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2013-05-13, 01:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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2013-05-13, 01:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Maybe it's because I'm drowsy (late at night is the best time to come up with theories!), but I noticed something as I was looking over 885-886-887:
Right before the party sees Xykon, Roy says "no complaining."
And now they have nothing to complain about.
Yeah, that sounded better in my head.
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2013-05-13, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Fanclubs: Woooooooo! I'm invisible! ; )
SpoilerLepreachaun suit provider of the Thog fan club.
Cheif Tuna Maker of the Mr. Scruffy fan club
Go Salvatore!
1st edition = good edition.
Thanks to Sneak for the great avatar of my D&D character, Tre of the Wood!
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2013-05-13, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
I think some of the panels can only be in one person's personal vision. For example #4 has Tarquin looking lovingly on. I am sure Elan believes that everything can end happily (like that) with Tarquin coming round to the good side. I doubt anyone else does. Similarly #13 (love for Banjo) surely must only exist in Elan's head.
So you might tentatively assign #5, #8 and #12 to Haley (beating two of her demons and gold).
#6 and #9 must be Roy (and possibly #14 - reunion with Durkon?).
Possibly #2 (his death was not in vain) and #7 (people he actually liked or had fun with mourned his death) could even be Belkar's.
The others are more difficult and it may be impossible to assign them like that (and I could be wrong).
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2013-05-13, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Meh, I didn't like this strip. The end of the last one confirms it's just an illusion, so it feels kinda pointless.
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Won as Good Mayans on a science victory GMR 4. Won as Sweden on a science victory GMR 7. Won as Desert England on a concession victory GMR 8 Lost as Poland in GMR 3. Lost as Japan in GMR 5, Surrendered as Korea in GMR 10. Surrendered as Bad Maya in GMR 11, Lost as Shoshone in GMR 13.
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2013-05-13, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
That.....actually is plausible. Illusion took hold of the last thought that was in the persons mind. Reminds me of that star trek next gen episode remember me where the last though before entering a world where you were in control happened (which was everybody that dr. crusher knew disappearing). Perhaps that's exactly how the runes work.
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2013-05-13, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2011
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2013-05-13, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Holy crap! This reminds me of Inception! So maybe time flows differently in their dream/illusion than in reality... but I wonder, what will happen when or if they snap out of it?
Also, if it is really a shared sort of dream... and you die in your dream but can't wake up out of it, would you die? Maybe that happened to Belkar. Maybe when he died in the dream, he forgot to keep breathing in reality. Then, as we see... there's never really any good ending in there for Belkar. Yes, it could be guilt like he wished it was dead and like this. Or maybe it could also be he can no longer contribute for one reason or the other.
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2013-05-13, 01:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
This is simply the best webcomic of all time.
It's one of the best fantasy stories of all time.
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2013-05-13, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Remember he thinks he should be dead, so it fits.
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2013-05-13, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Probably because it would confuse the narrative, we've already seen Belkar is definitely affected but if Belkar was dead in some scenes, alive in others it would lead to a lot of people asking what was going on.
The first thing I thought is this felt like a filler strip, surely one double length comic is enough to explain they've been held by this trap. When it occurred this could be Elan's happy ending I started to worry about exactly what could give this strip enough significance to be included in the main arc?
Can't be good.
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2013-05-13, 01:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Let's see, I wonder if it's possible to pick out which character is having which fantasy. The weird thing is, it looks like Belkar's isn't being shown.
First: Roy. He's smugly triumphant here.
Second: Roy. Durkon is back and Belkar is dead.
Third: Roy. Again, he's the main participant.
Fourth: Elan. One big semi-happy family.
Fifth: Haley. Tsukiko going down, Resistance winning, Thanh.
Sixth: Roy. Reconciled with dad.
Seventh: Roy. Rejoicing over Belkar's demise.
Eighth: Haley. Ian is approving, Bozzok is defeated.
Ninth: Roy. Giant statue of him (man, he really does crave fame and recognition, doesn't he??), Julia ticked off.
Tenth: Uncertain.
Eleventh: Elan. The hopeless romantic.
Twelfth: Haley. Gold, gold, gold!!!!
Thirteenth: Elan. Who else with puppets?
Fourteenth: Roy. Durkon's alive and they're partying.
Fifteenth: Elan. Woooooo! I'm riding a dinosaur!!!
Sixteenth: Haley? Involves Azure City or Sapphire Guard in some way.
Seventeenth: Who the heck???? MitD and O-Chul? What's going on here???
Eighteenth: Elan. Elan with a lollipop.
Nineteenth on: Indistinguishable. I think V is in #19, but beyond that it's too small to see. The others are probably just blank.
Who is imagining the MitD hanging around with O-Chul????Last edited by Bulldog Psion; 2013-05-13 at 01:30 AM.
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2013-05-13, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Forest Grove, Oregon
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
I wonder how the fantasy explains Durkon not being a vampire. I guess Belkar was lying just as Roy had suspected?
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2013-05-13, 01:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
It seems to me that this is only Elan's happy ending version (maybe the spell picks up the dream from where Roy's ended?)
There are numerous clues in there to nail that down:
- the amulet/phylactery has generic 'evil eyes' on it.
- they throw it in a volcano (bardic LotR reference)
- Roy and Haley's happy endings through Elan's eyes match a pattern almost identically: they make peace with their fathers, defeat all the side-quest villains and gain wealth (Haley) and Glory (Roy)- the archetypical DnD heroes' motivations.
- On the other hand, V is, in almost every panel, a supporting character. Maybe Elan does not know him so good as to be able to define a 'true happy ending' for him, or maybe they don't share such a close bond as with the others.
Also, there is plenty of Elan-specific dream-stuff in there: Banjo finds himself a girlfriend, the airship Elan used to rescue Haley, and mayyyybe, near the center of the spiral, we get a glimpse of Elanasaurus Rex.
EDIT:
Also in the previous strip Elan vomited a little, maybe because he got dizzy by the swirling?Last edited by Karoug; 2013-05-13 at 01:38 AM.
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2013-05-13, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Several of them seem to be a specific person's fantasy - Elan's are probably the most recognizable because of the super quick and easy resolutions. Roy's start off dealing with Xykon, and Haley's seem to be mostly about revenging herself on her enemies. There are some that are less identifiable, given the assumption that the panels correspond to a specific person's personal illusion or their input into the collective illusion, unclear precisely how it's working.
The one in which Roy is smiling an waving at his now winged father I'm not sure about. Roy's opinion of him is so low I wouldn't expect him to come up with that even in a fantasy. It seems more like Elan's thing, but I don't know how much Elan even knows about Roy's parental issues.
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2013-05-13, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Or Malack had a change of heart and 'fixed' him (via Resurrection?). After all, part of the shared dream is Tarquin being buddy buddy again with Elan.
The more I think about it, the more Belkar going along with being dead because of feeling he should be dead makes sense.Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2013-05-13, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
No, there are difficulties with my theory. One thought I had was this was all Elan's imagination - he is the one who will get the "happy ending" according to the Oracle. However #9 seems it has to come purely from Roy's mind. Only he (it seems to me) would want his sister to see a huge statue of him and be upset by it (she's frowning in the picture). I can't see Elan conceiving of that sort of animus.
And of course #13 must be from Elan's mind. No-one else could think "but what happens to Banjo".
But maybe others are right and this is somehow a shared illusion, experienced by everyone, but with elements contributed by each of the characters. I can't recall a D&D spell that would do it (but maybe there is). Not that that matters. Any reasonably high level illusionist will have almost certainly researched a whole bunch of interesting spells of their own. We know that V and D both do this.
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2013-05-13, 01:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- empty space
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2013-05-13, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
So...terrified.
If this is Elan's happy ending...he could die now, and the prophecy would be fulfilled.
"Will this story have a happy ending?"
"Yes for you at least."
Elan would die happy, filling out all of his dreams, and doing everything he wanted. Not to mention this strip would be so much sadder if somehow he couldn't make it out of the illusion.
Elan you can't just stand around waiting for that prophecy. You have to out and make it happen.
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2013-05-13, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-05-13, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
It's not pointless at all. From a character persepctive at least. It is showing what some of the deepest most dreams of the characters are.
And in in a The Dog That Didn't Bark sort of way, it the complete lack of anything Belkar related (outside of a spiffy monument) also says volumes.
If the characters remember this shared dream at all, it might lead to ramifications down the road as well.Last edited by Porthos; 2013-05-13 at 01:38 AM.
Concluded: The Stick Awards II: Second Edition
Ongoing: OOTS by Page Count
Coming Soon: OOTS by Final Post Count II: The Post Counts Always Chart Twice
Coming Later: The Stick Awards III: The Search for More Votes
__________________________
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style - Jhereg Proverb
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2013-05-13, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Well, it seems this is the Elan's happy ending AND Belkar's death both.
Everyone wants to see Belkar dead, and he does not care what other people say about him. That's why he appears dead in illusion. In reality, I think he will not be dead after all, at least till the end of the story.
And maybe they will all be teleporting to the nearest city after illusion ends.Feel, don't think. Use your instincts.
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2013-05-13, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
I'm afraid I see it in Roy's character to feel remorseful after Belkar's death (rightly or wrongly). At least to have doubts such as "was he really changing there towards the end?". I can't see him imagining himself just blowing off the funeral. Especially if Belkar died saving Durkon. Now I can see Belkar imagining it that way.
For #3 I also rather liked the "lava"=bardic idea. Elan is also unreasonably pleased with himself in that panel. But I didn't think it was certain enough to offer.
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2013-05-13, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
I'm guessing that this doesn't include Belkar's vision, so, my gut feeling is (clockwise):
All (or just Haley due to be holding the goblin)
Elan maybe not serious about durkon's demise)
Roy (becase is in the one that has to destroy Xykon)
Elan (obvious)
Haley (she is charging)
Roy (obvious)
Elan (the only one that has some sympathytowards belkar)
Haley (Thief's guild)
Roy (obvious)
All (or just Elan is he is being naive enough to think the casters can handle the gates, also, durkon still alive)
All (or just roy?)
Haley (duh)
Elan (duh)
Roy
Elan
Haley (again with the paladins)
Elan (or Haley)
Elan
.....
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2013-05-13, 01:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Guys, you can stop freaking out about this being Elan's prophecy. War and XPs commentary says his prophecy is a word from the Giant to the readers that when the entire story is over Elan will have a happy ending, and that while things might get scary for a while they will work out in the end.
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2013-05-13, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Awesome! Call-backs, fulfilments, Roy sharing a drink with Durkon (sigh), even if its fake, quite nice...
And to me, this looks like a combined dream right now (or possibly just Elan's...)
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2013-05-13, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
Who cares?
Maybe this book is running long? Perhaps this book will be the end of the entire OOTS story, so the book will be extra long to accommodate it? Maybe this is the end of the book? Perhaps Rich was just flexing his artistic muscle a little? Maybe he just wanted to do something fun?
Not everything has to advance the plot, even if the book is running long.
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2013-05-13, 01:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
It seems unlikely that Belkar would imagine Mr. Scruffy being dead, though. And I really, really think that Roy would be elated at Belkar's death, and not feel the slightest bit remorseful. Especially since his fantasy includes Belkar being proved a liar by Durkon showing up alive.
Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2013-05-13, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
There are things that don't advance the plot that are not padding. And I'd rather see the comic driven by the needs of the story instead of the constraints of publishing format.
Two things I haven't seen pointed out:
1) The upper right-hand corner appears to be outside the "swirly eye" effect. If the rest of the strip is indeed one big swirly eye, the tone makes it look like Roy's skin.
2) I think we see Roy's attitude toward Belkar in the graveside scene. While Haley, Elan, and Durkon mourn, Roy is walking away, making what looks like a flippant gesture.
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2013-05-13, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread
This looks like it was inspired by of "For the Man who has everything"; a Superman comic about a plant which feeds the victim a life-like illusion of the victim's greatest desires and feeds off the victim's lifeforce. Meanwhile, one of Superman's villains is attacking Batman, Wonder Woman, and Robin. Although the dream takes a dark turn, for a while, it is a dream come true, in which Krypton was never destroyed. The villain is beaten when the plant is tossed back on him, and we get to see what he wants: universal conquest.
They made that into a Justice League Unlimited episode.
Makes me wonder if we will see Xykon and Redcloak's versions of their happy endings too.
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_the...Has_Everything