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2021-11-06, 09:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
I understand that, it was just my best attempt to keep that beat. Though frankly, I'd prefer to cut it altogether. They're already aliens here to save humanity from monsters we can't possibly fight ourselves. They don't need to also be responsible for basic (or complicated!) human inventions. They're plenty cool. Just have Fastos be their tech and show him repairing it and improving it...
Last edited by ecarden; 2021-11-06 at 12:44 PM.
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2021-11-06, 10:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
I hear you, and agreed.
Between the large cast and the highly convoluted background, I feel like introducing this slice of the comics would have worked better in a Disney+ series.
A couple of people have already commented how long the movie is, and yet it still doesn’t seem to have enough space to do full justice to all of its themes and characters. Spreading that out over half a dozen episodes would have given them at least twice the overall runtime, and that might have given them more opportunity to balance action, backstory and character growth in each episode.
Presumably that would have been far more expensive, given some of the names involved, but it would have almost certainly given a deeper and better-developed product. With everything I’m reading, both here and elsewhere, it just sounds too jumbled to really work for most people.
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2021-11-06, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
It would certainly have given some of the relationships more time to breathe so some of the tragedy landed more. Also, it might have allowed some human characters who actually did things besides being mind controlled, or cheering the eternals victories, or being adorable little pets/love interests.
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2021-11-06, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Humans are definitely special in Marvel.
It's an interesting question.
Spoiler: ArishemIt might be that, just like humanity impressed Ajak by stopping Thanos, the Eternals impressed Arishem by stopping Tiamut. He probably saw the Emergence as inevitable, until they prevented it, which forced him to revise all his calculations. I view it kind of like completing the Crucible in Mass Effect 3 or Neo reaching the Source in the Matrix - it's an event of such technological achievement that it forces the Super AI to throw out its old programming and be open to new ideas.
I do!
SpoilerIt's worth pointing out exactly how many of Marvel's heroes are concentrated not just in the US, but in NYC specifically. Stan and Steve wrote what they knew
This film meanwhile jumped all over, from the UK to Australia to South Dakota to wherever the hell Tiamut was emerging. Sometimes "Avengers Assemble" is just not feasible for every threat, even a global one.
I seem to remember they used to, come to think of it.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-11-06, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
That might work for the
Spoiler: reasoningWhy he didn't grab everything or shut it down when the beacon was broken. But why only grab the three left on earth. Sprite I give a pass to as he very nature was changed, but the others, they're just on the space ship he gave them. Distance appears to be totally irrelevant to him, why isn't he grabbing them?
Right, butSpoiler: the problem.I agree, that none of our heroes (or governments! Or anyone!) apparently lives in the area where the emergence is happening and apparently, despite them being very visible and making almost no effort to hide (such that a child recognizes Icarus from television) somehow no one ever approaches them, but as the giant monster starts ripping its way out of the earth in the area that ought to be the epicenter of world-wide earthquakes...no one notices and shows up?
No War Machine? No Wakandans? No whatever has replaced SHIELD (SWORD? Unclear if that still exists after Wandavision)? They probably couldn't do anything as no one but the Eternals could, but their absence is pretty hard to buy from a narrative standpoint. They definitely ought to be able to track that there's a problem and where it appears to be coming from and at least show up. I understand they didn't want to shell out a bunch of money for a glorified cameo, especially in a movie that's already very long and very full, but it bugs me.
I mean, in the end I think it boils down to, I don't really like the white savior trope even if you sub in aliens for white people.
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2021-11-06, 10:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
There's honestly a lot of potential explanations, but they al boil down to "How was Arishem programmed?" Which is the driving question behind explaining any seemingly odd super-AI behavior.
For example:
Spoiler- Can he only watch/manifest at Earth until the Tiamut situation is fully resolved?
- Does he care mostly about Sersi (because Prime Eternal / instigator) and just happened to grab the other two who were in the vicinity with her, and doesn't actually care about the ones in space?
- Does he care about the ones in space but can't locate them because space is big?
- Is he looking into the future and giving the others a chance to stop whatever he's about to do, as another test?
- Was he getting highly specific orders from an even higher being to "grab all the Eternals remaining on Earth for punishment" and executed those to the letter?
I could go on but again, the bold question sums it up.
Well,Spoilerthe post credits scene has ONE of them - or at least someone adjacent to them - being approached.
But the rest, again, were constantly on the move so I don't see how they could have been. Except maybe by Wong/Strange who appear to be busy.
We also don't know exactly when these events occurred, save "after Endgame."
Speaking of Ikaris on TV:
SpoilerSuperman existing in the MCU (as a fictional character) was a pretty funny reveal. Cap likely read those comics then.
*snipped*Last edited by Psyren; 2021-11-06 at 11:34 AM.
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-11-06, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Maybe I missed something, or its comics canon, but I'm not sure where you're getting Arishem is programmed or a super-AI.
quote snipped above, so I snip below
We're drifting towards a topic that's going to cause moderator issues, so I'll mostly leave it at my initial comment and only add on that 'as a human' I don't find the 'humans are helpless little creatures which need to be protected' to be a terribly interesting storyline.Last edited by ecarden; 2021-11-06 at 11:55 AM.
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2021-11-06, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Point, redacted.
They aren't "AI" as we might consider something like Jarvis. But they are following a rigid set of programming (save the ones that go rogue like Ego) so I find it useful shorthand.
SpoilerLocate suitable planet, seed planet with baby Celestial, use Eternals and Deviants to guide evolution of local life, harvest planet once civilization reaches X level of energy development, repeat.
A good analogy would be the Titans from World of Warcraft, right down to the seed stuff.
If you're not a fan of the "ancient aliens" hypothesis, well, you're in for a bumpy ride because Jack Kirby most definitely was, and pretty much the entire MCU is based on it.Last edited by Psyren; 2021-11-06 at 11:38 AM.
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2021-11-06, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Spoiler: My Thoughts On EternalsWell first off. I enjoy the movie Eternals. What I like about Eternals is that the movie was very diverse and inclusive which includes a deaf superhero and an LGBT superhero. There wasn't anything that I dislike about this movie. The movie was wonderful. Great storyline and I really can't wait for a sequel. I'll give Eternals a perfect 10 out of 10 stars.It's time to get my Magikarp on!
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2021-11-06, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Warning: This posting may contain wit, wisdom, pathos, irony, satire, sarcasm and puns. And traces of nut.
"The main skill of a good ruler seems to be not preventing the conflagrations but rather keeping them contained enough they rate more as campfires." Rogar Demonblud
"Hold on just a d*** second. UK has spam callers that try to get you to buy conservatories?!? Even y'alls spammers are higher class than ours!" Peelee
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2021-11-06, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
I guess its not clear to me that's all they do? I mean, from the perspective of the anthill outside my door, I probably seem very rigidly programmed. I walk past on a fairly set schedule and always in the same basic pattern, but that's an accident of perspective, not anything else.
Yeah...if the MCU continues in that direction I'm likely to either be a lot more selective in which of the MCU films I go to, or just cut back altogether as I really dislike that trope and the further away from the person on the ground the less I care.
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2021-11-06, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-11-06, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
I guess I view that argument as the same as
Spoiler: spoilerthe fact that billions of people have reproduced is proof we're all just following programming (which is arguably true at a very high level).
And that's without getting into Ego, though I'm unclear on whether or not Ego is actually intended to a Celestial like these or is something else that also goes by the name of Celestial.Last edited by ecarden; 2021-11-06 at 12:19 PM.
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2021-11-06, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
I would assume the Eternals just took the forms of random human adults to better fit in with the population, hence why they are so racially diverse. IMO sprite's age isn't really that much of an outlier as mid-teens would be considered an adult for most of human history, and the rest of them range from late 20s to mid fifties. Honestly, the weirdest part for me is that none of them are in their late teens / early twenties, their physical peaks and what most of the population consisted of throughout history before modern medicine.
I assume Ego will just be a "our concept drifted over the years between the films, don't think about it too hard." Which is really kind of a shame, because I think there is still an interesting story to tell about why a Celestial emerged alone and came to the conclusion that he was the only one in the universe.
They are pretty much exactly Titans from Warcraft. Even down to the leaving their seeded planets in the care of super powerful constructs who take the form of misspelled figures from human mythology.
I wonder if that is just a coincidence of if someone in the MCU actively decided to go in the WoW direction.Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
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2021-11-06, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-11-06, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Based on what we see, I don't think so.
Spoiler: spoilerOr at least, their forms are given to them by Arishem as best I could tell. He may have chosen randomly. I assume (though the bit with a bunch of half-constructed Circe's pushes against this) that eternals on other worlds look like the local inhabitants, so just picking a random set of local appearances would be reasonable.
Sprite's age is...unclear. The actress is 16 now and the filming was over the last two years, so I assume they were going for 13-15? Which honestly makes the 'no one will treat me seriously' thing a bit of an anachronism, especially when ported back millennia ago. Personally I wished they'd just gone with the 'she can't stay places nearly as long as the others as her unaging nature is a lot more obvious' rather than inject the moderately squicky (to my modern sensibility) of her crush on Icarus.
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2021-11-06, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Originally Posted by ecarden
Yeah...if the MCU continues in that direction I'm likely to either be a lot more selective in which of the MCU films I go to, or just cut back altogether as I really dislike that trope and the further away from the person on the ground the less I care.mutantsInhumans in their version of the MCU.
It was poorly done and very messy, which is probably why it’s never been referenced again. It would be unfortunate for the main MCU to get too deeply into that.
Originally Posted by ecarden
Spoiler: SpriteSprite's age is...unclear. The actress is 16 now and the filming was over the last two years, so I assume they were going for 13-15? Which honestly makes the 'no one will treat me seriously' thing a bit of an anachronism, especially when ported back millennia ago.SpoilerSprite would be treated even less seriously in tribes dominated by Neolithic warriors, so she remains an extremely odd choice in terms of design. Unless there’s something in her original source genome that made her an ideal candidate, I’m just not seeing the rationale.
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2021-11-06, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Yeah, but the idea of Celestials being born from planets doesn't.
Looking it up, it seems that it originally comes from the Earth-X books in the 90s and was then brought into the main marvel universe in the early 2010s, about the same time the idea started being explored in WoW.Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
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2021-11-06, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Spoiler: I was being too delicateHer concern seemed to be that no one would treat her like an adult/potential romantic partner, which doesn't seem historically accurate. More generally, as far as I could tell, there weren't original source genomes, they seem to be artificially constructed at the World Forge prior to the evolution of homo sapiens.Last edited by ecarden; 2021-11-06 at 01:26 PM.
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2021-11-06, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Okay, gotcha.
As far as source genomes, my bad. But it does add one more layer of confusion to what sounds like a highly muddled film.
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2021-11-06, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Not really. The Ancient Aliens build civilization predated Kirby and was not part of Marvel but Kirby used it to launch his own ideas. For example he copyrighted a 4 page tv script which was all about Judgement by the Gods, and it was in part a WW2 metaphor. Stuff with Judgement, Armageddon, The Holocaust, What We Owe Each Other, Mass Media, etc.
Then Kirby was re hired back to Marvel and was promised he got to do freedom to do his own thing. And he did so for the first half of the 19 issues Eternals. The goal was not to connect The Celestials, The Deviants, The Eternals, Humans, to mainline 616 Marvel. But Marvel said midway through Vol 1 your sales are not good enough so you better start doing crossovers with our IP. Thus we get Robot Hulk, and the Eternals Vol 1 was canceled after 19 issues.
So Kirby Eternals with those 19 issues are not like The Chariots of the Gods book (which is not Marvel but launched the Ancient Aliens craze with all its creepy stuff I will not talk about due to board rules ), and likewise almost all of The Eternals and Celestials lore came after Kirby in the 1980s and was established by different authors in non eternal books such as “What If?” Issues 23 to 30. It was those issues that connected The Eternals to all these Earlier Concepts including some of the Stan Lee alien races that are part of the “Sol” Solar System which includes Earth.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia the EternalsStupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-11-06, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
To be fair, a ton of other Marvel aliens look pretty human too - Asgardians, Shi'ar, Kree, D'bari, whatever Gamora's people and the Collector's people and the Grandmaster's people are etc. Sure some of them get shades/tints that we don't get but the structure is still there.
The Earth-X books were still Marvel, just not 616. So still a roughly decade leg up on WoW.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-11-06, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Seeing the discussion here and everywhere, it seems like this is a pretty polarizing movie. I am not sure whether this is worth a watch.
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2021-11-06, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Apparently Zhao has cited Zack Snyder as a major influence for her approach to Eternals.
That’s not a positive for me, but perhaps those who enjoyed the movie can look forward to a Zhao Cut in the next couple of years. With plenty of slo-mo and chanting.
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2021-11-06, 10:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Well, not sure since I am not feeling "Grand Galactic Space Opera that would be compared to 40K's War in Heaven" from the trailers.
I mean what's not to like about intergalactic cosmic demihuman battle across the millenium.Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
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2021-11-06, 11:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
What bothered me is...the Asgardians didn't notice the deviants? Heimdall and younger Odin never noticed all this nonsense going on? Odin's father Bor never noticed this nonsense? Asgard in Hela's day had to have noticed there was a Celestial embedded in Midgard.
Sure, Thor himself was kind of screwing around off planet in this movie, but you'd think he might've noticed some of the nonsense going on in the last thousand years or so.
...ALSO! The Sorcerer Supreme didn't notice any of these shenanigans going on? Dr. Strange can teleport and had to have noticed all this crap.
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2021-11-07, 03:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-11-07, 04:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-11-07, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Dr. Strange isn’t even the only sorcerer it town, either. If he was too busy, there are multiple sanctums around the globe, and more sorcerers than just him and Wong, as we saw in Endgame.
That said I’m going to add to the list in a different direction: Ego. Being a Celestial, how did either he not notice the Eternals, or (if he’s a different faction of Celestial) how did they not notice him?
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2021-11-07, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Eternals, the movie that doesn't end
Are there? Yes there were plenty during Endgame, but Morbo seems like he was setting out to drastically reduce that number.
Also, it's unlikely there were any Sanctums set up whereSpoilerTiamut was emerging. They may not even have noticed what was occurring in time.
Why would they have noticed him? He's not tied to Arishem or Tiamut. And even if they did, he's not a Deviant.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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