Test of Spite [D&D 3.5]

[Doc Roc]

Things look settled for the moment. Are all contestants added to the list in the hall of honor? I think I missed two or three people.

[waterpenguin43]

Can I PLEASE join?

[Yahzi]

Things look settled for the moment. Are all contestants added to the list in the hall of honor? I think I missed two or three people.
Me! You missed me! Although I won't be on-line Wed night. But Thursday I could kill somebody.

[Talic]

I was logged in, but called away from my computer for an extended period of time. Rest assured, I was making my rounds of the half dozen or so threads in 4 seperate arenas that I frequent (3 of which, now, I qualify as a judge/GM in).

[Melamoto]

Ok then, i'm back at the fight thread; all others who are involved keep checking for in case others arrive. Wykyd, you need to post your location (Unless you already have).

[Melamoto]

Attention to all people who are in the Wykydpharoah vs Ozgunmoto fight: Try to go to the thread when you see this, so we can play someday.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Jkoshe has not answered PMs, so I am ready to fight someone.

Waterpenguin43?

[Doc Roc]

I can also roll a stock character as the dweller on the threshold for people who want to hit _ME_ in the head, which must by this point be a delightfully copious supply.

[Melamoto]

I can also roll a stock character as the dweller on the threshold for people who want to hit _ME_ in the head, which must by this point be a delightfully copious supply.
Well, you did make Artificier worthless and ban Master Transmogrifist...

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Well, you did make Artificier worthless and ban Master Transmogrifist...

Because that's such a bad thing...

[Melamoto]

Because that's such a bad thing...
It could have been done better, such as a quickfix; I like the Artificier flavour.

[Doc Roc]

Wasn't really aimed at them. I'll go fix it so that they're playable again.

[Doc Roc]

Touched up the rules around item creation so that artificers are potentially playable.

[Melamoto]

Just looked up the changed rules, but as far as I can tell it's the same as normal except with a much higher xp cost. Am I right about that?

[Yahzi]

Jkoshe has not answered PMs, so I am ready to fight someone.
Me! Me! Me!

[Doc Roc]

I'll need a full character sheet, Penguin.

[waterpenguin43]

Actually, nevermind. But can I please help you manage it?
I have a really cool idea for a battle location.
I just want to help if you and Talic are too busy.

[Doc Roc]

Any and all help is welcome, particularly map-making. I've been trying to make sure all the arenas are custom and classy or at least really cool. And more Arena GMs is not bad. Thank you!

[waterpenguin43]

Your totally welcome, I'll GM either later Saturday or later Sunday if you want.
Oh yeah, and late Friday.
P.S: The two maps I made are pretty unique.
Maybe I could GM Yahzi and Demonbane...

[Olo Demonsbane]

I'll fight you Yahzi.

:smallfurious:

[Doc Roc]

Yahzi v. Demonsbane... is this acceptable to both interested parties?

[Yahzi]

Yahzi v. Demonsbane... is this acceptable to both interested parties?
Sure. Arean, buffs, whatever - let the DM pick them.

[Doc Roc]

I will put you down as a matched set, and you may either request a specific GM or place yourself at the mercy of scheduling.

[RelentlessImp]

I would be very interested in this... if anybody would be my 1v1 foe for a match or two.

[Yahzi]

I will put you down as a matched set, and you may either request a specific GM or place yourself at the mercy of scheduling.
We request the first DM that is available. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure of the mechanics. I assume we'll email the DM our char sheets, and then make our moves in "spoliered" posts in a thread?

[Doc Roc]

King of Bassets was interested a while ago. Contacting him re: a 1v1 might work out quite nicely.

[waterpenguin43]

I will put you down as a matched set, and you may either request a specific GM or place yourself at the mercy of scheduling.

Could I be the GM for them?
If so, It will start 9 hours from now.

[Doc Roc]

Certainly, just talk to them.

[waterpenguin43]

Sure. Arean, buffs, whatever - let the DM pick them.

Hey guys, can I GM you both in 6 hours?

[Yahzi]

Hey guys, can I GM you both in 6 hours?
Um... I have to go to work... so its more like 10 hours from now.

Can we do this by post? It's only going to be a few rounds, I'm sure.

[Melamoto]

Monk is full-bab.Could this apply to Enlightened Fist too? My friend wants to enter this and play one.

[Doc Roc]

Enlightened fist is a fancy-pants class. I'm really ambivalent about that...

The issue is how do we feel about sacred fist if it's full casting?

[Melamoto]

Enlightened fist is a fancy-pants class. I'm really ambivalent about that...
It was designed to be balanced for Monk and Caster progression, it should be able to carry on that role. It's hardly overpowered tbh, and it can be fun.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

The wait for ozgun is excruciating.

[Melamoto]

What wait for Ozgun?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Apparently it's not my turn yet or something. I can only assume that Ozgun and Talic are still working something out.

[Melamoto]

Probably something on the DMs part, unless he asked something and the next post answered. Ah well, whatever. I'm going last, and it looks to be a long way away. But it should go a lot faster at the weekends because there is a lot more time available.

[Talic]

It's waiting on Oz to announce further actions or end turn.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I believe we have a standing rule where, if you are absent for more than 24 hours, the DM takes over.

[Talic]

I will invoke that where necessary, and my typical choice will be total defense action and end turn.

[waterpenguin43]

Um... I have to go to work... so its more like 10 hours from now.

Can we do this by post? It's only going to be a few rounds, I'm sure.

Sure, it'll start at 7(or 2 and a half hours, if you live in a different time zone.)

[Olo Demonsbane]

We request the first DM that is available. :smallbiggrin:

I'm not sure of the mechanics. I assume we'll email the DM our char sheets, and then make our moves in "spoliered" posts in a thread?

Yeah, that works. Im sorry Im late, my internet crashed :smalleek:

As for buffing...can I choose that one? Pretty please?

[Yahzi]

Yeah, that works. Im sorry Im late, my internet crashed :smalleek:
I think I am going to wait until Tidesinger can DM.

Let me know if/when that comes to pass, Tide.

[Melamoto]

Why did you change the crafting costs to the way they are, btw? If I should read-that-as-written, then the xp cost would be so high it would be realistically impossible to have a semi-decent character that used crafting.

[Starbuck_II]

Why did you change the crafting costs to the way they are, btw? If I should read-that-as-written, then the xp cost would be so high it would be realistically impossible to have a semi-decent character that used crafting.

Yep, you pretty much lose a level. Artificers get a tiny bit around this, but no one else.

[Doc Roc]

Then I miswrote it. Let me go back and fix it.
Edit:
Re-read it, I don't see what you're seeing. Run me through your read of it.

Nix. Found it. I'm an idiot. It's fixed now.

[Yahzi]

Misha
I think you meant "Rogue." Rouge is a color.

:smallbiggrin:

[Olo Demonsbane]

Compared to many of my other spelling mistakes, that one isnt so bad :smalltongue:

[waterpenguin43]

Compared to many of my other spelling mistakes, that one isnt so bad :smalltongue:

OK, we start tommorow, and as I had to re-arrange the arena for Yahzi I don't see why not (But he has to agree).

[Olo Demonsbane]

Works for me, if Yahzi agrees.

I dont really know my timeframe tommorow yet though, except that I probably can not get on except for after ~6:00 PM Central Time in the US.

[Iku Rex]

It's fixed now.Wait, what?

Why 1/50?

[Yahzi]

Works for me, if Yahzi agrees.

I dont really know my timeframe tommorow yet though, except that I probably can not get on except for after ~6:00 PM Central Time in the US.
Sunday around 6 would be fine. However, we still don't have a battle map that is even remotely acceptable. Also, I don't know if Tidesinger will be available then, and at this point I'm just not interested in anyone else DMing.

I'll check in tmw night and see.

[waterpenguin43]

Sorry, Yahzi changed his mind. He is waiting for Tidesinger.

[Doc Roc]

Wait, what?

Why 1/50?

Because base_price is base market price. So you halve it, if I remember correctly, then take a 25th of it, since exp cost is based on cost to create.

EDIT:
I might be available tonight at 6, though I'm hoping I won't be. I'll check in if I am. I'll at least be able to throw a thread up and place a map at your disposal. What kind of map were you leaning towards? I have another really cool urban one, and I can steal all sorts of maps, as I have a really immense collection. Alternatively, if you guys have ventrilo, and are willing to get a hold of gametable, which is free and platform-independent, we could do this fancy-pants style.

[Iku Rex]

Because base_price is base market price. So you halve it, if I remember correctly, then take a 25th of it, since exp cost is based on cost to create.No.

"Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp and 1/25 of the base price in XP." -- http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm

[Doc Roc]

Doh. I never craft, oddly enough, so I had forgotten that. Fixing it.

[Olo Demonsbane]

An urban map sounds cool for me...I wont be avaliable until later though, I have family coming over.

Just my stupid, wonky, schedule...

[Yahzi]

What kind of map were you leaning towards?
You've seen my character sheet. I would like a map that does not equal auto-lose for my character.


Alternatively, if you guys have ventrilo, and are willing to get a hold of gametable, which is free and platform-independent, we could do this fancy-pants style.
The only phrase I understood was "fancy-pants." :smallbiggrin:



I wont be avaliable until later though, I have family coming over.

Well, OK, but this is the time you picked...

[Olo Demonsbane]

Didnt understand it either...Im back now, really sorry. Can you DM us now Tidesinger?

EDIT: And you have seen mine. Would appreciate one that "complements my strengths" if you know what I mean :smallwink:

[Yahzi]

Didnt understand it either...Im back now, really sorry. Can you DM us now Tidesinger?
The probability of getting 3 people in one place at one time seems low. We should do this by post.

[Doc Roc]

Seconded. I will put a thread up right now...

[Talic]

That's the main reason I prefer 1v1 matches to 2v2. Less organization required to get everyone together.

[Doc Roc]

Seconded....

Here is the thread. It will also be linked in the first post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6292859#post6292859)

Forgive me my excesses in using the map, it's from one of my all-time favorites.

[Olo Demonsbane]

All right, posted to the thread.

[Doc Roc]

Now to drag Yahzi out of hiding...

[Olo Demonsbane]

I've already PMed him, he just doesnt appear to be on :smallmad:

[Yahzi]

I've already PMed him, he just doesnt appear to be on :smallmad:
Sorry! But I've posted in the thread, and will eagerly be awaiting Tidesinger's response.

Also, I can't wait to go back and read all the spoilers, to see how it all went down.

Tide, let me know if you want me to email you my char sheet again - I may not have sent you quite the latest version (added 2 bonus spells I missed and spent 400 gp on a piece of equipment).

[Ratflail]

Is it too late for signups or can I still have a go? I'll go by myself.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Is it too late for signups or can I still have a go? I'll go by myself.

That depends. Are you ok with the prospect of facing off against an UMD wielding grapple monk?

[Ratflail]

That depends. Are you ok with the prospect of facing off against an UMD wielding grapple monk?
Better than not fighting at all.

[Doc Roc]

It's never too late!

[Ratflail]

Ok, i'm in now. So, how about that monk?

[Doc Roc]

Well, you have three options. Wait for a challenger, pick a person from the list in the front to fight, or go challenge someone to a duel to the death. The monk is just someone who's extremely likely to be part of the dungeon fauna once all is said and done.

[Ratflail]

Ok, i'll face waterpenguin, the only single guy there.

[Doc Roc]

He's indicated he'd prefer to DM... I guess I should remove him from the list. King of Bassets indicated an interest a while ago.

[Ratflail]

Ok, i'll face him then.

[Doc Roc]

I'm having a little trouble reaching him...

[Doc Roc]

Rules changed somewhat, considering a new casting fix.

[Sallera]

Talic and I have finished our match, Tide.

[Doc Roc]

Thank you! I guess this means I need to go ahead and open up the first part of the dungeon!

[Doc Roc]

We're still looking for contestants, by the way.

[Saph]

We're still looking for contestants, by the way.

Well, I'm tempted, but I'm a bit hesitant about the "further edges of game performance" line. I'm taking this to mean that the standard "no cheese" disclaimer usually present in games has been removed?

What's the objective here? Is it to create the most powerful build possible, to create the most powerful and fun build possible, or is it to see what we can slip by the DM? There are lots of very powerful combos out there that make for extremely unsatisfying matches.

- Saph

[ex cathedra]

I think I'd like to join, but I could use a bit of help with my character (specifically, spending my wbl.)

[Talic]

Well, I'm tempted, but I'm a bit hesitant about the "further edges of game performance" line. I'm taking this to mean that the standard "no cheese" disclaimer usually present in games has been removed?

What's the objective here? Is it to create the most powerful build possible, to create the most powerful and fun build possible, or is it to see what we can slip by the DM? There are lots of very powerful combos out there that make for extremely unsatisfying matches.

- Saph

Well, slipping something by the DM results in you dying. It also, however, adds you to a hall of honor. So, choose what you want. I think Tide's rather accommodating.

On a side note, I'm creating something else. StealthyMcNinja wasn't as fun as I'd like.

[Doc Roc]

Help is available. The goal is to produce powerful but interesting builds by providing a somewhat unconventional set of arenas and a unusual subsequent dungeon. If you die a bad death, you can always ask for a rematch, or bring a similar character to another arena round.

[Saph]

OK, I guess I could give it a shot. Where would you like us to send character files/links?

- Saph

[squeekenator]

This sounds interesting. I have a pretty super-powerful awesome min/maxed character of death written up, I'm not sure what other people have, so he may be too powerful, but he's a melee tank at level 13, so it shouldn't be too bad. How do I sign up? As my post count suggests, I'm fairly new to this forum and how it works.

[Saph]

There's a signup thread in Finding Players, but it hasn't been used in a week, so I doubt anyone's still watching it. I think you just grab a friend/enemy and find a DM.

- Saph

[ex cathedra]

I was having trouble deciding how to spend my gold. How much is too much to spend on enhancements, etc.

I'll write up a few builds and get to submitting one, then.

Also, I take it that it's fine to enter multiple times, after one finishes playing a character?

[Talic]

I'm about to enter a second character, as the first lost to a concession. He wasn't as fun as I'd like.

[ex cathedra]

Cool, cool. I'm just bouncing around ideas for builds.

Can we use bloodlines (UA) if we think they'd be beneficial?

[Talic]

I don't recall seeing them banned, and Tide's pretty permissive. I'm debating building a hulking hurler. Hm.

[Doc Roc]

While bloodlines are not banned, I take a conservative (sensible) reading of them, so don't go chasing after the super-binder. I'm torn on the hulking hurler. On one hand, it's hilarious, on the other it may have problems keeping its ammunition stocked and some arenas may be wholly prohibitive for it.


Please, submit your character sheets to me. If you'd like, you can use this thread to try and organize your search for murdermates.

[Saph]

OK, I'm finishing up a character at the moment. I'm not quite sure if its power level is up to what you're looking for, but I'll PM you the link once I'm done.

I think after looking at the fate of the 2v2 match, I'd rather play 1v1. It's exponentially easier to get two people online and posting at the same time than it is to get four.

- Saph

[ex cathedra]

I see. Out of curiosity, then, would blood lines, as per the next-to-last paragraph on page 19 of UA, progress Hellfire warlock damage past the classes' third level?

I'll be able to submit my character sometime today or tomorrow, I expect. Thanks.

[Doc Roc]

Hellfire yes, but you can't use any of my initiator builds or JWW's binder builds, because I'm ruling they don't work quite that way.

[Doc Roc]

I think after looking at the fate of the 2v2 match, I'd rather play 1v1. It's exponentially easier to get two people online and posting at the same time than it is to get four.

- Saph

That was my thought as well. Originally 2v2s were disallowed.
But as you can team up in the dungeon and will probably need to, I relented against my better judgement. :)

[Ratflail]

Ok then, which of the new competitors wants to face me?

[Saph]

I could give you a match, assuming my character gets approved. What time do you want to schedule it for?

- Saph

[ex cathedra]

I don't recall seeing this in the first two posts, so excuse me if I missed it:

How much HP per level? Roll, average, max?

[Talic]

Level 1 is max, all further HD are average, per standard rules for creating characters above level 1.

[Saph]

OK, character's approved. Now I need an opponent and (optionally) a DM.

Any takers? :P

- Saph

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Me, if my current game doesn't go well.

[Ratflail]

I already called dibs on facing one of the new opponents, so i'll face Saph. Now, who's DMing?

[Saph]

I don't think any DMs are around at the moment. Talic and Tidesinger both have a bunch of other things on their plate.

If you've gotten your character approved, we could play without a DM. It's much faster, but does require that both players trust each other fairly well. :P

- Saph

[Talic]

If it helps, I'll vouch that Saph is trustworthy, as far as I've seen. And if the arena is remarkably simple, I can step in for LOS issues from time to time.

[Ratflail]

I have experience DMPCing without any cases of power trips, so I trust myself not to try and cheat. Now there's the issue of whether you trust me or not, and where we will get a map from.

[Talic]

One interesting option involves the arena in my sig. They've got plenty of arenas in the front page of the waiting room, and I doubt they'd mind you lifting one.

[Saph]

That, or I could just copy the map I was using for the Test of Might trial. It's small, so lends to battles that are resolved fairly quickly.

- Saph

[ex cathedra]

I'm up for a game. Character is finished, submitted, and apparently approved.

[Doc Roc]

I'll try and hunt down additional willing GMs.

[ex cathedra]

Question:


Fighter is banned, excluding dungeoncrasher.


Why?

I mean, I see why Alter Self/Poly/Metamorphosis, etc. are banned.
I see why Incantatrix is banned.
I see why Monk should be full BAB.
So on, and so forth.

But Fighter?

I admit that it isn't all that useful, especially given flaws.. but I don't see why it's banned.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Because fixing the Fighter would basically make it the Warblade?

[Doc Roc]

Fighter is banned basically out of habit, because fixing it is more trouble than it is worth to me, and I'd like the classes to all at least be playable as non-dips. Fighter is a 2 or a 4 dip excluding super-specialized builds.

[Talic]

Because fighter is a class that every broken (non-fullcaster) build splashes two levels in, for feats, but rarely is used for anything but a couple free feats. Such builds are never defined by Fighter.

Dungeoncrasher, however, is largely defined by the class, and the ability. Fighter, almost every other case, is bland, and flavorless, and serves only for <Insert Filler Here>.

By contrast, a Feat Rogue (give up sneak attack for fighter bonus feats) isn't as useful for splashing because of non-full BAB. However, it keeps all the skillmonkey abilities of the rogue, and ends up being actually viable for a central theme.

[ex cathedra]

An excellent point, I suppose.

[Doc Roc]

Basically, it stems from a particular set of my own builds which become impractical without it.

[ex cathedra]

I see. It just struck me as odd.

Anyways, could I get the specifics on the Mind Blank checks/changes?

You know, out of curiosity and entirely unrelated to any character I might have submitted.

[Saph]

OK, I'm all ready. I've created a thread plus arena in Ongoing Games. Anyone who wants a match, come along here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6340594#post6340594) and let's have some fun. :)

- Saph

[Adumbration]

I'm looking to join. Where should I toss in my character sheet, once it's finished?

EDIT: Also, would you consider extending full BaB offer to Soulknife too?

[Talic]

I'm looking to join. Where should I toss in my character sheet, once it's finished?

EDIT: Also, would you consider extending full BaB offer to Soulknife too?

*coughsoulbowcough* Problem with altering too many BAB's is that it lowers the minimum level some of those classes can gain PrC's.

[ex cathedra]

Soulbows are rather nice. I'm quite fond of the class, but I'm not sure how to use it well.

[Doc Roc]

Please PM it to me, in a format of your choice.

Soulknife is dead to me, now that carnivore is gone. ;)
Soulbow is good enough that I'm not willing to make qualification easier by giving the SK full bab.

[Doc Roc]

On wotco, there are some great guides to proper soul-bowing.

[Adumbration]

Please PM it to me, in a format of your choice.

Soulknife is dead to me, now that carnivore is gone. ;)
Soulbow is good enough that I'm not willing to make qualification easier by giving the SK full bab.

BaB is not among the requirements for Soulbow - Autohypnosis is.

Damnit, I knew I shouldn't have spoken anything, now everyone knows what I'm going for. :smallsigh:

[Talic]

The common Soulbow build is Zen Archery + Wisdom focus. That way you use wisdom to hit, wisdom to damage. Feat selection is generally per ranged combat.

Oddly enough, ECL 13 is just a touch too low for me to try my ranged combat idea I've been tossing around.

[Adumbration]

The common Soulbow build is Zen Archery + Wisdom focus. That way you use wisdom to hit, wisdom to damage. Feat selection is generally per ranged combat.

Oddly enough, ECL 13 is just a touch too low for me to try my ranged combat idea I've been tossing around.

I should know. I once made 18th level gestalt character for another arena match using Soulbow.

Anyway, how are hitpoints determined? Couldn't find it in the first post.

[Talic]

Max first level, average after that (fractions always round down in D&D).

18th Gestalt? I'd go for Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade over Soulbow. There's more beefy goodness in it.

[Eloel]

I should know. I once made 18th level gestalt charactergod for another arena match using Soulbow.

Anyway, how are hitpoints determined? Couldn't find it in the first post.

Fixed for you. 18th level gestalt is NOT character :)

[Adumbration]

Max first level, average after that (fractions always round down in D&D).

18th Gestalt? I'd go for Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade over Soulbow. There's more beefy goodness in it.

Yes, well, if memory serves, you DID do that, so I couldn't very well do the same, could I? Besides, that trick is a bit too cheesy in my opinion. You really shouldn't be allowed to throw your axe at EVERY square in the arena with the same action.

EDIT: Anyway, the character is pretty much done now. PMing Tidesinger.

[Doc Roc]

Not... sure why not.. ;)

[Talic]

Yes, well, if memory serves, you DID do that, so I couldn't very well do the same, could I? Besides, that trick is a bit too cheesy in my opinion. You really shouldn't be allowed to throw your axe at EVERY square in the arena with the same action.

EDIT: Anyway, the character is pretty much done now. PMing Tidesinger.

What? The bloodstorm blade's capstone explicitly says you can choose as many targets as you like, and squares are valid targets. Make sure the javelin has distance, seeking, and revealing, and add in bracers of distance and the far shot feat, and you can be throwing javelins at every square within 1000 feet. Bypass concealment for invisible targets, put on a truedeath crystal for ghost touch, and if you can draw LOS to it and hit it, you can light it up for a round.

After that, it's just a matter of activating a belt of battle, and switching to the Hulking Hurler weapon, which is typically for me, a block of Iron Fabricated from a casting or two of Wall of Iron, and weighing in at 17,000 pounds or so. Another full attack later, and whatever is lit up, is usually knocked down.

[Adumbration]

What? The bloodstorm blade's capstone explicitly says you can choose as many targets as you like, and squares are valid targets. Make sure the javelin has distance, seeking, and revealing, and add in bracers of distance and the far shot feat, and you can be throwing javelins at every square within 1000 feet. Bypass concealment for invisible targets, put on a truedeath crystal for ghost touch, and if you can draw LOS to it and hit it, you can light it up for a round.

After that, it's just a matter of activating a belt of battle, and switching to the Hulking Hurler weapon, which is typically for me, a block of Iron Fabricated from a casting or two of Wall of Iron, and weighing in at 17,000 pounds or so. Another full attack later, and whatever is lit up, is usually knocked down.

Couldn't and shouldn't are two different things. :smalltongue:

[ex cathedra]

Bah. Our duel was interrupted. Oh, well.

I understand the basics of soulbow-ing, I just have trouble with making the builds come together. I had been trying one out with six ranger levels, so that I could dump dex, but I wasn't comfortable with taking that many ranger levels at all. I don't know. Perhaps I'll look for a handbook, assuming one has been made for them. I somehow doubt that it has.

[Adumbration]

Out of curiosity, do people here think that Soulbows should be able to Two-weapon fight with their mind bullets?

[ex cathedra]

I do, because mind-gunslinging is just stylish.

[Adumbration]

Anyone wanting a match, sign here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115754

[Talic]

Out of curiosity, do people here think that Soulbows should be able to Two-weapon fight with their mind bullets?

I think that dumping dex entirely is a mistake. A good dex lets you TWF the mind shot, which is more attacks per round. If anything, Str can be dumped.

Str, and Int are safe dumps, along with Cha. Now it's Wis primary, Dex/Con Secondary.

18 Wis, 14 Dex, 14 Con, and put 1 stat boost in dex (2 in Wis), and you qualify for the TWF line to 13th level. You have a 20 base Wis (lesser Aasimar gives you 22) and an item of Wis +6 puts you at 28 wis, which is an additional +9 to hit and damage. Assuming you have 8 levels of Soulbow, your shots are doing 1d8+17 each, and you can, with a full TWF attack and rapid shot, get 5-7 shots.

[ex cathedra]

Well, I've lost. I'm just not yet sure how completely.

[Adumbration]

You know, after seeing some of the fights, I'm starting to think that my character is simply not powerful enough. In the other hand, there's also another character concept that I would be eager to embrace.

The open challenge stands still, of course.

[Saph]

Don't worry about it, I felt the same way. Actually, even though it looks like I've won my match with aether, I'm still not sure if my character's up to the level he'll need to be. Still need the go-ahead from Tidesinger, anyway.

- Saph

[Adumbration]

Don't worry about it, I felt the same way. Actually, even though it looks like I've won my match with aether, I'm still not sure if my character's up to the level he'll need to be. Still need the go-ahead from Tidesinger, anyway.

- Saph

Well, considering that the damage you can easily deal in a round is almost triple the maximum damage my character might be able to deal, I feel there's plenty of improvement to make.

I think I might make the quintessential ToB character.

[Saph]

Well, considering that the damage you can easily deal in a round is almost triple the maximum damage my character might be able to deal, I feel there's plenty of improvement to make.

Oh, you can always improve a character. That's just how it goes - you never finish tweaking it, and every battle you find there's one more thing that you forgot to add that would be really useful. I was kicking myself for not getting a certain magic item in the fight with Aether.

ToB fighters can be pretty fun. They're good out of the box, and can be improved on too.

- Saph

[Adumbration]

Oh, you can always improve a character. That's just how it goes - you never finish tweaking it, and every battle you find there's one more thing that you forgot to add that would be really useful. I was kicking myself for not getting a certain magic item in the fight with Aether.

ToB fighters can be pretty fun. They're good out of the box, and can be improved on too.

- Saph

Jeah, I just remembered a thread once, where a guy created a 20th level character for each style to see which was best. Then he pitted them against each other in single combat.

Too bad it went with the purge, I think. It was very nice.

[ex cathedra]

I was terrified of that wallop damage, so I didn't dare give you a chance to full attack; had I, I'm sure you could've taken me in two rounds. Ego Whip, Schism, and Vigor all seem quite powerful to me, though. I don't regularly make psions, so it was a bit of a test for me.

[Adumbration]

Does anyone know of an armor with great maximum dexterity? I'm in a bit of a dilemma here.

[ex cathedra]

Celestial? Fly 1/day, max +8 dex iirc. I think it's in the DMG.

[Adumbration]

Celestial? Fly 1/day, max +8 dex iirc. I think it's in the DMG.

Hmm. Not enough, I'm afraid. Is it possible to enchant a plain shirt?

[Saph]

Typically they're robes, not shirts. You can put an armour bonus on a robe, like the Robe of the Archmagi in the DMG, and it functions pretty much the same as armour.

Or you could just get a mage armour spell, if you want to do it on the cheap.

- Saph

[Adumbration]

Typically they're robes, not shirts. You can put an armour bonus on a robe, like the Robe of the Archmagi in the DMG, and it functions pretty much the same as armour.

Or you could just get a mage armour spell, if you want to do it on the cheap.

- Saph

Is it by the rules in DMG - a +4 armor enhancement costs 16 000 - or is there a later rule somewhere, such as in Magic Item compedium?

[Saph]

Is it by the rules in DMG - a +4 armor enhancement costs 16 000 - or is there a later rule somewhere, such as in Magic Item compedium?

MiC rules are exactly the same. It's annoyingly overpriced, but eh. At 13th level you can afford it.

Is a +8 max dex really not enough, though? If your dex is only a point or two over that, you're probably better off sticking with the armour rather than trying to enchant a set of clothes.

- Saph

[Adumbration]

MiC rules are exactly the same. It's annoyingly overpriced, but eh. At 13th level you can afford it.

Is a +8 max dex really not enough, though? If your dex is only a point or two over that, you're probably better off sticking with the armour rather than trying to enchant a set of clothes.

- Saph

Well, I'm also wearing a robe, so I thought I might as well slap some armor enhancement on it.

[Eurus]

There's always Bracers of Armor. No max dex bonus on those.

[Adumbration]

Another question...

For an example, the average of a d10 HD is 5.5. Is it rounded there, or do you first multiply it by 13, and then round down?

[Ratflail]

Well my character, while not "Weak", is not exactly what you'd call "powerful". I do, however, have plans to win, regardless.

[Doc Roc]

In general, my presumption is the most favorable ruling when it comes to HP. You'll need it.

Saph, I'll have a dungeon entrance up for you soon, and I've added your match and a commendation for Aethernox to the first post. It was a real pleasure to watch that battle. Thank you both so much! :)

If you need a little downtime and a chance to rest, that's permitted before entering the dungeon. Also, you should check the thread. I've followed up on your lovely straight line with some nice ridiculously-over-the-top horror tropes.

[Adumbration]

In general, my presumption is the most favorable ruling when it comes to HP. You'll need it.


Alright. Let me know if there's any mistakes with the sheet.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I fear Talic can no longer DM the Test of Spite for us and I would like to know if anyone is free.

[Doc Roc]

I fear that's my fault. I should grid that map out, but ugh, I just don't know what shape to use for the coordinate system that would actually be helpful.

[Saph]

Thread's updated, Tide. Glad you enjoyed the match. :P

Pharoah, I could DM a 1v1 for you if you like, but I'd have trouble with a 2v2. Also, it's be a relatively simple, small map, so as to minimise the amount of work for me.

- Saph

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll wait to hear back from Talic before pronouncing it dead.

I may have to take you up on it, though. I'll decide by Friday.

Why not?

However, can we have it so that the opponent goes to Ravenloft, even if he doesn't win?

I'd hate to have Talic put up a fresh map, everyone participate, and then have two of me running around Ravenloft.

[Doc Roc]

Additional info added to the thread. I may go ahead and put your dungeon entrance in there, if you'd rename the thread appropriately. It's impossible to meet other combatants until fairly far into the dungeon, so we should be okay this way.

[Talic]

Incidentally, 2v2 has the new map. Fun times.

[ex cathedra]

I've decided on my next build.

It may have several awkward similarities to Ignis, which I'm trying to avoid.

[Doc Roc]

Nothing wrong with imitation as flattery!

[Saph]

Why not?

However, can we have it so that the opponent goes to Ravenloft, even if he doesn't win?

I'd hate to have Talic put up a fresh map, everyone participate, and then have two of me running around Ravenloft.

That one's up to Tidesinger. As long as it gives him more fodder to kill off, I doubt he'll mind too much. PM me if you find a murder-mate and I'll make you a thread.


I've decided on my next build.

It may have several awkward similarities to Ignis, which I'm trying to avoid.

Maybe I've started a fashion trend!

- Saph

[Doc Roc]

Worst case, I shove one of your duplicates into a room with another and make you kill yourself till there's just one left. I supposed I'd need to make the gear go away somehow, and I can't see giving out Exp for this, so I recommend just avoiding it.. :) If you like, I'm fine with allowing the non-you to advance regardless of outcome.

[Adumbration]

Tidesinger, am I good to go with my other character?

[Doc Roc]

By my accounts, yes.

[Adumbration]

By my accounts, yes.

Excellent. Sorry to bug you so much, it's just that my adversary is waiting. Now I can go and fight him.

[Doc Roc]

Not a bother in the slightest. :)

[Melamoto]

Hey, Tidesinger, I have a build idea which, while not finished yet, I feel I could probably get to work. Now, before I put effort into making it work, i'd like to ask a few questions to assure that it will work. Firstly,

Can we use the epic versions of skills if we have a high enough modifier to pass the DCs, i.e. try to pass the skill uses listed in the epic handbook?

[Doc Roc]

In general, yes, but diplomacy, bluff, and its compatriots are GM adjudicated rather than table driven. No hypnotizing your opponent with a charming dance routine unless that's actually a spell.

[Melamoto]

Don't worry, that wasn't what I had in mind.
Next question: Can we bring any creatures that we tamed in the past with handle animal into the dungeon? Or is there a limit?

[Saph]

Hey, Tide - just a note that I'm all set to give the dungeon a try. Give me a heads up when you're ready.

- Saph

[Doc Roc]

I will, class just dropped into hard-mode briefly. If someone would see to yahzi\olo's match briefly, I'd be grateful as all get out.

[Doc Roc]

Don't worry, that wasn't what I had in mind.
Next question: Can we bring any creatures that we tamed in the past with handle animal into the dungeon? Or is there a limit?

It depends on if you can keep the hounds from eating him, her, or it when they come to get you. :)

[Archetype-]

<hops out of a random Leman Russ tank... not sure which varient it is today>

Heh, this looks like some good old-fashioned PvP fun. I really have no preference as to whom I fight, but I do believe I have a fun concept for it. It has yet to be fleshed out, but I can sum it up in three words.

Thri-kreen. Warblade. GILGAMESH! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_(Final_Fantasy)#Gilgamesh)

Whaddaya say? :smallbiggrin:

[Pharaoh's Fist]

<hops out of a random Leman Russ tank... not sure which varient it is today>
The Repercussionator.



Heh, this looks like some good old-fashioned PvP fun. I really have no preference as to whom I fight, but I do believe I have a fun concept for it. It has yet to be fleshed out, but I can sum it up in three words.

Thri-kreen. Warblade. GILGAMESH! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh_(Final_Fantasy)#Gilgamesh)

Whaddaya say? :smallbiggrin:

If I have to drop out of my match tomorrow, then I shall take you on.

[Melamoto]

It depends on if you can keep the hounds from eating him, her, or it when they come to get you. :)
Actually, I think I can. Given everything else you have said, my final question is:




Is there a Tarrasque in Ravenloft?

[Doc Roc]

The hounds are my substitute, and are significantly stronger.

Because, seriously... Toughness?


Toughness?

Smooth, WotC.

[Melamoto]

Yeah, that kind of sucks. But I was still hoping that a 48HD Colossal creature with DR 15/Epic, a bunch of immunities and a +57 melee attack would at least be able to kill a few level 13s. How powerful are these hounds anyways? And could I have one of them instead?

[imperialspectre]

I have a character ready and approved. Work schedule is off and on, but I should be available at least some of the day, any day this week except Saturday.

[Doc Roc]

How powerful are these hounds anyways? And could I have one of them instead?

The hounds aren't too bad alone, at least by char-op, but there's infinitely many of them. There's two or three ways to shut it off, but that'd spoil the bag-o-tricks. You can run from them, that works fairly well.

Having a hound is a categorically bad plan, as I think you have the owner-pet relationship reversed. The full name of the hounds is the hounds of tindalos, if that helps you benchmark them.

[Yahzi]

I will, class just dropped into hard-mode briefly. If someone would see to yahzi\olo's match briefly, I'd be grateful as all get out.
I don't think anybody else understands the map you picked well enough to DM it.

If you like, Olo and I could restart with a new DM on a plain, simple map that consists of a very large room with a minimum of features - say, a large tree at one end and a 10 x 10 free-standing wall at the other.

That way the DMing would be more about managing character interaction and less about managing the map.

[Doc Roc]

I actually am really fond of the map, and would like to keep running it. :: sad face :: I'll see what I can do tonight.

[imperialspectre]

Tidesinger: I can play a round on your map, if someone has an opfor.

[Ratflail]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115754&page=3

My latest post says it all.

[Adumbration]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115754&page=3

My latest post says it all.

Good game. Twice I thought the game was over on my side - when the Flesh to Stone was cast, and when Anti-life shell was cast, before I realized that it's a full-round action to cast it.

[Ratflail]

And I had a Slay Living left up my sleeves, I just never had a chance to use it. Damn Touch spells, and damn your whatever-the-hell-was-forcing-those-will-saves for making me use up my Rebuke Undead attempts which I could have used to Divine Metamagic it into a beam. Not that it would have hit anyway.

[Adumbration]

And I had a Slay Living left up my sleeves, I just never had a chance to use it. Damn Touch spells, and damn your whatever-the-hell-was-forcing-those-will-saves for making me use up my Rebuke Undead attempts which I could have used to Divine Metamagic it into a beam. Not that it would have hit anyway.

Ah, so it was useful. I had no idea what the Divine Surge was, so I kept the effect on for a while just for the miss chance. The cause of the effect was Robe of Scintillating colors, I'm not afraid to admit it now.

[Ratflail]

Damn. If undead were still immune to mind affecting abilities, I could probably have wiped the floor with you. Especially as you would have had a decent chance to be killed by my Ghoul's paralysing touch, which only missed due to concealment.

Anyways, well done to you, and good luck in the Dungeon.

So, any fellow losers want to face me, or an alternate character I was considering using?

[Doc Roc]

Sorry about removing that immunity, but this does kind of prove the point :: gentle grin ::

[imperialspectre]

Quick question: how is Iron Heart Surge being ruled? Thanks.

[Doc Roc]

I haven't settled on a ruling I like, yes. But right now, note this:

Does nothing to effects derived from continuous exposure to an external source, such as being in an AMF. Suppresses indefinitely the effects of something with an external source, but only for the initiator.

[Doc Roc]

Okay, I need some more dungeon gms. badly.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Okay, I need some more dungeon gms. badly.

Why must you bite off more than you can chew?

Oh, and I'm in on the monkening.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'm in as well, but you already knew that.

[Adumbration]

By the way, I'm less than clear on how the looting process goes. Could someone clarify it?

[Eloel]

Will we get to restart our match on a different arena, or keep going?

[ex cathedra]

Assuming a character of mine gets OK'd, I'm up for a match.

[Saph]

I'm willing to DM a match if anyone wants, since it looks like Talic and Tide are overloaded.

It'll be 1v1, and designed for relatively quick-and-deadly combat (as I've noticed that slower-paced matches usually never finish).

- Saph

[Adumbration]

By the way, I'm less than clear on how the looting process goes. Could someone clarify it?

Reposting on this page, since I really doubt that anyone will check the last page in any time soon. :smallsmile:

[ex cathedra]

Ask your opponent for their character sheet, or ask them for a list of items?

[Ratflail]

Assuming a character of mine gets OK'd, I'm up for a match.
You got beaten by Saph, right? I'll face you with a new character of my own.

[Adumbration]

You got beaten by Saph, right? I'll face you with a new character of my own.

Could you pm me your old char sheet then, for some loot, loot, loot?

[ex cathedra]

You got beaten by Saph, right? I'll face you with a new character of my own.

That would be cool, but it seems I PMed my sheet to tide just a few minutes after he left.

[Adumbration]

Since my PM, too, apparently went in wee bit late, could someone answer some questions of mine?

- Can I sell/purchase items at this point?
- If I can, is it for full market price, or half?
- How much XP did I get for that - same as usual for CR 13 encounter?

[Saph]

- Can I sell/purchase items at this point?
- If I can, is it for full market price, or half?

Depends if you're near a shop. If you stop by a major city on the way to the dungeon, I assume you can go shopping as normal (buy for full, sell for half)


- How much XP did I get for that - same as usual for CR 13 encounter?

Assuming your enemy was level 13, yup.

- Saph

[Adumbration]

Depends if you're near a shop. If you stop by a major city on the way to the dungeon, I assume you can go shopping as normal (buy for full, sell for half)



Assuming your enemy was level 13, yup.

- Saph

Well, considering that a fog is closing in on me, it doesn't look good. Which means that I'll be henceforward carrying a bag full of black onyx gems and a cloak of charisma, too. Too bad, I would've loved to have bought a Portable Hole.

[Ratflail]

Don't blame me for the gems, I figured that i'd need some more muscle when I entered the Dungeon; and that if someone was powerful enough to get in the dungeon, then their body would suffice.

[Adumbration]

Don't blame me for the gems, I figured that i'd need some more muscle when I entered the Dungeon; and that if someone was powerful enough to get in the dungeon, then their body would suffice.

I won't, I won't. Not a bad idea, although you would've gotten the suckiest zombie ever out of my goblin's corpse. :smalltongue:

[Doc Roc]

The normal gig is that if you ask, you may spend 24 hours in Sigil to turn around gear you cannot use.

[Eloel]

Tide, will/can we get a new map and/or keep going? We're the 2v2 fight in the crowded map with offices & stuff.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

We already got a new map.

[ex cathedra]

Excellent; character approved. I'll be accepting challenges, then. :smallsmile:

[Eloel]

We already got a new map.

Oh. I need to find the thread then :p

[Doc Roc]

It's in the first post. :|

[imperialspectre]

Still looking for a fight.

Well, looking for a kill, then hoping to figure out the dungeon, but an interesting fight would be nice. :P

[Eloel]

I'll create a new character tomorrow, if we can have multiple characters. Then I'll be open for a 1v1.

[Ratflail]

Excellent; character approved. I'll be accepting challenges, then. :smallsmile:
I CHALLENGE YOOOOUUUUUU

[ex cathedra]

Accepted. Are any DMs open..?

[Ratflail]

Ok then, lets just do a match without a DM. Typically, very little needs to be done by the GM in a 1v1, as long as nobody cheats/metagames.

[Talic]

Ok then, lets just do a match without a DM. Typically, very little needs to be done by the GM in a 1v1, as long as nobody cheats/metagames.

Or someone hides.

[Ratflail]

That can still be managed as long as the Players act like they don't know when they make their move. As long as both players are trustworthy.

[Talic]

That can still be managed as long as the Players act like they don't know when they make their move. As long as both players are trustworthy.

That's a very tall order. On some level, players know, and that makes them not think of things they would otherwise think of, or think of things that they'd otherwise not know.

[Melamoto]

Ok then, if the need arises, then you or any other DM can take a look and decide. Quite a few of these characters won't even have stealth, so it won't likely come up.

[mostlyharmful]

Ok, I'm in the process of comming up with a PC for this Monk test thing from the Out of Curiosity thread, I'll probly be good by Monday for a Rogue so this is the required hello thinie I think I'm supposed to post to say I exist so far as all this is concerned...... helloo!

:smallsmile:

[ex cathedra]

I suppose so, but I'd still rather have a GM, if only for stealth/LoS purposes. But, that does admittedly slow down the match, so I guess we could do without. Anyways, make a thread and I'll join.

[Doc Roc]

I'll surf by whenever I'm needed. :)

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Ok, I'm in the process of comming up with a PC for this Monk test thing from the Out of Curiosity thread, I'll probly be good by Monday for a Rogue so this is the required hello thinie I think I'm supposed to post to say I exist so far as all this is concerned...... helloo!

:smallsmile:

Advice: As we'll have a druid and a monk for melee, I advise you concentrate on skills.

[Sir Giacomo]

So just to make sure (hi everyone I am the monk in the monkening dungeon test of spite :smallbiggrin:):

Pharao's fist: Evoker (wizard/arcane caster part)
Stoopidtallkid: Druid (divinve caster part)
Mostlyharmful: Druid (scout/rogue part)
Me: Monk (tank part)

I'd suggest that the monk does the scout/skillmonkey/rogue part, since a druid does not have move silently and hide as class skills, but - hey - we can also do it this way first.

EDIT: Pharao's Fist just notified me: there is not going to be two druids, but a druid and a rogue. So of course the monk will take the tank part.
Fine with me! Rogues and monks make great combat duos.EDIT END

My current status (depending on what the participants think) also is:
1) core rules (PHB/DMG/MM)
2) no item more than 1/4 of wbl (as per DMG p.199)
3) level 11

Do you wish to be able to start buffed with long-term buffs (hr/lvl) or not?

- Giacomo

[Pharaoh's Fist]

So just to make sure (hi everyone I am the monk in the monkening dungeon test of spite :smallbiggrin:):

Pharao's fist: Evoker (wizard/arcane caster part)
Sorcerer. Concession to you and the party.



3) level 11

DM told me to make a level 12 character.

[Ratflail]

Aethernox:

Thread's up. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6370038#post6370038)

[ex cathedra]

Replied, but your link seems off, by the way. Good luck. :smallsmile:

[Sir Giacomo]

Sorcerer. Concession to you and the party.


DM told me to make a level 12 character.

Lvl 12 is fine with me.

- Giacomo

[Ratflail]

Fixed the link.

[ex cathedra]

Ratflail and I finished up our match, by the way.

[Doc Roc]

I will be away for most of the weekend, and unable to manage the various tests and thread. I'll have a write up of the first quarter of the dungeon pretty soon, so by the next time this happens hopefully i'll be irrelevant.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Jaya Ballard, Taskmage (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=27023)

[Ratflail]

No LA above +1...

could you take a race with a +1 LA and a template with a +1 LA, or does it mean no more than +1 LA in total?

Also, can you take Monster Classes?

[Saph]

Jaya Ballard, Taskmage

Love the name. :P

(used to play M:tG a lot a long time ago, and saw that name many many times on flavour text.)

- Saph

[ex cathedra]

Quite terrific. It's a bit odd that I saw a Taskmage PrC in the homebrew forum a few hours ago.

By the way, what's that for?

[Saph]

I mostly remember her for one of the quotes. "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight EVERYTHING with fire." The true D&D attitude. :P

- Saph

[ex cathedra]

Kill it with Fire (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115268).

Indeed.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Quite terrific. It's a bit odd that I saw a Taskmage PrC in the homebrew forum a few hours ago.

By the way, what's that for?

The Giacomo playtest.


Love the name. :P
A lovely name for a lovely lady. (Much like yourself :smallwink:)

[ex cathedra]

The Giacomo playtest.

I'm not acquainted.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I'm not acquainted.

Be acquainted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116095)

[Olo Demonsbane]

After seeing the massive DM work overload, I have made a new thread for Yahzi and myself, self run. I trust no one has any objections...?

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6376142#post6376142

[Olo Demonsbane]

If my character dies, I am planning to make another...

Would you consider allowing a feat similar to Battle Blessing, only for Rangers? I have a character idea that I have been meaning to try out...
Nevermind, the stinky Gouda that I was cooking up doesnt work :smallfrown:

Still planning on making the character though.