Test of Spite [D&D 3.5]

[lvl 1 sharnian]

I liked the last map I played at, with all the features and stuff, but maybe choose a different one that's similar to it.

[ex cathedra]

I'm find with that, or I could scrounge up another.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Sure we'll go with that

[Doc Roc]

There's the one with the Magma pillar that I rolled out. I should first post all the currently extent maps :S

Tarbrush, please, press into my hand your .5er!

[Adumbration]

Just popping in from the army training camp to post my previous sheets for everyone's viewing/commenting. Talic will find out that he wasn't the first to use Elan's Enhanced Resilience.

Drelagth, the Master of Nine - the Swordsage Supreme. (Won the first duel.) (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=26864)
The Ardent spirit, the would-be immortal - slain by a pillar of fire and a couple of measly unicorn arrows. Seriously. (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=27490) I regret picking that map.

EDIT: On a week-end vacation, by the way. Look up Finland's army system if you want to know more about what I'm going through.

[Signmaker]

...Unicorn arrows?

[Talic]

Actually, my guy was human. I said I COULD have done that.

[ex cathedra]

There's the one with the Magma pillar that I rolled out. I should first post all the currently extent maps :S

Tarbrush, please, press into my hand your .5er!

You really should share some maps. :smallsmile:

[Doc Roc]

I'm good intarnet-friends with Tshern. I know plenty about what you're going through. Largely against my will.


Unicorn arrows:
Because Unicorns aren't just for making out of combat healing obsolete, anymore.


Following two successful and elegant builds involving reserves of strength, I have opted to ban it for the sake of my own fading sanity.

[Adumbration]

...Unicorn arrows?

Some sort of instant conjuration spell that bull-rushes several times and works in an antimagic field. I hate wizards.

Even that would've been manageable, if there hadn't been that pillar of magma. I would also have survived if I had not used the antimagic field or if I had taken a 5-foot step, or would have teleported away. I shouldn't have posted so quickly, but I had but a few days left of freedom. Silly mistakes, really.

[ex cathedra]

...Unicorn arrows?

Unicorn Arrows.

Melf's Unicorn Arrows.

Summons 1-5 unicorns, each attack for 1d8+8 and bullrush.
No Save/SR, third level wiz/sorc spell.

[Doc Roc]

I feel really guilty about that magma pillar, now. :S

[lvl 1 sharnian]

We could go with the bridges map or the magma map if you want?

[ex cathedra]

I don't know what this magma-pillar map is, but I think I would love to.

Edit:
We could use reserves of strength?!
Drat.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

I can't find it but essentially it a square map with a 10' by 10' pillar of magma in the middle that did 5d8 per round to anyone caught in it. Also there was a wall jutting out of the side of the wall halfway to block starting line of sight

[ex cathedra]

Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119337).

Having an image of that map would be spectacular.

[Adumbration]

First post here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117753

And it didn't deal 5d8 fire damage. Oh no. I would've had a shower in 5d8, rubbed on some soap and washed my hair, smelling daisies when I came out to fight back.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

20d6 like real lava?

[Signmaker]

I thought that resistance to fire immediately granted immunity to magma.

[Adumbration]

20d6 like real lava?

Yuppers. If I recall correctly, there was some shenanigans about it dealing half damage to creatures normally immune to fire, too. :smalltongue:

[Doc Roc]

:: whistles innocently ::

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Tide, what's your ruling on colossal scorpion partially in the water?

[ex cathedra]

Colossal creatures are a colossal pain to move.

Ugh.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Unfortunately, I don't have dismissal... or bug spray

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Craft: Alchemy!

[Signmaker]

There's actually a really cheap item to fix that.

Edit: Or not. It's a monstrous insect, ain't it.

[T.G. Oskar]

Unfortunately, I don't have dismissal... or bug spray

How about just normal tactics while under Repel Vermin?

...Ugh, I think I'm too contaminated with the awesomeness of SCS's stories. In either case, if it works against a swarm of vermin, it should work against colossal versions of the thing, no?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

There's actually a really cheap item to fix that.

Fire. Lots of it.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Does it autokill vermin for under 30 GP, if not under 3000GP

Fireball just doesn't seem as useful against nonswarm variety and as much as I as wanted fireball for fluff I had better spells.

[Signmaker]

Fire. Lots of it.

...Yes.

What sucks is that even a tornado has no influence on it. D=

[ex cathedra]

Actually, a tornado still checks gargantuan/colossal creatures.

[Signmaker]

Actually, a tornado still checks gargantuan/colossal creatures.

Cept your Scorpion's fort save is crazy.

[ex cathedra]

Right. Not to mention that it has 330 hp, Improved grab + constrict, con damage poison, vermin traits, and tremorsense. Not bad for a fourth level spell.

[Signmaker]

Don't forget immunity to Dispel Magic, due to DC32..

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Nearly unstoppable... anyone got something? What's the reflex save? Maybe grease?

[ex cathedra]

The reflex is low, but the scorpion is like 9x larger than grease's area.

[Oslecamo]

Nearly unstoppable... anyone got something? What's the reflex save? Maybe grease?

Fly/ethereality/burrowing. That damn crab scorpion is still land bound and his attacks aren't magic.

[Saph]

Aether, remember that it takes a standard action to activate a bead of karma. Didn't make any difference in this case, as you would have just used the second buff round to do the combo, but it might matter in future.

[JeminiZero]

I just realized that there is a whole bunch of prospective challengers, but spread across multiple pages, so they're hard to pull together. We might really want a seperate thread for finding matches.

*ahem* So anyone feel like taking on Alita? A beatstick of uncertain tiering between 1 and 3.

[Doc Roc]

Originally, I tracked prospective challengers on the first page, but that didn't seem to help any. There was a recruiting thread in the PbP recruiting forum, but basically no one ever saw it. So ideas:

Separate thread? An off-site tracking system? More diligent first-post maintenance ::gulp:: ?

[Saph]

I just realized that there is a whole bunch of prospective challengers, but spread across multiple pages, so they're hard to pull together. We might really want a seperate thread for finding matches.

*ahem* So anyone feel like taking on Alita? A beatstick of uncertain tiering between 1 and 3.

Could do, but I thought Oskar already had dibs?

[Signmaker]

Dunno if I want to make revisions to Emelyn before I send her out to the wolves, so no J.

[JeminiZero]

Could do, but I thought Oskar already had dibs?


Well, I asked him to start the thread if he wanted to go ahead, but he didn't, so I'm not sure if we are going ahead or not. I think he's waiting for Olo first.

Anyway, since this is merely an exhibition match, Alita can fight more than 1 at once.

Edit: \/ As I was saying :smallbiggrin:

[Olo Demonsbane]

Allright, T. G., heres the thread: Thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6574012#post6574012)

[lvl 1 sharnian]

4th level divine spells and spell slots worth trading for 8th level arcane spells?

Jemini: If you'd like, shall we battle? I've only seen like one other noncaster besides my monks.

[Doc Roc]

how would ya gettin' eighth level arcanes?

[JeminiZero]

Jemini: If you'd like, shall we battle? I've only seen like one other noncaster besides my monks.


Alita is not exactly a non-caster. Its just that her primary (well her only offense) is melee.

Go ahead and make a thread if you want.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I have a non caster...Tier 2.5. She already got killed by Talics 1d123d6+22 damage, but that was unnofficial. I'll fight if you want.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

how would ya gettin' eighth level arcanes?

I'm not, but if I give up favored soul and go only arcane, I could have a sorc level of 16 for spells through greater draconic ritual and loredrake. Right now it's only 15

EDIT: i forgot, I can also get rid of some feats I used for early entry

[Saph]

Well, I asked him to start the thread if he wanted to go ahead, but he didn't, so I'm not sure if we are going ahead or not. I think he's waiting for Olo first.

Anyway, since this is merely an exhibition match, Alita can fight more than 1 at once.

Sure, let's give it a go, then.

I'm about to get on a train for 24 hours to go to Xiamen, so it'll have to wait a day or so. Hopefully I'll be able to get a connection from my new place of residence, so if I can, I'll make a thread then.

- Saph

[JeminiZero]

I have a non caster...Tier 2.5. She already got killed by Talics 1d123d6+22 damage, but that was unnofficial. I'll fight if you want.


Sure thing, start a thread.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

That's a lot of games

[Olo Demonsbane]

...Actually, after looking at my character sheet, my character is...kinda a caster. She doesnt know a single offensive spell though...and doesnt have any levels in a spellcasting class.

Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6574349#post6574349)

[JeminiZero]

That's a lot of games

I'll try and let Olo finish Alita as quickly as possible before the others start then. :smalltongue:

[Olo Demonsbane]

:smallbiggrin: Lets get started then!

[Doc Roc]

Loredrake is contested so I didn't ban it, but I probably should, shouldn't I?

[Saph]

I can't remember exactly what the combo was supposed to be, but yeah, you probably should. :P

[Doc Roc]

Well, it's not terrible without stacking dragonspawn abomination in there... You can, in theory, get +5 levels of sorcerer. I guess I may need to ban phaerimm too. Loredrake is the real problem, though, as abominations are..... well abominations are not suitable for the dungeon for a variety of reasons, and the GDRoP, while good, isn't game breaking.

I'm sorry, sharnian, but I've had to ban loredrake after some deliberation. Your current character is permitted for PvP but may not enter the dungeon. I apologize for not catching this during creation. As a result, you get the first commendation for slipping something by me. What's your character's actual name?

[Olo Demonsbane]

So...Practiced Manifest+Schsim? Any ruling yet?

[Saph]

I'll try and let Olo finish Alita as quickly as possible before the others start then. :smalltongue:

Well, that didn't take long.

[JeminiZero]

Well, that didn't take long.


To those watching perhaps. But for us doing the actual fighting, each round felt like several minutes. :smalltongue:

[T.G. Oskar]

There, Olo. Did first. I'd ask to brace for it while I get a hang of the system, but shouldn't be so bad. Don't get scared if I appear to write too much, though; it's something I can't get off.

Also, expect any PM if necessary to ask some question about the actions and such.

[Talic]

So...Practiced Manifest+Schsim? Any ruling yet?

I've been running it on my guy the same way as it's dealt with RAW. Apply in the most advantageous order.

So, for my Wiz 1/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 9 (Practiced spellcaster and practiced manifester)...

Wiz 10 + 4 CL = 14 CL (Max 13) = 13 CL
Psion 12 + 4 CL = 16 CL (Max 13) = 13 CL
Schism = Psion 12 -8 CL= 4 CL + 4 CL= 8 CL (Max 13) = 8 CL

In theory, if you were a straight Psion 13, you could have a 9 CL Schism, with practiced manifester.

If you then Overchanneled +2 on each, you could manifest 2 powers at ML 15 and ML 11, and, with talented, only take 3d8 damage. If your Psicrystal had a Focus, you could do it once with no damage.

That's my reading, at least.

[Doc Roc]

Talic's reading is the one I have settled on. There are many similarly advantageous cases in other situations, why deny this crucial one to psionicists?

[T.G. Oskar]

I've been running it on my guy the same way as it's dealt with RAW. Apply in the most advantageous order.

So, for my Wiz 1/Psion 3/Cerebremancer 9 (Practiced spellcaster and practiced manifester)...

Wiz 10 + 4 CL = 14 CL (Max 13) = 13 CL
Psion 12 + 4 CL = 16 CL (Max 13) = 13 CL
Schism = Psion 12 -8 CL= 4 CL + 4 CL= 8 CL (Max 13) = 8 CL

In theory, if you were a straight Psion 13, you could have a 9 CL Schism, with practiced manifester.

If you then Overchanneled +2 on each, you could manifest 2 powers at ML 15 and ML 11, and, with talented, only take 3d8 damage. If your Psicrystal had a Focus, you could do it once with no damage.

That's my reading, at least.

Schism only reduces the manifester level by six. So, in that case, would be:

Psion 12, minus six (Schism) = 6, plus Practiced Manifester = 10. With Overchannel, it would be ML 15 (since it allows to exceed normal ML limits) and ML 13 for two powers, each dealing 3d8 damage (for a grand total of 6d8 damage), reduced as mentioned for uses of Talented.

So, you'd manifest powers with a maximum of 15 PP for one, and 13 PP for the other, without being able to expend a focus for metapsionics or another feat, and only being capable of replenishing once with Psionic Meditation.

It's not even close to Twin Spell with the reductions, or even a regular spell cast with a Quickened spell (with the reductions to spell level), since without the boosts to ML, one of the powers would be slightly weaker than the other, while the caster level of the spells would remain as-is.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Jemini, I'm ready if you are

Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6575562#post6575562)

[Talic]

Schism only reduces the manifester level by six. So, in that case, would be:

Psion 12, minus six (Schism) = 6, plus Practiced Manifester = 10. With Overchannel, it would be ML 15 (since it allows to exceed normal ML limits) and ML 13 for two powers, each dealing 3d8 damage (for a grand total of 6d8 damage), reduced as mentioned for uses of Talented.

So, you'd manifest powers with a maximum of 15 PP for one, and 13 PP for the other, without being able to expend a focus for metapsionics or another feat, and only being capable of replenishing once with Psionic Meditation.

It's not even close to Twin Spell with the reductions, or even a regular spell cast with a Quickened spell (with the reductions to spell level), since without the boosts to ML, one of the powers would be slightly weaker than the other, while the caster level of the spells would remain as-is.

Only 6? Hm, you're right.

I go 15 and 12, personally, on my build. One of my tricks is that Schism can perform any purely Mental action. So:

It can gain my focus.
It can cast a stilled, silent spell, if I have the Eschew Materials feat (and, with no loss of caster level, because it only reduces manifester level).
It can manifest powers, at a weakened level.

Yes, it allows you to operate at much faster casting, much like a wizard under the effects of Arcane Spellsurge. Quite similar, in fact, as they're both spells that modify other spells as you cast. Spellsurge is higher level, granted, but it also doesn't weaken the effect at all.

All in all, the two effects are about on par, and the Schism/P.M. lets a psion go Nova, and well. But they better hit, because they're pouring their PP out like water when they do it. Unlike Wilder, Overchannel makes you pay the extra augment, so you're lookin' at 7 to start it off, and the next round?

30-60 more points, give or take. Psions can't keep a pace like that up for long. A couple rounds, at most.

[Signmaker]

I have met the devil and she is Alita. Like a winged executioner of doom, her angel form awes me to tears before utter blackness engulfs me.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

So... she's a Erinyes?

[Olo Demonsbane]

She is much worse than that.

:smalleek:

That was a fun fight though...though I had absolutely no chance once I saw the buffs afterwards :smalltongue:

EDIT: Heh, that ruling means that I beat Memalato and WaterPenguin43 TWICE.

[Signmaker]

In other news, I couldn't slide the Aspect of the Dragon druid variant past Tide. Drat. :smalltongue:

[T.G. Oskar]

Whew, it took me some time. It's pretty hard to need to post everything in one single post, without editing or previewing. But finally, got the rolls I needed.

Which means I need to be VERY careful on my description, meaning I'll probably need to proofread it and then later add the rolls and such.

[Olo Demonsbane]

The rolls cant be edited in, unfortanately. Just so you know.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Can someone explain the polymorph ban? It says that polymorph is banned unless it specifies one creature. Does that mean that if I learn polymorph, I have to type on the spell list say, Polymorph (human commoner) or does it mean that I have to pick a spell that's strictly one creature like Aspect of the Chromatic Dragon.


•Kobolds may not qualify for lore-drake or epic feats

Any other races that can loredrake?

[Claudius Maximus]

I think it's supposed to include later spells with the Polymorph subschool, like Dragonshape, but not, for example, Shapechange.

Edit: Would Fiendform be ok?

[Adumbration]

Can someone explain the polymorph ban? It says that polymorph is banned unless it specifies one creature. Does that mean that if I learn polymorph, I have to type on the spell list say, Polymorph (human commoner) or does it mean that I have to pick a spell that's strictly one creature like Aspect of the Chromatic Dragon.



Does this apply to characters approved before the ban?

I think it means that Polymorph the spell is banned, but that spells that specify a creature to morph to are allowed. For an example, in PHB II and Complete Mage there are several such spells.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Well, it's not terrible without stacking dragonspawn abomination in there... You can, in theory, get +5 levels of sorcerer. I guess I may need to ban phaerimm too. Loredrake is the real problem, though, as abominations are..... well abominations are not suitable for the dungeon for a variety of reasons, and the GDRoP, while good, isn't game breaking.

I'm sorry, sharnian, but I've had to ban loredrake after some deliberation. Your current character is permitted for PvP but may not enter the dungeon. I apologize for not catching this during creation. As a result, you get the first commendation for slipping something by me. What's your character's actual name?

Oh now I see the post, his real name Kabol (Kobold Guy). But if I had known I would have gotten commended, I would have milked it better

EDIT: How does the LA buyoff work, does it mean you can pick higher than LA+1 and buyoff till the LA is at +1 or below?

[Talic]

I think it's supposed to include later spells with the Polymorph subschool, like Dragonshape, but not, for example, Shapechange.

Edit: Would Fiendform be ok?

If it specifies a specific form? Yes.

If it allows you to choose from multiple forms? No.

[T.G. Oskar]

The thing is, even as a specific form, you also have to deal with specific changes once you polymorph. The specific form spells bend a bit of the rules, allowing you to have the special attacks and the special qualities of the specified creature, in exchange for limiting the form to just one.

However, some forms are still strong, and can get slightly stronger. Examples would be some of the Dragon forms, which also provide their breath weapon while not removing their multiple attacks or flight ability. That alone can still be devastating.

But definitely: multiple-choice polymorph spells (and thus, Metamorphosis/Greater Metamorphosis) are barred. It's difficult to say whether the other spells of the Polymorph subschool (the single form versions) can get past.

You can say roughly the same of Tenser's/Nightstalker's Transformation. Those aren't specifically banned, but just silly and rather pointless to get.

[JeminiZero]

I need a DM (well one which is not planning on fighting Alita) to take a look here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6578378#post6578378) to tell me whether Alita can be subject to burning blood.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Ok, T. G. is at -484 hp after one full attack.

Fun fun fun!

[Kallisti]

Does Lightning Maces + Aptitude Keen Scimitars count as an infinite loop?

(If I need to explain I will in spoiler).

OP read if confused.

Basically Aptitude allows a scimitar to count as a mace to use Lightning Mace from Complete warrior.
Lightning Maces allows extra attack when ever roll Critical threat (15-20)
Which means assuming I hit: 25% chance of getting extra attack whenever I attack.


It won't be infinite because I'm unlikely to get that lucky, but it could go on a bit.

What book is Aptitude from?

[ex cathedra]

Tome of Battle. It's not infinite.

[T.G. Oskar]

Ok, T. G. is at -484 hp after one full attack.

Fun fun fun!

Heh. I accept my loss.

Though, there were two things I wanted to point out, Olo. Look at the RP thread once again.

Still, with at least two attacks hitting, I would have bitten the dust. Unless I can get a new ruling, in which I might just counter back. Still, it was a surprise attack, so...

[JeminiZero]

I have met the devil and she is Alita. Like a winged executioner of doom, her angel form awes me to tears before utter blackness engulfs me.


In truth though, the character she is based on is a rather sad one. Constantly being broken and rebuilt both psychologically and physically as a pawn in some very heartless schemes.


So... she's a Erinyes?



She is much worse than that.


Hey she's not that bad. At least she doesn't deal 400+ damage and 33 con (or for that matter, 123d6, or 46d4) damage in 1 round. :smalltongue: (See, this is why HiPS builds are so prevalent)

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Does Arcane Preparation allow sorcerers to prepare spells from a spellbook?

[imperialspectre]

No, the feat text as written only allows you to prepare "spells you know." Although given the mechanical disadvantages sorcerers have compared to wizards, what you're suggesting might be an okay house rule.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

I just meant for the purposes of feat and other stuff qualification since it says prepare "as a wizard" so they would need a spellbook to prepare from if they want to use arcane preparation

[Talic]

I may try my hand at a DMManiac in a bit... For unofficial matchups, of course.

[Doc Roc]

My ruling is that yes, you need to use a spellbook, but you can only work with your spells known. And yes, for our purposes, sorcerers can scribe to a spellbook. I'm just fed up with WotC screwballing sorcerers.

Just remember, Talic....there's some ban\restrict rules regarding nightsticks and similar items.

[Doc Roc]

Consumptive field's degenerate case of bizarre stacking is not the accepted reading of RAW for ToS. Attempts to advantage yourself of it will result in consumption. Fix-list has also been adjusted to soften the artificer nerfs. They should now be exceedingly playable.

Tainted sorcerer\scholar and cancer mage are now ba-ba-ba-banned.

[Talic]

Well, I could argue that the restriction stating that "extra turn attempts from items are considered unnamed bonuses from the same source" doesn't apply to nightsticks, as a Nightstick doesn't provide extra turning attempts. It provides a feat. :smallbiggrin:

But seriously, I know. I don't like DMMing high cost meta. I much prefer DMMing low cost spells. Extend Spell, for instance, gets tremendous mileage. I mean, yeah, I could easily design a beast with 35 turn attempts and DMM Persist. But where's the fun in that?

[Doc Roc]

So could I. In fact, you've seen me do it. Man, I love favored soul for select purposes.

"What's MAD again?"


The notice that they are unnamed bonuses supersedes the existing mechanism for the function of nightsticks, is what I meant, basically. Since the existing mechanism is ridiculously stupid.

[Talic]

If anything, I'd use them for Embrace/Shun, since if I gave up one, the next one would then take effect (Yes, they may overlap, but multiple non-stacking bonuses do create redundancy for when one is lost).

It could also be done with familiars and the Alertness feat, I suppose.

[ex cathedra]

JeminiZero, I'm not doubting your character-building abilities, but I'd like to know how you got around Delay Death not having a fixed range.

[JeminiZero]

JeminiZero, I'm not doubting your character-building abilities, but I'd like to know how you got around Delay Death not having a fixed range.

The short answer is that I didn't. Its one of those things that got overlooked in between conceptualizing a build and using it. Its one of the commonly known tricks that I assumed somehow worked.

*Goes off to research how did the Cheater of Mystra and Twice Betrayer of Shar do it*

Edit: Looks like I have to rearrange her feats and fit Ocular Spell somewhere inside.

[Saph]

Back again. Ready for a match if you want it, JZ.

- Saph

[JeminiZero]

Back again. Ready for a match if you want it, JZ.

- Saph

Sure. Go ahead and start a thread.

[Saph]

Thread is here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6581653#post6581653) Post when you're ready.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Anyone here? We need a DM ruling for Jemini's character and burning blood

[JeminiZero]

Anyone here? We need a DM ruling for Jemini's character and burning blood

Saph has given us a ruling (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6582201&postcount=34). We'll roll with that for now.

[Doc Roc]

Sorry JZ, I should have caught that but I assumed you knew and had a way around it.

[Signmaker]

Aw crap, Lesser Aasimar have a buy-off thing going on.

*Fixes Emelyn, who is now sadly 12th level class-wise.*

Edit: Nevermind, I'm an idiot.

[T.G. Oskar]

Aw crap, Lesser Aasimar have a buy-off thing going on.

*Fixes Emelyn, who is now sadly 12th level class-wise.*

Hunh? Doesn't the Lesser Aasimar is basically removing some of its racial abilities and placing them as a class? It's not exactly a buy-off, IIRC, though you can technically regain your racial abilities through taking the Aasimar racial class.

Perhaps that's what you're suggesting? Because if not, Aasimar with LA buyoff is what you actually wanted, not Lesser Aasimar with LA buyoff.

[Signmaker]

...Yeah, I totally misread that.

Query: Can Sanctified Spells be placed on wands?

[T.G. Oskar]

...Yeah, I totally misread that.

Query: Can Sanctified Spells be placed on wands?

Yes, any Sanctified spell (if you're referring to the BoED spells that can be cast by virtually all spellcasting classes) can be placed into a wand, scroll or staff. However, and be clear about this: the sacrifice component and abstinence components must be provided as usual by the caster. For example, if the sacrifice component is 2 points of Strength damage, the user of the wand with the Sanctified spell must pay the component each time it uses the spell. As well, you can't use the wand if the spell has an abstinence component you haven't fulfilled, though the instances are rare and far between. Also, it can't be used by evil spellcasters (though in that case, it depends on whether Tide can rule that you can imitate an alignment with UMD)

[ex cathedra]

Also, JeminiZero, if you hadn't noticed yet:

Ocular spell does not, repeat, does not qualify things as persistifable for ToS purposes even though it should.

[Talic]

Yes, any Sanctified spell (if you're referring to the BoED spells that can be cast by virtually all spellcasting classes) can be placed into a wand, scroll or staff. However, and be clear about this: the sacrifice component and abstinence components must be provided as usual by the caster. For example, if the sacrifice component is 2 points of Strength damage, the user of the wand with the Sanctified spell must pay the component each time it uses the spell. As well, you can't use the wand if the spell has an abstinence component you haven't fulfilled, though the instances are rare and far between. Also, it can't be used by evil spellcasters (though in that case, it depends on whether Tide can rule that you can imitate an alignment with UMD)


Emulate an Alignment

Some magic items have positive or negative effects based on the user’s alignment. Use Magic Device lets you use these items as if you were of an alignment of your choice. You can emulate only one alignment at a time.
Per SRD, emulating an alignment with UMD has a DC of 30.

[Signmaker]

Nifty. I do believe I'll ditch 7th level casting for Craft Wondrous Item usage on Emelyn.

Another question for a Monk/Samurai I'm making: How does Luminous Armor interact with monk abilities?

[Olo Demonsbane]

I have a few characters in the pressure cooker...

Because you wanted to know, I am taking Extra Spell (Bite of the Werebear) for the amazing things it gives a melee character.

[T.G. Oskar]

Another question for a Monk/Samurai I'm making: How does Luminous Armor interact with monk abilities?

Well, by description it wouldn't grant the benefits, but Luminous Armor should be treated mostly as a Mage Armor spell. It does say "protective, shimmering aura of light" and it specifies that it doesn't restrict movement or mobility, so aside from the armor bonus to AC, it wouldn't be restrictive as mundane armor. So, in theory, it would grant your Wisdom bonus to AC, but it would cause Strength damage at the end of the duration.

As for the ruling: it depends on interpretation. While it has a pretty stringent DC, the idea of the skill is to eliminate the penalties granted by wearing items such as a Holy Avenger while evil. Though, I presume it would also apply given the Sanctified spells are restricted, which goes along with the essence of the UMD use delimitation.

As for the gain of Craft Wondrous Item: did you really meant it, or just Craft Wand? Also, 7th level spells can be quite potent, depending on the list.

[Signmaker]

Well, by description it wouldn't grant the benefits, but Luminous Armor should be treated mostly as a Mage Armor spell. It does say "protective, shimmering aura of light" and it specifies that it doesn't restrict movement or mobility, so aside from the armor bonus to AC, it wouldn't be restrictive as mundane armor. So, in theory, it would grant your Wisdom bonus to AC, but it would cause Strength damage at the end of the duration.

As for the gain of Craft Wondrous Item: did you really meant it, or just Craft Wand? Also, 7th level spells can be quite potent, depending on the list.

I guess I'll wait on a Tide ruling for the first. As to the second, I meant it. A lot of stat-boosters happen to be in the domain of druid spells, so that's cheaper items there. Additionally, my feat slot doesn't happen to be able to fit Craft Wand, but it'll fit Craft Wondrous Item. And while 7th level spells are potent, my build doesn't really effectively utilize them.


Edit: Any rules on Masterwork Items?

[Olo Demonsbane]

I am conceeding my victory to T.G. because of a lot of mistakes made with my character that neither I nor Tide caught.

[T.G. Oskar]

I'd rather go to a no-contest because the build is sound and reasonable, but the slight mistakes and reworks require some heavy working. But I'll let Tide decide what to do of it.

I rather noticed that I do well scanning for irregularities in the builds. While that may make me ineligible for continuing on the Test, I could make a good second opinion in case of checking builds. I find a bit odd that Tide missed two key factors while revising, which essentially cut Olo's build power in half. Olo's build is still doable, but it'll require a bit of fixing.

So, um...whaddya think of it? Two (or even three) heads think better than one.

[Talic]

After looking at it?

No.

The key factors completely destroyed the character's primary defense, when found untenable.

The one ocular addendum on the front page takes this from Tier 0.5 to tier 3, maybe lower.

[Doc Roc]

More help is better. :)

Generally the policy is a no-penalties rematch in cases of build failure.
One of the core assumptions this endeavor is build on is that you are all trustworthy. I have had to turn a couple of contestants down because of what they were after, but I really enjoy our particular take on the community ethos here. Talic, I don't remember any specific addendum for ocular spell... Though I should have some... I have moved it to the front page now. My humble apologies if it has damaged any builds. There are three other ways to make non-personal spells persistable, but two of them cost levels in a class.

New Ruling:
Extend and persist do not stack advantageously.

[ex cathedra]

I thought that was generally assumed.

Anyways, I'm going to stop brainstorming for builds until the dungeon eats my gish.

Which it will, because he (and I) have no idea as to how to proceed through the dungeon.

I'm not familiar with any other ways of persisting delay death, which is why I brought it up.

[Doc Roc]

Hints:
Anything that gives a fixed range works.
Anything.


Earthbound spell, which uses adjacent squares.
Arguably reach spell itself.
Some variants of reach spell also work.

[ex cathedra]

I was brainstorming, after not seeing any white text.
Which you had to edit in. Thanks. :smalltongue:

Additionally, might I suggest ordering the rules updates? That is, by way of spoilers, line breaks, etc., sorting the various rules by categories such as specific spell changes/bannings, prestige classes, and so on? As of right now, everything's rather haphazard and hard to sort through. I could assist, if you'd like.

[Doc Roc]

If you could help with that, I'd be stupidly grateful. Tonight I'm going to start writing up the dungeon, and trying to finish the sorcerer's guidebook.

Is anyone playing a sorcerer in the ToS? If so, would anyone like to write a campaign diary for the sorcerer's guide?

[ex cathedra]

Sure, then. I'm going to grab a bite to eat, but I'll get right on it later. It's a lazy sunday, and this sounds somewhat better than making npcs for my DM.

Also, no. Wizard.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I am, but I'm not very good at it, if my 2 losses to 1 victory record is any indication.

[Doc Roc]

DMs never use my NPCs. :(

Not your fault. You were building for a game, the others were building for a slaughterhouse. :)

[T.G. Oskar]

More help is better. :)

Fine by me. Though, that means I might not be capable of participating in matches, as I'd be holding a good amount of metagame knowledge. Not that it would help with the current character, but on future occasions I could build a character that simply enough would be able to build on several defenses. Plus, it would be a bit disadvantageous. I mostly pointed the mistakes, but I may also do suggestions for keeping the strength of the build through legal methods.


Generally the policy is a no-penalties rematch in cases of build failure.
One of the core assumptions this endeavor is build on is that you are all trustworthy. I have had to turn a couple of contestants down because of what they were after, but I really enjoy our particular take on the community ethos here.

I went for no-contest since both Olo and I know very well how our characters are. We shared the character sheets, so it's going to be a metagame-vs.-metagame battle, and that would be unfair. I know that I would lose to Olo in a rematch because of how he's built, but that would also allow me to make some stuff I neglected to do before, so it's mostly a battle no longer fair. In the end, since we both pretty much conceded the battle to the other, it's reasonable to make it a no-contest instead of hassling for a rematch.

Also, mostly true. Olo's build is meant for slaughtering, if the original concept and 400+ damage say something, for example. It's strikingly different from mine, which was rather different in aspect but built mostly for battle . So it makes sense that a build made for the dungeon has troubles against a purely battle-based build.

Also, found that there was no big need for making a guide. dman beat me to it a long time ago, although his guide and my reasoning work differently. I'd love to do a bit more complete Paladin guide, though: there's a great one in Internet, but I feel it's slightly incomplete and could use some additions to it (also, focused on the base Paladin and not in all variants)

[lvl 1 sharnian]

If you could help with that, I'd be stupidly grateful. Tonight I'm going to start writing up the dungeon, and trying to finish the sorcerer's guidebook.

Is anyone playing a sorcerer in the ToS? If so, would anyone like to write a campaign diary for the sorcerer's guide?

Oooo! Pick me! All my casters have been sorcerers! Although what do you mean by a campaign diary?

[JeminiZero]

Also, JeminiZero, if you hadn't noticed yet



Ocular spell does not, repeat, does not qualify things as persistifable for ToS purposes even though it should.



:smallannoyed: Then I suppose its Earthbound instead of Ocular spell.

And I have to rewrite Alita.

Again.

Its almost like the original character, she keeps getting broken and rebuilt. :smalltongue:

[ex cathedra]

Ocular spell does not does not qualify things as persistiable for ToS purposes. Instead, in this case and similar cases, the original range is checked.

I don't believe that Delay Death is persistable anymore. I may be wrong, I'm sending Tide a message regarding rewriting this rule.

[Doc Roc]

The issue isn't delay death. It's that this sets a precedent identical to the one that the Twice Betrayer of Shaar relies on. For exhibition matches, I am prepared to allow earthbound spell, since unlike ocular or reach, it's not good for a damn thing on its own.

[ex cathedra]

It seems my reading was off, then. Apologies. I was simply using delay death as an example, since JZ uses it.

[Doc Roc]

:: nods :: not a problem. I've gone ahead and given you a commendation message in the hall of heroes, JZ.
Whatever comes of Alita, she got past me twice. :)
She is permitted to use earthbound spell for exhibition matches, and is the last character permitted to do so.

[Saph]

Is anyone playing a sorcerer in the ToS?

There's mine. She's doing reasonably well so far, too.

- Saph

[Olo Demonsbane]

Is there any particular reason why we cant use Fractional BAB and Saves?

[ex cathedra]

I'm not sure. Generally, though, I kind of feel that fractional bonuses reward people for not being careful with lost BAB, etc. I don't use the system much, but I can see how many might.

[Olo Demonsbane]

I used it before I got Unearthed Arcana. I feel really weird not using it...it reduces all of my save bonuses and my BAB by at least 1.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Now I truly regret my spell choice, I have but 2 blaster spells, one is transmutation and the other is low level, and I'm facing a high fort person

[Doc Roc]

I personally like fractional BaB but it's technically not OGL content I don't think, so most GMs don't allow it at all. I have a couple of back-pocket builds that do rely on it so... :: shrugs :: ToS is also a testing ground for my 3.51 rules-set.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Its in a side bar. Why oh why did they have to put it in a stupid sidebar?

[Doc Roc]

I don't know. They put a LOT of good stuff in sidebars in that thing.

Like the effect that gives the prestige bard and prestige paladin their actual spell lists.

[Saph]

It's a little cruel to post this, so I hope JZ will forgive me, but it was just too funny. :P

Remember the Order of the Stick strip with Roy and Xykon's duel? The one here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html)?

My character, Elanora, is currently fighting JZ's Alita, and just pulled something off which I don't think I'll ever get the chance to do again. Read from the top of the page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119488&page=2) and go down. I'm pretty sure you'll laugh. :P

- Saph

[Signmaker]

Saph, you win a trophy for making an OotS in an optimized PvP fight (to the death, no less). That was beautiful.

[Olo Demonsbane]

1 cookie and 1 internet

[T.G. Oskar]

Ugh, it's a pain to do painstaking scanning to character sheets, but it's worthwhile.

I think I can do a two-day scanning, working first day with hard ruling, ability scores and BAB/saves, and second day for spells, HP and magic item costs. Perhaps a three day scan, but eventually all the sheet should be scanned properly.

As for fractionals, it's not that potent if you consider it as a way to get just one extra BAB or saving throw base score point. It favors multiclassing rather than single-classing, so it's a quick fix to it. I'd say yes, but allowed to everyone; else, it can't be allowed.

And technically, you're supposed to have the books so it would count if the DM approves.

Now, if I can get to make a competition or campaign with a specific rule I'd wish to work with, it'd be golden. 'Course, probably not here.

[ex cathedra]

I made a typo in the word 'allowed' in the metamagic section.

[Doc Roc]

UA is OGL, so it's in most SRDs.

[Talic]

I'll have my fourth character ready for matches shortly. As my other guy actually won a ranked match, I don't wanna get this one too involved in anything serious.

Exhibition only. I actually fancy a go at that angel, come to think of it.

[Doc Roc]

Exxxcccceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellent.
For the purposes of this exhibition, touch is fixed range, and earthbound spell allows persistance of normally disallowed spells.

Gentlemen! You may commence at your leisure.

[Olo Demonsbane]

TG, you dont have to do all of that. Especially magic items...that would take so much time...and Im pretty sure the spells are not that hard to do yourself.

Maybe just a quick glance at those things...most people are generally honest about magic items.

[JeminiZero]

It's a little cruel to post this, so I hope JZ will forgive me, but it was just too funny. :P


I will never forgive you! Never, you hear! :smalltongue:

I blame the lack of buff rounds on this one. Although honestly, the situation is not nearly so funny when you consider you're a witch beating on a poor helpless angel.



I'll have my fourth character ready for matches shortly. As my other guy actually won a ranked match, I don't wanna get this one too involved in anything serious.

Exhibition only. I actually fancy a go at that angel, come to think of it.

What is this? Beat on Alita day? If you really want, go ahead and make a thread.

[Talic]

You don't need to worry about a lack of buff rounds. I'm more than happy to accommodate you.

[Saph]

I blame the lack of buff rounds on this one.

Well, I'm not so hot on the concept of buff rounds. My usual reaction to the idea is "You can spend as many rounds as you like buffing, and I'll be spending those rounds attacking you."


Although honestly, the situation is not nearly so funny when you consider you're a witch beating on a poor helpless angel.

Hey, I'm not actually trying to kill her. Elanora actually feels quite sorry for her.

- Saph

[JeminiZero]

Well, I'm not so hot on the concept of buff rounds. My usual reaction to the idea is "You can spend as many rounds as you like buffing, and I'll be spending those rounds attacking you."


Not necessarily. Remember that the contestants are essentially teleported into the arena, while being told to kill the other fellow. It would not be unreasonable to believe during the teleport, or during the situation briefing, they might have a chance to cast some spells.



Hey, I'm not actually trying to kill her. Elanora actually feels quite sorry for her.


No one will believe a story like that after you dropped her from 200 feet.

[Saph]

Oh, like it's going to do any permanent damage.

[T.G. Oskar]

TG, you dont have to do all of that. Especially magic items...that would take so much time...and Im pretty sure the spells are not that hard to do yourself.

Maybe just a quick glance at those things...most people are generally honest about magic items.

Well, if someone can double-check your math in case you missed something, and you find yourself with some GP you thought you hadn't used, I'd say it's fair.

Think of it as peer review. Even while the other person is being honest, it's better to revise it completely. That way, you're sure to get all rulings right.


Hey, I'm not actually trying to kill her. Elanora actually feels quite sorry for her.

Just as sorry as Xykon felt to kill a PC, right? This is a deathmatch, there is no need to feel shame or pity. Though, if you're good, you may not enjoy the sight of death. If you're evil...well, cackle with glee.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Ah, ok, if you really want to...I still think its kinda a waste of your time.

[Saph]

Just as sorry as Xykon felt to kill a PC, right? This is a deathmatch, there is no need to feel shame or pity. Though, if you're good, you may not enjoy the sight of death. If you're evil...well, cackle with glee.

Exhibition match. Elanora is barred from entering the dungeon, so she's just doing this out of her own motivations. In this case, I figure her elven friends have asked her to stop Alita from killing everyone else. I like to have a motivation for my duels.

[Talic]

I will never forgive you! Never, you hear! :smalltongue:

I blame the lack of buff rounds on this one. Although honestly, the situation is not nearly so funny when you consider you're a witch beating on a poor helpless angel.



What is this? Beat on Alita day? If you really want, go ahead and make a thread.

If a fall from 200 feet won't REALLY hurt you long, then this will be a match to remember. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6587843#post6587843)

Your opponent is named Bruce Banner. When he gets mad, he goes Lou Ferrigno.

[Talic]

And the fight commences.

[JeminiZero]

We need a ruling on this. Can Resilient sphere manifest in an area with a tree?



the sphere covers V15-X17. I've got CL 15 so it's 15 ft diameter




Hmm... I'm not sure if you can manifest the sphere there, as there is a 20 foot tall tree in the way. The sphere has to be able to contain the creature to successfully manifest, so having something else sticking out like that might stop it.

[Doc Roc]

I normally allow the sphere to deform, but I think in this case it's a no-go by RAW\RAI.

[Talic]

Well, that came to an anticlimax.

Note to people:

It's your responsibility to take reasonable steps to prevent your opponent from seeing information he's not entitled to. That is usually accomplished by spoilering rolls, and actions.

It's your responsibility also to take steps to not read your opponent's spoilers. If you have instant notification, read the subject, adn go to the thread to read the post. If you don't think you can trust yourself to do that, choose to have your sub not notify you by e-mail.

Police yourselves, people. The whole concept of PvP by PbP is that everyone has to act with integrity for it to work. One person starts reading spoilers? It breaks.

[JeminiZero]

It's your responsibility to take reasonable steps to prevent your opponent from seeing information he's not entitled to. That is usually accomplished by spoilering rolls, and actions.


And, by editting in your spoilers only after the initial post. To save the sanity of poor folk who rely on e-mail notifications. No seriously. Its very difficult to wake up in the morning, see that a thread has been updated, and then search through the first X pages of the combined on-going games forums for a thread that was updated just after you slept, and has since been buried.

It also helps to ALWAYS label your spoilers, demarcate clearly which your opponent can open, and which he can't. Add Observer's Only to the title to things you don't want your opponent to read. (Don't use OOC, that could simply friendly banter that is not restricted as such).

[Talic]

And, by editting in your spoilers only after the initial post. To save the sanity of poor folk who rely on e-mail notifications.

It also helps to label your spoilers, to demarcate clearly which your opponent can open, and which he can't. Add Observer's Only to the title to things you don't want your opponent to read.

There's the fact that you can't edit in rolls.

No. Editing in spoilers is NOT the solution. This is because you then cannot make a single roll in any of those spoilers. No spot checks, no spellcraft, no anything.

You failed to police yourself, Jemini. You read privileged information the entire match, and only when I actually caught you doing it did you bother to let me know.

If you were as well-intentioned as you say, you'd have done that right after you looked in my buffs post. Or in any of the other posts that was clearly formatted in the same way, rather than waiting until I call you out on it.

No. You can't claim that you're looking for fair play, when you silently exploited an advantage more than once, and only 'came out' when you were called out.

You get match notification by e-mail. The subject of the e-mail gives you everything you need to know to come here, and read it. Why not do that? I mean, you have to come here to reply anyway, right?

Right?

So when you see the subject: "Reply to thread 'TOS Exhibition Match' ", from "Giant In The Playground"???

Go to the thread, and avoid the cheating.

That could have been a really fun match.

As is? It was a really, really big letdown.

Thanks a lot.

[JeminiZero]

There's the fact that you can't edit in rolls.


Actually you don't need to. Rolls results are obscured in the notifcation e-mails (and I know this because I rely on them so much).



No. Editing in spoilers is NOT the solution. This is because you then cannot make a single roll in any of those spoilers. No spot checks, no spellcraft, no anything.


And again I beg to differ. Check back to all my previous threads, you will see that is exactly what I did.



You failed to police yourself, Jemini. You read privileged information the entire match, and only when I actually caught you doing it did you bother to let me know.

No. You can't claim that you're looking for fair play, when you silently exploited an advantage more than once, and only 'came out' when you were called out.


Again, incorrect. I have mentioned (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6586712&postcount=47) this before in my other matches. This is merely your first match with me so you were unaware of these incidences.



If you were as well-intentioned as you say, you'd have done that right after you looked in my buffs post. Or in any of the other posts that was clearly formatted in the same way, rather than waiting until I call you out on it.


I should point out that your post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6588567&postcount=30) wasn't clearly formatted. There was no "Observers Only" anywhere in the post.



You get match notification by e-mail. The subject of the e-mail gives you everything you need to know to come here, and read it. Why not do that? I mean, you have to come here to reply anyway, right?

Right?


I editted my previous post to mention this, so I can see why you didn't see it. But When you recieve an E-mail notification, its NOT as easy as coming to the forums and findin the thread. Especailly if the notifcation was sent just after you slept. The thread in question will since have been buried.

[Talic]

I editted my previous post to mention this, so I can see why you didn't see it. But When you recieve an E-mail notification, its NOT as easy as coming to the forums and findin the thread. Especailly if the notifcation was sent just after you slept. The thread in question will since have been buried.

Oh really?

Each and every single time you post a reply, you gotta find that buried thread.

You have to do it anyway.

So yeah, it really is. The only reason anyone would make such things is if they want to require people to post "Rolls only skeletons" and edit everything in afterwards (which is extra steps, and extra hassle).

How many Extra steps?

Prepare a draft of the letter.
Spoiler it, remove everything but rolls. Post it.
Go back. Edit all the words in.

And this is to do what?

Make it 5 seconds easier for you to read it in your inbox?

How freakin unreasonable is that, since, after you read it, you:
GO TO THE THREAD TO REPLY?

Or do you not reply to these?

Just go to the thread in the first place, and you save everyone a heck of a lot of time.

Stop justifying.
You're wrong.

And, I'll put it this way... If I was DMing anything, and found you did it? Rocks fall, you die.

[JeminiZero]

Each and every single time you post a reply, you gotta find that buried thread.

You have to do it anyway.


No you don't. The way E-mail notifications work, you get a direct link to the post, without searching through X pages of a highly active ongoing games forum (or whatever other forum the thread is in). That is the MAIN purpose of E-mail notifications. Not to tell you the contents of what has been posted (although it does that incidentally).



So yeah, it really is. The only reason anyone would make such things is if they want to require people to post "Rolls only skeletons" and edit everything in afterwards (which is extra steps, and extra hassle).

How many Extra steps?

Prepare a draft of the letter.
Spoiler it, remove everything but rolls. Post it.
Go back. Edit all the words in.


You are mistaken. But I don't blame you since you haven't had much practice in this matter. You merely split the post in 2. First half all the public info. Second half all the observer only info. Post the first half, then edit the 2nd half in.

Having a draft certainly helps. How many times have you submitted a post and it failed to submit (slow internet, GiTP just went down for update)? Its terrible, you have to retype everything over again! For this reason I usually draft my posts first anyway. (Not just in Test of Spite, I do this for all PbP, and for general forum posts)



How freakin unreasonable is that, since, after you read it, you:
GO TO THE THREAD TO REPLY?


Like I said, it depends on how long since the thread was updated. If very long ago, be prepared to go through many pages. If only just, than not so much.



And, I'll put it this way... If I was DMing anything, and found you did it? Rocks fall, you die.


And of course you are entitled to your ruling. But I feel I should humbly point out to you that just because you are a DMing, doesn't necessarily make you right. It only makes you strong.

[Talic]

No you don't. The way E-mail notifications work, you get a direct link to the poast, without searching through X pages of a highly active ongoing games forum (or whatever other forum the thread is in). That is the MAIN purpose of E-mail notifications. Not to tell you the contents of what has been posted (although it does that incidentally).
Is it possible to click that link without reading the message, there, champ?


You are mistaken. But I don't blame you since you haven't had much practice in this matter. You merely split the post in 2. First half all the public info. Second half all the observer only info. Post the first half, then edit the 2nd half in. First, don't patronize me. Second, I'm not mistaken.

What if Observer only info includes a roll? Gotta make that seperate, then edit in everything around it. What if it includes an attack? For example, in the case of attacking a summoned creature that the opponent no longer has LOS to? That's a lot of rolls to edit in around.

Don't assume a lack of experience. I've played, and ran, MANY PbP arenas. In fact, I'm high ref of another on GitP. You know what? This issue has never come up there. Ever.

Click on "Quick Links", then "Subscribed Threads". Poof. Every thread you've subscribed to. All the ones with recent activity? Conveniently right there on the top. Where's Quick Links? In the banner, just to the left of "Log Out".

Having a draft certainly helps. How many times have you submitted a post and it failed to submit (slow internet, GiTP just went down for update)? Its terrible, you have to retype everything over again! For this reason I usually draft my posts first anyway.Or Click <Back> on your browser, and there's the whole post. At least, if you click back within 5 or so minutes of the failed post.


Like I said, it depends on how long since the thread was updated. If very long ago, be prepared to go through many pages. If only just, than not so much.Quick Links, buddy. That'll leave out any threads you don't subscribe to.


And of course you are entitled to your ruling. But I feel I should humbly point out to you that just because you are a DMing, doesn't necessarily make you right. It only makes you strong.
Call it statistical analysis. I've seen over 250 matches, from over 50 players, on GitP.

You're the first one with this issue.

EDIT: I'll make it easy. Go here, then bookmark it (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/subscription.php).

[JeminiZero]

First, don't patronize me. Second, I'm not mistaken.


Just trying to be nice...



What if Observer only info includes a roll? Gotta make that seperate, then edit in everything around it. What if it includes an attack? For example, in the case of attacking a summoned creature that the opponent no longer has LOS to? That's a lot of rolls to edit in around.


I dunno about that. I always worked on the premise that the summoner keeps track of the summoned monsters stats, so even out of LoS, its still the summoner that has to look at the rolls and keep track of his summons HP.



Click <Back> on your browser, and there's the whole post. At least, if you click back within 5 or so minutes of the failed post.


Doesn't always work for me. Which is why I resort to drafting. Nothing is more frustrating than having your carefully written post dissappear, so much so that the extra the 2 clicks to copy and paste are negligible by comparison.



Click on "Quick Links", then "Subscribed Threads". Poof. Every thread you've subscribed to. All the ones with recent activity? Conveniently right there on the top. Where's Quick Links? In the banner, just to the left of "Log Out".Or


Oh wow. I actually didn't know about that. :smallredface:



Quick Links, buddy. That'll leave out any threads you don't subscribe to.


Well, then it seems that I stand corrected. You don't have to rely on e-mail notifications to find buried threads.



Call it statistical analysis. I've seen over 250 matches, from over 50 players, on GitP.

You're the first one with this issue.


I blame my lack of technical expertise. In future I shall endeavour to rely on the quick links more often.

And again, I apologize for any offence I caused. I would like to assure that it was never intentional malice on my part.

[T.G. Oskar]

People, people. Quiet down, please. This is no place to take things personally.

Even though it was the first time I was doing this, I found there's a few things that aid a lot. Dunno if it may help you, but here goes nonetheless. Just consider this something to let your steam go off in a safe way rather than in a frantic way.

When I started, I proposed a few things that usually people wouldn't do, since I'm used to another system of forum roleplaying. I did everything I could on one single post as possible as I could, eventually learning that I was forced to post everything on a single roll. This is insanely hard when you have to post your action as if a description, place your round's actions in spoilers so that no one finds out what they are, place explanations (both the ones that you don't want and the ones you want people to know), and signal an end of turn without previewing or editing. I also found you *can* do something around to fix that, but it's something I'd rather not do since it may seem like cheating.

Afterwards, since I do everything in a single and neatly packed yet marked box, I can await for the action(s) of the next one. Most of the rules I'm used to deal with never, by virtually any circumstance, do a double post. And I mean, by ANY. Not even to bump a thread. Of course, since on that other place I didn't needed to roll for anything (it was more a narrative decision but it has its rules nonetheless) Even though the battle was cut really short, I enjoyed it because I managed to find a good medium between both systems.

Now, to find Olo's thread, I decided to subscribe to it, but always deny e-mail notification. I'd rather check it through the User CP than through my e-mail, since that way I don't get any info placed upon. Also, it links me directly to what I'm going to do, and generally it's more contained and convenient. I learned to do that some time ago, with other threads: it was annoying to receive a notification for every single update, so I cut it off for purposes of not littering my e-mail account and just know where to place it.

Now, I can't get to see what's your problem since I haven't gone to your thread to see the predicament, but I reckon that it's something not covered in the rules (which are most strangely outside the PBP in-character forum and placed mostly in the player recruitment forum) I'd advice some calm and a little breather before this explodes into a flamefest, which would be terrible since we've treated each other with respect and discipline. Most of the time, this is better to solve through PM, if the problem is with another person, than to take it to the thread. Unless, of course, you seek a general consensus.

I know I don't have much of a voice in here, at least not as much of a voice as everyone in here has. But, if you're going to debate your arguments as you debate in other threads (essentially countering point-by-point), mostly to show the disappointment within each other, and the discussion barely has any reasonable argument, then it's better to keep it out of the discussion area.

[Talic]

Oh wow. I actually didn't know about that. :smallredface:

I don't even have them go to my e-mail. Too many windows open to do it your method. My subscriptions are without e-mails now, and just refresh my Subscriptions bookmark every now and again.

It makes the whole process incredibly streamlined, when you're performing LOS checks for 8 matches at once, for instance.

Knowing is half the battle, I suppose. If you'd care to continue the battle, I'll continue, now that THAT's resolved.

[Signmaker]

Woah did I miss a lot over the course of a night.

So, I just realized that my Jane Doe monk qualifies for a PrC much earlier than expected, due to Tide's full-bab rule. As such, I have an empty level that needs replacing. Should I go with the 9th level of my PrC (Granting me a form of SR against targeted spells) or find me some other monk PrC with few entry reqs?

[Talic]

Personal Choice? I'd go a level of Initiator. If level 13 is an initiator level, you get 7th level initiator, which qualifies you, starting, at level 4 maneuvers.

[Signmaker]

o.O

Being a bit unread on the intricacies of Tome of Battle, am I to interpret that as "Pick a martial class. Grab a 4th level maneuver. Go to town" ?

[Saph]

Lots of maneuvers, actually. :)

Do note, though, that almost all mid-to-high-level maneuvers have prerequisites, and the higher-level the maneuver, the heavier the prerequisites. So you'll likely have to grab at least one or two 1st- and 2nd-level maneuvers to be able to get a 4th-level one.

- Saph

[Signmaker]

I....see. (I think)

Well, anything is probably better than the 1 level samurai dip I took for sheer amusement's sake.

[Talic]

o.O

Being a bit unread on the intricacies of Tome of Battle, am I to interpret that as "Pick a martial class. Grab a 4th level maneuver. Go to town" ?

Well, most maneuvers of that level have a prereq or two, but let's take Swordsage, for instance.

Level 1: BAB +0, Saves 0/2/2.
Quick To Act (+1 on Initiative Checks)
Discipline Focus (Weapon focus with all weapons in 1 chosen Discipline)

6 Maneuvers Known
4 Maneuvers Readied
1 Stance Known

Let's say we're going a stealth Bent.

I choose Shadow Hand for Discipline Focus, and get Weapon Focus with: Dagger, Shortsword, Sai, Siangham, Unarmed Strike, and Spiked Chain.

Stance/Maneuvers:I want to Start with The Stance: Assassin's stance (Level 3 Stance). It gives me +2d6 Sneak attack, all the time (you can only use 1 stance at a time, and you activate a stance with a swift action). It requires one other Shadow Hand Maneuver though... So let's see.

Maneuvers:
Level 2: Cloak of Deception. If I ready this maneuver, I can use a swift action and expend the maneuver (Think: Cast a spell), and get the effect of Greater Invisibility for a round.

Level 4: Obscuring Shadow Veil. Requires 2 maneuvers, but that stance above can count as a maneuver for this. If I spend a standard action and use the maneuver, I attack one time, and get +5d6 damage. Also, if I hit, my opponent must make a Fort (15+my Wis) or get a 50% miss chance for a round.

Level 2: Shadow Jaunt. I can spend a standard action, use this maneuver, and teleport 50 feet.

Now? Over to the Diamond Mind Discipline.

Level 1: Moment of Perfect Mind. I spend this one as an immediate action. Whenever I'd make a Will save, I make a concentration check instead, and use that.

Level 2: Emerald Razor. Requires 1 Diamond Mind Maneuver (got it). Use this as a standard action? Make an attack, except it's a touch attack.

Level 4: Ruby Nightmare Blade. Requires 2 DM Maneuvers (got em). Standard action, Make a concentration check (DC= Target's AC), then make a single melee attack. If you made the concentration DC, your attack deals double damage.

Now I get in the stance, and select 4 maneuvers to have ready at the start of a fight. If I use one that was readied, and need it back, as a swordsage, I normally need a full round action to get it back.

[Signmaker]

Wow, that's pretty nifty. Now, I've heard stuff about an unarmed swordsage variant that grants Wis to AC in light armor. That's probably not the right choice for me, I think, because of my absurdedly low Wis score. So I guess I'd stick with a normal swordsage, if I went the swordsage route?

[T.G. Oskar]

Wow, that's pretty nifty. Now, I've heard stuff about an unarmed swordsage variant that grants Wis to AC in light armor. That's probably not the right choice for me, I think, because of my absurdedly low Wis score. So I guess I'd stick with a normal swordsage, if I went the swordsage route?

Then how are you playing a Monk with such a low score? Swordsage actually gives you a benefit that a Monk doesn't (you lose some of the AC bonus, but you can apply your Wis to AC in light armor)

This is with every Swordsage, not just Unarmed Swordsage. USS variant merely grants you the unarmed weapon progression of a Monk.

[Signmaker]

Carmendine Monk.

Also, oh. That's cool.

[JeminiZero]

Stance/Maneuvers:[spoiler]I want to Start with The Stance: Assassin's stance (Level 3 Stance). It gives me +2d6 Sneak attack, all the time (you can only use 1 stance at a time, and you activate a stance with a swift action). It requires one other Shadow Hand Maneuver though... So let's see.


The swordsage text explicitly states that you can only start with level 1 stance, so you can't start with Assassin's stance. I know this because I have made this mistake before. :smallredface:

[9mm]

Wow, that's pretty nifty. Now, I've heard stuff about an unarmed swordsage variant that grants Wis to AC in light armor. That's probably not the right choice for me, I think, because of my absurdedly low Wis score. So I guess I'd stick with a normal swordsage, if I went the swordsage route?

Swordsage base gets wis to Ac in light armor, just don't wear a shield.

[T.G. Oskar]

Carmendine Monk.

Well, you could do better with Warblade. You'd be missing the supernatural maneuvers but instead get some of the nifty Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw maneuvers. Plus you add some benefits based on the amount of Int you have to some skills.

Two levels nets you Uncanny Dodge, which is pretty useful, as well as four maneuvers. Although even just one is nice enough: the dip allows you to get the DM Conc-to-save maneuvers for your weakest save, and you can refresh it with a mere swift action.

[Signmaker]

Two levels nets you Uncanny Dodge, which is pretty useful, as well as four maneuvers. Although even just one is nice enough: the dip allows you to get the DM Conc-to-save maneuvers for your weakest save, and you can refresh it with a mere swift action.

So.... my weakest save happens to be will. It's.... a +20.

[T.G. Oskar]

So.... my weakest save happens to be will. It's.... a +20.

Hmm...I'd have to revise that then. Those saves are pretty high, actually. Still, while getting one of them may seem pointless, have you the chance to get Diamond Defense, it could be worthwhile (though, it's an 8th level maneuver so it's pretty tough to get)

[Saph]

So, my match with Jemini has now stopped imitating Order of the Stick and is instead imitating a hentai production. Just thought I'd mention it.

[Signmaker]

And thus has now become relevant to the interests of my DnD group. Greaaaat. :smallannoyed:

[T.G. Oskar]

So, my match with Jemini has now stopped imitating Order of the Stick and is instead imitating a hentai production. Just thought I'd mention it.

Of the Evard's variety?

Bah. Believe it or not, I did that the first time I played with Eberron. And not even in the midst of a battle. While imitating another webcomic.

Rule 36. Rule 42. That should be enough.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Our battle's dragging out..., but I'm in the clear as long as she doesn't have dispel

[Doc Roc]

And again, I apologize for any offence I caused. I would like to assure that it was never intentional malice on my part.

I certainly think highly of both you and Talic, and look forward to seeing your match continue. If we need a reset, well, it's an exhibition match after all. :)

[Talic]

I certainly think highly of both you and Talic, and look forward to seeing your match continue. If we need a reset, well, it's an exhibition match after all. :)

I'm cool with where the match is right now. He doesn't have a ghost of a chance to catch me with nonmagical flight when I'm magic-assisted. He sprung his trap a smidge early, and I've got a shot cause of that.

[Signmaker]

Jane Doe is ready for combat, official or unofficial I suppose.

[Doc Roc]

She has my dark sanction, though you may wish to have Oskar vet her.

[Signmaker]

Sure, if he'd like to make extra, extra sure that I didn't somehow break one of the most unsalvageable splat mechanics in 3.5...

[Doc Roc]

Well, I'm just hoping against hope that someone will ....


I have no idea. I hate truenaming so much.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Are limited wishes free?

And how would you subvert emulating casting Cure Light Wounds from wish, other than having the Dark Ones laughing at you for paying 5000XP to heal 1d8+5 Hp

What level do sacred exorcists turn undead at if they don't have any other turning classes?

[Signmaker]

Are limited wishes free?

And how would you subvert emulating casting Cure Light Wounds from wish, other than having the Dark Ones laughing at you for paying 5000XP to heal 1d8+5 Hp

What level do sacred exorcists turn undead at if they don't have any other turning classes?

You can't foot the bill for a Wand of CLW, but you can for Wish? o.O

[Talic]

If anyone else would like to go all unofficial on my exhibitionist? If the truenamer's feelin' froggy?

[Signmaker]

Sure, but don't expect much competition.

[Talic]

My guy's pretty much designed to hit you with a sharp pokey thing until you stop moving. I just made him resistant to losing.

[Signmaker]

Mine is more or less resistant to big explodey spells of doom. Doesn't handle pokey very well. Wanna try it anyway?

[Talic]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6592783#post6592783

There's your thread.

[lvl 1 sharnian]

You can't foot the bill for a Wand of CLW, but you can for Wish? o.O

It was an example of how how Tide said that there are no free wishes thus implying there was a drawback to using Wish to cast even such a minor spell.

[T.G. Oskar]

Jane Doe is ready for combat, official or unofficial I suppose.


Sure, if he'd like to make extra, extra sure that I didn't somehow break one of the most unsalvageable splat mechanics in 3.5...


Sure, if he'd like to make extra, extra sure that I didn't somehow break one of the most unsalvageable splat mechanics in 3.5...

Well, you can go with the exhibition match if you desire, but I'll be checking that one. It's not whether the Truenaming can be salvaged or not, but there's times where a bit of bad math can screw up things. Also, the costs of magic items (did you know Necklaces of Natural Weapons, if those are the Savage Species ones), only affect one of the many natural weapons? And if you want to add more, you need to multiply the cost by the number of natural attacks you wish to add? That alone can make or break a monster.

So, I'd be allowing an unrevised one for the exhibition match only, but official, sanctioned battles must pass my scanning. It may take some time, but it's worth it, believe me.

[Signmaker]

Well, you can go with the exhibition match if you desire, but I'll be checking that one. It's not whether the Truenaming can be salvaged or not, but there's times where a bit of bad math can screw up things. Also, the costs of magic items (did you know Necklaces of Natural Weapons, if those are the Savage Species ones), only affect one of the many natural weapons? And if you want to add more, you need to multiply the cost by the number of natural attacks you wish to add? That alone can make or break a monster.

Sure. PMing the sheet right now, minus potential dungeoneering gear which I've left aside a hefty amount of GP for.

[Signmaker]

It would figure, my monk is barely surviving: by running away.

My personal tribute to Giacomo and his Eversmoking bottle of wonders.

[T.G. Oskar]

It's a shame that one of the few fixes to the Giamonk is a Dragon Magazine material (otherwise, it would have aided him a lot)

Who would have thought that Monks of Wee Jas knew how to Use Magic Devices? (pun intended)

Also, did the rigorous scanning to Sign's character sheet. I still have to analyze the skills and magic items (plus a few bits and things), but otherwise it should be ready for real, non-exhibition action in a moment.

Anyone else wishes to get their sheet scanned? I'll probably limit to once per day, since painstakingly checking every single bit takes time. Probably one first-stage scan and one second-stage scan per day.

[Milskidasith]

I really want to try this, but I've played so little D&D I'd probably get myself curbstomped no matter what I tried.

I guess I'll just spectate and try to see what I can learn from the pros.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Quick Question: I realized one of the characters I'm making can do an infinite loop as part of another action. If I only used it so far, and didnt go into epic levels or anything, would that prevent me from being consumed by the hounds?

[Milskidasith]

I have a question: While you can't stack consumptive field (or else the hounds get you), can you have it running at full strength at the start of a battle?

[Doc Roc]

If you disclose it to your opponent, yes. Filling and persisting consumptive fields is starting to add a LOT of preconditions to a battle. I'm not comfortable with it.

[Saph]

Well, looks like Elanora's match with Alita is over. Like I said, I didn't kill her.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Well, looks like Elanora's match with Alita is over. Like I said, I didn't kill her.

Except in bed.

[Doc Roc]

Le petit mort?

[JeminiZero]

Well, looks like Elanora's match with Alita is over. Like I said, I didn't kill her.

No, but you did more brain damage to an already amnesic girl. I think thats even worse.

[Signmaker]

Could be worse. Saph could have added the sailor fuku and really made it look like a hentai..

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Le petit mort?

Shhhh now.

[Olo Demonsbane]

How is average hp done? I thought it was (for example, with a d4) 1st level 4, 2nd level 2, 3rd level 3, 4th level 2, etc., but TG just assured me that Talic said to go 4, then 2, 2, 2, 2.

[ex cathedra]

Average HP, I believe, is done as it is described on page 198 of the DMG. d4 classes gain 2 at even levels, and 3 at odd levels. 2 at each level is decidedly not average.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Does triggering an infinite loop before entering the arena count as triggering an infinite loop in the arena?

And as I asked before, does triggering it, but keeping it to below epic levels, result in getting consumed by the hounds?

[Signmaker]

It's official, my monk is a monkey.

[Doc Roc]

Triggering an infinite loop, even damped out, gets you eaten.

[ex cathedra]

So, what's the plan for page 50?

Edit : Best timing ever.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Triggering an infinite loop, even damped out, gets you eaten.

You said that we could trigger an infinite loop once, we just couldnt do it in the first arena or the final arena.

Couldnt I just do it after preparing spells for the day?

Please?

You wont let me have infinite spells per day...at infinite level...Olo is a sad panda...

[Xyk]

...Erhm...hello. How do I go about entering this fight club? Just make a character according to the first post and find an opponent?

[Olo Demonsbane]

Pretty much.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Pretty much.

[ex cathedra]

For the most part, yeah.

Pretty much.

[Milskidasith]

I want to try this out, but as of now the only game I've ever played is currently going on, and I'm level two. Would it be better if I waited until I got a better grasp of the rules to try this, or should I just try to make a level 13 character, (most likely) lose, and learn from that?

[T.G. Oskar]

Pretty much.


Pretty much.

Erm...Ctrl + V?

[ex cathedra]

I want to try this out, but as of now the only game I've ever played is currently going on, and I'm level two. Would it be better if I waited until I got a better grasp of the rules to try this, or should I just try to make a level 13 character, (most likely) lose, and learn from that?

Feel free to join, we'll even help you make a character. Be aware, though, that this is aiming for the upper echelons of character power.

[Xyk]

Hah. Okay, I understand. It is a shame that my computer broke and I only have access to Core+Cad, but I'll think of something.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Mil: Optimization help is provided, you can ask most anyone here by PM and they'll help you. I'll help, if you want.

[ex cathedra]

Ur-something, you mean? :smallwink:

I think this is that awkward realization stage where I remember that Cad isn't Complete Divine.

[Milskidasith]

At this point, I can only think of one thing; I'll ask for advice.

[Talic]

Xyk: If you like, PM me with your concept, and I can offer you some excerpted options to tweak here and there. I'm not TOO bad at optimizing.

[ex cathedra]

At this point, I can only think of one thing; I'll ask for advice.

Well, to start, it's best to find out what books you have access to, and go from there?

[Saph]

Mils, Xyk:

A good idea is to have a look at Tidesinger's tier listing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6562949&postcount=1136) once you've got a character and try and figure out what tier it is. Then try to find an opponent of a similar power level.

Most of the ToS builds currently floating around are Tier 1.5, Tier 2, or Tier 3. There are a few ones that are lower, but Tide's specifically tried to put enough restrictions in place so that the upper half of Tier 1 and up is off limits.

- Saph

[Milskidasith]

Well, at this point I have access to core and a website that has a good few non-core spells, PrCs, etc. I'm not sure about it's item selection, and for PrC's it only gives the first level or two of features, so it isn't great, but it's a start. I don't own any of the books yet (I would like to get some, but ATM I'm broke), so... yeah.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Well, at this point I have access to core and a website that has a good few non-core spells, PrCs, etc. I'm not sure about it's item selection, and for PrC's it only gives the first level or two of features, so it isn't great, but it's a start. I don't own any of the books yet (I would like to get some, but ATM I'm broke), so... yeah.

Try the SRD and Psionics.

[Talic]

Mils, Xyk:

A good idea is to have a look at Tidesinger's tier listing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6562949&postcount=1136) once you've got a character and try and figure out what tier it is. Then try to find an opponent of a similar power level.

Most of the ToS builds currently floating around are Tier 1.5, Tier 2, or Tier 3. There are a few ones that are lower, but Tide's specifically tried to put enough restrictions in place so that the upper half of Tier 1 and up is off limits.

- Saph
Or at least... "Exhibition only". LOL.

[JeminiZero]

And so I find my match in need of a DM ruling again. Sharnian's Kobold just dismissed Reilient sphere and tried to cast Dispel Magic on Alita. Alita on her part had readied an action and hit him dealing 18 damage and improved trip to make him fall prone.

Question is:
1) Does being tripped require a concentration check while casting?
2) If it does, how does that interact with the damage dealt? Is it:
a) 2 seperate concentration checks, one for damage (18 damage gives DC 28), and one for being tripped (violent motion at 10, 15 or 20). OR
b) 1 concentration check which has a slightly higher than normal DC than damage. (e.g. if just damage is 28, than damage with tripping would be 33).

[Saph]

No DM ruling needed on this one. Look up the Concentration skill on the SRD.

You make a separate check for each distraction. Tripping would count as violent motion.

[Doc Roc]

Olo: It won't get you eaten until after it goes off, was the intent.

So you'll win, then die, and get a commendation.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

So, Saph, do you think Blinkie stops blinking, or do we get the 50% chance ot catch Tina while she's on the same plane as us or what?

[Saph]

So, Saph, do you think Blinkie stops blinking, or do we get the 50% chance ot catch Tina while she's on the same plane as us or what?

I don't actually know how the ring works, it's some weird intelligent item, so I'm not sure who it responds to.

Roll the 50% chance, and if you're successful it won't matter.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

It was made with the core rules, and I think Tina's character sheet is around, so we might be able to figure out how it works...

Edit: Appearently an intelligent item can have the Deathwatch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathwatch.htm) spell at will.

I'm reminded of an old joke about power levels...

[Test Of Spite]

Rolled a new account to handle things in my.... executive capacity. I will be passing the password on to those who have elected to help in administration of the test of spite. Please only PM character sheets to this account for archival, as it will not be checked regularly.

[Olo Demonsbane]

Olo: It won't get you eaten until after it goes off, was the intent.

So you'll win, then die, and get a commendation.

Heh. If Im about to lose, Ill have an ace up my sleeve.

"Heightened (+Infinity) Flesh to Stone. Fortitude Save DC: Infinity"

EDIT: Tide...thats not allowed on these forums.

[Milskidasith]

Olo, it was allowed for the Arena, so I'm sure he can get permission for this (maybe).

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Heh. If Im about to lose, Ill have an ace up my sleeve.

"Heightened (+Infinity) Flesh to Stone. Fortitude Save DC: Infinity"

EDIT: Tide...thats not allowed on these forums.

Can you get spell slots that high?

[Olo Demonsbane]

I can. No action nessecary.

Yay I came up with something that hasnt been already thought of by everyone and his dog...