[Trait] Asperger's Syndrome

[RMS Oceanic]

I've heard of flaws you can have your character suffer from, so I came up with one that gives you benefits as well.

Asperger's Syndrome
AS is a mental condition, a variant of Autism. Those who have autism tend to see the world differently. While many people with Autism have difficulty communicating with others or social problems, this can be offset by remarkable talents of a savant level.

Autism is a trait that must be taken at the character's creation. It has the following effects on a character:
- +2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha. People with AS are capable of great feats of intellect, but are awkward in social situations and have a knack for saying the wrong thing.
- Alignment: Any nonchaotic. People with AS like routine, and are confounded by unexpected events and unpredictable people. As a result, they themselves don't tend to be compulsive or whimsical.
- A -2 penalty to bluff checks. People with AS do not understand that people do not know what they know. This belief that the person they are attempting to deceive already knows the truth makes them bad liars.
- A -2 penalty to sense motive checks. People with AS have a tendency to take what people say at face value, and believe what they are told. They also don't understand metaphors or implied meaning.
- A -2 penalty to diplomacy checks. People with AS tend to say what they think, and are usually oblivious to how other people might perceive it. This occasionally leads to trouble.
- For each point of Int bonus, a person with AS selects one craft(any), knowledge(any), profession(any) or perform(musical instrument or singing) skill. These skills are always considered class skills to the person with AS, regardless of which class they advance in.
- +2 bonus to all will saves. Despite his poor wisdom, a person with autism is usually stubborn and single-minded once he reaches a decision, and people find it difficult to change his mind, even through magic.

I haven't worked it out completely, and it's pretty much house-rule stuff. What do you think?

[Who]

As a person with Autism I've got to say that covers it very well. Kudos

[DarkLightDragon]

I'm also mildly autistic, and this seems okay. I'm definitely not lawful though.

[Tor the Fallen]

Would an autistic person like to adventure?

This flaw, like most flaws, is tailored to min-maxing casters. +4 to intelligence? Are ye mad?

[Yuki Akuma]

Because this hasn't been done half a dozen times on this very board or anything.

[DarkLightDragon]

Are you two trying to insult?

Yeah, I can assume things pretty quick.

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

As a represenation of Autism it's pretty good, even if it does represent the milder end of the spectrum. (I have two brothers on the autistic spectrum. One of them this flaw pretty much represents exactly - the bonus knowledge skills and stuff are an especially nice touch. The other one, if they were a D&D character, wouldn't even be able to speak Common).

However, it's not really comparable to the exist flaws (at least those in the SRD): most of those are purely negative in their effects. Remember that the point of taking flaws, other than for flavour, is that you get to a pick an extra feat at 1st level to make up for it, which is why flaws shouldn't confer benefits themselves. They are, in effect, negative feats: taking a flaw is like taking minus one feat. If anything, in purely crunch terms this is feels more like a template or a sub-race, especially with the bonuses/penalties to ability scores. As far as I know no flaw actually imposes penalties to ability scores themselves (although some impose penalties to ability score checks) and the only feats that allow you to permanently increase ability scores are class features of prestige classes and some epic feats.

[Tor the Fallen]

I don't need to try, buddy. jaykay.

From what I understand of those suffering from more severe cases of autism, they really, really don't like change. A steady, predictable, stable environment is a premium they strive for. As adventuring involves going places, meeting people, and a great deal of unpredictability, I think that autism, as a flaw, would need more 'flaws', esp. with that +4 to int, and all that knowledge skill goodies (that's like 2 or 3 feats!).

Reading the wikipedia entry on autism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#Key_behaviors, I'm suddenly struck by the number of PC adventurers that exhibit practically all those characteristics.

[edit]
Oh, right, and what you have here is more of a 'template' than a flaw.

[Reinboom]

As mentioned before, flaws don't naturally give bonuses because of their 'anti-feat' esque qualities.
Also, not all autistic people are strictly lawful in nature. I would consider myself to be neutral, for example. One of my nephues, also, is extremely chaotic in nature.

[DarkLightDragon]

Some of us are also very good at paying attention/focusing on things that we find interesting. Maybe, for a template (since this does seem like one), there could be bonuses on search, spot and listen under certain circumstances.

[Tor the Fallen]

Maybe have the person fascinated on a single 'focus', like trains or clockmaking or something. They get +2 craft, profession and knowledge checks involving anything with their focus. Get rid of the current bonuses to those skills. The autistic creature become fascinated if within 60' of their focus, and must make a DC X will save. X scales with the magnitude of the presence of their focus. Or something.

[XtheYeti]

The idea is good but it definitly should be a template. also the negitive should only affect dealing with people, because charisma is also how likeable you are, i have cousins with autism and the are adorible. i think that you should impose penalties on just bluff but not on diplomisy, because from my experience my cousins can change people's dispostion quite well.

[Closet_Skeleton]

This should be a trait since flaws have to be completly negative. A flaw should only give an advantage in those rare times when you want to be bad at something.

If you want it to be a flaw then remove the benifits and take skill focus as your bonus feat.

[Grey Paladin]

+4 to INT? riiiight.

Some autists (by far not the most) show intelligence higher then average by a significant amount, but this quality has nothing to do with their condition, the condition just seems to be more common in such people.

While a rather large -minority- of autists displays a larger degree of intelligence then the average person stat bonuses are there to represent the average within the group, and I am rather sure the average IQ of autists is not 140.

[Closet_Skeleton]

+4 to INT? riiiight.

Yeah, that's like giving dyslexic people -2 int because they can't memorise pointless letter chains.

[Gungnir]

I don't really like it, just because autism is such a variable thing. I have Asperger's Syndrome, one variety of it, and I'm best described as Chaotic Insane, as far as alignments go.

Although, it might make a fun template to apply to NPCs.

"WHY IS THIS KOBOLD BEATING MY WIZARD AT CHESS?!?!"

[RMS Oceanic]

Thanks for your comments, everyone. I myself have Aspergers, so this flaw was based off my own experiences, as well as what I've read. Yeah, it does read like a template.

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Thanks for your comments, everyone. I myself have Aspergers, so this flaw was based off my own experiences, as well as what I've read. Yeah, it does read like a template.

That explains why it fits the first brother I mentionned so well; he's also Asperger's.

[Lord Iames Osari]

As another person with Aspergers, I have to say this is a pretty good representation, but it is defintiely a trait and not a flaw.

I would also say that it might be best to have a range of traits to simulate the range of severity.

[Closet_Skeleton]

The problem with the +4 Int is that it DnD already has rules for very intelligent people. I'd suggest giving it an Intelligence prerequisite instead.

[Maldraugedhen]

With as powerful a stat bonus as that +4 is, this does strike me more as a Trait--although, it does not follow the Trait guideline of 'must provide penalty relevant to bonus'. This'd be a tough one to stat out for either Flaw or Trait--unless you cranked up the severity of the penalties and / or shrank the bonus down (for Flaw).

[knightsaline]

I too have aspergers syndrome. I think that one of the downsides for this flaw is that the character has to take medication in order to function properly. failure to take this medication results in a will penalty. I base that on the fact that I do stupid things unmedicated. medicated or not, aspergers sufferers are chaotic, while autism sufferers tend to be lawful or True neutral (its hard to judge someones alignment when they don't speak or are even in touch with the world).

if you need a medication for this flaw, call it scriblin. it negates the will penalty assossiated with unmedicated people with the [Autism] family of disorders. selling the medication is a chaotic and evil act. the medication must be prescribed by a telepath with 10 ranks in Profession (psychologist) or Knowledge (mental disorders).

I would love to see someone create an association which membership is limited to those with flaws from the [autism] family of flaws.

[ArmorArmadillo]

I feel like this flaw plays into a negative stereotype of people with autism: that they are hyper-intelligent savants.

Furthermore, a -2 to bluff or sense motive does not do justice to the kind of social interactivity issues that autism can cause.

The "Rainman" image of Autism does not represent the condition as a whole, and many, if not most, people with autism are not defined by great intelligence but rather only extreme social withdrawal or great difficulty in interacting with the outside world.

Furthermore, as a Flaw it does not work in game terms: because flaws grant you a free feat; they must be entirely negative, which means no bonus to intelligence, skills or will saves.

[Last_resort_33]

I take it that we're talking high functioning autism here... or Asperger's Syndrome. There is a vast gulf between high functioning autistics and low funtioning autistics

[Caelestion]

Quite apart from the fact that it's drawing out all the autistic/AS people here and the fact that it has been done to death before (thank Asmodeus for no magic talking lightning rail carriages this time around), it's too powerful and tries to cover too many bases.

Amend the Int bonus to +2, as they can be quite smart but also distinctly average.
Give -2 to Listen, Search and Spot as well, as they can be thunderingly unaware. Visual defects are often associated with autism too.
Leave out the Perform bonuses and amend the Craft/Knowledge/Profession checks to include Perform.
While I agree with the alignment listed (I am definitely lawful), being any other alignment might indicate other conditions mixed in with the autism.

[Serpentine]

Wow, there are rude people here.
I think I mostly agree with Caelestion, especially re. the reduced Int bonus. I also agree with others that it's much more a trait than a flaw or template. I also think it's quite reasonable to assume that this is based on milder cases, and that people with more severe cases are unlikely to be adventuring anyway, making different versions unneccessary. I don't know about the alignment restriction, but the reasoning given seems pretty sound.

[Caelestion]

I feel like this flaw plays into a negative stereotype of people with autism: that they are hyper-intelligent savants.

The only positive stereotypes of autisim that I can think of is that they're generally dedicated and often excellent in jobs focussing on their specific interests. Then again, this IS a disability, so what do you expect?

[paigeoliver]

That isn't a flaw, that is a template with about a +2 level adjust. A whole bunch of special abilities combined with a few drawbacks that can be completely ignored. If you introduced that as written every single wizard in your game (along with most rogues, fighters, and barbarians) would be suffer from autism.

That flaw is actually a lot better than most prestige classes and is way better than just about any player race. What that flaw will introduce is not people attempting to roleplay autistic characters, what it will introduce is wizards with 22 INT at first level (24 if you allow grey elves or any other +2 INT race), fighters and barbarians taking it because it doesn't hurt them at all but gives some nifty bonuses, and rogues taking it because +4 INT is enough to make a rogue forget about bluff, sense motive and diplomacy. Not to mention the fact that the extra 4 points of INT gives enough skill points to almost completely offset every negative effect on the skill checks via extra skill points (not just the specific -2 skills, even the effects of the lower wisdom and charisma).

[knightsaline]

I feel sorry for trying to make this flaw with a fascination with magical caravans that are able to talk *raises hand* it was me.

I still think that part of the flaw should be a dependency on medication. have any of you non autistics ever met someone with ADD unmedicated? they do stupid things without medication. I myself used to be the impulsive afraid of nothing child who wasted his pocket money on stupid things, but medication calmed me down. I don't think I would have passed my final exams without medication. but thats just me.

the thing about magical caravans that are able to talk, that was from some research I personally did. most aspies seem to have an affinity with the train system and its complex timetables. that and most aspies loved thomas the tank engine at some point in their life.

If I designed the flaw, it would have may feats based upon it, building up to a +10 on spellcraft checks regarding creating new spells/maneuvers/finding new vestiges/ chicken sacrifices/ whatever. I still think auties are mildly psionic.

[Demented]

I myself used to be the impulsive afraid of nothing child who wasted his pocket money on stupid things

Y'know, that alone doesn't sound so awkward to me. ...Impulsively spending all your money on gumballs so you can make a gumball pyramid in the middle of an intersection... that is awkward. And entirely fictional, of course.



As for the flaw... Such a flaw would be better as a generic or fictional mental disorder, with non-specific penalties. Not only does it toss out the need to make the idea socially "correct" (though there are still some practical limits), but you can ignore the desire for "realistic"* symptoms.

* Actually, 'characteristic' would be a more appropriate term. Since D20 is built arbitrarily, realism is in the eye of the beholder.