Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!

[Fax Celestis]

Oh, hey, another dysfunction. Apparently you can take iterative attacks with a gaze attack.

Gaze Attacks
While the medusa’s gaze is well known, gaze attacks can also charm, curse, or even kill. Gaze attacks not produced by a spell are supernatural.

Each character within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw (which can be a Fortitude or Will save) each round at the beginning of his turn.

An opponent can avert his eyes from the creature’s face, looking at the creature’s body, watching its shadow, or tracking the creature in a reflective surface. Each round, the opponent has a 50% chance of not having to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains concealment relative to the opponent. An opponent can shut his eyes, turn his back on the creature, or wear a blindfold. In these cases, the opponent does not need to make a saving throw. The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment relative to the opponent.

A creature with a gaze attack can actively attempt to use its gaze as an attack action. The creature simply chooses a target within range, and that opponent must attempt a saving throw. If the target has chosen to defend against the gaze as discussed above, the opponent gets a chance to avoid the saving throw (either 50% chance for averting eyes or 100% chance for shutting eyes). It is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before its own action and once during the creature’s action.

Looking at the creature’s image (such as in a mirror or as part of an illusion) does not subject the viewer to a gaze attack.

A creature is immune to its own gaze attack.

If visibility is limited (by dim lighting, a fog, or the like) so that it results in concealment, there is a percentage chance equal to the normal miss chance for that degree of concealment that a character won’t need to make a saving throw in a given round. This chance is not cumulative with the chance for averting your eyes, but is rolled separately.

Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks. Gaze attacks can affect ethereal opponents.

Characters using darkvision in complete darkness are affected by a gaze attack normally.

Unless specified otherwise, a creature with a gaze attack can control its gaze attack and “turn it off ” when so desired. Allies of a creature with a gaze attack might be affected. All the creature’s allies are considered to be averting their eyes from the creature with the gaze attack, and have a 50% chance to not need to make a saving throw against the gaze attack each round.

[Big Fau]

When a substitution level changes the Hit Die or
class skill list of the base class, the change applies
only to the specific substitution class level, not to
any other class levels.

I just brought up the Changeling Rogue RSL and I stumbled upon this. The Changeling Rogue adds one Knowledge skill as a class skill (but only for levels of the RSL), but changes the skill points/level to 10+Int (with the obligatory x4 at 1st level). Due to the RAW on RSLs in RoE, the Knowledge skill is only a class skill for those RSLs but the 10+Int skill points is permanent for the rest of your Rogue levels.

Races of the Dragon was the most recent printing of the RSL rules as far as I know, and it uses the same exact wording.

[Ksheep]

Come on, guys, we still have thirty-nine pages before we need a new thread.

Here's an adventure dysfunction: Shadows of the Last War, an Eberron adventure, has a color-based key system for a dungeon within the Mournland. One of the key colors is yellow, and you have to have a yellow key in order to complete the adventure. However, there are no yellow key-rods anywhere within the published adventure, just locks.

And no, you can't pick them.

Isn't that what Passwall is for?

[Fax Celestis]

Isn't that what Passwall is for?

Two things: one, it's a 2nd level adventure.

Two, no one prepares passwall.

[JaronK]

Well, since it was just brought up elsewhere, Zceryll is even more screwy by RAW than previously suspected: it references Summon Monster only for determining what monsters you can summon, not for duration or range or anything like that. As such, the monsters by RAW last until you stop binding Zceryll, and can be summoned anywhere. Have fun with your giant army!

JaronK

[Andezzar]

Oh, hey, another dysfunction. Apparently you can take iterative attacks with a gaze attack.

No, an Attack Action is the Standard Attack. You need a Full Attack Action to get iteratives and most other extra attacks.

[Fax Celestis]

No, an Attack Action is the Standard Attack. You need a Full Attack Action to get iteratives and most other extra attacks.

An attack action is not a standard action, since when you make an attack of opportunity you make an attack action. Note how you can do things that substitute for attacks (like trip, and apparently gaze).

[Andezzar]

An attack action is not a standard action, since when you make an attack of opportunity you make an attack action. Note how you can do things that substitute for attacks (like trip, and apparently gaze).

No an AoO is an attack but not an attack action. It is most definitely a non-action. There are only six types of actions: Standard, Full Round, Move, Free, Swift and Immediate.

Tripping and other combat options replace attacks, not attack actions:

You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack.

The notable exception is overrun:

You can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your move.

[Ksheep]

Two things: one, it's a 2nd level adventure.

Two, no one prepares passwall.

The party goes through the adventure at 2nd level, where they realize that there are doors they can't get through. They convince themselves that great treasures await them behind the doors. They make it their goal to get through. Years go by, adventuring far and wide, until one day they gain enough power to cast a spell to circumvent the defenses present. They return to the dungeon, excited by what they might find. The party gathers around the spell caster as he mutters a mystic incantation. Suddenly, the wall gives way and a passageway opens, revealing... a stash of 17 gold pieces and a rusty dagger.

[Story]

Would using Prestidigitation on a key to change its color work?

[Fax Celestis]

Would using Prestidigitation on a key to change its color work?

No, they're enchanted (and have a bonkers price for that level too).

[Curmudgeon]

No, an Attack Action is the Standard Attack.

This is a dysfunction. The term "attack action" is used, but never defined, in the D&D rules. It could be any of the following:

• a standard action attack
• a full attack action (the only option using the exact phrase)
• an attack of opportunity (despite it being "no action")
• a bonus attack, such as afforded by Improved Trip

[NeoPhoenix0]

Polymorph Any Object a rock -> Star -> Black Hole.

Dysfunctional Spell -> Metaphorical Black Hole -> Literal Black Hole.

[Lanson]

It's like the polymorph line is a black hole of dysfunction and PAO is it's singularity.

Edit: Hey, that might not be a bad thread title itself. "It's a black hole of dysfunction"

As if it's not broken enough, it gets even worse when you realize it qualifies for DMM: Chain Spell through the trickery domain for easy metamagic.

One Lock of Solar hair? Check.

Arbitrarily high caster level? Check.

Instant army of Solars WITHOUT invoking the wrath of the heavens? Priceless...

This is, of course, assuming the subject of PAO gets all the special abilities, qualities, EX's, spell likes, and SU's of the new creature.

[TuggyNE]

Dysfunctional Spell -> Metaphorical Black Hole -> Literal Black Hole.

The best part is, they're from the same kingdom and class, and are related and of equal or lesser intelligence, so that's a duration factor of 11, which leaves the spell Permanent.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Not sure how dysfunctional it is, but...

A master of many forms can wild shape into humanoids. What attributes do they get when they turn into a human? just 10s and 11s? Which ones are 10s and which ones are 11s? I don't think there is a standard attribute setup for humans.

If an Elf MoMF wild shapes into an Elf do his attributes suddenly become 13, 13, 10 regardless of his own scores despite the fact the he is already an elf?

The last one is more weird than dysfunctional, but for human, they don't have a standard array for them that I can find.

Edit:

The best part is, they're from the same kingdom and class, and are related and of equal or lesser intelligence, so that's a duration factor of 11, which leaves the spell Permanent.

Not that PAO needed a blow up the world button in addition to everything else it does.

[Karnith]

As if it's not broken enough, it gets even worse when you realize it qualifies for DMM: Chain Spell through the trickery domain for easy metamagic.

One Lock of Solar hair? Check.

Arbitrarily high caster level? Check.

Instant army of Solars WITHOUT invoking the wrath of the heavens? Priceless...

This is, of course, assuming the subject of PAO gets all the special abilities, qualities, EX's, spell likes, and SU's of the new creature.

This doesn't work for (at least) two reasons. First, PaO grants the target a limited amount of its new forms special abilities. It's based on Polymorph, and so it grants physical qualities (natural armor, natural weapons, movement speed, etc.) and extraordinary special attacks (of which a Solar has none). You explicitly do not get extraordinary special qualities, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. Second, PaO doesn't change Polymorph's HD limit (which caps at 15 HD), so you couldn't PaO something into a Solar anyway, barring Reserves of Strength-esque shenanigans.

[Talderas]

I was under the impression that it would be 300 scaled, winged rats flying around and clambering over each other

So pigeons?

[Chronos]

The other issue with a chained PAO is that it wouldn't turn one thing into many things; it would turn many things into many things. So even if you could turn a lock of angel hair into a solar, you'd still need one lock per solar.

[Andezzar]

How any locks of angel hair does a solar have?

[Karnith]

The other issue with a chained PAO is that it wouldn't turn one thing into many things; it would turn many things into many things. So even if you could turn a lock of angel hair into a solar, you'd still need one lock per solar.

I had assumed that the intent was to get a lock of hair, and then to change each individual strand of hair into a solar.

This is also, of course, pretending that turning an object into a creature with PaO doesn't cause a rules nightmare.

[Curmudgeon]

This is also, of course, pretending that turning an object into a creature with PaO doesn't cause a rules nightmare.

Well, it's pretty simple, actually: the description for Polymorph Any Object specifies no capability to create life except where duplicating a spell like Stone to Flesh, so creatures created from non-creatures are actually corpses.

No rules nightmare at all.

[Talderas]

Well, it's pretty simple, actually: the description for Polymorph Any Object specifies no capability to create life except where duplicating a spell like Stone to Flesh, so creatures created from non-creatures are actually corpses.

No rules nightmare at all.

PaO seems like a brilliant way to fuel animate dead.

[Coidzor]

PaO seems like a brilliant way to fuel animate dead.

Vegan Necromancy is the term for it, IIRC.

[NeoPhoenix0]

Vegan Necromancy is the term for it, IIRC.

Problem is the zombies and skeletons created this way have no hit dice, so they are already destroyed. The corpses have to obey the hit dice cap of the thing being polymorphed.

[Snowbluff]

The best part is, they're from the same kingdom and class, and are related and of equal or lesser intelligence, so that's a duration factor of 11, which leaves the spell Permanent.

I would stars are close enough to black holes to keep them permanent. It's a spell level sooner than using their momentum to Gate them in...

[The Viscount]

How any locks of angel hair does a solar have?

Excellent point. Let's say we're using eyelashes.

Not sure how dysfunctional it is, but...

A master of many forms can wild shape into humanoids. What attributes do they get when they turn into a human? just 10s and 11s? Which ones are 10s and which ones are 11s? I don't think there is a standard attribute setup for humans.

If an Elf MoMF wild shapes into an Elf do his attributes suddenly become 13, 13, 10 regardless of his own scores despite the fact the he is already an elf?

The last one is more weird than dysfunctional, but for human, they don't have a standard array for them that I can find.

Edit:


Not that PAO needed a blow up the world button in addition to everything else it does.

Humans don't have a standard array, though I suppose which are 10s and which are 11s matters almost never. As for the changing scores for an elf, yeah you just have to eat the penalty. MoMF is weird.

[Scizor]

Problem is the zombies and skeletons created this way have no hit dice, so they are already destroyed. The corpses have to obey the hit dice cap of the thing being polymorphed also.

While searching for where it says that the HD of the created undead has to be equal to that of the corpse (I haven't found that yet, though I found that yes, the polymorphed corpse has no HD, as long as the thing you are polymorphing from doesn't), I found a dysfunction: Animating Zombies and Skeletons doesn't work. You see, Skeleton and Zombie are templates applied to any corporeal creatures with skeletal systems. If I remember correctly, a corpse is defined as an object (Can someone back me up on/disprove this? SRD does not hold anything for me), not a creature. Thus corpses are ineligble for becoming skeletons and zombies.

[NeoPhoenix0]

While searching for where it says that the HD of the created undead has to be equal to that of the corpse (I haven't found that yet, though I found that yes, the polymorphed corpse has no HD, as long as the thing you are polymorphing from doesn't), I found a dysfunction: Animating Zombies and Skeletons doesn't work. You see, Skeleton and Zombie are templates applied to any corporeal creatures with skeletal systems. If I remember correctly, a corpse is defined as an object (Can someone back me up on/disprove this? SRD does not hold anything for me), not a creature. Thus corpses are ineligble for becoming skeletons and zombies.

The HD thing is in the Hit Dice section of both the zombie and skeleton templates. You take away all class levels to a minimum of one HD. Then turn them all into d12s. The corpse has no class levels to take away and no HD so the undead has 0d12 for HD.

[Namfuak]

While searching for where it says that the HD of the created undead has to be equal to that of the corpse (I haven't found that yet, though I found that yes, the polymorphed corpse has no HD, as long as the thing you are polymorphing from doesn't), I found a dysfunction: Animating Zombies and Skeletons doesn't work. You see, Skeleton and Zombie are templates applied to any corporeal creatures with skeletal systems. If I remember correctly, a corpse is defined as an object (Can someone back me up on/disprove this? SRD does not hold anything for me), not a creature. Thus corpses are ineligble for becoming skeletons and zombies.

Remember though, the effect of death is undefined. Things that die don't necessarily become corpses.

Double-checked, although it doesn't specify that the body becomes a corpse, it does call it a "dead body."