Test of Spite [D&D 3.5]

[imperialspectre]

Olo: Did you take a peek at Cav's previous match? If so, let me know so I can return the favor. :)

Also, I realized after the last match that I didn't need a magic item worth over 10,000 gp, and also that I was entitled to more spells known according to the match rules. These errors have now been fixed, and Cavrin 1.1 is now ready for an exhibition whenever you post the link.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I didnt.

Fight Fight Fight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6688187#post6688187)

[Doc Roc]

Hey Tide, can we use spontaneous divine caster variant? More specifically, spontaneous druid?

Nope! Sorry, but that stuff is made-of-crazy.

[Claudius Maximus]

A question for those who are in charge of the ToS:

What are we and are we not allowed to do during buff rounds? Buffing, obviously, and apparently hiding, but what else? Can we move? Can we see our opponent(s)? Are we able to cast spells on the battlefield or summon monsters? You should have a clear ruling on this, because I've seen some of these actions attempted and I'm not sure if they're allowed.

Another question: Do spells that take you to the Ethereal Plane or the Plane of Shadow function? If planar travel is nonfunctional, what happens when you put a Portable Hole in a Bag of Holding, or break a Staff of Power? I'm not familiar with Ravenloft, so I don't know these things.

[Signmaker]

Army of creatures vs. Anti-Army druid.

This is going to be one hell of a fight, Olo.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I know! Made of Pure awesome as rays of various energies are about to be thrown at your druid!

[Milskidasith]

Man I so want my new and improved (or it will be) cleric to go after both of your characters. At CL +10, I'd kill both of you if I could reach you and paralyze all of Olo's creatures (if they were within a 40 foot radius).

[Talic]

A question for those who are in charge of the ToS:

What are we and are we not allowed to do during buff rounds? Buffing, obviously, and apparently hiding, but what else? Can we move? Can we see our opponent(s)? Are we able to cast spells on the battlefield or summon monsters? You should have a clear ruling on this, because I've seen some of these actions attempted and I'm not sure if they're allowed.

Another question: Do spells that take you to the Ethereal Plane or the Plane of Shadow function? If planar travel is nonfunctional, what happens when you put a Portable Hole in a Bag of Holding, or break a Staff of Power? I'm not familiar with Ravenloft, so I don't know these things.

My opinion:
Defensive actions are allowed in the buff rounds.

Examples:
Things you can do: Cast spells that target yourself, cast spells that affect your general area, use skills that don't require movement or interaction (hide, disguise, etc).

Things you cannot do: Affect your opponent's half of the battlefield in any way, call in creatures, Make any opposed roll with an opponent, perform any action that would break a Sanctuary or Invisibility spell.

My understanding of Ravenloft is that living creatures cannot leave. This would not impair the functioning of items such as a bag of holding, provided creatures weren't put into it.

[Talic]

Man I so want my new and improved (or it will be) cleric to go after both of your characters. At CL +10, I'd kill both of you if I could reach you and paralyze all of Olo's creatures (if they were within a 40 foot radius).

You can try to face Magimelt. :D

[Fax Celestis]

Two questions: Miniatures Handbook okay? And what about playing a giant eagle? They're 4HD, +2 LA.

[Milskidasith]

You can try to face Magimelt. :D

Every one of your characters makes me cry. I want one question about your character, though (you can ask one about mine too). If you answer that, I'll give it a shot, once I alter the character, anyway. I haven't quite finished figuring out where I'm going to make cuts on my items.

[Talic]

Every one of your characters makes me cry. I want one question about your character, though (you can ask one about mine too). If you answer that, I'll give it a shot, once I alter the character, anyway. I haven't quite finished figuring out where I'm going to make cuts on my items.

Sure thing. I'll even answer it publically.

[Milskidasith]

I'd like to know your exact alignment on one of the axes. Which one doesn't matter.

Edit: Also, I hope this isn't another AMF guy. >_<

[Talic]

I'd like to know your exact alignment on one of the axes. Which one doesn't matter.

Edit: Also, I hope this isn't another AMF guy. >_<

The character is True neutral.

My question: How many HP does your character have, at full health, with typical all day buffs on?

[Milskidasith]

100, revision will probably lower this to 87. (The character still isn't entirely revised yet, and I'm going to bed soon tonight.) I'll tell you the exact answer once he is ready.

[Talic]

Ok, just making sure he's in the one shot range for me. As you did, for you.

[Milskidasith]

The epic battle of... initiative checks. :smallbiggrin:

[Olo Demonsbane]

The awesome druid is defeated.

Sign, you win a cookie and an internet for that character. It was so freakin awesome I cant even believe it :smallbiggrin:

[Signmaker]

Tornados are fun.

Too bad your cronies weren't imperial stormtrooper-grade though. My tactic probably would have worked better had they were.

Incidentally, the highest level spell I had left at the end was a single 4th level flame strike.

[Milskidasith]

I take it dealing 110 damage in a single blow is easy for your character, right Talic?

[Olo Demonsbane]

I had 3 6th level spells...:smalleek:

[Signmaker]

Olo, my highest spell levels are reserved solely for buffs and burning slots to make tornados. By the way, said tornado will keep going for the next 6 hours. :smallcool:

[Talic]

I take it dealing 110 damage in a single blow is easy for your character, right Talic?

A single attack? Heavens, no. I can't imagine a single attack dealing more than 52.5 damage (on average).

But only getting one attack in is so BORING.

And I rarely focus on my initiative. Too many other things to focus on.


Olo, my highest spell levels are reserved solely for buffs and burning slots to make tornados. By the way, said tornado will keep going for the next 6 hours. :smallcool:

Pray you don't face a StormLord, lol.

[Milskidasith]

Ah. I wonder how many attacks I'm taking here... probably a bunch of them with no save and somebody with a good ranged touch attack damage... huh. Super Metamagic'd scorching rays, maybe. I dunno.

[Talic]

Ah. I wonder how many attacks I'm taking here... probably a bunch of them with no save and somebody with a good ranged touch attack damage... huh. Super Metamagic'd searing rays, maybe. I dunno.

Well, he is definately a caster-theme. Not huge on the metamagic. In fact, not a single metamagic feat to his name.

[Milskidasith]

Huh. I have no clue what you are planning, then. If he's going to kill me in one round involving HP, though... could be tricky. I'm not too good on the whole AC thing... or HP thing.

[Talic]

Huh. I have no clue what you are planning, then. If he's going to kill me in one round involving HP, though... could be tricky. I'm not too good on the whole AC thing... or HP thing.

I don't like opposing AC. Too easy to build a character that has a 60 AC.

[Milskidasith]

Oh yeah, you like to say "no" to everything. We'll settle this in the ring then. Then I will learn what horrible high damaging/detrimental no save effects will ruin me. :(

[Talic]

Oh yeah, you like to say "no" to everything. We'll settle this in the ring then. Then I will learn what horrible high damaging/detrimental no save effects will ruin me. :(

Well, giving you "yes" would answer a question. And you already used your question. :p

[Milskidasith]

Yeah. My character is ready in everything but my spell list.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Huh. I have no clue what you are planning, then. If he's going to kill me in one round involving HP, though... could be tricky. I'm not too good on the whole AC thing... or HP thing.My guess? Power Word:X

[Talic]

Yeah. My character is ready in everything but my spell list.

Spell lists are the challenge. They'll make or break a caster.

EDIT: I realize that I misspoke. I do, in fact have a metamagic feat. Silent Spell, upon looking at the sheet closely.

[Milskidasith]

Of all the metamagic feats...

[Talic]

No, I don't have any effects to generate silence.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Ok...my character is Feebleminded and, as they are outside on the Material Plane, he is riding a Nightmare that is flying due Z-ward at 60ft per second.

Imperialspectre, on the other hand, just took 159 points of damage and ran away to his rope trick...leaving all of my minions to plot ways to kill him...I dont actually know how he survived that...

Assuming Wizard HD: 4+6x2.5+13xCon=160, lets say.
13xCon=141
Con=10+

Or...

AWHD: 19+13xCon=115
13xCon=96
Con=7+

Imperialspectre must have had over 31 Constitution, or over 25 Con and a means of healing himself.

I think he miscalculated, and the fight is mine.

[Talic]

Ok...my character is Feebleminded and, as they are outside on the Material Plane, he is riding a Nightmare that is flying due Z-ward at 60ft per second.

Imperialspectre, on the other hand, just took 159 points of damage and ran away to his rope trick...leaving all of my minions to plot ways to kill him...I dont actually know how he survived that...

Assuming Wizard HD: 4+6x2.5+13xCon=160, lets say.
13xCon=141
Con=10+

Or...

AWHD: 19+13xCon=115
13xCon=96
Con=7+

Imperialspectre must have had over 31 Constitution, or over 25 Con and a means of healing himself.

I think he miscalculated, and the fight is mine.

Improved Toughness, Temporary HP, etc etc.

Heck, there's a reserve feat that will grant you +13 Temp HP as a swift action, at this level. There are spells that grant more.

This isn't counting any Energy Resistance / Damage Reduction / Similar effect which you don't have access to.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Still...

Anyway, Tide, since the battle was on the material plane, how far away is the nearest town/village/city with a character capable of casting Heal? A Druid 13, Cleric 11, Archivist 9? My character has ~4k left, and no one wants to mess with the guy riding a Huge-sized flaming horse.

360ft per round = 3600ft per minute = 216000ft per hour = 40.909090...miles per hour.

Or half that, at a hustle.

Would this work?

[Talic]

Still...

Anyway, Tide, since the battle was on the material plane, how far away is the nearest town/village/city with a character capable of casting Heal? A Druid 13, Cleric 11, Archivist 9? My character has ~4k left, and no one wants to mess with the guy riding a Huge-sized flaming horse.

360ft per round = 3600ft per minute = 216000ft per hour = 40.909090...miles per hour.

Or half that, at a hustle.

Would this work?

Tactical movement and hustle speeds aren't long term travel speeds. If you note the comparisons for long term travel, it's considerably lower than tactical speed.

In other words: Horses can canter, and gallop short distance. They trot for long travel.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Ok...18 miles an hour at a hustle.

That get me anywhere?

[Doc Roc]

Probably no place you want to go riding a nightmare, if that place has L9-13 good aligned divine casters.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

"...It likes to chase its victims down to tire them out then proceed to do whatever it pleases to them..."


Nightmare’s power and toughness are each equal to the numbers of swamps you control.

[Fax Celestis]

Two questions: Miniatures Handbook okay? And what about playing a giant eagle? They're 4HD, +2 LA.

Bumpity-bumpity, bumpity-boo. [/quagmire]

[9mm]

I've used it, pretty much everything's open unless otherwise stated.

[Fax Celestis]

I ask about the eagles because they're LA +2 (cohort).

[Doc Roc]

Minis book is fine. May I ask why you want to play a giant eagle over one of the many other flight capable races with lower LA and better stats?

[Fax Celestis]

Minis book is fine. May I ask why you want to play a giant eagle over one of the many other flight capable races with lower LA and better stats?

Thematics. A giant eagle Beast Heart Adept with a posse of giant eagles just sounds cool. Also, free evasion. I dunno, I may swap it: still pondering my options.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Probably no place you want to go riding a nightmare, if that place has L9-13 good aligned divine casters.

They dont have to be good aligned...just capable of casting heal.

[Arakune]

They dont have to be good aligned...just capable of casting heal.

Bad Olo!

Stop abusing superior power in order to get what you want! There's a whole system dedicated to it and you need to sign up first!

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Nope! Sorry, but that stuff is made-of-crazy.


Then is there any other spontaneous/limited spells known Druid magic user other than Spirit Shaman?

EDIT: on an unrelAted matter, what about ambush drake only 7 HD and noLA

[Olo Demonsbane]

I need to know quickly...is there any chance I can get help within 3 hours of 18 miles per hour? This battle would be a lot more fun if I could...

[Doc Roc]

Ambush Drake is allowed for PCs. :)

[Doc Roc]

Thematics. A giant eagle Beast Heart Adept with a posse of giant eagles just sounds cool. Also, free evasion. I dunno, I may swap it: still pondering my options.

I'm inclined to allow it.


Olo, what int does feeblemind reduce you to?

[Milskidasith]

1 int, 1 charisma, and can't cast spells even if wisdom based (which sucks for clerics, since otherwise the spell doesn't hurt them. Self insert woo!)

[Olo Demonsbane]

Yep...my minions all are smart though...

It really sucks that you cant even use Intellegence based skills...I was going to summon a marlith to ride my nightmare. THAT would be a scary sight.

[Saph]

Olo, your character has the intelligence of a lizard. Anything more complicated than "fire bad! food good!" is beyond your mental capacity at the moment. :P

[Pharaoh's Fist]

He also has a wisdom score typically reserved for lemmings.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

He also has a wisdom score typically reserved for lemmings.His Wis is fine. It's the fact that he has the Cha score of a typical /b/ user that's keeping him from controlling his minions.

[Milskidasith]

However, if he had any cleric levels he still couldn't use cleric spells. :(

[Olo Demonsbane]

My last order was "Fight intellegently against hostile foes." :smalltongue:

They are continuing to do this... unfortanately, he is immune to 4/5 of my minions attacks, is FLYING, and is a wizard.

A level 13 Wizard against 5 CR 11s that cant do anything to him, a CR 7 that can only effect him on a natural 1 save (and has 5 hp right now, before the second battle), a CR 11 that can fight him...but is a melee thing, and 3 CR 9 things which is basically what he is fighting against.

EDIT: Funnily enough, even with 1 intellegence Vir has +37 on Truespeak. Enough to summon a marlith on a roll of a 10, if I could use it.

EDIT2: Is anything happening in dungeon instance two? There are no signs of life.

[Arakune]

Quick question: what happens with the contenders itens after he lose an oficial battle?

Edit: To clarify: if I spend charges from a wand, the new charges carry to the next battle? Do you loot the fallen enemy? When the enemy 'respaw' he lose part of his treasure?

What about XP? It carry over? How much does you gain?

[9mm]

... I turn away for a few hours and miss hilarity; typical. But I have been convinced not to try and enter "The Herd."

[9mm]

Quick question: what happens with the contenders itens after he lose an oficial battle?

Edit: To clarify: if I spend charges from a wand, the new charges carry to the next battle? Do you loot the fallen enemy? When the enemy 'respaw' he lose part of his treasure?

What about XP? It carry over? How much does you gain?

If you win an OFFICAL battle, you can loot the guy's corpse, spend 24 hours in sigil to sell/re-equip/upgrade/rest, and gain xp equal to the encounter.

[Talic]

Milski? Where be ye? Got that spell list done yet?

[Milskidasith]

I was busy today*, and have to sleep early because I need to get up in the morning. Sorry.

*I visited with family, saw Funny People, went out for dinner, etc.

[Talic]

I was busy today*, and have to sleep early because I need to get up in the morning. Sorry.

*I visited with family, saw Funny People, went out for dinner, etc.

Good movie. And no rush. ;)

[Doc Roc]

EDIT2: Is anything happening in dungeon instance two? There are no signs of life.

About to put up an update. Been working on a rules-light RPG system I maintain, and a HUGE fighter fix package.

[Doc Roc]

Updates are dropped in now. Been looking over the ban list, wanted to know how you guys felt about it.

[Milskidasith]

Spell list has been updated.

EDIT: Also, if a spell has a duration of days/level, can we have the spell cast on us/items we have multiple times? Like, could I have 13 instances of a spell with a duration of days/level running on me/my items if I was caster level 13?''

EDIT again: What were the rule changes?

[Doc Roc]

None right now. Was more wondering if any were needed.

[mikethepoor]

Tide, what about factotums and Cunning Surge?

EDIT: Also, if a character makes it to the dungeon and dies, can their player make another character and restart at the initial qualifier match, or is that player out for good?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

What do you think of ambush drake? Obviously no good at casting, but maybe good for melee build? Healthy bonuses to Str and Con, wings, and a little bit of SR sounds good as well as the fact that it's essentially dragon hit die, so Full BAB and all good saves.

Link (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20060728a)

I'm not sure what it's SR is, but based on the sample builds, it seems to be HD+9, can someone clarify?

[Arakune]

Anyone want to try a exibition match with me?

Officially I'm not aproved yet, but I want to try this build and see how it does.

[Claudius Maximus]

Well, I've made the final changes to my character, and I'm ready for an entrance match as soon as I get the green light from Oskar/Tide/whomever has the authority to do that.

ryuan: What tier is your character?

[Doc Roc]

Factotums and cunning surge are permitted. Iaijatsu master is the subject of a soft-ban. None of the iconic iaijatsu\factotum builds have been submitted yet, so I haven't had a chance to gauge how powerful it is.



Serpent Kingdoms as a whole has been nominated for a similar status to Savage Species for repeated offenses against sanity.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Anyone want an exhibition match?

Its against a Tier 1.5 (ish) Mystic Theurge. It would be higher, except I positively CANNOT build wizards. I forget every single spell I need... :smallfrown::smallsigh:[/self-pity]

It hasnt been approved by T.G. yet, though I sent it to him over 2 weeks ago.

[Arakune]

Well, I've made the final changes to my character, and I'm ready for an entrance match as soon as I get the green light from Oskar/Tide/whoever has the authority to do that.

ryuan: What tier is your character?

Probably 2~1.5. It's a straight psion with only SRD material.

[Milskidasith]

I take it I still can't play against you, Olo, since you know my character.

[mikethepoor]

Question for the DM: Can wands of metamagicked spells be purchased?

[Arakune]

Anyone want an exhibition match?

Its against a Tier 1.5 (ish) Mystic Theurge. It would be higher, except I positively CANNOT build wizards. I forget every single spell I need... :smallfrown::smallsigh:[/self-pity]

It hasnt been approved by T.G. yet, though I sent it to him over 2 weeks ago.

I shall fight against you. If it's a char you already used to fight, I can provide a link to my char to make things more fair, since I saw some of the fights in he test. I don't remeber all of then by head but...

Can you make the thread if you feel inclined?

[9mm]

Factotums and cunning surge are permitted. Iaijatsu master is the subject of a soft-ban. None of the iconic iaijatsu\factotum builds have been submitted yet, so I haven't had a chance to gauge how powerful it is.


well that just means Yojimbo is out of the dungeon... pity; but really all they have is some Int synergy and full ranks in Jutsu-Focus. Ijitusu AC boost is even harder to use/more restrictive than the other AC boosts out there.

[Arakune]

If anyone wants to fight, I will be disponible after 2~3 hours.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I heartily support soft-banning Serpent Kingdoms. One of the most OP spells in the game, a spell that should be 8th or 9th level(and is 3rd instead), is in it.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I shall fight against you. If it's a char you already used to fight, I can provide a link to my char to make things more fair, since I saw some of the fights in he test. I don't remeber all of then by head but...

Can you make the thread if you feel inclined?

Its a new gal, so you dont have to send me your guy.

Exhibition Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6703431#post6703431)

And can someone tell me quickly what the spell Halo of Sand does? Its a 2nd level druid spell from Sandstorm.

EDIT: And what does "disponible" mean? I dont speak french.

[9mm]

I heartily support soft-banning Serpent Kingdoms. One of the most OP spells in the game, a spell that should be 8th or 9th level(and is 3rd instead), is in it.

hey! I haven't used my Venomfire abuser yet... mostly cause I don't want to do the paper work, but still.

[Claudius Maximus]

Olo:
Halo of Sand gives +1 defection bonus to AC per 3 levels, capped at +4 at 12th level. Its duration is 10 minutes/level.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Thank you very much.

[Signmaker]

Olo, I'd like to take a second shot at your demon summoner eventually, but with my own Tome of Magic build. For fairness' sake, I'll let you look at my sheet before the fight starts, seeing as I've got the general gist of yours.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sure, whenever you want.

[Doc Roc]

Soft-ban of serpent kingdom is now in place.

[Signmaker]

I can feel all the snakes crying out injustice. And people not caring.

It sounds positively amazing.

[9mm]

I have this voice in my head going...

"prepare venomfire... do it, DOOOO IT!"

[sofawall]

Factotums and cunning surge are permitted. Iaijatsu master is the subject of a soft-ban. None of the iconic iaijatsu\factotum builds have been submitted yet, so I haven't had a chance to gauge how powerful it is.

Hilariously. I love my 2k damage in one (well, really 22, but w/e) standard action.

EDIT: And oh boy, if you pair it with fast-advancement casting...

Although I guess that's more FoI than Iaijutsu. Just remember, it's powerful.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Hilariously. I love my 2k damage in one (well, really 22, but w/e) standard action.

EDIT: And oh boy, if you pair it with fast-advancement casting...

Although I guess that's more FoI than Iaijutsu. Just remember, it's powerful.Recommended fix: max of 2 standard, 4 move, and 2 swift actions used per round.

[9mm]

Hilariously. I love my 2k damage in one (well, really 22, but w/e) standard action.

EDIT: And oh boy, if you pair it with fast-advancement casting...

Although I guess that's more FoI than Iaijutsu. Just remember, it's powerful.

honestly though, you have to give up 1-5 fonts to even pull off the 2k, (1 for quick-razor, 2 for quick draw/sheath, 5 for Juju master abilities) I'd rather have the fonts. Also you have to give up money/actions to get them flat-footed, which is often tricky, I personally can only think of one non-easily countered way: a white-raven strike.

[Arakune]

Its a new gal, so you dont have to send me your guy.

Exhibition Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6703431#post6703431)

And can someone tell me quickly what the spell Halo of Sand does? Its a 2nd level druid spell from Sandstorm.

EDIT: And what does "disponible" mean? I dont speak french.

Neither do I :smallredface:

Man, I need to actually read what I post. I wanted to say 'available'.

Edit: I will be back around 10~11 am -3GMT

Edit2: I will stay for a while.

[sofawall]

Well, the 2k damage was in a build that added a few stats to Init, and dipped fighter to get the feats. Every single one of my normal 10 feats (7+2flaws+1human) was FoI.

He carried a lot of katanas, though.

EDIT Ninja...


Neither do I :smallredface:

Man, I need to actually read what I post. I wanted to say 'available'.

So how did you manage to say that, then :P

[Arakune]

So how did you manage to say that, then :P

I wasnt' me, it was the ALIENS.

They came last week.

Then it was the mutants.

Fine by me.

:p

[Talic]

I, as well, am available, for some time. :D

[Milskidasith]

Hey, Talic.

[Talic]

What's up, Milski?

[Milskidasith]

Spell list ready, but it's kind of late here. >_<

[Talic]

Coolies. If you wanna hold off another day, fine. Not sure how available I'll be tomorrow, but it'll happen when it happens. No rush.

[PinkysBrain]

How are action points handled BTW?

[Doc Roc]

They are a variant rule that is not used.

[Talic]

Luck points, however, can be, if you want to invest in that crappy feat line.

[PinkysBrain]

I meant more Eberronian action points, since artificers are allowed.

I guess the only way to get them is through spells and abilities?

[Doc Roc]

Disallowed. Let me go ban-list them.
They lead to some unpleasant abuses. I should know. :S

Gentle-folk, please update the waiting list if you are dungeon qualified.

[Olo Demonsbane]

This fell to the second page! *Gasp*

So, Sign, does your truenamer want to fight? I think thats what you said a couple pages back, correct?

[Signmaker]

Yup. But I didn't want to go at it yesterday, cause of the time. If you've got time to go at it now, sure.

[Claudius Maximus]

So how are we handling the Archivist's acquisition of spells? Can one just pick up spells from obscure sources with no hassle? What about variants like the Divine Bard?

[sofawall]

My vote lies with: If you buy the scroll and pay to scribe the spell, go ahead.

Of course, that makes them hilariously powerful, but w/e.

[PinkysBrain]

Disallowed. Let me go ban-list them.
They lead to some unpleasant abuses. I should know. :S
I just wanted to use them for buffing without using charges :/

[Arakune]

Domain wizards are allowed?

[Doc Roc]

Wand Surge has.... problems as a feat. I'm afraid it was one of the integral reasons for the decision to avoid allowing action points.

Archivists are limited to:
Domain lists
Cleric\Druid Lists
Shugenja
Ranger
Paladin
Other divine casters by permission

Banned:
Runescarred Berserker lists
Arcane spells into divine scrolls by means not covered or permitted by the above/


Pending community approval, this will pass into the rules.

How would people feel about allowing domain wizards if it cost them their familiars and allowed no other ACFs?

[Arakune]

Pending community approval, this will pass into the rules.

How would people feel about allowing domain wizards if it cost them their familiars and allowed no other ACFs?

But it is already in use or is banned for the time being?

[Doc Roc]

No one's used it.. It's a fairly esoteric ACf, widely considered extremely-good, on the near border of too good.

[Arakune]

A friend of mine made a domain wizard. Can I test it for him? He is in the foreign version of the ToS.

[Claudius Maximus]

Tide: What do you mean by "Finagling arcane spells into divine scrolls"? Do you mean that an Archivist can't get arcane spells no matter what?

While we're on the subject of Archivists, would you let an Archivist use a Boccob's Blessed Book like a wizard?

Also, are there any limits to the use of Mercantile Background? Could I apply it to any or all items I start with?

Finally, what are the exact limits on planar travel? Teleportation seems to work, but how is that possible if we can't shift to the Astral Plane? Can we use spells that send us to overlapping/coexistent planes, like Ethereal Jaunt or Shadow Walk?

Sorry about all the questions, but I think it's better to pester you now than to screw up later.

I have no problems with your Domain Wizard proposal. I think the loss of familiar and lack of other ACFs makes it reasonable.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Archivists are limited to:
Domain lists
Cleric\Druid Lists
Other divine casting lists by permission

Banned:
Runescarred Berserker lists
Finagling arcane spells into divine scrolls.I'd add Ranger, Paladin, Healer, and Adept to the allowed lists. Divine Bard etc should be approval only, but the basic divine casters IMHO should be assumed for the archivist.
How would people feel about allowing domain wizards if it cost them their familiars and allowed no other ACFs?Just ban that ACF. Any attempt to balance it IMHO passes more into homebrew than houserule, and they can get the same flavor from Arcane Disciple.

[Doc Roc]

The planes are all present, but any transient planes function as though they were local-only. In short, there is no deep ethereal, and the only accessible astral is the local astral, just as though you were in Sigil. Likewise with the plane of shadow.


Domain wizard is likely to enter the ban list.

When I say finagling, I mean that there's a particular way with a good bit of trickery to get any arcane spell as an archivist. This is not permitted, but it's difficult to ban because there are somewhere between five and seven tricks.

I will add ranger, paladin, and similar to the list.

[Olo Demonsbane]

No one's used it.. It's a fairly esoteric ACf, widely considered extremely-good, on the near border of too good.

Ive used it twice...both the characters Im now using, in fact. It is rarely that good, because the avalable spells suck.

I just use it because I want to have a moderately powerful wizard, but I hate banning schools with your added rules.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Ive used it twice...both the characters Im now using, in fact. It is rarely that good, because the avalable spells suck.

I just use it because I want to have a moderately powerful wizard, but I hate banning schools with your added rules....which domains did you pick? Conjuration and Transmutation(shocker) have pretty good lists. And if you don't specialize, it's something for nothing.

[Signmaker]

Olo, now mebbe?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Anyone up for a exhibition with my Disciple of Dispater? I'm just waiting for TG's approval before the entrance exam.

[Claudius Maximus]

Any verdict on Blessed book or Mercantile Background? These may have a significant impact on how many spells I can have if I choose to make my next character an Archivist.

Sharnian: I normally would, but if your character is really tier 3, I might face you in an entrance match.

[Milskidasith]

Mercantile background is allowed. Not sure on the book, but IIRC by RAW it was Wizard only.

[Claudius Maximus]

The question wasn't whether or not it was legal, but rather if there was any limit to its use during character creation. For example, could I buy all of my items at 75% price and just say that I got them during different months?

Edit: I just took a look at it, and it's not Wizard only.

[Signmaker]

Anyone up for a exhibition with my Disciple of Dispater? I'm just waiting for TG's approval before the entrance exam.

I suppose?

VVV-Wheee.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sign, I'll fight you.

Fight, Round 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6711467#post6711467)

EDIT: Mercantile Background is from Players Guide to Faerun. I have taken it for over half of my Test of Spite characters...Im used to extremely generous DMs :smalltongue:

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Ok then, sign, you make the thread, and may I ask which character, you are using for this battle?

[Signmaker]

I unno, do you want the druid or the monk, seeing as you've fought both?

[lvl 1 sharnian]

I guess the druid since I need revenge.

I fought your monk?

[Signmaker]

With your lightning macer, back when my monk was horribly screwed up. Lasted all of two rounds.

Thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6711637#post6711637)

[Doc Roc]

BBB is clear. Mercantile background is now banned due to lack of a reliable ruling and possible deep-dungeon effects.

[Olo Demonsbane]

WHAT? Why is mercantile background banned? I have not seen any ruling that is different then the obvious...

[Doc Roc]

75% reduction of all item costs if your "background" says they were bought a month apart. Yes, totally balanced to get an extra 25k.

Uncanny Forethought joins our exalted list, and the Archivist rulings have passed into law. All of this is subject to contest until first affected character is submitted.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

WHAT? Why is mercantile background banned? I have not seen any ruling that is different then the obvious...Most likely because of the fact that it functions 1/month. The usefulness of that is too much of a DM call for a power check.

[Milskidasith]

Damn, and my character relied on that for his item choices. Grr.

[Signmaker]

I almost had a Nightmare drop on me. That was interesting.

[Olo Demonsbane]

In that case...I have 5 characters that need to be added to the hall of honor:
Izzy, Kirrath, Kent, Rachel, and Vir.

EDIT: Plus, Im activating an infinite loop on ryuan with Rachel. Make two Fortitude saves, DC Infinity!

[Milskidasith]

So a 1 in 400 chance, right Olo?

If he makes it, there will be so much egg on your face.

[Olo Demonsbane]

If he makes it...I will agree that the Lady is against me. She gave Sign two twenties in a row and me two ones in a row...

*casts Protection from Egg*

Plus, if the hounds dont kill me in one round, I can kill them all :smallbiggrin:

[Arakune]

In that case...I have 5 characters that need to be added to the hall of honor:
Izzy, Kirrath, Kent, Rachel, and Vir.

EDIT: Plus, Im activating an infinite loop on ryuan with Rachel. Make two Fortitude saves, DC Infinity!

... I don't think it counts, since it's not an aproved char. Way to go man, bully the new meat :smallannoyed:

[Olo Demonsbane]

TG said it looked fine, then he hasnt said anything in three weeks. I wasnt really sure if that was approved...

Yeah, sorry, you were just the first person to walk into the killing range. :smalltongue:

Plus, 6 characters into the Hall of Honor in one post! That must count for something!

[EleventhHour]

*ponders joining in*

And the ruling for Psionics is...?

[9mm]

*ponders joining in*

And the ruling for Psionics is...?

which ruling? they're allowed, if that's what your asking.

[Olo Demonsbane]

If its not banned, you can use it.

And Psionics are not banned. Just so you know :smallwink:. Great system.

[Claudius Maximus]

I had a feeling pointing that out would lead to a ban. I think it's for the best, really. A 25% increase in wealth for one feat is kind of powerful.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Sign and I have a bit of a problem...namely, my succubus suggested this to his character "You have a beautifull body. Why not take off everything you are wearing and throw it into the river so everyone can get a good look?"

And he failed his first of like 20 saves. How long does it take to take off clothing? How long does it take to throw clothing into the river? How long does it take off all of your other equipment and throw it into the water? What about your wand bandoleers?

He is 15ft from the water.

[Signmaker]

That was number 10 of 15 total, if I'm not mistaken, with only one failure.
Also a question is how stripping mid-fight whilst being rayed, slashed, and spelled at is a 'reasonable' suggestion. =P

[9mm]

Sign and I have a bit of a problem...namely, my succubus suggested this to his character "You have a beautifull body. Why not take off everything you are wearing and throw it into the river so everyone can get a good look?"

... you owe me a new monitor. mine has root beer all over it.:smalltongue:

[Milskidasith]

I'm not a ref, but I'd definitely say that an order to strip off your protective gear instead of defending yourself from the suggestors allies is totally unreasonable.

[Signmaker]

9mm, consider it an opportunity to clean an other-wise dusty computer.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Also a question is how stripping mid-fight whilst being rayed, slashed, and spelled at is a 'reasonable' suggestion. =P

One of the sample suggestions is "You look hot. A dip in that pool of acid looks refreshing." Same thing. Also, there is a similar suggestion given by a monster in Hordes of the Abyss. Clear precedent.

EDIT: Lilitu. Exact Quote:
The first three rounds of combat are always augmented by quickened suggestions. Lilitus are particularly fond of suggesting armored characters quickly remove their armor so she can get a better look at them...

[Milskidasith]

One of the sample suggestions is "You look hot. A dip in that pool of acid looks refreshing." Same thing. Also, there is a similar suggestion given by a monster in Hordes of the Abyss. Clear precedent.

I don't know where you have your sample suggestions, but on the spell I'm looking up it says any obviously harmful suggestion automatically negates the spell, and jumping into acid is pretty obviously harmful. Also, was the monster in the hordes of the abyss, at the time, having it's allies kill the person?

I just can't see that suggestion being considered "not obviously harmful."

[Signmaker]

The pool of acid one comes from the PHB, and involves tricking the opponent in to thinking it's actually just water.

[Milskidasith]

Ah; I'm just looking in the online SRD, which doesn't list any examples, and acid seems obviously harmful (making it seem to be water makes it reasonable, though.)

[Olo Demonsbane]

The pool of acid one comes from the PHB, and involves tricking the opponent in to thinking it's actually just water.

Actually, the one I was thinking of was from the Epic Level Handbook, under the Bluff epic skill use, Instil Suggestion in Target. It says that it is identical to the suggestion spell... (EDIT: except nonmagical and it only lasts 10 minutes)

Exact Quote:
I'll bet you could use a cooling swim. A dip in that pool of acid would be refreshing.

[Arakune]

Ok, I'm officialy dead now.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I beat Ryuan, though he made the first saving throw.

Now, lets see what the hounds can do...:smalltongue:

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Arakune]

I beat Ryuan, though he made the first saving throw.

Now, lets see what the hounds can do...:smalltongue:

EDIT: Ninja'd

Ninja'd by the dead! I'm a zombie ninja!

[Olo Demonsbane]

Hey, what Tier do you think I was? :smalltongue:

[Signmaker]

I am in dire need of sleep, so I'll continue my matches tomorrow. Night guys.

[Arakune]

Hey, what Tier do you think I was? :smalltongue:

0. :smallmad::smallfurious::smallfrown:

[Claudius Maximus]

Olo, I'm not sure if that trick works. Isn't Heighten Spell capped at 9th?

[Olo Demonsbane]

See ya Sign.

Ryuan: Ok, changing that in the Sign up thread :smallamused:

EDIT: Shoot, your right. Can I have the night to update my spells and stuff, since this is no longer an infinite loop? :smallbiggrin:

You just made me happy! I dont get killed!

Ryuan: Rematch?

[Doc Roc]

For your trouble, you are consumed by the hounds. You may fix your character, resubmit, and offer Ryuan his rightful rematch.

If you would like to struggle against the hounds, you are certainly welcome to. I'll give you a hint..

Astral projection is hilarious.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I'll just fix her...she'll still be awesome! Tier 0 again, possibly.

[EleventhHour]

I'll have my Psion sheet up later tonight, then... Ooh, this is going to be fun... :smallamused:

[Milskidasith]

Great... I was going to fight Talic in an exhibition, but now that we don't have Mercantile Background, my item choices are invalid. :(

[Claudius Maximus]

So how about we get some new maps? I've grown tired of the three or four we've been using. I haven't been able to find any good ones myself, though. Where did that river map come from? Are there more like it?

[EleventhHour]

*starts drawing a few*

:smallbiggrin:

[Signmaker]

Great... I was going to fight Talic in an exhibition, but now that we don't have Mercantile Background, my item choices are invalid. :(


*cough*

Sadface.

[Arakune]

I want to fight, not be a guinea pig to infinite loops :smalltongue:

[Milskidasith]

You can fight me and be a guinea pig to nearly unbeatable spell resistance and nearly unbeatable OHKO attacks. >_>

[Olo Demonsbane]

Well, Im not infinite loopy anymore! I still have to finish adjusting everything though...

[Arakune]

You can fight me and be a guinea pig to nearly unbeatable spell resistance and nearly unbeatable OHKO attacks. >_>

If it's ridiculously high but not actualy infinite, then I guess it's (mostly) valid.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I have to warn you, I helped make his character. :smalltongue: As did JeminiZero, who is a much better optimizer than I.

[Milskidasith]

I have to warn you, I helped make his character. :smalltongue: As did JeminiZero, who is a much better optimizer than I.

Actually, I didn't go with JeminiZero's help because it involved playing an artificer and I don't have the books. >_>

But yeah, it's pretty good. Still, I need to get my items sorted out without mercantile background. >_<

[Olo Demonsbane]

I had to do that with Rachel too...luckily, I still hadnt spent ~45000.

Tide, how do Mind Blank and True Seeing interact?

[Doc Roc]

Non-interaction. Go get yourself superior invis if you want to hide from TS.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Got that too....Superior Invisibility doesnt protect from true seeing.

[Doc Roc]

doh. You are correct. That's fairly rough. I'm not sure off the top of my head what to suggest.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Any Druid or Wizard Spell that gives immunity to True Seeing...anyone?

[Milskidasith]

Greater Dispel Magic.

I know I'm not being helpful.

[Doc Roc]

Anything that breaks LoS, interestingly. If it were LoE, it'd be easy. I like sleetstorm and similar things.

[Milskidasith]

Max out your hide checks and avoid glowing rocks!*

*Anybody who plays a good/neutral cleric should forego any kind of mundane ways of detecting a hiding enemy and just cast celestial brilliance on some rocks. Super powerful light that you can drop all over the arena, hell yeah!

On a related note to that, do the penalties for those lights stack, or not? I'd assume not, but if they do... jeez, anything that is hurt by light is going to be hurt badly.

[Olo Demonsbane]

EDIT: How does this work? Im not familiar with Celestial Brilliance. EDIT2: Nevermind, I realized what you were talking about.

I also have 14500gp left...could I buy an item that protects from True Seeing or something?

And how does Arcane Sight Interact with Superior Invisibility/Mindblank?

[PinkysBrain]

Why is candle of invocation a death by hounds but gate allowed?

The "downside" to the gate spell isn't really important either ... with the immediate task calling effect you have absolute control, so killing it before it runs out is easy.

PS. Tidesinger could you give a reworded description of Mind Blank? The fact that it fails to protect against some divination spells and the unknown caster check penalties make it a wild card.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I also have 14500gp left...could I buy an item that protects from True Seeing or something?

Hire an orc to strip naked, use a Hat of Disguise for clothing, and stand between you and the True See-er

[PinkysBrain]

Anything that breaks LoS, interestingly. If it were LoE, it'd be easy. I like sleetstorm and similar things.
In real games distance is also a great way to avoid True Seeing, but that's probably not an option in an arena.

[JeminiZero]

Actually, I didn't go with JeminiZero's help because it involved playing an artificer and I don't have the books. >_>


Archivist, actually, which happens to be available freely online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). Even with the Archvist modified rules, you can still pick up bard spells via Anyspell and Greater Anyspell.


I have to warn you, I helped make his character. :smalltongue: As did JeminiZero, who is a much better optimizer than I.

I'n not that good yet. My one exhibition submission only won half her matches. But Alita has been heavily rebuilt, and will have her revenge!!! ... soon... eventually... maybe...

[imperialspectre]

Olo: Your infinite loop build requires Hathran levels, I believe, and Hathran requires Leadership, which is banned. How did you get around that?

[Doc Roc]

Having just re-read it, I can verify that the loop mechanism is not valid.
Heighten is capped.
Sanctum spell counts as a meta-magic, and is always applied.
You'll note the clause in Rashemi Spirit Magic where it says that "a spell so altered still uses up a higher level slot as appropriate."
So Sanctum Spell is taken into account when calculating valid trades.
A magic missile heightened to two and then affected by sanctum is a third level spell from the perspective of the ability.
Thus not a valid trade for a magic missile, which is only a second level spell under sanctum.
Finally, Hathran requires leadership or a derivative to qualify for, and is thus indirectly banned.

In short, the hounds eat well. Please submit the fixed character for re-validation so that Ryuan can have his rematch.

[Signmaker]

On foiling True Sight: Invisible Invisibility.

DO IT. =P


So, any word on the reasonableness/unreasonableness to strip naked midfight?

[Doc Roc]

That.... would normally be a Talic question.

I need a new arena referee.

[Vicerious]

Referee recruit reporting for duty. Point me at what you need done!

[Doc Roc]

You're in. Let me get signs to post a link for you to go examine.

[Signmaker]

Da Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6712901&posted=1#post6712901)

I think the argument boils down to "Is it a reasonable Suggestion to strip naked in front of 10 aggressive opponents just cause I'm shmexy?"

[Arakune]

Tide, did you put the Olo on the Hall of shame?

[Doc Roc]

Nah. He just got eaten. No mention of failed characters is made. We try to be forgiving around here. :)

[Milskidasith]

Archivist, actually, which happens to be available freely online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3). Even with the Archvist modified rules, you can still pick up bard spells via Anyspell and Greater Anyspell.

It's available online? Well damn. Thank you, Jemini!

*Bows before the master*

[Olo Demonsbane]

I thought since Santum Spell is (+0), the level wouldnt change...nevermind :smallfrown:

Wait, how about if I do this: I have Sanctum magic missile. I change this for Heightened (+1) Magic Missile. I drop my acorn. I change this to Sanctum (-1 efective spell level) Heightened (+2) Magic Missile. I pick up the acorn. I change the now level 4 spell to Heightened (+4) Magic Missile. I drop my acorn...et cetera.

As for Hathran, I just didnt take the leadership feat and didnt gain the bonus to leadership the class gives. Since you effectively obliterated it from the game, I just took it off the class requirements.

Also, Tide: I get all my other characters for the run time ban or whatever, due to Mercantile Background...

[Doc Roc]

Leadership is just banned. Anything it's a requirement for can no longer be qualified for.

The new trick will work, but takes actions, and thus time. Further, heighten is still capped.
The new trick, however, is ingenious and fairly new to my knowledge, so congrats on that. It may lead to a ban of that damn acorn, which has steadily pushed towards the ban hammer over the last two months.

Give me the names of your characters who were running mercantile background please. :)

[Olo Demonsbane]

Da Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6712901&posted=1#post6712901)

I think the argument boils down to "Is it a reasonable Suggestion to strip naked in front of 10 aggressive opponents just cause I'm shmexy?"

There are plenty of good examples of this type of suggestion, including one that is the same thing phrased differently, in the Strategies section of the lilitu, which I quoted above.

Just helping out our new ref, in case he didnt see the whole arguement.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Leadership is just banned. Anything it's a requirement for can no longer be qualified for.

Then Rachel is gone. No more Tier 0 Mystic Theurge :smallfrown:


The new trick will work, but takes actions, and thus time. Further, heighten is still capped.

I can do it after preparing spells.


The new trick, however, is ingenious and fairly new to my knowledge, so congrats on that. It may lead to a ban of that damn acorn, which has steadily pushed towards the ban hammer over the last two months.

Ok, thats fine with me, I dont think I will use it any more.


Give me the names of your characters who were running mercantile background please. :)

I gave them to you a couple pages back:


Izzy, Kirrath, Kent, Rachel, and Vir

[Doc Roc]

I would recommend taking your new trick over to 339 or BG and having some people look it over. New tricks are always cherished.

Ban of the acorn? Opinions people!

[sofawall]

By "That Damn Acorn" do you mean Acorn of Far Travel?

Because if so, yes, yes, three times yes, ban that goddamn acorn.

I've come up with a few abuses using it.

[Doc Roc]

Okay... Wow... You've never told me you thought something was broken before, not that broken anyway... Banning it.

[sofawall]

It's damn silly. It makes anything location based trivial. ANYTHING.

[Doc Roc]

Point, ba-ba-ba-an hammered.
Any other interested parties willing to join the exalted ranks of ToS Management and the Penny Dreadfuls Team?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Tide: I only am a member to this forum, so I'll post it here when I get the time.

[Claudius Maximus]

Tide: I have the time and the interest, but possibly not the knowledge to be a good manager. If you think it would work out well, I'll do it.

[PinkysBrain]

Actually, the one I was thinking of was from the Epic Level Handbook, under the Bluff epic skill use, Instil Suggestion in Target. It says that it is identical to the suggestion spell... (EDIT: except nonmagical and it only lasts 10 minutes)
That reminds me ... are the epic skill uses valid in this game?

[Doc Roc]

Generally, yes. The ban-list notes down that you basically can't diplomance or bluffamance other players.

[PinkysBrain]

Oh yeah forgot about that, cuts out most of the abusive usages.

Can't even make the amplified alchemist fires since it needs an epic feat ... would they be available for buying though? (Don't do enough damage for a single attack KO at the prices we can afford.)

[Doc Roc]

I'm not familiar with the ELH or similar sources pertaining exclusively to epic play, could you explain?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Talic seems to have been banned...

[imperialspectre]

Then Rachel is gone. No more Tier 0 Mystic Theurge :smallfrown:

Well, I don't think it's Tier 0, but I've got a Mystic Theurge put together and approved that's probably 1.5 or so. Fun stuff.

Still working on a dragon PC, too, but that'll be Tier 2 at best. Fun times. :smallbiggrin:

[sofawall]

What would my duties be as a helper on the ToS? I've got a pretty good knowledge of trickery.

[Milskidasith]

Well with Talic banned... err... now what?

[Doc Roc]

I hear you like scanning sheets, and meting out rulings, Sofa. Your inimitable assistance would be greatly valued.

[sofawall]

I'd be fine with that. It might result in me... acquiring some books though :P

[T.G. Oskar]

Mostly you need the MIC for most of the magic items, the SRD for the basics, the DMG for the rest of the magic items and the point-buy rules, and some basic math.

...Erm, for scanning sheets, that is. It can be a bit messy when there are drawings of several books, and you need to check them all. Any place where the feat pre-reqs can be found is a valuable tool.

Also, excusing for the lack of assistance in here. Week has been a bit hectic, and I've let the approval plie grow up quite a bit (perhaps too much of a bit...)

[Claudius Maximus]

So is my application rejected? I'd prefer a negative answer to no answer at all. I have a good sense of how things work, so I think I could scan and clear sheets. I wouldn't put too much value in my rulings, though; I know how things are, but not necessarily how they should be.

[PinkysBrain]

I'm not familiar with the ELH or similar sources pertaining exclusively to epic play, could you explain?
There are 2 types of items in the ELH which we can afford, improved alchemical items and level 10+ spellscrolls (which are normal spells metamagicked above level 9, either with normal metamagic feats or improved heighten (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedHeightenSpell), enhance spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#enhanceSpell) or intensify spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#intensifySpell)).

Improved alchemical items work like this :

This requires the Augmented Alchemy feat, and allows a character to create alchemical items and substances of greater power than normal. To augment an alchemical substance, add +20 to the DC required to create the item and multiply the cost by 5. If the item or substance deals damage, double the damage dealt. If the item or substance doesn’t deal damage, double the duration of its effect. If the item or substance doesn’t deal damage and doesn’t have a specific listed duration (or has an instantaneous duration), double all dimensions of its area. If the item or substance doesn’t fit any of these categories, then it cannot be improved in this manner. A character can create an item with multiple degrees of augmentation. For every additional multiplier applied to damage, duration, or area, add an additional +20 to the DC and add an additional 5 to the cost multiplier.
Although I'd doubt I'd buy the improved alchemist fires or acid flasks even as a thrower, nearly everyone has evasion anyway.

[Doc Roc]

So is my application rejected? I'd prefer a negative answer to no answer at all. I have a good sense of how things work, so I think I could scan and clear sheets. I wouldn't put too much value in my rulings, though; I know how things are, but not necessarily how they should be.

Initial scanning is welcome, I was actually just debating the fact that this sort of makes it hard for you to actually play, which I'm given to understand people enjoy doing. :)

[Claudius Maximus]

I do see that concern, but it looks like we've got at least three people volunteering to scan sheets. I just won't fight anyone whose sheet I've personally audited, and I'll try to do sheets of people I wouldn't fight anyway.

[Doc Roc]

Sounds good:
This closes auditions for sheet work and rules, but not dungeonmasters.
Sheet Masters are:
Sofawall
Vicerious
T.G. Oskar
Claudius Maximus

Refs are:
Sofawall
Vicerious

Updating first post!

edit: Update complete. Link for mapping tech is now added. Happy fighting!

[Claudius Maximus]

Cool. So how are we going to divide the labor? I wouldn't want to go over a sheet only to find that Oskar just finished doing it, for example. It seems like there are people just waiting for an entrance challenge who can't do it for lack of approval, so I think we should try to clear sheets as efficiently as possible.

[T.G. Oskar]

Well...been a rule-lawyering sheet scanner has taken me out of the exhibition field, and I've essentially grown up to be dependable. What I've seen as a problem is the issue of trust: will the sheet scanner use the knowledge of the character sheet as a metagame action during combat? Should it be left to play, or not?

I'd found myself unable to do so, but I suggested the idea of fighting the "slain" characters for a chance of a new opportunity to enter the dungeon. It hasn't progressed thus far, but I'd like to see that chance.

And also, to relief some of the load of seeing so many characters in so little time (and also be less abusive with the limited PM inbox).

The idea with scanning is mostly to find any troubles in prerequisites, see if everything sums well, and deal mostly with the skills and magic items, because of the specific WBL amount which can be sometimes surpassed, or the fluctuating amount of skill points and the right amount of ranks. It's a bit time-consuming, specifically when the build consists of at least 4 or 5 classes/PrCs.

[Doc Roc]

Division of initial sheets is your choice, but I have suggestions:

Save all the links to sheets, so we can compile a big-huge-ToS archive, beyond just the sign-up sheet.

Using a central e-mail might work well for this. Opinions?

[Milskidasith]

Hmm, what items to give up to get down to normal WBL... I can probably get rid of my con belt entirely, and then get rid of the boots of speed... that will probably just get me back to the normal wealth... >_<

[T.G. Oskar]

@Tide: the public spreadsheet is fine, as far as I can see. Just put a new column to specify who does the scanning. Second opinions are allowed, as well.

@Milk: depends. The Boots of Speed aren't that expensive, and are quite useful. Your Amulet-turned-Belt of Health can be a simple +4 (which amounts to 16k, which is roughly 1/6th of your total WBL).

Mostly, the key is to get the most expensive and/or needed stuff first. Anything beyond the medium wondrous items (or beyond, say, level 13-14 for those who use the MIC) is a huge consumption of money, and something that may not end up as cost-effective. For example: one +6 to stat item costs more than twice as much as two +4 to stat items, and in the end, it just adds one more to the stat. For the remnant of the money (in the example's case, 20k), you could get roughly the same effect as an item that costs 90k GP, and it won't consume you a slot (kudos to whomever gets the item)

For the rest, MIC has a good set of items that become increasingly useful (such as the Scorpion Kama for Monks, or the dirt-cheap Healing Belt, or the ever-useful-yet-cheap Belt of Battle), which complement quite well. Also, don't neglect the power of potions, oils and scrolls: they don't get consumed on exhibition matches, and eventually there's a chance to "recover" them.

[Doc Roc]

Got a system in place for centralized submission and archiving of sheets. Clicking the link on the front page will allow you to aim a e-mail at an account that only the ToS sheet-handlers have access to. Please use that from now on to help work-load balancing.

[Claudius Maximus]

Oskar: How about you post the names of all characters pending approval that you're not currently auditing, and the rest of us each choose a few. Then, you send us links to their sheets. This way, you don't have to handle a big pile of sheets and the rest of us can all get to work quickly.

Tide:How does that submission link work? Does it just email all of us handlers at once? Also, That mapmaking tool is really slick. I didn't notice it until just now. Anyway, there's an extra "&" in the signup sheet line in the first post.

Edit: nevermind that crossed out part.

[EleventhHour]

Tidesinger/Other DMs only...

Not kidding, really. Just them.

How would you rule it if someone were to rematerialize from Ethereal Jaunt, or abilities akin to that inside of a wall? Or outside the arena in general?

I have a plan that revolves around how it works, but I can't find any offical RAW about what happens. (When you appear inside a wall, not the arena part.)

[Doc Roc]

Not for a C++ programmer there's not. :))

Eleventh Hour only

You just get pushed out. Nothing exciting. Take damage as per blink.

[Signmaker]

Who the hell throws a rock in the middle of a tornado?

In other news, to the optimizers out there: Any way to get day-long invisibility?

[Eldariel]

In other news, to the optimizers out there: Any way to get day-long invisibility?

Ever tried one of those nifty Rings of Invisibilities? Or anything with Persistent Spell? Or a couple of Extended Invisibilities for that matter? Those are most likely the easiest; you could also be an incorporeal/ethereal creature - both could accomplish that to a degree. And of course, you could become one through magic, though most means for that are banned as per ToS rules.

[T.G. Oskar]

Oskar: How about you post the names of all characters pending approval that you're not currently auditing, and the rest of us each choose a few. Then, you send us links to their sheets. This way, you don't have to handle a big pile of sheets and the rest of us can all get to work quickly.

The ones that come to my mind currently are as follows:
For scanners' eyes only
John B. Quick, Korullin, and Quamril

Perhaps I'm missing one (there's one that I know I should handle, but there shall be some difficulties at the moment) but so far those are what seem to be the ones needing some assistance. Front page should have others needing assistance.

Also, IIRC, Alita wishes to be checked for final analysis. I'll have to check Jane Doe as well, since it was awaiting a re-revision.

[Doc Roc]

I don't suppose I could lure you into joining our merry gang on the field of battle, Eld?

[Signmaker]

Ever tried one of those nifty Rings of Invisibilities? Or anything with Persistent Spell? Or a couple of Extended Invisibilities for that matter? Those are most likely the easiest; you could also be an incorporeal/ethereal creature - both could accomplish that to a degree. And of course, you could become one through magic, though most means for that are banned as per ToS rules.

I don't believe the invisibility line can be persisted, and I AM incorporeal, but the seeable kind, sadly.

Currently got a contingency running for invisibility, so I suppose that that works for at least combat.

[Vicerious]

Who the hell throws a rock in the middle of a tornado?

In other news, to the optimizers out there: Any way to get day-long invisibility?

Of course, day-long invisibility, as the spell, might be of dubious benefit since making an attack would end the duration. Now, day-long greater invisibility...

[Signmaker]

Of course, day-long invisibility, as the spell, might be of dubious benefit since making an attack would end the duration. Now, day-long greater invisibility...

Theoretically, that one attack is all I'm really in need of.

[Claudius Maximus]

The ones that come to my mind currently are as follows:
For scanners' eyes only
John B. Quick, Korullin, and Quamril

Perhaps I'm missing one (there's one that I know I should handle, but there shall be some difficulties at the moment) but so far those are what seem to be the ones needing some assistance. Front page should have others needing assistance.

Also, IIRC, Alita wishes to be checked for final analysis. I'll have to check Jane Doe as well, since it was awaiting a re-revision.

You forgot mine. :smallwink:

Anyway, I think I'll handle: (Scanners only)
Korullin and Quamril. John B. Quick is a bit close to my only character's tier, so I'd rather not do him.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Who the hell throws a rock in the middle of a tornado?


What? It seemed better than Full Attack Auto Criticaling myself

[Signmaker]

0% success is better than hoping for a 20?

V-- Not quite. It's more like "I cast, then retreat to where the average person can't attack me."

First turn KOs aren't sporting.

[PinkysBrain]

Theoretically, that one attack is all I'm really in need of.
Heh, optimism at it's finest :p Hope it locks up the soul while it's at it, some people will have contingencies even for dying (hell some people will have contingencies against which even locking up their souls won't be an obstruction).

PS. hmm, maybe I should just come out and say it Forced Dream belongs on the ban list (also power stones of Time Regression are hilarious, XP cost? I don't care about no stinking XP costs).

[lvl 1 sharnian]

0% success is better than hoping for a 20?

V-- Not quite. It's more like "I cast, then retreat to where the average person can't attack me."

First turn KOs aren't sporting.

I was actually saying that trying to throw a rock in a tornado would make more tacticalsense in battle than cutting off my own head in an act of suicide.

But your build reminds to pick up emerald razor, which incidentally brings up another question?

Does Emerald Razor trigger lightning mace? And if so, are they also touch attacks?

Also, any ruling on standing on top of an opponent? Allows Coup de graces with a balance check?