying to get something through this very small hole to be abusing RAW vs RAI in its most pure form. Its not my game or call to make, but I honestly believe allowing LG clerics of Wee Jas (or LE clerics of Ct Cuthbert) is flatly againts the rules.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

... meh, either of my two guys would be happy to; though they're not approved; and they don't care who they go up against.

Also Tide; Pathfinder Chronicles champaign setting, yea or nae?


Actually I meant to write for it to be an exhibition to see what they could do. If it would be okay, itll be an exhibition match, you choose which one face or I'll go down the list if you can't decide. Can you make the thread?

[Tiki Snakes]

If what it says is 'neutral clerics of Wee Jass must rebuke undead', and it does not go on to say that there can be no good cleric's of Wee Jass, then there can quite happily be good cleric's of Wee Jass, and they are quite free to channel positive energy.

From what I can gather, it says that a Cleric who would otherwise be given the choice of whether to turn or rebuke, must choose to rebuke. This is not the same as saying ALL clerics of said goddess must rebuke.


Unless of course it actually does say that all cleric's of Wee Jass must be non-good, in which case carry on. :)

[Vicerious]

Read the Turn or Rebuke Undead entry in your PHB.

First line, second paragraph: "A good cleric can turn or destroy an undead creature." It goes on to say evil clerics rebuke, etc.

So, since Wee Jas' clerics MUST rebuke, and good-aligned clerics MUST turn, you cannot have a good-aligned cleric of Wee Jas.

Now, it says "all lawful neutral clerics of wee jas rebuke", assumingly because the system does not allow for a LG cleric of Wee Jas, which if you read the cleric section, it never ex****ly forbids it, but it implictly does.


Honestly, I consider trying to get something through this very small hole to be abusing RAW vs RAI in its most pure form. Its not my game or call to make, but I honestly believe allowing LG clerics of Wee Jas (or LE clerics of Ct Cuthbert) is flatly againts the rules.

Simply, it's an "it doesn't say I can't" argument. And in the context of trying to demonstrate if something is expressly prohibited, that's saying something. Additionally, Deities and Demigods specifically lists LG, LN, and LE as the alignments for Wee Jas' clerics. As an interesting aside, the same book also specifically disallows LE clerics of St. Cuthbert.

[9mm]

Actually I meant to write for it to be an exhibition to see what they could do. If it would be okay, itll be an exhibition match, you choose which one face or I'll go down the list if you can't decide. Can you make the thread?
you can choose your guy.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6752457#post6752457

[Doc Roc]

Kizara, in a number of places throughout the canon, Lawful Good Clerics of Wee Jas are discussed. In fact, I think there is mention of something along these lines in the RkV write-up, though I may be misremembering. There is nothing that says clerics of Wee Jas, as a whole, must rebuke, unless I am missing something. I'm perfectly fine allowing it as it currently stands. More information, direct cites for or against, or some indication of alignment restriction in the crunch beyond mention that neutral clerics of wee jas rebuke may change my mind.

Besides, it fits fine. One of my favorite NPCs I've ever run was a lawful good follower of Wee Jas.

[T.G. Oskar]

Read the Turn or Rebuke Undead entry in your PHB.

First line, second paragraph: "A good cleric can turn or destroy an undead creature." It goes on to say evil clerics rebuke, etc.

So, since Wee Jas' clerics MUST rebuke, and good-aligned clerics MUST turn, you cannot have a good-aligned cleric of Wee Jas.

Now, it says "all lawful neutral clerics of wee jas rebuke", assumingly because the system does not allow for a LG cleric of Wee Jas, which if you read the cleric section, it never ex****ly forbids it, but it implictly does.


Honestly, I consider trying to get something through this very small hole to be abusing RAW vs RAI in its most pure form. Its not my game or call to make, but I honestly believe allowing LG clerics of Wee Jas (or LE clerics of Ct Cuthbert) is flatly againts the rules.

Erm, IIRC, there's nothing that says in the rules that clerics of Wee Jas MUST rebuke. In fact, the only point specified is that Lawful Neutral clerics of Wee Jas must choose rebuke instead of turn, a departure from the "neutral clerics can choose whether to turn or rebuke", which determines most of their abilities.

Same with LE clerics of St. Cuthbert. The only specification is that LN clerics must choose to turn.

What makes it as such is as follows: Wee Jas is a cleric of Magic and Death, and mostly the closest thing to a non-evil deity of death in the Core setting. Wee Jas doesn't force all of its clerics to rebuke; most Jasite clerics focus on blind obedience to their goddess instead of merely death or magic. To Wee Jas, blind obedience is the key and the norm. Furthermore, unlike the real god of death (Nerull), death in her faith is considered actually abnormal, and she prefers to let the dead follow their curse, with undeath as a rare example to further magical studies. I might be citing from Complete Champion (you decide as to how valuable that may be), but their focus on death (and thus, the main focus as to their "evil" side) is on the power contained within the moment of death. In fact, it may be considered as against the wishes of the Ruby Sorceress to raise undead without a reason such as study or aid.

And if you're not particularly interested in that tidbit of fluff, then why protest against LG clerics of Wee Jas?

Clerics of St. Cuthbert work a bit differently. They are also uber-lawful, to the point that any offense to the law must be dealt fair retribution. In fact, St. Cuthbert would be considered a LG religion were it not because of their penchant for retribution: this alone allows for evil followers of the faith. I'd say to look a bit for High Cardinal Krozen: although Eberron doesn't have a restriction for cleric-deity alignment, Krozen is one of the highest members of a LG faith that actively hunts evil at all costs, even within the church. His evil derives not from making undead or mass-murder, but because of his way of seeing life (unending crusade) and his penchant for planning against other members of his own faith plotting to remove him from his seat. Similarly, an evil cleric of St. Cuthbert will follow the law to the letter, even if it's a law that promotes good, but he'll be quite more than happy to deliver retribution against a lawbreaker, perhaps dealing a much more harsh and brutal retribution than the usual. (This would have been useful had I not recalled the bit of Deities and Demigods. Silly me.)

The restriction is mostly for the neutral characters, who find themselves more in-line with the tenets of their deity; good-aligned clerics of Wee Jas still find themselves granted turning attempts (to filter out the undead unsanctioned by their deity). Hilarious enough, ALL clerics of St. Cuthbert (even the evil ones) can turn undead.

So...well, I don't see anything wrong. Also, may I point out that all non-evil clerics of Obad-Hai must turn undead, never rebuke, but that doesn't forbid evil clerics of Obad-Hai to rebuke undead, while following a god of nature. Which, if I may add, is a god of nature, which by virtually common sense implies that it abhors undead more than a deity of good would.

[PinkysBrain]

Oh well... there were no rules about attacking from someone's head, but that didn't stop me.

Would you count hurling myself as a natural weapon?
Hate to be the bearer of bad news ... but turns out there are rules for attacking with falling objects in HoB. Reflex save DC 15 to negate :/

[lvl 1 sharnian]

No!!!!!!
What if I just throw myself and make it a ranged attack?
Can I voluntarily auto fail a bullrush attempt?

Edit: what if the object is larger than there square;Ie covers all adjacent squares

[PinkysBrain]

No!!!!!!
What if I just throw myself and make it a ranged attack?
I guess you could say you are throwing yourself as an improvised weapon. You'd use the Complete Warrior improvised weapon damage table (P159).

Can I voluntarily auto fail a bullrush attempt?

Edit: what if the object is larger than there square;Ie covers all adjacent squares
Outside of the rules again ... although strictly speaking the second simply doesn't matter, reflex save to negate is the RAW. Kinda silly, but there it is.

Why not just go for dungeon crasher?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

If I remember, improvised weapons suck and besides I'm a monk so I'm a natural weapon and manufactured weapon so I think I'll go warhulk and throw myself, was the hulking hurler cheese damage a class ability or something else

atleast let me add to reflex dc for covering their space and all adjacent squares

tanglefoot bags entangle, I can't remember but if entangled can they make reflex saves?

[PinkysBrain]

If I remember, improvised weapons suck
You do know the hulking hurler uses improvised weapons right? It's just a question of weight.

hulking hurler cheese damage a class ability or something else
The hulking hurler makes it possible to throw far heavier stuff than normal and damage increases by 1d6 per 200 lb (at the high end).

atleast let me add to reflex dc for covering their space and all adjacent squares
I'm not running the rules here! I was just browsing HoB for ballista rules and ran into this. I can tell you what the rules in the books are, but not the rules in the game :)

[Claudius Maximus]

I'm just about finished checking your character and I came back here to ask you how much iron costs per pound, and now I see this. :smallfrown:

I knew you would end up with a Hulking Hurler...

Edit: Entangled creatures can make reflex saves, but they have a penalty.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

iron is 1sp per pound

Im not one yet :)

However I can't recall the basis of the Hulking Hurler damage, so he can throw a object at something and deal tons of damage and they don't get a reflex save? Is that an ability or an oversight in build threads? Nvm, figured this bit out, apparently if I can throw myself I deal 306d6 damage; not as high as my old one, but I'm not complaining

However my main concern is if I can throw myself by using a Jump check to allow me to throw myself? And what happens if they make their save? They've negated the damage, but I occupy all their squares, are they pinned or something?

[Doc Roc]

There's not really a pin effect, RAW, that I can see....

[Claudius Maximus]

The closest thing that I can think of is a dragon's crush attack. It wouldn't deal nearly as much damage as the falling object rules, though, assuming you can even get such an ability (I can't think of anyting that would give you one).

[Doc Roc]

I'm gonna nix initiate spells, frankly, since they normally eat a feat to acquire and are thus not part of any list.

[Claudius Maximus]

Does that nixing apply to Archivists only, or does it include the Extra Spell feat?

[Human Paragon 3]

I'd like to enter the test of spite! May I present Callis, Deceiver of Gods

[Arakune]

I'd like to enter the test of spite! May I present Callis, Deceiver of Gods (http://www.roguepenguin.com/castellar/profiler/view.php?id=3864)

PM the char sheet to one of the responsible guys.

Edit: Oh, nevermind them.

[Claudius Maximus]

He already sent it to us. I guess he just wanted everyone to see the sheet.

[Human Paragon 3]

I posted it here, then realized I was supposed to PM it.

[Doc Roc]

Hopefully, the sheetgeists will take care of everything. Go ahead and enter your name tentatively in the sign-up and match-making sheet.

[Jalor]

What kind of action does it take to put on a belt or take one off, assuming one is grabbing new belts from a Handy Haversack?

[sofawall]

I assume this is to get Belts of Battle awesomeness?

[Jalor]

I assume this is to get Belts of Battle awesomeness?

Ayup. He'll also carry a single Monk's Belt, which goes on before his (second, thanks to White Raven Tactics) turn ends.

[Doc Roc]

Because I hate this trick, it takes a standard action. :)

[Claudius Maximus]

The list of sheets continues to grow. I think I'll look at Gaurd Juris's character next. What's with you people and making beguilers stronger than mine? :smalleek:

So what's the verdict on Extra Spell and initiate spells? It would be that you're only getting a fraction of the benefits of the Initiate feat in exchange for much less stringent requirements.

Concerning the whole belt thing, I imagine it could take even longer than that depending on how the belt is made. For a rope belt, it should take at least as much time as it does to tie or untie the knot (typically a full round action). And you can forget about doing it in one round if you have to get it through those loops on the back of your jeans.

One thing you might be able to do is wear both belts at once. Only the first one applies, but you can get the effects of the second belt by removing the first. this could cut down on the number of actions required.

[Doc Roc]

Extra spell can hit initiate lists, but make absolutely sure there's not an updated form of the spell.

[mikethepoor]

Speaking of wilders, can psionic characters begin a duel psionically focused?

[Doc Roc]

I suppose there's no reason not to. You do in all real game play.

[sofawall]

The list of sheets continues to grow. I think I'll look at Gaurd Juris's character next.

I remain useless. My comp with my materials died, and I'm borrowing comp for the mo' :(

[mikethepoor]

OK, question about metapsionic feats.

Do power points I spend on metapsionic feat uses count toward the augmentation benefits (increased save DCs, etc.)?

[Claudius Maximus]

No they do not. They are spent to power the metapsionic feat and nothing else. If a 10th level Kineticist wanted to manifest Energy Cone, he could spend 5 extra power points to increase its damage by 5d6, or he could Maximize it for +4 and increase the damage by 1d6 for +1. The +4 power points spent to maximize the power do not also increase the damage.

[Signmaker]

Does anyone remember a gauntlet or such that may have granted Far Shot?

[Claudius Maximus]

They're not gauntlets, but the Horizon Goggles from Complete Mage give far shot and have the added bonus of extending the range of spells with attack rolls.

[Signmaker]

Found a helmet in MiC that does Far Shot too.

[Mushroom Ninja]

Is it okay to use Savage Species Material?

[Signmaker]

Is it okay to use Savage Species Material?


Source Material

* Iron Kingdoms material is allowed on a case by case basis.
* Dragon and Dungeon Magazine are banned.
* Serpent Kingdoms is approval-only material.
* Savage Species is approval-only material.



It helps to check out the spoilers.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Can we use the Sword and Fist bladed gauntlet?

[Doc Roc]

No. Savage species material must be item-by-item requested, and explanations have to be provided. It's not that savage species is the Single Best Thing, it's more that savage species has a bunch of bizarre or badly made things tossed in with its generally excellent content, enough that it was faster and easier to do a approval-only-style thang.

[mikethepoor]

So an anthro whale named Willy is out?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Do you auto fail reflex saves when stuck to the floor by a tanglefoot bag?

[Mushroom Ninja]

No. Savage species material must be item-by-item requested, and explanations have to be provided. It's not that savage species is the Single Best Thing, it's more that savage species has a bunch of bizarre or badly made things tossed in with its generally excellent content, enough that it was faster and easier to do a approval-only-style thang.

Excellent, that makes perfect sense. Is the "feral" template on or off limits?

[Claudius Maximus]

Do you auto fail reflex saves when stuck to the floor by a tanglefoot bag?

No. You can make reflex saves as normal, although you will effectively have a -2 penalty because you're entangled (-4 dex).

[PinkysBrain]

Do you auto fail reflex saves when stuck to the floor by a tanglefoot bag?
You don't even auto-fail reflex saves when you are paralysed.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

You don't even auto-fail reflex saves when you are paralysed.

o.0 is that RAW? I fail to understand the reasoning behind that

[Arakune]

o.0 is that RAW? I fail to understand the reasoning behind that

The author lazyness, of course.

[Claudius Maximus]

I've been trying to scrape together a refutation, but it's looking like that's the case. It seems that the only effect paralysis has on reflex saves is the penalty you get for having a Dex score of 0. The unconscious body of a rogue is less likely to catch fire than the unconscious body of a wizard.

[Eurus]

The unconscious body of a rogue can even be more likely to (completely) dodge a fireball aimed directly at it than a conscious wizard. 0_0

[PinkysBrain]

o.0 is that RAW? I fail to understand the reasoning behind that
It's in the official FAQ :

If you’re helpless, your Dexterity score is effectively 0. You still can make Reflex saves, but your Dexterity modifier is –5. You’re helpless whenever you are paralyzed, unconscious, or asleep.

However this is in the SRD :

As with a Reflex save for any creature, a character must have room to move in order to evade. A bound character or one squeezing through an area cannot use evasion.

As with a Reflex save for any creature, evasion is a reflexive ability. The character need not know that the attack is coming to use evasion.

This came from the DMG though and the DMG is full of unfixed 3.0 copy paste errors.

[9mm]

Do you auto fail reflex saves when stuck to the floor by a tanglefoot bag?

... lol, trying to pin down john and his +11 to reflex are we? by the way, I think John may very well be your worst match up ever.

[Arakune]

It's in the official FAQ :


However this is in the SRD :


This came from the DMG though and the DMG is full of unfixed 3.0 copy paste errors.

The hilarious part is that a rogue with evasion can dodge a fireball while uncouncious AND paralyzed.

[Signmaker]

... lol, trying to pin down john and his +11 to reflex are we? by the way, I think John may very well be your worst match up ever.

That's debatable. I don't know WHY exactly, but all HSLA users I've seen thus far have had such horrible damage output. Meanwhile, one bad reflex save and ur ded, mate.

[9mm]

That's debatable. I don't know WHY exactly, but all HSLA users I've seen thus far have had such horrible damage output. Meanwhile, one bad reflex save and ur ded, mate.

Evasive reflexes, who needs to TAKE a reflex save when I can simply 5ft out of the way of the falling robot of doom?

[Signmaker]

He'd be a lousy robot of doom if he can't even make himself huge-sized to stop that. >>

[JeminiZero]

Now that I have a little free time, I am offering a total rebuilt Alita Mk2 for exhibition matches. Be warned though, her bark is worse than her bite.



That's debatable. I don't know WHY exactly, but all HSLA users I've seen thus far have had such horrible damage output. Meanwhile, one bad reflex save and ur ded, mate.


I might have missed something earlier, but what does HSLA stand for?

[Signmaker]

I might have missed something earlier, but what does HSLA stand for?

High Sword Low Axe. The Weapon Style feat that allows trips if you hit with both your sword and your axe.

[9mm]

He'd be a lousy robot of doom if he can't even make himself huge-sized to stop that. >>

huge is 3x3 right? I have enough AoOs that I can get out of that. remember falling on someone is 2 AoOs (entering a threated square above, then entering the one I'm in) + roblier's if need be; John is very, very good at running if he has to.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

He'd be a lousy robot of doom if he can't even make himself huge-sized to stop that. >>

I am huge-sized, I would have been colossal if I could make the UMD checks for Giant Size, eat that John! And technically falling on someone isn't an attack so I don't think that Robilar's would work

And I need the HP and immunities from Juggernaut to combat to provide a squishy landing zone for fall damage as well as Will targeting attacks

Btw what happens when you reach over Maximum Load, such as would occur from having a 34ton robot on your head?

How tall is John, my next turn depends on it.

Would someone suffer damage from falling object if it's already on top of them and they both fall 10ft.

[9mm]

I am huge-sized, I would have been colossal if I could make the UMD checks for Giant Size, eat that John! And technically falling on someone isn't an attack so I don't think that Robilar's would work

And I need the HP and immunities from Juggernaut to combat to provide a squishy landing zone for fall damage as well as Will targeting attacks

Btw what happens when you reach over Maximum Load, such as would occur from having a 34ton robot on your head?

How tall is John, my next turn depends on it.

he's medium sized, and human so... average? I know that falling isn't techinaly an attack, thats why you only prvoked 6 times instead of 8.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Let's see, 15% you just die on my next attack, 25% if I tanglefoot you.

Is there anything that reduces Reflex saves besides Ray of Clumsiness?

[Signmaker]

Let's see, 15% you just die on my next attack, 25% if I tanglefoot you.

Is there anything that reduces Reflex saves besides Ray of Clumsiness?

Getting rid of his vest/cloak of resistance.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

I can't really do anything, Kami is a one trick pony created for amusement that heavily nerfed by PinkysBrain when he/she read Heroes of Battle unless I can find a way to throw myself

If I have adamantine body feat, does that make my natural attacks and armor spikes adamantine?

[Claudius Maximus]

JZ: I have a new character I want to test, but I should tell you that I witnessed Alita's other battles. Also, my character isn't entirely... finished.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Also I don't suppose cloaks are well secured, but are they loose?

[JeminiZero]

JZ: I have a new character I want to test, but I should tell you that I witnessed Alita's other battles. Also, my character isn't entirely... finished.


I don't think anyone hasn't witnessed her previous battles so I'll have to live with that bit.

But if your character is not finished how is he/she/it going to fight?

[Claudius Maximus]

I've slopped together enough of her stats in the last 30 minutes to fight. There won't be any problems, I think.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Im back! We can continue with our fight Claudius...I posted there.

Oh, and I had two finished characters, but my internet deleted them. I have to go remake them :smallannoyed: They should be ready soon.

[JeminiZero]

I've slopped together enough of her stats in the last 30 minutes to fight. There won't be any problems, I think.


Put a thread up.

[Claudius Maximus]

Here you go. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6766292#post6766292)

[Olo Demonsbane]

Claudius beat me...I got all terrible rolls except for saving throws :smallannoyed:

Ok, anyone want to fight? I have like 10 characters and I want to kill something now.

[Claudius Maximus]

Olo brought up a good point in that match: if I dominate my opponent, can I take him with me as a minion? Obviously this wouldn't apply to exhibition matches, since they don't actually happen.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Tide Assuming you can see your opponent, could you study an opponent for a Death Attack in the buff rounds?

[sofawall]

Olo
I'm gonna go with no. Same type of thing as Vrock Dancing or summoning, it's offensive, not defensive. Tidesinger may disagree, but that's my vote on it.

There is, however, a spell that makes your next attack a death attack without needing to study. This is a buff :P Level 4 assassin, forget the name and even where it is, but I know it exists.

[Doc Roc]

As an appointed GM, sofa's word is basically law here.

[Mushroom Ninja]

I'm going to resubmit my question: Is the "feral" template kosher?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sofa/Tide Are you sure? I can easily see why Vrocks dancing is illegal, but studying for a death attack is something that one is supposed to do outside of combat, like buffing.
And where is that spell from? I cant cast spells of that level, but I could possibly UMD it.

[sofawall]

Olo
Quite sure, yes. Summons are preferred to be made beforehand, but we sort of frowned on that, made you announce and so forth. Anyway, that's my opinion on it.

Anyway, spell is Deathsight from Comp. Mage. Standard action casting, and after casting, the first attack you make before the end of your next turn is a death attack. Useful spell, that.

EDIT: Hiding should be easy anyway, shouldn't it?

[Doc Roc]

I'm going to resubmit my question: Is the "feral" template kosher?

No, it is not.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sofa Ok, nevermind, that wont work very well. My character excells at getting lots of attacks, and I hoped to be able to force 12 DC 19 Fortitude SoDs on my first turn of combat.

[sofawall]

Olo
O.o Kinda glad I ruled the way I did...

[Claudius Maximus]

Is the Dragonwrought feat explicitly banned?

[Doc Roc]

I don't... think so? Only loredrake and dragonlance-style dragonspawn is banned. GDROP is not.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Anyone want to fight my new Tier 3 character in an exhibition match?

[Jalor]

Almighty DMs:Can a character apply all-day (read: DMM-Persisted) buffs, rest, and then apply a new set of all-day buffs?

Do turn/rebuke attempts regenerate after 8 hours or 24 hours?

Must one be LG to take Church Inquisitor as a worshiper of Wee Jas, or can one be LN?

Would said LN Cleric of Wee Jas be allowed to have skeleton minions (created for scholarly purposes and kept around for convenience)?

A Standard strand of Prayer Beads costs 25,800 gp. The item entry says one can remove the Bead of Smiting to lower the price by 16,800 gp. Can I do this, and purchase the modified strand for 9,000 gp?

Are partially charged wands allowed?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Ok, I was going to preface my spoiler with just "Sofa/Tide"...but...after that...

Almighty DMs:Can I study an opponent with Death Attack during the fight if I take no hostile actions? I think I might just be able to get away with it because of insanely high AC and saves.

[9mm]

Fact checker reminded me to ask this...

DM'S ONLY

Arcane Archer's imbue arrow+splitting enhancement = double Fwoosh? y/n?

[Doc Roc]

9mm:

You left out smiting spell, and the split arrow spell (also from Champions of ruin).

The issue is that here the RAW and the sane rules differ. It's possible to get 4x1d4+1 spells outbound off a single arrow. Maybe more. Just had a conversation about this. I'm leaning towards no and a commendation for nearly getting it past us. Would that be satisfactory?

[sofawall]

Olo
Amusingly, yes.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sofa Awesome...it also helps that I need 9 rounds to fully buff...the three rounds I spend waiting can be put to good use :smallbiggrin:

[sofawall]

Jalor
AFB, so some of the stuff I can't get to...

1)I think this was mentioned earlier, only with 36 hour spells. I forget the ruling, but am leaning towards no.

2) 24 hours. They regen when you prepare spells. And remember, Clerics cannot get three sets of spells in one day. They have one time to pray, and that's it for the day.

3) No clue.

4) Only if a) they don't fight or b) you advertise yourself as a minionmancer.

5) I don't see why not.

6) You're kidding, right?

Olo
Scratch that, I looked up the rules.. If they recognize you as an enemy you can't study them. Sorry. Looks like hiding is the only way.

[Olo Demonsbane]

SofaDamn. Ah well, that probably would have been stupid anyway...I can still try hiding though, I have +21 in it...

EDIT: And since this is a new page, I might as well state this again...Tier 3 character, ready for an exhibition...who wants to fight?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Mr. Icey would be up for a exhibition against your character.

[JeminiZero]

And so we find oursleves in need of outside help. Would an observer (not necessarily a DM and preferably one not planning a match against Alita) kindly verify this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6771999#post6771999) and then post whether it is correct?

Edit: Thanks Olo and Sofawall

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sharnian: Match (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6772512#post6772512)

EDIT: Jemini: I'd say you are correct.

[sofawall]

Jemini's right. The Streamers seem to do nothing. No instant death saves, either.

Carry on.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Quick question: Does Blindsight defeat illusions? I cant remember right now...

[Doc Roc]

JZ

I'm banning dweomerkeeper.
Alita can finish this match, but then the hounds are going to eat her.

[9mm]

9mm:

You left out smiting spell, and the split arrow spell (also from Champions of ruin).

The issue is that here the RAW and the sane rules differ. It's possible to get 4x1d4+1 spells outbound off a single arrow. Maybe more. Just had a conversation about this. I'm leaning towards no and a commendation for nearly getting it past us. Would that be satisfactory?



Considering I wasn't even thinking about the things you mentioned, and just thought I'd found something to make extra-spell worth it; sure.

[JeminiZero]

@ Tidesinger

Is this something thats been brewing for a while? Or was it something abusive that Alita did?

What I'm basically asking is whether this she gets HoF for a 3rd runtime ban :smalltongue:

[sofawall]

JZ
It was brewing for a while, and your non-dispellable immunity to hit point damage was the straw that broke the camels back. The only practical way to kill you was an AMF.

Tidesinger was discussing it with me :P

[JeminiZero]

@ DMs


Shes not entirely immune. She is still vulnerable to Hotter than normal Fire effects (Searing metamagic, Hellfire Lock, Divine Fire).

You're also missing some other things. Immunity to HP damage alone does not preclude death by Suffocation, Death Effects, Ability Damage/Drain, Energy Drain, Polymorph and Petrify. Although in this case, Alita has her Construct Nature, Construct Essence and Proof against Transmutation to guard against those. And Iron Heart Surge/Shadow Jaunt can take care of nearly everything else (Force Cage, AMF, Greymantle, Feeblemind). As you can see, a lot of thought went into this build :smalltongue:

Still, despite her considerable immunities, there are plenty of instakill non-death effects which can bring her down (CL+10 Blasphemy Casters, Construct Slaying Weapons, Vorpal). Weapons coated with Trollbane alchemical Goo still hurt her. Her mind is still vulnerable to charm/suggestion/dominate (which is why I keep Prot from Evil up as a high priority).

Edit: Oh wait, Trollbane is a injury poison, so she is immune to that as well. Soo... does she get HoF? >_>

[sofawall]

JZ
The main problem is, you are immune to almost everything through a combination of construct, Immunity to mind-effecting, immunity to polymorph and turning damage into non-lethal, which you are immune to. This is not a problem.

The problem lies in, unless someone is prepared specifically to kill something that is basically unkillable, you cannot feasibly be killed. Your important buffs cannot be dispelled, all that the opposition can do is get you in an AMF and hit you hard, or dispel and a mind-effecting before you can get protection from evil back up. Not easy. If your spell weren't Su., this build would not be a problem, but with Su., well, we felt it necessary to ban Dweomerkeeper. Congratz, you banned a class :P

[JeminiZero]

Well, for those who haven't been looking in the spoiler boxes, Alita Mk2 has gotten banned. Again. No more exhibition matches for her. (Apologies to those who might have been planning on one)

Incidentally, she also managed to get the entire Dweomerkeeper class banned as well. Despite NOT using supernatural spell to negate any sort of costly component :smalltongue:

[Doc Roc]

Dweomerkeeper has always been on the teetering edge. It's just a class with so many damn problems.

[T.G. Oskar]

@ DMs


Shes not entirely immune. She is still vulnerable to Hotter than normal Fire effects (Searing metamagic, Hellfire Lock, Divine Fire).

You're also missing some other things. Immunity to HP damage alone does not preclude death by Suffocation, Death Effects, Ability Damage/Drain, Energy Drain, Polymorph and Petrify. Although in this case, Alita has her Construct Nature, Construct Essence and Proof against Transmutation to guard against those. And Iron Heart Surge/Shadow Jaunt can take care of nearly everything else (Force Cage, AMF, Greymantle, Feeblemind). As you can see, a lot of thought went into this build :smalltongue:

Still, despite her considerable immunities, there are plenty of instakill non-death effects which can bring her down (CL+10 Blasphemy Casters, Construct Slaying Weapons, Vorpal). Weapons coated with Trollbane alchemical Goo still hurt her. Her mind is still vulnerable to charm/suggestion/dominate (which is why I keep Prot from Evil up as a high priority).

Edit: Oh wait, Trollbane is a injury poison, so she is immune to that as well. Soo... does she get HoF? >_>


So...what was your attack method, actually? I see a pretty solid defense, something like a build that Talic did, but through a different set of means. However, I don't see how well it could attack, or what kind of attacks it could have. At most, you'd be unkillable, but the other individual would probably have defenses against your character: it would become a stalemate.

I'd also think of adding divine-based damage to the mix, unless I see something wrong. Flame Strike, for example? Half of it is sacred damage, and not resisted by almost anything; you'd need to be immune to magic damage for that to happen, IIRC. Unless you have a method for that. There's other spells that also have a similar method to it.

As a final thing: how do you manage to turn lethal damage into non-lethal, for I see that's one of the things that sofa condemned of your build?

[JeminiZero]

@ Oskar


So...what was your attack method, actually?


Basic Divine Power full attack melee for the most part. Although she also has Strength Draining Strike to try and render her foe helpless from strength damage.



At most, you'd be unkillable, but the other individual would probably have defenses against your character: it would become a stalemate.


Obviously no character can do everything. :smalltongue: More to the point, most builds submitted focus on destroying the opponent within a couple of rounds (or even just 1 round). This build tries to turn all that around by creating something that can win an endurance match.



As a final thing: how do you manage to turn lethal damage into non-lethal, for I see that's one of the things that sofa condemned of your build?


Monstrous Regeneration. Its one of those really obscure spells that is not in Spell compendium, but a summary of it can be found on Crystal Keep's Cleric spell list.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Does Control Temperature stack with itself?

E.G. if it's at Temperature 5, can I cast CL5 control weather 3 times to drop it to Temperature 2 ?

[PinkysBrain]

Spells never stack with themselves, but you could stack it with cold snap.

[Claudius Maximus]

JZ and the DMs:
It looks like Alita is using the spell Monstrous Regeneration. According to the Spell Compendium, this is "replaced" by Greater Vigor. Technically, it's been reprinted, and you must use the latest version. To my knowledge, this is the closest thing WoTC has done to banning a spell.
Can a DM confirm that this is true? It seems like it's the case to me, but I could be wrong.

[Doc Roc]

It does not appear in the consolidated lists published by WotC, and many third ed spells do. Generally, the consolidated spell listing offers the most recent printing of a spell. This is the closest to confirmation I can offer while AFB.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells

[Olo Demonsbane]

When I actually found out where sharnian was (I killed his project image in the first turn), I killed him with my first 3 attacks.

Anyone else want to fight?

[Claudius Maximus]

Tide: Are the two traits and one flaw mandatory? Literally everyone whose sheet I have checked was under the impression that they were optional, but it doesn't look that way to me based on your post. I've been telling them that it's required, but I'm starting to wonder. I don't want to give people incorrect "corrections", so please get back to me on this.

Edit: Also, I have an entirely unrelated question: can sanctum spell be used for early qualification? What about Snowcasting?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sanctum Spell can...Tide was the one that told me of that, as a matter of fact...

[Doc Roc]

They are optional, but Aggressive is good enough that it's almost ridiculous to not have it. Illiterate is oddly very good as well.

I often wonder if maybe that was some Freudian slip on the part of the UA authors. :)

Any traditionally legitimate early entry method is allowed. This includes the ones you listed.

[Claudius Maximus]

So I've been wrong this whole time. :smallsigh:

Perhaps you should change the post to indicate that they're not mandatory. If I got the wrong impression, maybe someone else will too. Something like "You may have up to 2 traits and one flaw"?

Anyone who wants to change their flaws and traits in light of this, PM me and I'll take another look at your sheet.

Edit: \/ Yes it was. Fortunately, the error was in the post; that's not what I've been telling people.

[mikethepoor]

Wasn't it two flaws and one trait?

[Doc Roc]

Let me go make the change.

[Signmaker]

Hey guys, I'm back on the internet, having moved in to my new dorm.

I've got one character I need to send over to the sheetviewers, as well as one build with about 60k left in finances. I'd gauge my new sorceress as a Tier 2-3, and my DragonfireBard the same, respectively.

[mikethepoor]

Tide, in an earlier post in this thread (page 25), it was inquired about the possibility of buying a +2 LA race down to +1 to qualify it for the challenge, and you answered that it was race-dependent. Would the same logic apply to buying templates down?

[9mm]

Don't know what made me do it, but there is now a sword and boarder in the ToS... maybe I'm just bored?

[Signmaker]

Don't know what made me do it, but there is now a sword and boarder in the ToS... maybe I'm just bored?

Very.

Could be worse. You could be thinking about ways to make Spring Attack really annoying to the opponent. Like I am. >>

[Claudius Maximus]

I'd like to remind everyone who has finished characters to submit them using the link on the first page.

Sorry I haven't been able to handle as many sheets recently; I've had a lot to do lately. I'll try to do as many as I can this week, since I'll have to move into my dorm for school next week. Expect much longer turnaround times from me then. Hopefully some of the other sheet checkers can pick up the slack.

A question for Tidesinger or a DM:
If an invisible creature picks up a small animal and puts it in his backpack, would the animal become invisible? I asked this in Q&A, and Fax told me it could be up to the DM's discretion, though he was leaning towards yes.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Tide, If I take a multi-armed race, can I swap out TWF from ranger for multiweapon fighting?

EDIT: changed to multiweapon fighting from multiattack

EDIT: As well as Prerequisites and bonuses for TWF classes

Basically, can Multi-armed races swap out Two Weapon Weapon class features and prerequisites for the equivalent in the Multiweapon fighting feat tree?

Mostly needed for ranger and Dervish/Tempest

[sofawall]

Tide, If I take a multi-armed race, can I swap out TWF from ranger for multiweapon fighting?

EDIT: changed to multiweapon fighting from multiattack

EDIT: As well as Prerequisites and bonuses for TWF classes

Basically, can Multi-armed races swap out Two Weapon Weapon class features and prerequisites for the equivalent in the Multiweapon fighting feat tree?

Mostly needed for ranger and Dervish/Tempest


Special

This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

I'd say yes.


I'd like to remind everyone who has finished characters to submit them using the link on the first page.

Sorry I haven't been able to handle as many sheets recently; I've had a lot to do lately. I'll try to do as many as I can this week, since I'll have to move into my dorm for school next week. Expect much longer turnaround times from me then. Hopefully some of the other sheet checkers can pick up the slack.

A question for Tidesinger or a DM:
If an invisible creature picks up a small animal and puts it in his backpack, would the animal become invisible? I asked this in Q&A, and Fax told me it could be up to the DM's discretion, though he was leaning towards yes.

Yeah, I'm going to be very erratic on sheet checking for quite a while. Comp died, working on borrowed internet :(

Anyway, if you pick up a small creature and put him in your bag, he is invisible.

[T.G. Oskar]

I feel a bit bored, so I'll be dealing with what I should have been doing all along: revising sheets.

@Sheet-Scanners:
While this goes for all, this might go for Tide and Claudius.

...Mind explaining things a bit through PM? Just so that there's no misunderstandings. Claudius sent a PM, no biggie.

Also, I'll be probably sending the Skill Sheet after I tinker with it. Shouldn't be so tough to understand, actually. I'll give more details through PM.

[Doc Roc]

But not silenced.

If he is merely being held by you, he is visible.

[Doc Roc]

Tide, in an earlier post in this thread (page 25), it was inquired about the possibility of buying a +2 LA race down to +1 to qualify it for the challenge, and you answered that it was race-dependent. Would the same logic apply to buying templates down?

Yes, but there are very few good LA +2 templates, and even fewer that I'd let in. I presume you're thinking of the... Shadow Template, is it?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Or the Saint.

Speaking of which, would you allow the Saint? I might try to make an uber good type person...thing...

[Signmaker]

Yes, but there are very few good LA +2 templates, and even fewer that I'd let in. I presume you're thinking of the... Shadow Template, is it?

Knowing him, Phrenic.

[Doc Roc]

hmm, Phrenic is pretty good... :: thoughtful look ::
Saint is explicitly allowed, Olo.

[Claudius Maximus]

Do any evil gods have the Inquisition domain? If not, is there any chance I can get my mitts on it as a Lawful Evil Contemplative? Inquisitions can be used for all kinds of nefarious ends, after all.

Edit: For the DMs:
So are we not using Skill Knowledge? Last time it came up, Tidesinger wasn't too clear on whether or not it was allowed. I'm looking at a sheet right now where the character is using it to qualify for a prestige class, so I need an explicit answer this time.

Edit: Now that I'm looking closer, it looks like the character is using that entire skill system. He's got 5 skills with max ranks, and only enough normal skill points to max out 4 of them. Letting in Skill Knowledge would necessitate further ruling whether or not it automatically maxes out the skill. I'm inclined to nix the whole thing, personally.

[mikethepoor]

Yes, Phrenic is good, Tide. Especially for the wilder I submitted. The question is whether I would qualify for it, as the template can be applied only to a base creature that does not already have the psionic subtype, and class levels in wilder give me that subtype.

[sofawall]

Claudius
I'd nix the feat, it's not necessary, not for the skill system we're using and is causing more hassles than it's worth.

As for the system, I do believe we are using basic D&D 3.5 skills, are we not? No variants except those listed on the first page? I'd nix the whole alternate system.

[T.G. Oskar]

Yes, Phrenic is good, Tide. Especially for the wilder I submitted. The question is whether I would qualify for it, as the template can be applied only to a base creature that does not already have the psionic subtype, and class levels in wilder give me that subtype.

That's mostly debatable; on whether the class considers (as if an algorithm) that it gives you the psionic subtype that supersedes the template or not. I'd say that it doesn't, since as far as I know the classes don't give you the psionic template per-se. Most races do (such as the ones from XPH, plus the classes that have Psionics on their skill lists which can be converted to Psionic variants) You wouldn't be able to apply the Phrenic template on them, but on those races that don't have psionic variants, you can do so.

Furthermore, the little tidbit of info that may conflict would be that races that can gain class levels usually gain the psionic ability through class levels instead. Emphasis on the "usually"; furthermore, since it grants you power points, you might be capable of adding psionic classes instead. It would be an exception of the norm, as a Phrenic creature is an exceptional specimen of the race.

[mikethepoor]

Oskar, a creature with a power point reserve actually does have the psionic subtype, as evidenced by this link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/overview.htm#thePsionicSubtype

As for whether that means I can take both the class and template or I'm restricted to having one or the other, the rules would seem to indicate that it's a one-or-the-other deal, though it could be ruled that I'm gaining my first class level (and a power point reserve) and the template at the same time, and thus I did not have the psionic subtype before acquired the template... but it's a tricky situation either way.

[T.G. Oskar]

Oskar, a creature with a power point reserve actually does have the psionic subtype, as evidenced by this link: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/overview.htm#thePsionicSubtype

Which is why I mentioned if the classes run as an algorithm:
If X character has power point reserve, then add psionic subtype.
Else, nothing.

If X character has psionic subtype, do not allow Phrenic template.
Else, allow Phrenic template.

The problem would be to verify whether the algorithm runs always (checking every level, or something) or just for when you need to add the Phrenic template. If it does, you can add the template (which is usually added before any class), and then add the class and have no problem since you already have a power point reserve (thanks to the Phrenic template) to which any further points are pooled. The restriction applies only if the character is naturally psionic (such as Kalashtar). Since it's inherited, it can only be gained as a 1st level character, so it would imply that you can add it before adding any class.

Since there's no restriction as to whether it loses those abilities if it gains a psionic class level (if any), just mentions that it's not usual for a Phrenic creature to gain class levels in psionic classes, it's probably legal by RAW. The creation step would probably be screwed if the character adds Wild Talent or Hidden Talent, in which the template would be invalidated; however, you don't lose the template for gaining a class, since the class does not apply a separate psionic subtype to the race, and the power points are added to the original pool of 1 that the Phrenic creature has.

[Doc Roc]

I'm considering stepping the version number forward on the Fix Pack, which would naturally include a whole stack of changes that I've been reluctant to do. Things as big as banning wizards, forcing clerics to scribe spells.... etc. As you guys are the heart of this little mini-community, I want your thoughts on the possibility of moving forward a version number sometime in the next two months.

[Signmaker]

Banning wizards...woah.

[mikethepoor]

That would disqualify Quamril, then. Should I destroy his sheet now, or hold off?

[Doc Roc]

If I do anything, it will be at least a couple of months out. Legacy characters will likely be preserved.... After all, we need a baseline to test the fix pack against. :)

[9mm]

I'm considering stepping the version number forward on the Fix Pack, which would naturally include a whole stack of changes that I've been reluctant to do. Things as big as banning wizards, forcing clerics to scribe spells.... etc. As you guys are the heart of this little mini-community, I want your thoughts on the possibility of moving forward a version number sometime in the next two months.

I wouldn't mind move foward... but I've been thinking (always a dangerous thing) and a couple things sort of came to me.

1. What if sorcers and wizards spell progression was swapped, so sorcs can cast more, but know less, while wiz's know more, cast less. Probably wouldn't balance anything, I don't play casters often enough to have any idea how they'd effect them.

2. ToB style boosts (as in the manuver type) that fighter's gain on odd levels, instead of constantly trying to move the fighter away from the full attack, let's make it his thing with a variety of ways to make it more dangeous, plus by being a swift you can still apply it to a standard single attack if nessary. granted all I came up with so far is BAB to Damage but hey, it's a start. The big question is how do my two "fighter's but not fighters" hold up... because if all the fighter needs was a customizable save and skill list then... wow.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I think part of the issue is figuring out exactly what aspects of the game are broken. The Big 6 are not on the same power level, nor built with the same mechanics. They each abuse the game in different ways, and those are what need to be examined to figure out where to start fixing.

[T.G. Oskar]

I'm considering stepping the version number forward on the Fix Pack, which would naturally include a whole stack of changes that I've been reluctant to do. Things as big as banning wizards, forcing clerics to scribe spells.... etc. As you guys are the heart of this little mini-community, I want your thoughts on the possibility of moving forward a version number sometime in the next two months.

Eh, banning wizards? So you're going to leave only Sorcerers instead, or are you going to ban that as well?

There's little you can do aside from using what there is, and mostly banning X thing and altering Y thing. But that still won't let a Monk raise a Tier by itself (unless you homebrew), or let a Wizard lower a tier by itself.

I'm...a bit on a loss on this one. What are you trying to accomplish? Wizards have been hit pretty hard, and they still hit pretty hard. I'd rather say let no Wizard ever have access to metamagic, no feats, just Scribe Scroll. Sorcerers can have access to metamagic, with their restrictions; that makes the Wizard be at the brink of lowering a Tier. Clerics would be thusly devoid of metamagic as well, and so does Druids (who would also lose Natural Spell)

Would that be a bit more reasonable? Metamagic isn't the most powerful thing Wizards have, but it would certainly eliminate most things such as Quickened Time Stop. Other stuff would still have to be banned, but I'd figure that Metamagic should be the realm of those who have more limited spells, to do with them a bit more, and actually balancing stuff a bit. Some save or die spells will still be around, but that's something you might just have to eliminate from Wizard lists or something similar.

But banning Wizards? Eh...too radical.

[Doc Roc]

Think about it though! There's no fix for wizards that leaves them in a position to continue functioning, or doesn't demand a complete overhaul of the entire library of spells. Ban metamagic? I can get it with PrCs. Take my feats? I'll just class out earlier. Take my spells? Well, now you start to hit the beast straight in the belly. But screw up the wizard's spell progression, and you leave them difficult to play, in a position where you'd need to seriously nerf-bat every other caster class.

Wizards are THE sacred cow of D&D, and I think it's time for some tasty burgers.

If I did this, I'd also move sorcerers around some to make them more playable but less powerful. There's a built in mechanic for handling the power level of the sorcerer, simple as altering the pattern of spells known.

Something would naturally need to be done re: clerics. Any changes that come from this are months out. I do have a fighter fix I've been working on with a number of people for most of a month now, so I'll also pass links to that out to anyone who's interested.

[9mm]

Wizards are THE sacred cow of D&D, and I think it's time for some tasty burgers.


Can I have mine with Onions?


I do have a fighter fix I've been working on with a number of people for most of a month now, so I'll also pass links to that out to anyone who's interested.

definitely interested, I love me some fighters. (probably cause I like feat staking.)

[Olo Demonsbane]

Maybe you could do something similar to the minionmancer dilema. Give a second list of fixes, the new ones that are more ballanced, and anyone who is using the current list must say so on the sign up sheet.

I dont know though...banning wizards might be a little harsh.

[Doc Roc]

Basically, while I love ToS in its own right, and I love having the opportunity to interact with you guys like this, ToS has always been about finding a way to make 3.5 the game I remember from my childhood without it becoming something that's not 3.5. I'm looking for a razor fine balance point that simply may not be there.

It's been an incredible run, and I've learned more about game design doing this than any of the other stuff I've hacked together over the years. Thank you all for your help, your persistence, and your tolerance. Whatever we end up doing, this has never been about me. This has been about giving you beautiful lunatics a chance to strut your stuff.

[T.G. Oskar]

Think about it though! There's no fix for wizards that leaves them in a position to continue functioning, or doesn't demand a complete overhaul of the entire library of spells. Ban metamagic? I can get it with PrCs. Take my feats? I'll just class out earlier. Take my spells? Well, now you start to hit the beast straight in the belly. But screw up the wizard's spell progression, and you leave them difficult to play, in a position where you'd need to seriously nerf-bat every other caster class.

Wizards are THE sacred cow of D&D, and I think it's time for some tasty burgers.

Well...make metamagic incompatible with Wizards by all costs? A meta-rule that says "Metamagics never work with Wizard spells". It's a simple patch, but nothing so spectacular.

Alternatively, go for what worked a long time ago. I dunno how familiar you are with the AD&D 2nd Edition Mage, but downgrade the Wizard to it. Don't give them four spells plus any bonuses for Intelligence: give them two, or even ONE spell of the highest level. Ignore Int for bonus spells: Wizards can't get them (in that sense, Clerics can't get bonus spells either). Sorcerers and Favored Souls, Warmages, Beguilers, Dread Necromancers...heck, even Paladins and Rangers get extra spells. Extra Spell Capacity? Not for the Big 5. Metamagic? That's something for the classes that went later: the Wizard and the Cleric, and heck, even the Druid are barred from it, permanently. Pearls of Power? Non-existent: Memento Magica do, and they benefit Sorcerers. Paladins and Rangers, those classes whose spellcasting is often told that sucks balls? Not anymore: they cast from the Cleric, or Druid, spells, and have some of their own, but they just get them to...4th level? 5th? Bards are one of the few that get their own list, and still get to Metamagic them. But Wizard, Cleric and Druid? Get that Nerf gun and nerf them to oblivion.

But it won't feel just right to outright ban them. That can lead to other bannings, and eventually it'll all end with "go play Pathfinder/4th Edition, it doesn't have that trouble".

Also, Wizards aren't the sacred cows of D&D. They are the sacred cows of fantasy in general. The problem was that D&D made them much more powerful. Dungeon crawlers make them a bit more pitiful, although still necessary.

If I did this, I'd also move sorcerers around some to make them more playable but less powerful. There's a built in mechanic for handling the power level of the sorcerer, simple as altering the pattern of spells known.

Something would naturally need to be done re: clerics. Any changes that come from this are months out. I do have a fighter fix I've been working on with a number of people for most of a month now, so I'll also pass links to that out to anyone who's interested.[/QUOTE]

[Jalor]

Once again I will take the unpopular stance.

You can ban the Wizard, ban metamagic, ban all the broken spells, give everything a save, and make spells cause Con damage to the caster, and it would balance the game. But it wouldn't be the same game anymore. 3.5 Edition assumes magic is fairly commonplace, easy to use, and effective. It then leaves you with the Wizard, who makes the laws of physics his bitch, and the Monk, who punches people rather well. You just can't have magic in a setting where it's not dominant. Forgotten Realms solves this by having Incantatrixes and Halruaan Elders everywhere; working their silly magic. I solve this by going "Okay, everyone knows a little magic in this setting, so you are all spellcasters" or "There is not much magic in this world, but you can be an Adept if you'd like".

Face it; magic is just better. Your options are a high-magic setting, a low-magic setting, or a nonsensical setting. Because who cares about swinging a sword when even a commoner can become a Binder and get magical powers?

[PinkysBrain]

The ohko damage/SoDs/flexibility of wizards are one thing ... the foresight, celerity, timestop in one round (and that's being tame) is what annoys me most. Near unlimited actions and "ah nice move, immediate action rewrite of the situation" abilities are boring. Defence should be long term and strategic, not "find the most/fastest interrupts and action multipliers" (and save-game temporal powers on top for good measure).

PS. metamagic is not a problem, being able to avoid paying the spell level cost is a problem.

[Doc Roc]

D&D will never offer defense that is long-term and strategic. It can at least offer us a chance to have a meaningful game past 13th. I'm willing to table this for now, and I think we should sit down and talk about this later on when I have a more solid plan to present to you guys.

[PinkysBrain]

Without celerity, foresight and contingencies you expose yourself when attacking (unless you are a sniper, which have their own problems). Your defenses are essentially set and if your attack fails your opponent gets to test yours, with long term I simply mean longer than 1 round :)

At the moment fighting a wizard basically comes down to this :
http://tijdelijk.student.utwente.nl/I_STAND_BEHIND_YOU_NAO__by_Trichechus.jpg

PS. sorry about the previously oversized image.

[Doc Roc]

Oh god, it really does come down to that.

And then you find out -Spoilers!-
That in one continuity, L can't be killed because he wrote his own death in the notebook, 50 years in the future. So yeah, it's just like fighting a wizard.

[Claudius Maximus]

Anyone up for an exhibition against my new and improved character? It's a higher tier, maybe 1.5.

Tide/Dms: any verdict on getting the Inquisition domain as a LE contemplative?

[9mm]

Anyone up for an exhibition against my new and improved character? It's a higher tier, maybe 1.5.

Tide/Dms: any verdict on the Inquisition domain as a LE contemplative?

I'm always ready... but my teir level is quite a bit lower.

[Claudius Maximus]

I'm always ready... but my teir level is quite a bit lower.

If it's your sword-and-boarder, the good news (kind of...) is that I haven't checked that sheet yet. If you're worried about the tier difference, I still have my tier 3 Beguiler lying around. I want to test the new character, but I'm not averse to having a match with the old one just for fun.

[9mm]

If it's your sword-and-boarder, the good news (kind of...) is that I haven't checked that sheet yet. If you're worried about the tier difference, I still have my tier 3 Beguiler lying around. I want to test the new character, but I'm not averse to having a match with the old one just for fun.

oh I'd probably use the sword and boarder, but I don't care about tier difference, I was just letting you know.

[Doc Roc]

I've never been clear on the interaction between Ideal clerics and the Contemplative PrC...

[Claudius Maximus]

I've never been clear on the interaction between Ideal clerics and the Contemplative PrC...

I think you have to draw a line somewhere with ideal Clerics, to prevent people from picking up any domain they feel like getting. The problem is where to draw this line. A CN cleric with the Freedom and Chaos domains is pretty easily justified, but what about a CE with the Slime and Scalykind domains? Or a TN with the Gnome and Undeath domains? How are they justifying these choices? Do they need to be justified at all? I think they do, but then ideal clerics need a lot of DM approval.

The same thing would apply to the Contemplative's extra domains. The cleric would need to justify the choice, since the class feature says that it has to be another domain "appropriate for their god or alignment".


oh I'd probably use the sword and boarder, but I don't care about tier difference, I was just letting you know.

I'm willing to use either character, so it's whichever you're more comfortable having as an opponent.

[PinkysBrain]

You can write a bull**** character history to justify anything legal under the RAW ... if you are a good enough writer it might even not look like bull****ting (it still will be of course). Either it's legal or not, justification shouldn't enter into it in something like this IMO.

[Jalor]

Once I get around to finishing my Ruby Knight Vindicator's equipment, I'll be ready for a match. He's a low Tier 1.

[sofawall]

I think you have to draw a line somewhere with ideal Clerics, to prevent people from picking up any domain they feel like getting. The problem is where to draw this line. A CN cleric with the Freedom and Chaos domains is pretty easily justified, but what about a CE with the Slime and Scalykind domains? Or a TN with the Gnome and Undeath domains? How are they justifying these choices? Do they need to be justified at all? I think they do, but then ideal clerics need a lot of DM approval.

I can totally see Slime and Scalykind, by the way.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Anyone want to fight me? Ive got a Tier 3...

EDIT: What type of action is Arcane Strike? The book says free action, but that was before the invent of swift...the problem being that I have 3 options on what to do with my swift action...I dont need another...

[sofawall]

I vote free.

[9mm]

Anyone want to fight me? Ive got a Tier 3...


I've got guys who can rumble.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Is there any limit on it being used once per round or something?

[T.G. Oskar]

EDIT: What type of action is Arcane Strike? The book says free action, but that was before the invent of swift...the problem being that I have 3 options on what to do with my swift action...I dont need another...

Free action, does not provoke attacks of opportunity.


Is there any limit on it being used once per round or something?

Pointless, since it applies to all of your attacks (even AoO) for one round. So yeah, it can be used once per round, but since it applies to all of your attacks, it's actually pretty powerful.

So go ahead. Though, it depends on how many slots you wish to sacrifice...

[lvl 1 sharnian]

With the removal of mercantile feat, Are there any other ways of reducing the price of magic items?

[ex cathedra]

Crafting?

Honestly. I'm fairly certain a few submitted characters have crafted most of their stuff.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

With the removal of mercantile feat, Are there any other ways of reducing the price of magic items?Artificer. Also, often there's a cheaper version out there somewhere with a couple of restrictions. The Gal-Ralan from the Fiend Folio is a great example of this.